Now, on to my question. I have noticed that recently I have had *select* patrons realize that they could create a new scam at my particular theatre. A group will come in to the lobby, say 4 or 5 kids, 2 of them will buy tickets, come thru the lobby to the doorpersons, get the tickets torn, & go to the auditorium. One fo them will then take the same two tickets stubs(or more at times)out to the rest of the crowd they came up with. They then approach the doorperson, who, most likely than not, will redirect them into the auditorium again.

Now, last night, I had to call the polica to get one group's head right. THey didn't want to hear the fact that I was NOT going to do ANYTHING for them at all, aside from ask them to leave my building. They were either so brazen, or blatantly STUPID, which is more likely the case, as to pass tickets to friends stading right in front of the auditorium door where I had an ast. mgr. placed soley to check tickets for this particular film.

The way my building is set up, I can only place the doorpersons in one place, unless I have them immediatley at the front doors, then I lose most of my inner building crowd control, so to speak. ANy of you guys picked up on this, as I KNOW it isn't a new thing, just new in my theatre, and I have to eradicate it, NOW, before it gets any worse.

Any help either here, or in privy email will be much appreciated.

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
 

You take the stub, and mark it with a stamp, and then stamp the hand of the person with the stub. The ink is safe, and the stamps custom made and rotated by style and ink color to offset anyone trying to pull a fast one. One ticket, one person, one show.

If someone comes in with a stamped ticket and no stamp on the hand, they dont get in, they get charged with shoplifting.

They need both to get back in. Period.

ANd to prevent the problem of fresh ink bieng shared between buddies, the words on the stamp would be reversed, so you know you have a problem.

Dave
 

This is one of the corporate fallacies of having a ticket-taker perform more than one job to save money. If that person is properly checking tickets and stubs they don't have the time needed to perform additional crowd control.

Use standee poles and ropes during busy periods to direct all incoming traffic from the box office and exterior directly to the ticket-taker. Have access to the concession and restrooms ONLY from the auditoriums. You can refuse access from the exterior to restrooms, and often must do this in out-of-control theatres. Once a person leaves the theatre, they are out. Stubs are not accepted by the ticket-taker without a manager examining them in detail and providing a lecture that stubs from outside will no longer be accepted. Within a week, things should start to clear up.

You may need to have what is called a "point" position for interior control. This employee either verifies ticket stubs or watches for crossovers from a security point in the hallway, as well as lining up incoming audiences in holding areas until an auditorium is cleaned.

If you are having this problem, you may be having "split ticket" problems as well, where one ticket magically becomes two valid stubs. Ticket takers must ALWAYS return the same (left or right) half of a ticket. This is one reason why my "Skinny Elephant" (r) tickets are asymmetrical.

 

I agree with most of Jerry's suggestions, except it might be hard to not allow people back in once out. Smokers are always going out/in.

Usually we find only one film is a problem; all the kids want to see that one. So we put an usher at the door to that one theater. Luckly, he can stand in a place where he can check incomming tickets and also watch the front exit doors (I usually try to keep an eye out from the booth- the kids never think of that.)

I think Jason did the right thing by simply throwing them all out. Now they lose their money and don't get in.

I love Jerry's asymmetrical ticket idea.. one of those "Why didn't anyone think of this before..."

When we need to, I do place someone on point at the auditorium door to check ticket stubs, as well as having cashiers agressively check ID's. No ID, no ticket. Sorry about your luck.. Oh, your girlfriend doesn't have her ID? Then enjoy the show on your own, because she's NOT getting in. And get caught trying to cross over, lose your money AND get escorted out of the building.

Kids (and young adults) are becoming more and more brazen these days, and they know (or think) that there is little that we will or can do. My stance is simply this, you are in MY building, you will abide by MY policies, or you will simply be asked to leave, no refund, no return pass, no nothing. BUT, coporate policy dictates that "The Customer is always right", yeah, what about when your customer is a complete dick? Are they right then? Are you going to roll over against my decision, which simply tells the offender, "Feel free to come here and do whatever you damn well please, the house manager can't do anything to stop you, and if he does, don't worry, send us an email or give us a call, we'll send you a nice letter of apology and more free trip passes"..

