This is topic becoming common practice? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-27-2001, 04:59 PM:
Within the various discussion forums I frequent, I have begun to notice more people complaining about movie theaters shutting down the projector before the credits end. I read of one account regarding the new Kevin Smith film 'Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back' Some audience members (who had stayed through the credits for the short in-joke at the tail end of the credits) complained when the projector was shut down before the snippet and were told by the management "Credits are not part of the movie"
Is it suddenly becoming common practice to shut down the presentation before the very end? (which i consider to be the rating band)
It's a very disturbing thought. Is there anything that can be done? can filmmakers revolt and refuse to have their films shown there?
-sean(these reports came from a forum on www.viewaskew.com)
Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-27-2001, 07:17 PM:
>>...and were told by the management "Credits are not part of the movie"<<If I were a credited crew member in that audience with my family or friends, I would have raised such a stink with both the chain and the distributor that that location wouldnt be able show another major studio film again!!!
Find out who the manager is and the chain that runs that particular location, and drop a line to Miramax (and the other distribs as well as the home office of the circuit this 
-head works for) stating exactly what is going on there and I bet you soon see the practice end.
This is one of the biggest peeves of mine... 
-Aaron
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-27-2001, 08:07 PM:
I totally agree. If no one is in the theatre, I may shut off the film during the credits for some reason that I cannot think of off the top of my head, but they most definitely ARE part of the movie. I cannot stand when the dowser closes before the ratings strip. If I find that a cue was accidentaly placed to early, I will reposition it so that the show does not end until the ratings band is on screen.And besides, I'm one of the crazy ones who likes to stay for the credits. 
Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 09-27-2001, 08:07 PM:
In my ratings system (see my site under the presentation quality reviews subpages), I sometimes count off one or two points if I stay to see the credits, or something at the end of them, and the projector is shut off before they're finished. It seems that nothing is really gained by shutting off before the credits are done, since the film must be run on through anyway, right?
------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site
Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 09-27-2001, 09:37 PM:
The fuuniest thing that happen to me was at Houston Fine Arts Theatre,they had a noise problem in the sound, when I got there theatre was pack to the hilt !! When the house lights came up, & the credits was rolling I notice no one got up to leave, now the credit was probably as long as the movie, (really 10 mins worth) after noticing this I said to the projectionist "wow I can't believe no one is leaving, I never saw this happen before" the projectionist looked at me very strange & said, "don't you know, these are the people who made this picture, they are looking for their names".....I just said "OH" !!
Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 09-28-2001, 01:49 AM:
During the last Anime Festival screenings at the Carpenter Center here in Long Beach, the theater ushers were forcing people to vacate their seats as soon as the credits began. I got into it with one of them when they told me to leave. My wanting to listen to the music wasn't acceptable--credits mean the movie's over and to GET OUT!Wonderful staff training by the Carpenter Center house manager, ey???
Paul
Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-28-2001, 04:39 AM:
You should ask these people what the hell they're doing working at a movie theater.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-28-2001, 11:24 AM:
So what do you do when a customer accidentaly slips in early, as the credits are showing and before the auditorium has been cleaned. You know they're not from the movie that just showed, but are waiting for the next. We always politely ask them to wait outside until we're done cleaning.
Posted by Colin Wiseley (Member # 247) on 09-28-2001, 12:09 PM:
I went to see Shrek and Planet of the Apes this summer at the Starlite drive-in in Christiansburg VA. Both times, they cut the projector off before the credits started to roll. It seemed kind of jarring just to have it cut off like that. It made the projectionist in me jump, thinking that something was wrong.I guess they do it to get people to leave so they can bring in the cars for the next show, but I've actually grown to appreciate the credits and I usually watch them even when I rent something.
------------------
Colin Wiseley
Lyric Theatre
Blacksburg, VA
www.thelyric.com
Posted by Joe Smith (Member # 190) on 09-28-2001, 06:01 PM:
At Hulls Drive-In near Lexington, Va., we get a few complaints occasionally when we bring up the fields lights during the credits and make voice announcements; such as a reminder to put the speaker back on the pole before driving away, or safety announcements such as watching for kids running between cars. Especially during the intermission between shows. Didn't get any complaints like that last year, but received several this year.We do not shut off the picture until the credits have ended though.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-29-2001, 12:13 PM:
Speaking of shutting off the credits early....The person who built The Deep End this week (which was a used print) either did not put the correct cue on, or did not remove the old cues. When the lights were supposed to come up at the credits, the dowser closed! A light cue is a center cue (FM-35), but there was a peice of cue tape wrapped around the whole film, so an outboard cue was picked up, which is the show end cue. I fixed it. Just thought I'd share that.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 09-29-2001, 12:58 PM:
Ken, a light cue is a center cue in YOUR theater. There is no industry standard for automation cueing. This is why theaters should always remove whatever cues they placed on the film during breakdown.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 09-29-2001, 01:49 PM:
Brad,I know this! That is why I always remove old cues. I have never seen any of the operators at my theatre wrap the cue around the film, which is why I think it was probably left on from the last theatre. (I implied that a light cue is a center cue "at my theare." Sorry for the confusion.)
