Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: should infants be let in free?

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 02-12-2002, 06:43 AM:

i've read posts about crying babies but not with this twist. it is
the policy of my theater to let kids under 4 in for free (i think
they still have to be accompanied), the rationale being that they
can't appreciate the movie anyways and parents would be outraged at
having to pay (the cheaper kids' rate) for them.

if you ask me, people who are not there to watch the movie should
not be there. charging at least a kids' price for toddlers would
(i think) encourage parents to consider whether their toddler is
mature enough to get something out of a film, or just likely to
cause a disturbance. let's not discourage the use of babysitters!

this theater does get a fair share of kiddie movies that you could
almost excuse parents for taking their crybabies to. but parents
also bring them to much more adult movies as well.

i am not suggesting banning any age group, which i consider
discriminatory but many of you will no doubt advocate. i think
any judgment whether a film is suitable for someone has to be
made on a case-by-case basis. and letting little kids in free
discourages those judgments from being made.

i brought this issue to the attention of 2 managers, both of whom
couldn't conceive of charging admission for infants. am i just
overreacting to a recent bad experience? do other theaters have
similar policies? what do you folks think?

carl

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-12-2002, 09:22 AM:

We used to say, "If it walks, it pays."

If crying babies are disturbing other patrons, managment just has to go to the parent and tell them to take the kid outside. You would think parents would do this themselves, but they don't. If it's a kiddie movie, then all the kids are making noise so it doesn't matter.

Sadly, I've seen stupid parents bring 5-8 year old kids to midnight shows of Blade, The Crow, etc. They should make you get a license before you have kids!

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 02-12-2002, 09:33 AM:

If it were me, I'd ban all kids under a certain age, like 4 or 5. All the younger ones do is disturb others in the auditoriums that are trying to enjoy a movie. How many of you went to showings of "Dinosaur" when it opened? The auditorium was full of little babies and young kids that cried during most of the movie because the movie scared them. Most kids under the age of 5 have attention spans of just a few minutes (look at the way "Sesame Street" works). 15 minutes into a showing of "Tarzan", a young girl said to her mother, "I'm tired of the movie." About halfway into "Big Fat Liar", a young kid asked her mother, "When is it going to be over?" Long movies are not for young kids. They get restless and start making noise. I'd love to go to a theatre where kids under 4 or 5 were not allowed in.

This policy, along wth a ban on cell phones, would make moviegoing much more enjoyable.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-12-2002, 09:53 AM:

I agree with Evans. Like there are smoke free zones, there should be kid free zones. Restaurants, theaters etc. I think the folks I see bring babies to the movies are just to cheap to hire a baby sitter. As far as the staff asking noisy or disturbing people to behave themselves....it seems to be the policy of the Regal Poulsbo 10 to never ever go into a theater. You could have all the cell phone in the house singing zip-a-dee doo dah in unison and you'd never see staff. Most of the young parents out there have never been taught manners so they have no problem with their precious apple-dumpling wrecking things for the other patrons. Maybe infants should have to pay twice

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Joel Pantoja (Member # 1045) on 02-12-2002, 09:55 AM:

We had the policy of one year to twelve pay child price. People still came to the movies and brought their noisy kids. The only movies that I can see a reason not to complain about a noisy theater is a "kids" movie. If I want to watch it and I can't make it to the 9 or 10 pm show (even that is a chance these days) I'll ask for a hearing impared device...

Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-12-2002, 10:09 AM:

Babes in arms free, but the cashier is responsible to tell the parent "We don't chage for babes in arms, but at the first sign of fussiness you must take them out of the auditorium."

I'm all for shows after eight banning anyone under twelve. Rugrats should be home by then. OTOH, banning kids all the time cuts off the potential new customer pool. These kids grow up, hopefully to become moviegoers.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-12-2002, 10:17 AM:

As someone else said, if the infant is carried in, free seems appropriate. Just tell the parent at the time the ticket is bought that if the baby acts up, they must leave the auditorium. Crying babies seems to be a pretty rare thing, and most parents will quickly take the baby out to the lobby if needed. If they don't it's up to theater staff to make this happen (fat chance).

If I go to a movie that appeals to kids (like Shrek), especially a matinee, it's a given the audience will be full of restless kids. So I decide up front whether it's worth the aggravation. Sometimes it is.