WTF?

At any rate, back off my soapbox, The hand stamp thing would work, but seems a little more agressive than it is practical, IMO. They do that at night clubs/bars where they try to keep underage kids from drinking, but that's a different type fo crowd altogether, as someone else mentioned about the elderly couple, and if you're going to stamp one person, you better stamp them all, thanks to the bleeding heart liberals in society, least you get sued for discrimination....

I'm going to put police officers on duty again to patrol the lobby, hallway areas in hopes that presence alone will serve as a deterence for such behavior. We'll see how that works out for the time being.

Keep the suggestions rolling, please..

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!

Uhh, you could make it a requirement of getting a student priced admission. "You want the discount? Get your hand stamped." Totally legal.

John, good point about smokers. Maybe they get a "pass-out" ticket?

However, due to the holidays, we could not do this, nor did we have the staff to put ushers on each door to check tickets. So, we just went through the "problem" houses about 5 minutes before showtime and checked tickets and ids for every minor. We probaly managed to eject 30 people last night alone for being in a theatre with the wrong ticket, or just having no ticket. The funny part is the kids are used to us checking at doors and checkpoints, so, when they see the theatre is unguarded, they just flock in and *think* they are going to get away with it...

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 

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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
 

This is a problem I have encounted before and this is how I solved the problem. I bought a box of 3 x 5 computer index cards and printed up a bunch of "Re-Entry" coupons. Whenever a customer wanted to leave the auditorium section and go to the lobby or restroom they were given a "Re-Entry" coupon. The usher knew that everyone who entered the auditorium section should have a full ticket or a Re-Entry coupon. Each person should be given a coupon not one for each group. I made up several paks of 100 coupons to use on different days using different symbol or words ( "***" or "Clint Eastwood") so to keep anyone from making a copy on their home computer and trying to use them at the theatre. You can even buy different color index cards and use them on different days of the week. This stopped the problem immediately. I've been to your theatre several times during vacation and I remember the layout of your theatre. You may want to give this a try, I used it for years during my manager years.
 

Thanks for the most applicable suggestion yet. Not that the others were not good as well, it's just this one seems to be the most readily adaptable for my specific location. Thanks for all the other ideas as well you guys...

Greg, did we actually speak with one another while you were in town, either this summer, or the summer of '00? I recall talking to a person, or persons, from WV somewhere, but I forget both the name(s) and location... My mind is shot anymore...

Anyway, thanks again!

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
 

Never had the pleasure of speaking with you or any of your managers during the times in your theatre. Now that we have met, I'll be sure to look you up the next time my wife is shopping on the "Broadway". I've been traveling north the last couple of years, but I love Myrtle Beach and have been there 10 to 15 times over the years. I had the same problem in a theatre I ran in Charleston, WV. with teenagers bringing out their stubs and passing off to their friends. It's hard for the ushers to keep track of all the faces during busy times. The re-entry coupons will make it almost impossible for them to sneak in and they will start looking for a new angle. Start watching your exit doors!

Good Luck!
 

Dave
 

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I was once told by the manager of a multiplex in NYC that they never discouraged patrons from going from theatre to theatre to see multiple features on a single ticket. That took me quite by surprised. His reasoning was, "hey, the longer they stay in the theatre, the more soda and candy and popcorn they will buy. I don't care if they see three or four film in one day." I thought that was an interesting perspective.

I guess what I am wondering, is it worth having to turn your standard operating procedures upside down to stop a just few idots, maybe inconveniencing or even alienating your good customers, without first assessing the real economic impact of the kids "theft of service" has against the severity of cost to counteract it?

Frank
 

Perhaps I am missing something, but let me try to put the problem in my own words to make sure I understand it. You're talking about a kid coming out and passing the ticket stub to his friend. The first kid gets back in without having to show the stub because he made sure when he left that the usher would recognize him when he came back in. The second kid, however, has to show the ticket stub because he is not recognized (because he was never in to begin with.) Did I get it?

