This is topic "Two Thumbs Up" for stadium seating in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 12-14-2001, 05:40 PM:
Yes, the US Department of Justice has given its approval to stadium seating. I found out from this press release I discovered on a spur-of-the-moment visit to the Cinemark website.
Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-14-2001, 05:57 PM:
Life isn't equal. Next sound movies will go on trial because the deaf can't hear them, then a narrative describing the picture will be required for the blind. Then complex story lines will be banned so that those with minimal intellect (stupid) will not be offended. In order for things to be equal we will charge a fee to sit for 2 hours in a completely dark, silent room with stadium seating. I guess we will be running black film without a lamp.
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-14-2001, 06:47 PM:
I read the press release and was dismayed to find not one word acknowledging the needs of handicapped theatre patrons, many veterans
who have been wounded and handicapped defending their country.Non-stadium seating theatres provide places for wheelchairs, and that system has been working well in the theatres I've worked. Why can't new theatres incorporate an elevator for the elderly and handicapped,
parents with infants, etc? The elevator could also be used to transport films to and from the booth, or used to access the manager's offices as has been the case with some NYC theatres since the 1930's. Considering the millions paid to architects and construction contractors, the elevator could be incorporated into the cost and gain our industry the esteem and good will of the public!
And Bill, people with disabilities are human beings with rights equal to yours and mine. And YES, the blind and deaf DO ATTEND MOVIES in large numbers, and enjoy as much as they can of the social and emotional-artistic, fun experience. Why else do we lend or rent infra-red or FM receivers to the hard-of-hearing, or accommodate groups of blind patrons from The Light House and other support groups?
Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 12-14-2001, 07:47 PM:
Two historic theatres in Toronto will Close because it will be too costly to retrofit them for handycapped access
At somepoint enough is enough
Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 12-14-2001, 10:29 PM:
I bet senior citizen groups don't give thumbs up to stadium seating. I have grandparents who don't go to stadium type theaters because they find it very dificult to climb stairs.Personally, I hate stadium seating.
Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 12-15-2001, 12:49 AM:
Gerard seems to think that the least a theatre can do is install an elevator to get to stadium seating, and the projection booth, and the office etc. etc. He wants theatre companies and independents to spend nearly a hundred thousand dollars per theatre for a relatively few people. Where will this money come from? Most of these companies are already in bankruptcy. Besides, where will these elevators take them? Will it bring them to the top of the stadium, or deliver them to the middle somehow. Wherever it delivers the patron, that location won't be acceptable to some. How many elevators will a theatre need... one per auditorium or one per plex? If only one per plex, how do you get someone from an elevator to everyone of the auditoriums? Do you have hallways running throughout the 2nd floor behind the projection booth with other halls connecting to each auditorium? That would create a separate booth for each theatre. Not very practical. The expense goes way beyond the cost of the elevator. What about policing these extra entrances and hallways? Plexes have a problem now with people jumping from one theatre to another, this would make it even worse. I have read where some handicap advocate groups want to be able to have equal to the best seating in the theatre, right in the very center. Now isn't it interesting that if we remove the seats at what is considered the very best location (regardless where that is) and make that area for the handicapped, then they will be the ONLY ones to get the best seating area. Another example of reverse discrimation.
Almost every stadium theatre that I have ever seen has a section of conventional sloped seating in the front and locates the wheelchair spaces at the rear of the sloped section, which is about a quarter of the way back from the front. I find this to be a very acceptable location for the wheelchair spaces. I often sit there myself and see nothing wrong with that location. Actually I think it would be better if a couple more rows would be left sloped and a few less stadium so that the handicap spaces would be a little further back, and so seniors or anyone not wanting stadium seating would have a larger choice of seat locations. Either of those would be better then adding the cost of elevators to theatres.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-15-2001, 01:08 AM:
quote:
Gerard S. Cohen said:Why can't new theatres incorporate an elevator for the elderly and handicapped, parents with infants, etc?
Infants should not be allowed in movie theaters.