Young kids brought to strong R-rated movies disturb me more than anything. The parents should be reported to child welfare and be made to attend parenting classes.

At Regal in Eugene, staff always walks the auditorium, usually twice during the show. They walk all the way down to the front, stand off to the side and "observe" for 30 secs or so, then walk out. Usually this is done by a pair of ushers so they cover both sides at once.

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- dave
Look at this! His chin strap has been cut!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-12-2002, 10:43 AM:

I've had far too many movies ruined by babies, but they are a necessary evil I guess. Our policy is to let kids 2 and under in free. What amazes me is the difference in ways kids behave. You can tell the ones who have good parents at home...they are quiet, they say "thank you" and they don't run up the aisles.

We do have a kid free zone...the balcony. Nice big sign there saying "reserved for adults (age 21 and over) only." Even then, you would not believe the people who still try to take their kids up there. What's most hilarious is when the KID says, "Dad, I can't go up there...see the sign??" and the dad says, "Oh it's ok, you're with me." So then I step up and say, "I'm sorry, but the kid is right, he cannot go up there." I have probably embarassed a couple of people, but I don't care...if they're that stupid, teaching their kids to ignore the rules, they deserve it.

Posted by Brad Haven (Member # 954) on 02-12-2002, 11:24 AM:

up untill xmas we had a monthly event called "babes in arm's" at 10am, where we would encourage any mother's or father's with young babies to come, we would not allow anyone in without a baby .
we would even leave the light's on low (very low, GM's decision) so they could feed and change nappies in the cinema without leaving. adult's paid a cheap price $8.50(oz) and bub's in free.
we persisted for a couple of years but it was never a success, but that was mostly due to our inferior promotion's manager at the time, it was a great idea but now it is no longer!.
i agree babies dont belong in the cinema, especially arthouse cinemas, a woman brought a baby in with her to see mulholland drive the other day, we had a couple of complaint's,apparently the baby was mumbling.

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 02-12-2002, 02:54 PM:

The local AMC here in Long Beach now has a big sign near the box office saying something to the effect like "You asked we listened! EVERYONE including infants must have a ticket." I'm pretty sure the problem is people bringing in their kids without paying and taking up a seat and causing seating problems. But for me if I was general manager, first two weeks of a Disney/Kids movie, EVERYONE watching a movie would have to pay, infants and all. Even though adults say they will have them on their lap it's usually not the case, and causes ALOT of headaches.

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 02-12-2002, 04:12 PM:

My policy has always been to start charging at 12 months. What I would really like to do is ban any babies under 12 months... as a matter of fact I'd like to ban anyone under 5 for most movies (non G rated) and ban under 12 for R rated movies. I think parents should only be able to bring in teens for R rated movies, not kids. I've thought that charging $10.00 for infants that should be at a baby sitter would be fair. It would still be saving the parents some money.

Parents can be so inconsiderate, or just plain dumb. I have an older theatre with what used to be called a standee area in the back. Parents will take their crying kids back there as if that has solved the problem, when in fact they are then standing just feet away from other people trying to enjoy the movie. When you suggest that they go out into the lobby beyond the doors they say, How will I see the movie?

It seems to me that NATO could organize an advertising campaign with a trailer that would educate filmgoers of proper etiquette that should be followed when in a theatre. I know that parents should be doing this, and possible schools as well. But, it's just not happening. So if we want to help solve the problem we will have to do it ourselves. It would take all of us to become involved, so that regardless where people go to the movies, they will see that the policies are the same. I often get the remark from people when I inform them of a policy: "Nowhere else do they do that". We tend to be so afraid to offend our patrons in fear that they won't come back. But what about the other patrons that they are chasing away? In the long run, by policing our theatres and getting rid of the bad, we should build a stronger patron base from the good. Those that really want to enjoy the theatre going experience would be able to do so, and the rest can watch video at home and do whatever they want.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-12-2002, 05:14 PM:

If they aren't old enough to walk in on their own two feet (handicapped aside), then they don't get in!

No one under the age of 5 admitted to the 10:00 round of shows. No exceptions.

Parents who do not control their disruptive children will be promptly shot by the projectionist/sniper for being a stupid parent. (In Cinemark terms, that would be an Usher-S!)