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-29-2001, 04:04 PM:
At cinesphere god help any staff member I see go into the theatre to clean before the credits finish and the lights come up
For any IMAX show the lights stay at zero unitl the credits end and since it is anounced at the beginning of the show this is a policy of the theatre and in most cases in the contract for the print you trip it is your problem
On the 35mm we bring the aisle lights up to 1/2 and the hous up to about 10% for the credits
like the song says it isn't over till the fat lady sings
Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 09-29-2001, 08:24 PM:
That's interesting, because the ONE time I went to the Esquire IMAX theatre in Sacramento to see "Fantasia 2000", not only did the lights come up right when the end credits started (which still had stuff going on onscreen) but some jerk turned on a MICROPHONE and said "Thank you for coming, please exit to the left side"!!! Funny thing was that nobody else there could've been in more of a hurry to leave than me, since I had to get to work 30 minutes away, yet I still had time to watch all the credits but not enough time to find someone to complain to. I haven't been back there since so I don't know if they usually do that.
Posted by Sean Weitzel (Member # 244) on 09-30-2001, 02:56 AM:
Jesse's got a point. I cannot remember ever seeing a single IMAX presentation at any theater that kept the lights down and or allowed people to stay during the credits. The PA announcement is common as well. Very frustrating.
Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-30-2001, 01:12 PM:
"Becoming common practice"? I came across this problem three times in less than a month.The first time was for All About My Mother at the Montgomery Cinema arthouse in Rocky Hill NJ (north of Princeton). This was in March 2000 on the Saturday before the movie won the foreign-language Oscar. All About My Mother has a long, slow end-credits crawl. The booth took it upon itself to shut the show down before the end. Not only that, there were no trailers before the feature and the sound cut out 3 times in the middle. The theater did have room for rolling stock adverts though. I have not been back to that theater since.
After the Oscar win the Regal in East Windsor NJ picked up All About My Mother for the following weekend. I go there and -- sure enough -- the booth cuts off the show before the end credits are finished. What's more, that particular Regal is a stadium but only in 12 of the 15 halls. All About My Mother got put into a non-stadium hall.
The third time? Ghost Dog -- at the AMC Empire in NYC the weekend that Times Square megaplex opened (April 2000). There was no studio ID at the beginning and no end credits at all. Turns out AMC got a circuited print from another theater that must have chewed the bejeesus out of it. I got passes when I complained to AMC about the screwup.
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-30-2001, 01:51 PM:
basically they are not supposed to bring the lights up or make the anouncement until the credits finish
But then with the growth of the comercial IMAX theatres the standards have been continously dropping
Posted by Frank Rapisardi (Member # 435) on 10-01-2001, 08:33 AM:
At a drive-in that I once worked at;it was common practice to cut the end credits.Saves time go home early(That's what the manager would say) In the Fall we would even start the co-feature with reel #2,thenstart selling tickets.Again(Saves time ,go home early) But I always did what I was told! Good little me!------------------
Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 10-02-2001, 12:02 AM:
quote:
At a drive-in that I once worked at;it was common practice to cut the end credits.Saves time go home early(That's what the manager would say) In the Fall we would even start the co-feature with reel #2,thenstart selling tickets.Again(Saves time ,go home early) But I always did what I was told! Good little me!
You mean that the people didn't get to see the first reel of a movie that they were paying to see? I hope I'm misunderstanding something about this, but if the management's primary goal is to go home early, why not just show one entire movie per night with nothing else and close afterwards, or better yet, with that attitude, just get a day job and close the theatre? 
Fortunately, I have seldom had any problems watching credits in the local theatres. Many times, I leave as the credits start but if I want to see the credits, either because I want to see information about a certain song I liked from the movie, suspect that a joke scene may be in or after the credits, or for some silly reason want to see the masking move back to flat position after a scope film at Carmike 10, by gosh it's my right to watch them and feel that it is part of the movie experience that I have a right to see in return for buying a ticket.