Posted by German Marin (Member # 918) on 12-15-2001, 01:09 AM:
I love stadium theatre because the man sitting in my front can't put his big head on my way. I work in a stadium theatre and i see when old people can't climb the stairs. The things on this world aren't perfect, but we try to delight and get all the best of it.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-15-2001, 01:53 AM:
Don't most stadium seating theaters have at least one row of regular seats at the lowest level?I do tend to agree with Gerard here. I mean common sense needs to be applied, but reasonable accommodations should be made. I know different people will have different opinions on what's "reasonable"... no accommodation is not right, but closing theaters is not right either. We'll all be old farts one day; hell, I'm one already! 
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 12-15-2001, 04:12 AM:
The handicap groups pushing the issue of stadium theatres have one desire: That everyone suffer the same limitations they do. Their goal, quite frankly, is to see every stadium complex raised. While it is unfortunate that they cannot enjoy stadium seating to its fullest, does that mean that I should not be able to either? Should the local steak house be prohibited from charging more than McDonalds because it sin't fair that the poor cannot afford the steak house?
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-15-2001, 07:51 AM:
The new local (Famous) plex near me has all sloped seating with screens that are too big (nobody sits in front half until back is full). They run 8-10 seats at the sides, the rest in the centre. What they seem to do is scoop out about 6 seats at the side half-way back (good viewing) for about 4 rows. They leave 4 seats against the wall presumably so family can sit together. Assume they are used, though I have never seen a wheelchair at a movie......
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-15-2001, 04:53 PM:
Richard and Dave say they have seen stadium-seated theatres with accommodations for wheelchairs. And I have just heard from a patron of a Valley Stream megaplex that an entire level is accessible, with room for about 24 wheelchairs. I agree with John that "reasonable accommodation should be made." We all grow old, and the American population is graying at an ever-increasing rate as modern medicine
helps prolong our lives. "Grow old along with me--The best is yet to be." should be our belief. Is not one true measure of a society the way it treats its elderly, and its weakest members? Hitler promulgated a cult of strength and physical perfection and condemned
"imperfects" to death, though his impotence and Goering's obesity
showed the falsity of his claims.Jim's statement "the handicap groups pushing the issue of stadium seating have one desire--that everyone suffer the same limitations they do" seems to me a cynical misunderstanding of the use of legal pressure to bring an issue to public attention in order to produce
some form of "reasonable accommodation."
This issue has a parallel affecting not a minority, but the majority
of our population who are female. If you've gone to a Broadway show or an older athletic stadium, you've probably been frustrated by
waiting for women whose access to restroom facilities has been hampered by waiting on long lines. In my theatre and in numerous stadiums, women have resorted to taking over the men's rooms because
the architects flagrantly disregarded the "potty-parity" needs of female patrons in the outfitting of the rest rooms. Were the architects all stupid? or did they bend against better judgement throughout the 19th and most of the 20th centuries to the economies
imposed by stingy misogynistic theater moguls? Fortunately, "I was
blind but now I see" enables us to make progress in overcoming inequality. Newer facilities follow fairer building codes.
Dave has "never seen a wheelchair at a movie." I have seen them every day at the Continental III in Forest Hills, where the manager made places midway on the center aisle and at the rear. Perhaps
because the Seniors' Self-Help Center on Austin Street was only a block away, we had a lively and wheely crowd of seniors.
Joe stated "Infants should not be allowed in a movie theatre."
Where cinema is part of the folk culture, the family turns out as a group. Maybe it's not part of the culture to trust the infants to
baby sitters, or it's too expensive, or sitters are not available,
but Valley Stream multiplexes provide booster-box seats in the rear rows for infants and toddlers, and some theatres check strollers in the lobby. I am hard put to think of anywhere I'd prohibit infants,
with the exception perhaps of coal mines, smoker's bars or brothels.
Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 12-15-2001, 05:49 PM:
Infants cry at random, and today's sloppy parents seldom take the baby out of the auditorium until it calms down. They just let it cry or try to "shush" it right there (which does not work, infants do not understand "SHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!") If you want to ruin the movie experience for everyone then bring an infant. But if you decided to have kids in the first place then you also decided to accept the limitations that come with it. Be responsible for cryin' out loud, or your infant will do exactly that. Just because you love your baby doesn't mean everyone else does.Booster seats are made for toddlers, not infants.
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-15-2001, 06:06 PM:
Why do babies cry? Most often because they are hungry, wet,
in pain or sick. Healthy babies usually sleep most of the time in a cinema. When hungry, they nurse. When they need changing, the mothers
take them to the fold-down tables located in the restroom area. You
find these tables prominently labeled in Mens' and Women's lavatories
in theatres, fast-food restaurants, train stations, airports, hospitals, courthouses and other public buildings. They are in all
the toll-road highways in the Northeast, and by now, or soon, you will
find them coast-to-coast. Providing the facilities ("If you build it,
they will come") is a form of education. When parents are encouraged to use facilities for comforting their babies, the crying-baby
problem will significantly diminish.
Posted by Paul Cassidy (Member # 951) on 12-15-2001, 09:39 PM:
We had stadium seating in our cinema and the only access to the auditorium was up these steep steps , if we were to renovate or rebuild in any way we would have to supply a lift for these users at a Cost of up to $30,000 ,so you can see why not too many old theatres did too much renovating, anyway if we did get any wheel chair patrons we would use the fire exit which was at street level and they could have a nice place in the stalls area , BUT in the fire Code that we had , stated that no wheel chairs were allowed in the cinema and that those people would need to seated , if a fire occurred they would need to be carried from the theatre ,as the wheel chair would be a obstruction ? so what do you do? provide access for somthing that is not allowed in there in the first place , GOT ME 
Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 12-15-2001, 11:26 PM:
Actually that is a good point that I have always wondered about. At almost every theater that I have been to, there usually isn't handicap emergancy exits. I 've wondered how a wheelchair bound person is supose to exit the theater in the event of a fire. Most theater exit doors require the customer to climb a set of stairs to get to ground level.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 12-15-2001, 11:33 PM:
You are definitely right about women's bathrooms, Gerard. Over at Nassau Coliseum, when there's a rock concert, they make every other men's room for ladies. I, too see very few people in wheelchairs come into our theater, but I think the laws requiring a specified amount of wheelchair spaces is based on future data that show there will be a serious increase in old fokes; better to be ready.My dad was in a wheelchair. From 1985 until 1990, he lived here in Connecticut, then moved to San Diego. I would push him around, and holy smokes what a job. Very few places around here have accommodations for wheelchairs. The simplest things become a major barrier (doors, curbs, steep ramps, etc.) When he went to San Diego, it was totally different- very easy to get around. California has tough handicap laws, and we neeed to catch up.
I don't think that handicap groups want everyone suffer the same limitations they do; in fact I think they want the opposite. They want to do things for themselves, but do need "systems" in place to be able. I mean, if you feel like seeing a movie, you just go without really thinking; you don't need anyone's help. If you need to call someone to help, arrange transport, ask for the key to operate the wheelchair lift, etc. it starts to "kill the fun" of going out. Wouldn't it be nice if even someone who can only move their finger could say to themselves, "I'm gonna get a beer right now, then see that movie.."
Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 12-16-2001, 02:39 AM:
I agree with Joe.
Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 12-16-2001, 08:22 AM:
No Gerard, it was SLOPED in my case. And actually, I was in one of the smaller auditoriums last night and noticed that with only 2 seats
on each wall, the "handicapped parking" was at the back again. But, no stairs or access problems anywhere, even the exits...I recall a discussion a couple years back on the drive-in list. I'm not sure if an owner was threatened by a suit, or simply was wondering what he had to provide. I suppose a ramp to the snack bar, and accessible washroom. A little easier to modify than the tragedy about to occur in Toronto....
Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-16-2001, 10:33 AM:
The only complete solution would be to have a flat floor at sidewalk level with no fixed seating, patrons would pick up a folding chair when they come in and sit anywhere they like. The screen would be fairly low to avoid having to look sharply up and with a steep projection angle and a clear space in front there would be nobody walking thru the beam. I saw a place something like this at a resort many years back and it wasn't too bad.
Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 12-16-2001, 02:28 PM:
Unfortunatly, that is not a solution. Lowering everyone to the lowest commone denominator is not a solution. What else are we willing to sacrifice because some people cannot participate? Shall we shot down the Ivy League because less intelligent people are upset that they can't have a Harvard education? There will always be those things that some people cannot do. While that may be unfortunate, the people who can do those things should not be denied them by the minority that cannot. Realize, I am not talking about all facets of handicapped accessibility. Handicapped restroom stalls, wider doors, et al are feasable and easy to put into a new construction. Elevators to all levels of a stadium theatre is not feasable
Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 12-17-2001, 12:59 AM:
In the small one-screen theatre we own, which was built about 60 years ago, the architects had an answer to the crying baby problem, its called a "cry room" placed at the back of the auditorium. When a crying baby is bothering the audience, we ask the parents to go with their kids into it. They do about 80 % of the time. The room is independenlty ventilated with a separate set of speakers. You can see it at www.pinestheatre.com/cryroom1.jpg
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 12-17-2001, 05:13 PM:
I think stadium seating is just fine if it is done correctly. I would give it a Thumbs Up. If it was not done correctly, a different jesture comes to mind.What is the ratio for handicapped seating vs normal seating? Is it standardized throughout the US?
Handicapped seating could be a major issue, but I think it has to do with where the auditorium entrances are. Seems little thought is given to the emergency exits in the front of the auditorium. Very few of these doors seem to have ramps leading up to the emergency exits. If the emergency exit doors are at floor level, the other side would probably have steps.
If the theater has a sloped floor, a problem with run-away wheel chairs can be just as dangerous.
Would it make sense to keep the handicapped seating in the rear of the auditorium providing the entrances are at the rear, also?
If I was confined to a wheel chair, I would like to park as close to the exits as I could without any stairs or steep grades (up or down) impeding my escape.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-18-2001, 01:27 PM:
I too agree with Joe about the infants. Call me biased, but the perfect location for a family with an infant is the Drive-In Theatre!! As the father of a one year old, our days at the local 27 screen Regal are over (at least for several years). By the time you add up the cost of dinner for 2 at a decent restaurant ($38.00) + 2 adult tickets to the 9:00 p.m. show ($16.00), a stop by the concession stand - 2 Cokes and a popcorn ($11.00) - then to top it off - paying the baby sitter for 6 hours ($40.00) - then having to drive her home at mid-night - that's $105.00 for a date with my wife.
The same date with my wife and my son at the drive-in for TWO shows (first run) and dinner for all three of us.... $22.00. Sure the food may not be the same, and there's no THX certified multi-channel surround sound, and no stadium seating, but I could go to the drive-in 4 times, and still not spend the same amount as I would for one night at the indoor theatre.
Could the stadium seated auditoriums have a provision for a "Cry Room" ?? Even our church has a cry room. Huge sound-proof glass window, with speakers in the ceiling.
------------------
Barry Floyd
Floyd Entertainment Group
Nashville, Tennessee
(Drive-In Theatre - Start-Up)
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 12-18-2001, 07:40 PM:
Wow, Adam, that "Cry Room" beats even the V.I.P. room at Radio City Music Hall, (alongside the projection booth!) And your theatre is very tastefully designed. Looks like the kind of auditorium I'd really enjoy seeing a good movie in. I'll bet audiences behave well in such a setting, and with such an attitude of service on the part of the manager.
So your manager's creation indicates there are more solutions to a problem than one can guess at! And Barry's church experience reveals
sometimes creative minds think alike.
Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 12-18-2001, 09:12 PM:
Thanks Gerard,
We take pride in having a first rate presentation and if you are ever in Northern Michigan stop by.. There is no reason for the rest of the audience to be annoyed by one or two loud kids when there are 450 other people watching a movie that they paid $6.00 each for.