At least that's what I would do. Well, I probably couldn't get away with the sniper part, but at least the rest of it should work.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 02-12-2002, 06:37 PM:

There used to be several theatres in Indianapolis that were locally owned, that had in his newspaper ads "No one under 4 years old admitted".
Have no idea how affective it was, but it ran that way for several years.

Posted by Mathew Molloy (Member # 666) on 02-12-2002, 08:14 PM:

I've had several run-ins with parents trying to bring their babies into NC-17 movies (Baise Moi, Romance). Their rationale being that the child is too young to understand what is going on. That may be true but where do you draw the line? So I take the term NC-17 seriously and tell them "No Children 17 and under".

I find that when discussing this with the patron, half the nosey customers agree with me and the other half of the nosey customers agree with the patron. One thing for sure, the half that take my side are much more vocal and some have threatened that if I were to break the rule and let the child in that they would call CPS on both the parents and theatre.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 02-12-2002, 08:14 PM:

A theatre project I am presently working on is going to have a large cry room with switchable video feeds from each theatre. My customer has done this quite sucessfully in the past. The theatre will also have a concierge and coat check as well.
Mark @ GTS

Posted by Bernie Anderson Jr (Member # 410) on 02-12-2002, 09:54 PM:

Why do I remember some time in the late 80's early 90's that a big chain, I believe it was UA, wouldn't allow kids in for the last show of the night? Does anyone remember that?

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 02-13-2002, 05:44 AM:

It was AMC. They started doing it shortly after I left them in the early 90's. This whole hing with infants is firmly sitting in the grey area of operations. You want to make the customer happy by little them bring their children, however you have make the other patrons happy so they don't have to put up with brats. I know well before my time in the industry, there used to be "Crying Rooms" just off from the auditorium so parent could take their noisy children there to not offend other patrons. I beleive they also had sound piped in as well so the parents could at least keep up with the dialogue and story. I think a few up and coming chains have put daycares in some of their locations. It would be really nice to bring that sort of thing back. Unfortunately, with the money pinch on the exhibitors lately, I just don't see that happening.

IMO, not as any representative to any company, I would like to see all theatres have crying rooms and day cares. The perfect thing would to have rooms in the back of the auditorium encased in glass and sound proofed for parents to run to if needed. This will reduce passes going out to patrons, let parents with children to still watch the movie and just plain make everybody happy. Hell, given enough room between auditoriums in multiplexes, these rooms could be on the sides as well. Again, I doubt this will ever happen but it would be nice...

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-13-2002, 07:40 AM:

This is a tough one. I find that most young couples (including myself) just stopped going to movies when they had kids. Most movies just aren't worth the trouble and money for a babysitter. Certainly it would be nice to maintain those customers. On the other hand, some children are VERY good in theatres, and if their parents aren't idiots, they will take them to suitable films where likely there are plenty of other kids. I saw a feature once and I can't remember where, but this house had enclosed "opera boxes" up the sides of the auditorium. They were sound proof and had small play areas for the kids. You reserved them and they had all the same surround sound. This is the solution! Of course, parents still need to pick suitable films.

In our case, we hadn't been to a movie in years, and so we decided to go to the drive-in (which I was sure was closed), and we were hooked.
Every seat's a "cry room" and you can slash the seats!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-13-2002, 07:45 AM:

I recall that some European cinemas (e.g., Kinopolis) have day care facilities available at some theatres:
http://www.kinopolis.de/clubhouse/uebersicht.html#kinderclub

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: 585-477-5325 Cell: 716-781-4036 Fax: 585-722-7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 02-13-2002, 11:09 AM:

Our policy is to charge if they can walk, we also say as they are walking in "we have a cry room available" We have a little room in the back of the auditorium with double paned glass and 6"thick solid wood walls, also with separate sound. It will keep the sound of the kid out of the auditorium unless they throw a very loud crying fit. One time, we actually told a lady to leave who could not keep her kid quiet, she said "the other people who were next to me could have moved away from me so it would not bother them" what a bitch. If anyone wants to see our cry room it is at our web site under the "theatre tour"section.

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Adam Fraser
www.pinestheatre.com

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-13-2002, 01:25 PM:

Chris,

I'm not sure what you mean by theaters putting in " daycares ". A service that watches kids all day long? I can't see theaters doing this, after all, they are in the ENTERTAINMENT industry, not Baby-sitting industry.