If so, there is a simple solution: NO RE-ENTRY without a valid ticket stub. Ever. I don't care if I recognize you. You can't get back in unless you show me your ticket stub. By valid, of course I mean for a show that is still playing and has not dropped yet. You do have to be careful of people just flashing old stubs.

So is there any reason why this method would not work?
 

The doorperson has done nothing wrong and the kids just screwed me and the rest of the honest theatre patrons we have.

I like the pass out card with different colors and different code words on them and I will experiment with that idea, along with actual police presence (even though I don't want to justify that extra expense) if I can't deter the problem any other way.

Anyone else have any input? 300+ members and only 12 ideas? Come on folks, pull together here...

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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
 

Recently, I went to a gas station in front of my neighborhood, from which I've been buying my gas for the past 11 1/2 years. This station does not have credit card readers on the pumps and although this station has wanted people to prepay, they've always let me pump my gas, then go in and pay with my credit card. The last time I went there, I held up my credit card and they wouldn't turn the pump on unless I went in and left the card with them while pumping my gas. I left and drove to the other gas station in front of my neighborhood that has credit card readers on the pumps. I'll not return to the first station for a long time, if ever. I do not drive off without paying for gas and I don't want to be treated like a criminal.

The same psychology applies to theatres or any other place I do business. If I get the feeling that staff at a theatre distrusts me and goes to more trouble than usual to check my ticket before letting me in, and it keeps happening, I'll make notes about it on my site. I consider tearing my ticket as I enter the auditorium hall the standard practice, and for R-rated movies or a movie likely to sell out, checking the stub at the auditorium door acceptable (has happened 5 times out of 323). If staff count the people in an auditorium and find more people than tickets sold or find underage people (especially for R rated movies), I don't mind if they ask to see stubs, as long as this does not happen too often. This has happened exactly once out of by 323 visits. I would find the policy of not letting people back into an auditorium after going to the restroom or concession stand without checking the stub annoying if it were done all the time, especially if I had to pull out my wallet to show the stub while having my hands full carrying a popcorn and coke.

I think putting a stop to a few problematic customers goes a long way in preventing these sorts of problems. Someone who gets away with it once will try again, and will be easy to notice and catch eventually, and once caught, word will get around. Punish the guilty, and not the innocent. No matter what measures are in place, there is always a way to beat the system, whether through a security hole, or by plain old social engineering.

There was one prick back in late 1998 that found a roll of Cobb theatre tickets in a trash can at a theatre and was going to look at current ticket stubs and use a laser printer to print some tickets for movies. I told him it was the stupidest idea I'd ever heard, since he would have to get all the information on the stub correct, including the auditorium number, which would be difficult to know ahead of time without visiting the theatre first. I told the idiot that the reason the rolls of tickets were in the trash was because the local theatres were now using Regal tickets instead of Cobb ones like he had taken from the trash (Regal took over the local Cobb theatres on August 1, 1997). Duh... It would have been funny for him to make a valid stub on a Cobb ticket and try to use it. I shouldn't have told him that so he could try it and get caught. That guy always had a way of getting under my skin.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

The problem with this type of behavior is that it causes a lack of control that can create other problems. As a manager, I used to very carefully completely sell auditoriums down to the the very last seat. If I were to have kids doubling tickets I would have had irate customers who couldn't find a seat.

Additionally, during those rare times when a checker or blind checker is at the theatre and actually does what he or she is paid to do, there is a discrepancy between tickets sold and head count. I'm not counting the times that I went in as a district manager, asked for a current show summary from the computer and then counted heads in the auditoriums. In those instances, if I found a pattern of problems the assistant or manager had some heavy duty explaining to do.

 

quote:

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Evans, if you go back to my original reply, where lobby pins are used to direct customers, you'll see how that solution wouldn't affect you.

