This is topic Using SDDS-8 or EX to attract business? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-09-2002, 07:21 PM:
Is anyone in a small market, with maybe 2 or 3 1st-run exhibitors competing against each other, using SDDS-8 or EX as a draw to get people to choose your theater instead of the competitor(s)? Just wondering if this strategy can actually work. Not getting into the technical merits of the systems.
Posted by Brian Hogan (Member # 940) on 03-10-2002, 05:10 AM:
columbus, ohio is over saturated with screens. im at an AMC 24-plex. there are 4 AMC's total in town, giving us 80 screens. we have always had this market, but regal, cinemark and marcus thought they could take it. they really have no hope, so we dont really feel any competition. as for advertising the sound formats... i dont think it really matters. only the die-hard movie buff is gonna care about if its SDDS or DTS or whatever. im sure any sound format would look good in print if it were sold to the average joe properly. "SUPER ULTRA-STEREO SURROUND IN ALL THEATRES!!" sure, its always been there and its no big thing, but do they know that? nah.
Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 03-10-2002, 08:13 AM:
I tend to agree with Brian; the general public doesn't notice such things. But, unless more 8 channel SDDS prints come out, we'll never know. I don't feel there's a really clear advantage of 5.1 SDDS over 5.1 DTS or 5.1 Dolby SR-D.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 03-10-2002, 08:48 AM:
You almost have to be on a Hollywood mix-down stage to be able to hear which system is which. So in the normal theatre environment you could install just about any digital system and end up with the same results. A number of people ahve sid in these threads that DTS does ahve a bit of a high end advantage though. It may be true as it has the least amount of data compression.
Mark @ GTS
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-10-2002, 10:49 AM:
My question was really whether offering something *beyond* 5.1 will attract customers. In other words if Location A is 5.1 on all screens and advertises All Digital, but Location B makes a point of advertising 8-Channel Digital or EX-Surround or some similar wording for certain films, would it make a difference at the box office. Digital sound in general is expected now (in many markets) so I understand why they don't always advertise the specific format.The manager of the local 8-screen Regal says they may be upgrading to SDDS-8 soon (in the 2 largest auditoriums). Would be a marketing tool used against Cinemark 17, who has stolen a big chunk of Regal's business since they opened. The fact that Regal is thinking of doing this suggests they've tried it in small markets and found it works. Or maybe this would be a test. I dunno.
Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 03-10-2002, 12:29 PM:
The moviegoers who are concerned about 8 channel or EX will be more concerned with overall presentation quality. If the presentation quality can't keep up with the sound system's potential, the point is moot for them.
Posted by Greg Anderson (Member # 235) on 03-10-2002, 01:27 PM:
As has been stated so many times on this forum, the answer to attracting a higher quality/quantity of customers is showmanship. This means "Film Done Right" and a staff which recognizes itself as a part of the entertainment industry.Most of what I've learned about management has been from working with bad managers. There's a certain management style which believes that when the staff is "too happy" then the manager isn't doing his job right. Or, perhaps, they simply want the staff to be afraid of the big, mighty boss. Of course, the customer can sense when the staff is unhappy. The customer is going to the movies to have a good time. The complete environment should reflect that yours is a place to go for a good time. The staff should be bright, happy and fun to be around.
So... what am I really saying? Assuming you already have the digital sound which the customer expects (in whatever format you can afford to have and maintain properly), the money you'd spend on an SDDS-8 upgrade might be better invested in comfortable, clean accomodations or, even better, on the staff. A small, hourly raise here and there can go a long way when it comes with a handshake, a pat on the back and a "I wish I could afford to give you more" speech (if you're really sincere about it... because the staff knows when you're sincere).
By the year 1987, you couldn't buy a VCR without a remote control included. Yet, well into the 1990s, I saw ads for "A 4-head VCR with remote!" The "with remote" seemed silly but some marketing guy must have figured it helped sell VCRs or they wouldn't have spent the money to print it. So maybe if you have a phrase like "Digital Sound in all auditoriums" in every one of your ads or signs at the box office, that constant reminder will be enough to assure the customers that you have met their technical needs. Personally, the phrase "regularly-maintained projection and sound systems in all auditoriums" would mean a lot to me. That's probably why I go to the newer theatres and, after the places are two or three years old, I get really picky about which ones I'll keep going to.
Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-10-2002, 05:15 PM:
It really depends on the market. If in the newspaper yours is the only theater with the SDDS-8 channel astrisk next to it, then there is a stand out that will make the less informed curious as to what is better. Same with EX. Ask the average movie goer (and I did) why they chose going to a film presented in 70mm and 9 times out of ten (more like 95 times out of 100) they will respond "because it is a bigger picture). You show a 70mm film on a small screen and you will get complaints (and we did). The fact that the 70mm ratio is smaller than scope means nothing to John Q public. Sometimes, home association will help...such as Dolby in the 70s and 80s. Many people had Dolby on their cassette decks (remember cassettes?) and could associate the brand of Dolby. I would still say that Dolby has more brand familiarity than DTS or SDDS though Sony may be a better marketing name (or worse if you dislike Sony) nowadays than SDDS...ie Sony-SDDS-8.
But back to the original question, I can see some additional patrons resulting from advertising a more unique format or the THX good housekeeping sign of approval. How many people it will affect really does depend on the market though. I know that places like the Senator in Baltimore really do promote the various formats the films play in with it right up there on their HUGE curved marquee.
Steve
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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-10-2002, 05:35 PM:
Appreciate everyone's comments. To fill in some of the blanks, Regal Cinema World 8 and Cinemark 17 go head-to-head here. Cinemark has cleaned Regal's clock, stolen a lot of the business, mostly due to stadium seating and being in a major regional mall (several other older locations were driven into shutdown by Cinemark). Regal is finally trying to fight back I guess. They have a viable location and some technical advantages, and they seem to be trying hard to win back customers. I talked to the Regal manager for about 10 mins. yesterday. She was very polite, pleasant, and enthusiastic about improving the entire customer experience. She said they are trying hard to make their presentation as good as possible. IMHO, their sound systems have always been much better than Cinemark's, and image quality is excellent lately in the 2 large auditoriums. I know they're working on things because many of their screens had shutter ghosting for a long time, and they have fixed them recently. The Regal location seems very clean and well-maintained, staff is pleasant, etc. so I don't think they have any blatant problems that would drive people away, just no stadium seating and not being in a mall.
Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-13-2002, 08:41 AM:
Whenever you visit other theatres and talk to the managers or technical personnel, don't forget to tell them about Film-Tech, and how it helps get "Film Done Right"! 
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
E-Mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-19-2002, 04:39 PM:
The manager at Regal Cinema World 8 told me today that the SDDS-8 upgrade was installed yesterday, in house #3. Spiderman will be shown in SDDS-8. She says Regal will not allow the sound format to be specified in the newspaper ads, but it will be mentioned in the phone recording. Whatever.
Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 04-20-2002, 04:17 PM:
Brian Hogan said, "as for advertising the sound formats... i dont think it really matters."Well, it matters to me, Brian, and unless you can tell me a way I can get accurate information about SDDS-8 in AMC theatres, I will spend my money at another theatre.
I want to know for sure when I walk in the door that the film I want to see at the time I am there is in SDDS-8...the newspaper and phone system certainly doesn't tell me. I'd ask a manager but I usually get a blank look.
Posted by Jeff Akin (Member # 1198) on 04-21-2002, 03:49 AM:
I know the manager of Cinema World pretty well. She really is fighting down there.As far as our advertising, we just specify "digital." It is up to showtime lines and word of mouth to spread the specifics.
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2 Time ICWF Champion
2 Time ICWF Hardcore Champion
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-21-2002, 11:31 AM:
I've said it before but I hope Cinema World survives because it really is a nice theater and their presentation (especially sound) is usually superior to their competitor here. Judging by appearances though, they still seem to be barely hanging on. It's weird to go there on a Saturday night and there are only 25 people in the movie, and you come out after the show and the lobby is like a ghost town.
Posted by Jesse Stanley (Member # 943) on 04-23-2002, 02:44 PM:
I believe in Columbus. The Regal 16 screen in Georgesville Square 15 screens is DTS and one is SDDS. They always advertise accuruately what format the film sound is. I been to the AMC's and only one that really has a great presentation is the 24 screen and its not that much better than the Regal 16 far as presentation.
Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 04-24-2002, 05:58 PM:
Central New Jersey has "been there, done that".When Loews opened its New Brunswick megaplex in 1996 it promoted SDDS bigtime. That was when Loews was under Sony ownership. Loews began de-emphasizing SDDS well before Chapter 11 and the Onex takeover.
Reading Cinemas opened a 12-plex in Manville in 1999 (5 days before Star Wars Episode 1) and promoted EX. That stopped because so few films came out with EX on them.
Those 2 theaters do extremely well anyway. Why? Bookings, stadium/digital -- and location, location, location.
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 04-24-2002, 07:00 PM:
"8-Channel Sound" would be the gimmick, not SDDS.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-26-2002, 06:01 PM:
Y'know, I would like to think "film done right" and higher tech things like 5.1 digital surround sound will attract more movie goers. Having such things does pay off in getting a certain crowd into the theater. But overall, I think when it comes to picking a movie theater to watch a show, the general public is nothing more than blissfully ignorant lazy cattle.I live in a small market. We have three first run theaters in Lawton. Two of them are located more on the west side of town (the Carmike 8 and Hollywood Cache 8) and the newest theater is in Central Mall more on the east side of town.
The Central Mall 12 gets just about any film it wants since it is more than 3 miles away from any competing theater. The allocation process demands the Cache 8 and Carmike 8 never show the same film and also alternate on showing films from distributors. For instance one Fox film will play at the Carmike and the next one will go to the Cache 8. Few exceptions are made, such as a George Lucas produced film going to the Carmike, which is the only place in town that has THX.
Clearly, the Carmike 8 is the best theater in town (DTS on all screens, the only THX screens in the area, and has a manager that cares about putting on a good quality show). However, the mall theater often doubles the numbers of the Carmike even though that place is a crying joke of a new multiplex. I mean the place is just embarrasing for how ill-equipped a new theater could be for having opened in 2001. Only 2 of 12 screens are DTS equipped, and the damned projectionists don't even load the discs into the DTS players.
Nevertheless, the Central Mall 12 theater gets more customers because it is in the mall for convenient location. For some odd reason, this theater actually beat the much superior Carmike 8 in a Lawton Constitution Reader's Choice Awards poll for the picking the town's best theater. What a bunch of f**king morons!
Anyway, that's the way it goes. I don't think those people care very much about show quality in a theater and choose convenience above all other things. Many of those folks won't care about surround sound and stuff like that until they buy a DVD driven home theater system. Then they whine and complain if a DVD they buy is not in 5.1.
Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 04-26-2002, 06:07 PM:
Forgot to add this part.I put together a large and really snazzy Photoshopped newspaper ad for the Carmike 8 last year when they had their 8th DTS unit installed so they could proclaim "DTS on all screens". Out of theaters in Oklahoma, the Carmike 8 is one of the very few multiplex theaters (or maybe the only one) outside of Oklahoma City and Tulsa to have digital surround sound on every screen. But overall, I'm not sure the ad really did any kind of good at all. Many people still stayed at the mall instead of driving out to the west side to watch the show under much better conditions.
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-05-2002, 06:42 PM:
Just saw "Spiderman" in SDDS-8 at the aforementioned Regal here in Eugene. Very nice. A wall-o-sound. Curiously, I don't detect any of the "metallic" quality Brad notices in SDDS.I don't understand why Regal doesn't advertise it or at least denote "8-Channel Sound" in the newspaper ad here in Eugene. In last Thursday's LA Times Calendar section, there is a full-page ad for Spidey, with 26 SDDS-8 theaters identified (including the Cinerama Dome). All sound formats are specified in the Times' movie ads.
Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-05-2002, 07:14 PM:
Steve Guttag noticed that the pink noise in the SDDS processors are high frequency deficient, which would result in the "treble" being too prominent and thus sounding "harsh and metallic". I wonder if perhaps the Regal tech who EQ'd that auditorium had read that statement and adjusted accordingly?
Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 05-05-2002, 07:33 PM:
I dunno if it's intentional or an accident, but in any case the sound quality was on par with anything I heard in the big-city theatres on my trip to LA. It didn't have the gut-punch impact of the Dome, but the lows were still well-articulated and as you know from my rants, I like good lows. I don't have much tolerence for harsh ear-splitting punched-up highs. It's very fatiguing for one thing.