In my history of movie watching, the most idiotic thing i've seen on the parents side is letting their 10 year old and his friends watch " Starship Troopers ".

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-13-2002, 01:35 PM:

Ron said: "I can't see theaters doing this, after all, they are in the ENTERTAINMENT industry, not Baby-sitting industry."

It could be an innovative idea to a persistent problem.

The European theatres that offer child care do it for the parents while they watch the movie.

My local supermarket in Rochester (Wegmans) now has a free child-care center that watches young children while the parents grocery shop. They have one or two attendants, who read stories, play games or watch children's videos with the youngsters while the parents spend money in the store. The parents are provided a short-range pager so they can be called if there is a problem:
http://www.wegmans.com/family/parents/findFunCenter.asp

Maybe this good idea could be adopted by theatres to keep noisy kids out of adult movies, and overcome the high (babysitting) cost for young parents to get out to the movies?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-13-2002, 01:52 PM:

Nah, it'll never work. Theaters are too cheap to even have enough staff on duty to handle concession sales, and I routinely see in large circuit theaters people take one look at a long concession line and walk right by it! These corporate guys think they are saving $6 an hour with every employee they cut back, but it really doesn't take but a couple of sales each hour by a customer who would've passed by a busy concession stand to more than make that back.

Just imagine it. A busy Saturday night and a couple hundred rowdy and crying kids being held in a room with 2 employees who really don't know anything about babysitting. Diaper change time? Yeah right. The theaters wouldn't hire a professional, they would let the 16 year olds handle it...and then when they got busy the manager would probably pull one of them away to clean theaters! Also, can you imagine how bad the MovieTunes version of the kid's tv programming to keep them occupied would be, because we all know the theaters would find some way to make money off of it. Finally, with the way customers are always looking for something to complain about (so they can get free passes to come back), all a kid has to do when asked the question is "no Mom, I did not have a good time, these people were mean" and POW, it's pass time!

The only way that would work is at an independent theater where someone with a brain could watch how things were actually being handled on location and take whatever steps were necessary to ensure it worked properly.

Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 02-13-2002, 02:25 PM:

quote:
It seems to me that NATO could organize an advertising campaign with a trailer that would educate filmgoers of proper etiquette that should be followed when in a theatre. I know that parents should be doing this, and possible schools as well. But, it's just not happening. So if we want to help solve the problem we will have to do it ourselves.

It seems that public etiquette is something that is quickly being lost from our society. I'll bet than in 10 years, there will be no such thing. I wonder if education could reverse this trend, or is the "I'm going to do what I want, not caring how it affects anyone else" attitude so strong these days, helped by the cell phone phenomenon, that it's irreversible. I consider cell phones and crying babies to be equivalent. They both make loud obnoxious high pitched noises and both cause their owner to talk. The baby problem might could be helped some if people were educated more on how to use protection. I doubt the cell phone problem could be helped in this way.

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Evans A Criswell
Huntsville-Decatur Movie Theatre Information Site

Posted by Tom Fermanian (Member # 1094) on 02-13-2002, 03:12 PM:

I Dunno?? Brad's sniper seems to sound better by the minute

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Posted by Jerry Chase (Member # 660) on 02-13-2002, 03:20 PM:

Brad, never say never.
Kids done right (BBQd)

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 02-13-2002, 06:41 PM:

Here is what I did in my four screen theater.

1. We did not charge for anyone under five years old. We also did not admit them either, unless it was G or a family oriented PG film. This was at first not popular, but in time it got us to sold out shows with 1200 seats in the building. People loved not having to worry about crying babies or not.

2. No one under 18 was allowed to a show starting AFTER 9:00 PM without an accompanying parent or guardian. This in turn upset the teens, but kept them from turning the place into a party zone. This appealed to our adult patrons, allowing us to play more adult oriented films for late show runs only.

3. No one under 18 allowed to any R rated feature without the parent present during the entire show. If the parent ducked out, we threw the kid out. If the parent took off, we had the police next door hold the child until the parent came back. This made some parents upset, but kept a more adult atmosphere in the shows.