The problem with this type of behavior is that it causes a lack of control that can create other problems. As a manager, I used to very carefully completely sell auditoriums down to the the very last seat. If I were to have kids doubling tickets I would have had irate customers who couldn't find a seat.

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The limiting of access to the concession stands and restrooms except from the auditoriums just would not work at most of the theatres here in Huntsville or Decatur. Let's say I show up half an hour early for the movie, like I usually do, and for some reason, the auditorium is not available until 5 or 10 minutes before showtime, as is sometimes the case. I can't go to the restroom or go ahead and buy concessions until the ticket taker starts taking tickets for that showing, which will be 20 minutes later?

The limiting of concession stand access to auditoriums would work at two locations: Regal Hollywood 18 and Regal Madison Square 12 if the lobby concession stands were closed and the "for show" concession stands in the auditorium access halls were used instead. Most people here are used to buying their concessions before having their ticket torn, so they would have to get used to the difference.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding your method, but it seems like it would be a nuisance for customers. At local theatres, there are typically "two lanes" at each entrance to the halls leading to auditoriums: one for people going in from the lobby (where the ticket tearer is), and one for people coming out of movies to leave the theatre. With your method, wouldn't there need to be three or four with the one or two extra to handle the traffic between the auditoriums and concessions stand if the only one were in the lobby?

Also, why try to sell out every auditorium seat? Wouldn't the audience be more comfortable with a few empty seats around? A few empty seats would make it more likely that couples or small groups could sit together? Of course, this is a different issue that has already been discussed here a year or two ago, I believe.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

Once inside the lobby proper, there can be holding areas, point position, etc. and at least you know everyone inside has a valid ticket, even if they wander to the stand or concession.

Why sell every seat? In part for the same reason that an inordinate amount of projectors get interlocked, or mountains get climbed; Because it is possible. Another reason that used to be valid was the limited release of certain features and high interest. Selling every seat has a similar effect on the public that a long line at the box office does, it generates hype and a feeling of a special event. Most theatres today couldn't pull this off, and I don't recommend it unless there is a skilled manager and top notch staff.

In selling out the original Star Wars, I sold every seat for the entire opening weekend and had 99.9% of the audience happy as clams.
I'm sure others who have been in the business for a while have similar tales. It was fun.

quote:

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I guess I didn't explain the idea well. If you have a center front boxoffice (traditional, but sometimes a PITA), doors immediatly to the left and right of it can go into a funnel of ropes leading to the doorman directly behind it. This need not take much lobby space, and as long as the doorman and cashiers don't have direct contact or capability of signaling each other, there is still a reasonable amount of security.

Once inside the lobby proper, there can be holding areas, point position, etc. and at least you know everyone inside has a valid ticket, even if they wander to the stand or concession.

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Thanks for clarifying. This sounds much more reasonable than it appeared to be in your original description.

That makes sense. In effect, nobody gets into the lobby proper without having bought a ticket. Then, it is immaterial if people go to the restroom or concession stand if they have to buy their ticket and have it torn before then can get that far. It cuts down on the level of "security" required at the entrance to the halls leading to auditoriums.

One theatre in my area (Regal River Oaks Cinema 8) has a center front box office that is inside. To get into the lobby requires going through the cashier line, and "ropes" are in place requiring it. On slower nights, they go ahead and tear the ticket as they hand it to you. They're very thorough about making sure every ticket is torn once someone is in the lobby, because I frequently go a bit early and buy my ticket and then walk over to the mall and eat, then go back. In that case, they don't tear the ticket when giving it, but when I go back, they make sure to tear it. I've never been able to get into an auditorium there without having the ticket torn. This theatre has the best security and seems to attract the best behaved audiences. The staff there are very observant and I suspect that very few people get away with any funny stuff there.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site
 

I was running a "Limited Showcase Engagement by Special Arrangement with Warner Brothers Pictures" of CAMELOT -- in the art-house business, you learn fast how to hype -- EVERY booking is a "Limited Showcase" engagement (we only play for three days) and it is ALWAYS "by special arrangement with the film company" (basically, we pay them the money, they send us the print) but I digress....