Occasionally, projectors have been shut off before credits have been done, or ushers have come in and turned on auditorium lights during the credits, which I will deduct for in my rating system. I've never been forced out during credits, though. If that happened during credits I wanted to see for one or more of the above reasons, I would definitely not use my "no more than 2 points deduction for anything happening during the credits" rule and deduct more heavily for it.
In the "Projection Quality Review system changes" thread in the Film-Handler's forum, in my opening post, I have an example review from one particular attendance, and one of the deductions is "projector shut off about 10 seconds after credits began" (-2) . The problem code for that is "C" (credits not shown in entirety). Since the projector shut off 10 seconds into the credits, I didn't even have time to get up and leave before they were shut off. If they'd waited 15 more seconds, they may have gotten away with it.
Customers must not give in to these types of practices and let their opinions be known. Customers have already come to expect a certain amount of carelessness and sloppiness in presentation as the norm, as well as ushers coming in an cleaning the instant that credits start. If customers remain apathetic, these trends will continue. Carmike looks at my site (hits from carmike.com appear in WWW logs) occasionally and I'm sure they see my reviews of presentations at their two local theatres (currently 125 presentations reviewed from their two theatres here). It is a feedback mechanism, and it's a shame that the theatre companies don't have good mechanisms to support reporting problems with the level of detail that I use on my site. Regal's "comment card" is better than nothing, but is limited (due to the 255 character limitation). Carmike does not appear to have any real mechanism for reporting presentation problems on their site.
------------------
Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 10-02-2001, 02:36 AM:
At my theatre we wait until everyone leaves before entering the auditorium. We stand outside and THANK EACH AND EVERY GUEST FOR COMING. I think it adds a nice touch. It also makes it easy for people to report a problem without having to search someone out.------------------
--Sean McKinnon
Manager
Loews Cineplex Entertainment
Liberty Tree Mall 20
Danvers, Mass
www.enjoytheshow.com
Posted by Frank Rapisardi (Member # 435) on 10-03-2001, 06:34 AM:
Evans,When you said "I think or hope I'm missing something" in regards to me starting the show in the fall with reel #2;you're not.That is exactly what we did.As far as I know there were no complaints or perhaps very few. Maybe this is another reason why this drive in is now a Home Depot.Actually the reason it's a Home Depot is that we were paid 15 million for the land.------------------
Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 10-03-2001, 07:57 PM:
Shut down cue is always place at the begining of the rating at our theater. Very simple. End of story, and the presentation.
Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 10-03-2001, 08:14 PM:
At my old theater, we never, never shut down credits early! Generally speaking, if a screen was a madhouse because of an opening "blockbuster" we would simply bring up the houselights and janitor lights so that the floor people could get a head start--and this was only done if the theater was empty of patrons.Company policy was to run a flic even if the screen was empty--you never know when someone will come in. If the screen was empty, then I would get permission to run it with the bulb off to save hours and $$--and if we did have a late commer, then I would simply strike the bulb.
Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-04-2001, 03:12 AM:
When I was a projectionist I would not even raise the house lights during credits unless specifically asked to do so by a manager. They are part of the film and that's that.Another argument for keeping them off is that the emergency (maintained) lighting in a cinema should be bright enough for customers to see their way out in the event of a power failure. If they can see their way out during a power failure then they can see their way out during the end credits. Therefore by keeping the house lights off during the credits you are testing the emergency lights during every show and making sure that they're doing their job properly.
If keeping all house lights off during credits results in a significant number of complaints from people who can't see their way out, then imagine what it would be like in a smoke-filled auditorium during a power cut.
Posted by Carl King (Member # 398) on 10-07-2001, 07:28 AM:
A movie should run on your screen until the very end of all credits.
I'm in Canada and the rating bands do not apply here so I either cut them out or cue the picture to stop before the rating hits the screen depending on where it is on the print.Show it all, boys and girls, that's what the patron is paying for and besides ..it's only good projection
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 10-07-2001, 12:12 PM:
Amen!
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 10-28-2001, 10:56 PM:
Once at the end of the last show the auditorium was empty and the usher brought up the house lights for the cleaners. I checked through the booth port that the house was empty, then turned off the lamp to begin the ten minute cooling period before opening the breakers, which was my practice to prolong the Xenon's life by not trapping
its heat at closing.
But I was unaware that a patron was standing in the doorway under the booth, reading the credits. She went down the block and across the street to complain to the manager at our sister theatre.
Sometimes you have to watch out for what you can't see...