4. No one under 12 to any R rated feature, even with a parent present. Young kids in a R movie just keep talking and the parents keep talking back at em!!!

5. No kids to any movie that are under 12 without thier parent with them for the whole show. We kept getting used as a babysitting service, we put a stop to that. Unsupervised young kids just run up and down the aisles.

6. NO LARGE BAGS OR DIAPER BAGS EVER. Was just used to sneak in stuff. They always left thier crap all over the floor too.

With these rules in place for just six weeks, we shot our number of tickets sold each week to nine thousand for a 1200 seat four screener.

People loved that we had the balls necessary to force those that have no manners at all to go somewhere else. We provided a nice quiet place to see a show.

Then A megaplex opened up a mile away and we lasted about half a year before shutting down.

Dave

Posted by Christopher Duvall (Member # 284) on 02-14-2002, 02:38 AM:

Jerry, Thanks for the reminder. Muvico opened the 24 plex in Maryland right after I moved to Vegas. I had heard rumors of a daycare in the theatre but thought it was never to be. Guess those rumors are correct. I think it is a great idea.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 02-14-2002, 05:50 AM:

thanks for all the responses. i'm surprised how many theaters have some sort of "toddlers get in free" policy. seems to be the rule, not the exception. i stand by my contention that they should pay too, but that probably won't happen at my theater.

the crying room sounds great, but also won't be coming to my theater.
don't see daycare happening either.

as someone pointed out, a good idea is to tell 'em when they buy the tickets that the kid has to be quiet while in the theater, and not simply defer to common sense. probably good for the ticket taker to
remind them too in case the baby wasn't visible at the time of purchase.

there is a theater nearby that has a weekly "baby brigade" show at which the crying set is welcome. if only parents would bring their infants exclusively to these.

carl

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 02-14-2002, 09:25 AM:

How about miniature space suits for the infinks. They could wail and smell all they wanted to and no one would hear them scream

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 02-14-2002, 09:32 AM:

I think the Muvico up in Ft.Lauderdale still has child care on Fri/Sat nights. I don't know what they are charging.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-14-2002, 09:47 AM:

Jerry Chase said: "Brad, never say never. Kids done right.
http://www.muvico.com/main/muvico_kids-playroom.htm "

Thanks for the link to Muvico. Evidently they and Kinopolis are successfully able to offer this service. When my children were young, I would definitely have taken advantage of such a service to be able to get out to the movies more often.

Posted by Rory Burke (Member # 512) on 02-14-2002, 08:13 PM:

It should be done like the airlines do it<not that they seem to set good examples in everything else> however, If the child takes up a seat they should be allowed to charge for it. If they are small enough to sit comfortably throught the show on the parent's lap then they should be allowed to enter for free. On note; there should be a noise surcharge however, I am a big fan of the little tikes ans plan on having me wife if God's willing to spit out as many as we can financially afford...but in my honest opinion little kids don't have any business in the movies including the cartoons until they <case by case> reach and intelectual level of comprehending the movie itself...including Pokemon. I have seen many ten year olds complain because they are being hampered by a screaming 6 yr old and when cinema staff approach the parents they get bombarded with the "Its a cartoon!" line. Common! there should be some basic courtesy and respect for your fellow man/woman/child and a noise surcharge would definately help things out!!!

Rory

Posted by Owen Shave (Member # 1156) on 02-16-2002, 07:32 PM:

here at the filmworks UCI in Manchester England we have a fair policy. If they occupy a seat, they pays the fare. If we think they'll occupy a seat they'll still pay the ticket price. Plus if the kid can walk they also have to be paid for (so no sitting a 5 year old on your lap). If they are noisy and don't respond to pleasant requests to shut up then bye-bye, sorry... you're distubing the film... we'll give them a refund but won't compromise on the interruption of the film by crying babies. Unfortunately far more of our films are disrupted by scally mancunians. These being our main source of revenue gives one or two problems...

Posted by Dave Bird (Member # 490) on 02-16-2002, 09:15 PM:

Thanks for that link John. No reason not to provide this kind of service, they do it in health clubs, ski resorts, etc. Surely would support itself.

Posted by Arthur Allen (Member # 969) on 02-17-2002, 08:17 PM:

The Historic Cameo Theater, Newberg, Oregon: "Under 16 not admitted."