So a few days before the opening date of CAMELOT, I get a call in the office from a guy at Warners in Burbank who says that one of their VPs for World Wide Distribution, Joe Gillder, to be exact, is coming to New York with his wife and all the little Gilders during the time we're running CAMELOT. He'd heard about the quality of our presentation, could we issue free passes for his family?

Well, who wouldn't be quite thrilled that word of our operation had reached the offices of a major studio in California? "But of course, he is more than welcome to come see this WB classic," says I.

For the next few days I went about the office working this story into every conversation with every one of my colleagues until they began running in the opposite direction as soon as they saw me coming.

Sure enough, on the day agreed, Mr. Joseph Gillder, WB VIP and family arrived to see CAMELOT in 4 trk mag -- which we call Total Surround MegaSound TM -- and with true Roadshow values. We seated them in the sweet spot; ushers and concessionaires, who were grilled about the VIP visit, were all their best behavior. I was informed by the House Manager that the Gillder family, two young boys, a young girl and Mr. & Mrs.. Gillder had come out to buy concessions and chat with the staff at Intermission; the House Manager relays that their conversation is about how thrilled they are to see this great film again after so many years and so many lesser quality screenings. At the end of the show Mr. Gillder thanks the House Manager personally.

For the next week, I instruct my staff that they will refrain from rolling their eyes in the back of their heads or heaving annoyed sighs when, for the umpteenth time, I recount Mr. Gillder's comments about our theatre in general and our showing of CAMELOT in particular, to anyone within earshot.

Time goes on; even I get tired of the telling. Then, a few weeks later, with the booking of the double-feature CAROUSEL and OKLAHOMA! comes another call. Again from an executive, this time from 20th Century Fox who, amazingly enough calls with much the same tale -- a Fox executive who originally hailed from Brooklyn, was visiting and would we be able to arrange for him and his family to see these two films. "But of course," says I, thinking what a strange coincidence and how lucky we are that our fame, has become bi-coastal.

On opening night, I am in the booth, the preshow music is playing (programmed and timed as it always is to end EXACTLY as the first frames of the WB cartoon hit the screen with the very last note of the non-sync music covering the very first second of the cartoon soundtrack) and I am excited to be running this special, limited engagement for a Fox exec (a native Brooklynite at that) and his family. About five minutes into the thirty minute non-sync music program, I get a call from my Associate Director. She is in the lobby (she always handled customer service in the house) and she's calling me on the house phone. She says she thinks I'd better come down as there is a problem. "What kind of a problem?"

She says, "Well, Mr. Rafferty and his family are here."

"Yeah....I know; don't you remember? We talk about him coming from Fox...today's the day."

"Well, I think you'd better come down because I don't know what to do....he looks very much like the guy from Warners," she says,"and so do his kids and wife."

I asked if she were sure and she said she had already gotten the concessionaire to come over and he and two other ushers recognized them. She wanted me to come down and do something.

I went down and pulled him aside and talked to him quietly, way from his kids and wife. I told him I knew what he was doing and I didn't want to embarrass him, but that this was a scam and it's called theft of service and very illegal; I told him that he was in a lot of trouble. He insisted that I was wrong and that he was from Fox....yada yada yada. I said "look, I don't want to embarrass you in front of your family; I'll let you in to see the movie, but you have to pay full admission for each of you." He held to his story, even got more insistant when we went back to his family. The guy never admitted that he was both Mr. Rafferty AND Mr. Gilder, so I finally had to throw him out.

I told JoAnne before I went back to the booth that I kind of almost wanted to let him in as he obviously loved these musicals as much as we did and probably couldn't afford the tickets. I said, "We won't go broke, and you at least have to give him points for his ingenuity." She told me THAT attitude was why I wasn't allowed on the floor and had to stay up in the booth.

Needless to say, I remained closed-mouth about how we'd been been scammed, mostly due to my being taken in by the flattery. The staff was kind enough not to rub it in too much.

Frank
 

BTW, Rafferty was a famous thief of some sort, wasn't he?