This is topic Moving prints is killing my back in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 01-17-2002, 08:13 PM:
We are an independent 4 screen cinema. Generally we have to move prints about for maximum effect. Sometimes we show as much as 12 prints on our four screens. So naturally a lot of shifting is expected, although now it seems it's really taking it's toll on my back. Small films are ok but it's the big nine+ reelers that do it. Lifting is ok but carrying is the problem. If you imagine carrying a biggie like Harry Potter or Rings under one arm - you wouldn't even carry 9 reels in the cans at one time, with both hands.I have to find some solution to SAFELY move prints, i've had enough of this back pain, which can last a week from moving one print (damn that harry potter!).
I'd be most interested to hear from other UK film-techers about their practices, especially health and safety aspects.
Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 01-17-2002, 08:55 PM:
I worked for a time in a 14-plex where all projectors were in a straight line. One of the projectionists made over a dozen "pizza-platters" of beaverboard, and got the owner to purchase several steel
hospital-type rubber-tired tables. By taking up a show onto a beaverboard covered platter, one could remove the brain and slide the
show onto the table and onto another platter stack. Usually it was done by two projectionists, but I imagine one could do it using middle
platters if he had to. We didn't mind switching shows, because our contract awarded a tidy sum for each switch. But the men later exchanged that perk for a higher hourly wage in the new contract.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-17-2002, 10:05 PM:
I would recommend you obtain help from someone while moving prints. Everyone is entitled to a safe working enviroment. It is very easy to permanently damage your back while moving prints, especially if you have to mount and dismount them by yourself. Been there, and the damage has been done. 
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 01-17-2002, 10:25 PM:
Whenever possible, made-up prints should have TWO people to move them between platters. Handling a full show alone puts awkward strains on the body (especially the lower back) because the load is so unbalanced. A three hour show weighs about 80 pounds (36 kilograms), well above the recommended individual repetitive lifting guidelines in most health and safety standards. As discussed in previous threads, moving a print alone also risks spilling the film on the floor --- like Russian Roulette, 5 times out of 6 you get away with it, but there's a "bloody" mess to clean off the floor the sixth time.
http://www.osha-slc.gov/OshDoc/Fact_data/FSNO93-09.html
http://www.sentry.com/Back_Injuries.html
http://www.ci.mil.wi.us/citygov/health/sboh/back_injuries.htm ------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 716-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 716-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-17-2002, 10:49 PM:
Thanks for the re-enforcement, John. I had that just in mind when I answered the post. I think 80 Pounds extended lifting is equivilant to almost a ton of pressure on some of the lower back discs. That's what the doctor told me, anyway. Of course, that depends on how far the 80- pounds is from the body.All I can say is it will mess a person up very badly! I would recommend you look at John's links above. It could serve as a "wake up" call.
Paul
Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 01-17-2002, 11:08 PM:
My vote is with Paul and John. Two people. Period. Life is too short to put up with back problems you don't have to have.
Posted by Zach Zagar (Member # 379) on 01-17-2002, 11:44 PM:
I think, personally, I would rather have a sore back for the next 50 years of my life than to have to put together a dropped print... I've had to clean up one, in my entire life, 4 years ago, I don't want to ever do it again. Either way, bad back, or extra work, good enough reasons for two print movers.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-17-2002, 11:46 PM:
Hmmm....maybe that's why my back hurts. I don't move prints by myself anymore, but I used to. I didn't like to, but sometimes I had to. I have always insisted on someone helping me whenever possible.As far as making it easier, Regal has carts in their booths the width of a platter and the hight of the bottom platter deck. We also have what we sometimes call "donuts." Sounds to me like that's what Gerard was talking about. But I never thought of taking up a show directly onto the donut. We would always slide the print onto the donut and slide the donut onto the cart.
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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....
Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 01-18-2002, 07:31 PM:
My booth policy is two operators moving a print AT ALL TIMES, on the pizza board with the print clamped. NO EXCEPTIONS! If a print is excessively large (eg: Lord of the Rings), the last two reels are backed off the platter and moved on a 6000' reel seperately to reduce the total weight.Does this save time? Hell no. Does this save prints! Yep. We are not in business to save time in the booth. Do it any other way in my booth and you're toast.
Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-18-2002, 08:30 PM:
And, John's method also saves you from the legal hassles from the Department of Labor and Industries, as well as medial claims from personnel injured on the job.
Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 01-18-2002, 11:00 PM:
Quote: "Do it any other way in my booth and you're toast."Damn I wish I could say that about a lot of things in "my" booth. But that's another whole rant....
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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....
Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 01-20-2002, 08:29 PM:
Thanks for all your help.I have now been released from moving prints, until further notice.
One thing i must say is, i brought this to the attention of my Film-Tech bud's at the same time i brought the problem to my employer's, who have been excellent in their response, which was to withdraw me immediately from any lifting and carrying duties.
We are now in the R&D process of developing a 'clamp' which will enable two persons to safely carry a film of up to 3 hours, safely, securely and speedily!
Posted by Wes Hughes (Member # 981) on 01-20-2002, 11:47 PM:
The only print I have ever damaged while moving (in nearly 15 years of operating platters) was a print that two of us were moving. Not trying to sound snotty, but I feel I can move (utilizing steel clamps) a print more safely alone.As for actually moving them, don't carry them under your arm...put them on your shoulder. If they are really big and you don't have to worry about running into anything in a small booth, bend over about 20 degrees from straight up put the roll onto your back holding the center ring with two hands behind your head. When you get the roll to its destination you can bend over 90 degrees and back up, sliding it onto an middle platter. I know it sounds awkward, and if you have clamps that don't properly fit the roll, or a loose roll it is WAY more dangersous that way....but it always works well for me.
Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 01-26-2002, 01:51 PM:
I like the idea of having a cart to help move prints. Would the person who mentioned this please send me (via private email) a pic of the setup you use? I'd like ot develop some sort of qizmo for use at my theatre to aid in the movement of film from one house to the next as needed.On a footnote, I've never had a serious problem (hear me knocking?) using the traditional clamp, underarm/headlock method. However, I rarely move prints anymore, and I'd like for my guys to have a better way to do it.
Thanks!
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The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese!
Posted by Darren Solomon (Member # 1120) on 01-31-2002, 12:38 AM:
I too have begun to have more back problems with these new longer movies that have come out and would like to see this device that can cart off a print directly from the platters. Please send me pics and how I can get one. I even have a lobby that I have to cut across to get to the upstairs 2nd Booth with a print. Such a big pain.
Thanks
Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 02-06-2002, 09:51 PM:
Not that I have to move made up prints but the whole 2 man and or trolley idea is good.
My background as a labourer has taught me the wisdom of moving things properly. At 6'2 and 240 pounds I dont have many problems with most stufff but do know about persistant back pain from dumb tricks.
You will find in most Health and Safety policies around the world that anything over 30kg (66lbs) should be a 2 person lift. In the airfreight world it is as low as 25kg (55lbs)(i think might be wrong).My point is (at last) no job is worth spending the rest of your life in chronic pain. Once you start causing injury to the back muscles and spinal alignment unless you do some radical re-education and physio you are in for a hell of a rest of your likfe.
Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 02-07-2002, 04:16 AM:
My back problems started 15 years ago (carrying a big tv down a ladder..it went backwards)
any wy the problem is over..WHY:(1)Keeping wait down
(2) water & juice fasts for 3 days ....now & then
(3)white sugger is the killer of the back..especially in cold weather
cya at show west?
-Kevin
Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 12-12-2004, 03:52 AM:
It has been 1038 days since the last post.
Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 12-12-2004, 03:52 AM:
I work at a Regal and yes, the beaver board pizza platters with the 4 wheel cart work very well. All you do is slip the board under the print, safely guide it down to the cart level (about as tall as the bottom platter). The only time we use two people is if the print is on the top platter, and is at least 6 reels. If you're experienced, you can get away with doing everything else on your own. Big prints on the middle platter can be tricky, but usually manageable.
Of course there are always exceptions....my best friend who used to work in booth with me was able to move 7 and 8 reel prints off the top, no problem. I always got nervous when he did. But he always did it fine, without even the ring coming out of place. Its all about the leverage I suppose. Anyways just thought I'd share, even a few years after the fact. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 12-12-2004, 04:05 AM:
RubberMaid Cart
We have two carts similar to this in our booth that are to be used for the transportation of prints. We have a couple short stair cases and tight spots where the carts cant go so two persons should be moving the print at those times (min. of one Projectionist). Except for me, i'm friggin 'special'. Even though im friggin 'special', ill still walk to the other end of the booth to get a cart, because I can do stacks which ultimately saves more time.
Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-12-2004, 04:32 AM:
Move a print by yourself here and you'll regret it. We have a print cart available with a couple racks on it so you can move multiple prints without stacking. Our GM worked projection at one point in time so he knows what he's doing when it comes to enforcing rules in the booth, and he's ready to argue with anyone who tries to tell him to do otherwise. It's two people at all times, and no screwing around.
Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-12-2004, 12:00 PM:
Also remember: If you move a print improperly you are liable to get "sideways cinch marks" all through the print.
If you pick up a print and the layers of film rub together as you lift/carry it you risk making marks that look like cinch marks that you get from pulling on the end of the film on a reel except that they go sideways.
Make sure the print is wound up nice and tight.
Tape the tail of the film down.
Clamp it up with at least 4 clamps evenly spaced around the print.
Use a "pizza board" if you have one.
Always have a helper.
Use a cart to move the print from place to place. Only lift the print from the platter, to the cart or vice versa. Don't carry it the whole way.
Make sure you pick the print up and put it down as evenly as you can to prevent it from flexing and rubbing the layers together.
If you can talk your boss into getting you a Goldberg ShowShipper platter reel, all's the better.
Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-13-2004, 03:22 AM:
all of which may be impossible depending on the booth layout and equipment. we have stairs, narrow doorways, old aw3's with fixed brains that take up loosely (and one aw3r that's better).
amazingly, we really never have had a problem with lateral cinching. until just the other day, when i saw them on finding neverland.
at some point i do want to get some sort of cookie sheet thing going, if i can figure out how to make it.
carl
Posted by Jarrod Cocker (Member # 2773) on 12-13-2004, 07:42 AM:
We have a Trolley Device which is extremely easy to use, and you only need one person to move a film.
We had a Print of 'The Leopard' (1964ish) a couple of weeks ago - 12 Spools, no problem..
Because its going to be hard to explain how it works, I'm just going to take a pic of it tomorrow night, and then post the pic (If thats ok) When i get home....
Till then, bye bye ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
[ 12-14-2004, 08:31 AM: Message edited by: Jarrod Cocker ]
Posted by Jarrod Cocker (Member # 2773) on 12-14-2004, 08:30 AM:
Our Trolley - great for a single projection room:
^The Trolley... The Silver Lever on the right can be 'pumped' to move the board up, whilst at the bottom of the lever, there is a foot pedal, which, when pressed, takes the board down
As you can see - Most films fit easily - This Print is Bridget Jones: The Edge of reason...
We also use this trolley as a temp work area, to remove and add trailers / Films adds etc (remove the ring, and work from the centre)
I took another couple of pics which i'll post if someone else asks - I didnt post them because i dont think your allowed to post more than 2..
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-14-2004, 11:13 AM:
The "Trolley" or other boards under the print are a good way to safely move a full print. Be sure to keep the surfaces clean and free of dirt or anything that may damage the sidewall of the print. ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)
Posted by Eric Webb (Member # 2772) on 12-18-2004, 12:18 PM:
I've seen prints moved with two projectionist the best way to do it any other way seems to cause problems. for movies like LOTR its a back killer
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-19-2004, 03:36 AM:
Actually, moving LOTR was quite easy: just move the entire deck,either the AW3R's, or the Strong's A3/AP3 platters (anything else, please disregard..).
Forget about trying to move these big prints with a board,clamps or busting down 3 reels for a board/clamp move-lotsa work unneeded. Just grabbed an employee to help you move the deck, making sure that the receiving platter has a deck removed to receive that deck with that big print on it.
Say, "1,2,3" and both lift at the same time to release the deck from the spindle. Up she comes without a hitch and an easy move is in progess to the receiving spindle.
We did the same with that 18reeler "Gods and Generals" That was BIG!
Trick about moving prints with boards, is to have a carrying handle slot in the middle so when carrying that print, the weight is alongside of you and down, not in front of you. The board has to have a support board at the end to "cradle" the print on the board when carrying in the vertical position.
thx-Monte
Posted by Ever Gonzalez (Member # 2794) on 12-19-2004, 08:57 AM:
There is no way moving the platters would fit in our booth. Carts barely fit and tilting the print sideways is a must. Two people at all times when you have a booth with cramped space.