Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: More Star Wars B.S.

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-30-2002, 06:09 PM:

Despite George Lucas's best efforts to push digital projection, only 19 theaters will be showing his Star Wars: Episode II -- Attack of the Clones using digital projectors when it opens on May 16, Wired magazine reported on its website Monday. The 19 are: Harkins Arrowhead Cinemas 18 (Peoria, AZ); AMC Media Center 6 (Burbank, CA); Edwards Irvine Spectrum 21 Megaplex (Irvine, CA); El Capitan Theatre (Los Angeles, CA); Loews Century Plaza (Los Angeles, CA); AMC Mission Valley 20 (San Diego, CA); AMC 1000 Van Ness (San Francisco, CA); AMC Pleasure Island 24 (Lake Buena Vista, FL); AMC South Barrington 30 (South Barrington, IL); AMC Studio 30 (Olathe, KS); General Cinema Framingham 16 (Framingham, MA); Show Case Cinemas Randolph (Randolph, MA); Edgewater Multiplex Cinemas (Edgewater, NJ); AMC Empire 25 Theatres (New York); Clearview Ziegfeld Theatre (New York); Loews Cineplex E-Walk (New York); Cinemark at Valley View (Valley View, OH); Showcase Cinemas Springdale (Springdale, OH); Cinemark at Legacy (Plano, TX). Lucas has said that no theater will be allowed to show Episode III unless it is equipped with digital projectors.

On the last line. Then he better pay for every single one they put in. What an ass! Of course we know by then it will be on film too.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 04-30-2002, 06:32 PM:

I know of three theatres that are not on your list so, I think you are way off......

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-30-2002, 06:42 PM:

I'm with Bob on this one. I think that's a media gossip thing. If Episode II is only being released on 19 screens then that's pretty sad given the big push for digital. Plus that just makes the quoted threat about Episode III being released only to digital theaters extra foolish. On another thread someone quoted Lucas as saying Episode II could not be shown in DLP on a screen larger than 45 feet wide. That's truly sad, for a movie like Star Wars NEEDS a much bigger screen than that!

Let's just wait for Ted's announcement tomorrow with the official number.

Posted by Mark Ogden (Member # 43) on 04-30-2002, 07:38 PM:

It's very interesting that according to the list, both the AMC Empire 25 and the Loews E-walk will be running it, as they are two competing operations that are literally right across the street (42nd) from each other (albiet with two different digital projection systems). Wonder how that was arranged? I guess clearences aren't much of an issue in the DLP world. . . Moi? I'll be at the Ziegfeld watching it in Barco-vision.

I'd just like to say two words about Lucas' plans for episode three: my ass.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 04-30-2002, 07:57 PM:

Crap. Just crap. You can add to that list Cinema World 16 (Melbourne, FL), my new theater. As a matter of fact, our digital projector arrived today! Yay!

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 04-30-2002, 07:58 PM:

I have to agree it sounds like a low number to me too. I snagged that off of ShowbizData's web site and posted it quickly. I totaly forgot about the screen contest we had going. Sorry about that Brad and Ted.

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 04-30-2002, 08:11 PM:

On the first Digital Presentation I showed it on two screens that we 50 Feet wide. So am I to assume that as digital arrives, it arrives on a smaller screen?

Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 04-30-2002, 08:14 PM:

If Lucas is so worried about his movie's presentation being perfect, he should be concerning himself on the 99% of the theaters who will be running his movie on real film because that is what the majority of people will watch the movie on. I have film cleaners on every screen and run FilmGuard on every show. Because of this every movie that leaves my theater is flawless no matter how long it runs and he is welcome to swing by any day of the week and check it out for himself. Since digital is not up to the quality level of film yet and my films do not wear through use, the presentation at my theater will be superior to any digital presentation for Episode II. Sorry George, those are the facts.

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--"That's my story and i'm sticking to it!"--

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 04-30-2002, 08:29 PM:

Ethan, Amen

Let us pray.

Bow your head, George.

PS to Mark: See it at both E-Walk and Ziegfield and then let me know.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 04-30-2002, 09:42 PM:

It's pretty clear to me that whoever wrote that article just got a list of the DLP-equipped theatres and assumed that a) all such theatres would run episode 2 and b) there would be no more DLP installations between the date the list was created and opening night. Obviously, both of these assumptions are untrue.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 04-30-2002, 10:59 PM:

I agree with Scott. The El Capitan is HIGHLY unlikely to be showing the film, since the Chinese across the street is expected to get it (at least that's the theatre where those idiot drones have already lined up to buy tickets.

Isn't the request NOT to show the film on screens larger than 45 feet (if this is indeed true) a full admission that digital is NOT as good as film?

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 04-30-2002, 11:58 PM:

I can name 5 theatres not on the list. I know that there are some issues going on over at 20th Century Fox that might cause some things to go awry at the last moment - however these digital projectors are going in (or are already there) and Star Wars EPII is booked in Digital. So who knows????????? I know that the week of May 16th I will be watching SW EPII in DLP here in Las Vegas - and Las Vegas wasn't on the list.

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"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-01-2002, 12:12 AM:

Ken, I hope we hear more from you on your experiences -good or bad- with and about that thing.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 05-01-2002, 08:56 AM:

The Loews E-Walk is NOT playing Star Wars Episode 2 -- DLP or no DLP. Loews does not play 20th Century Fox product in Manhattan.

OTOH why didn't Lucasfilm and 20th arrange for DLP in the UA Battery Park Stadium 16? That theater reopens this Friday (5/3) -- it had been closed for almost 8 months after the collapse of the World Trade Center. Episode 2 will have its world premiere at the UA Battery Park Stadium as part of the Tribeca Film Festival.

I can easily tell that Wired is a sucker for Lucasfilm hype: The magazine referred to the now-defunct General Cinema chain.

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-01-2002, 10:22 AM:

I'll be sure to let you know how it goes. They haven't even unpacked the projector head yet, so I have no idea how anything works yet. I'll keep you informed.

Posted by Joe Beres (Member # 678) on 05-01-2002, 10:34 AM:

If any of you hear about EP II being shown in dlp in the Twin Cities Area, please elt me know. I would love to do a comparison between the

and film versions.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-01-2002, 10:37 AM:

I suspect the "reported" 45-foot limit is mostly an issue of current DLP-Cinema projectors not having enough screen luminance (AFAIK, the goal is currently 12 footlamberts) on larger screens. Remember, a 60 x 25 foot "scope" image requires almost TWICE the light of a 45 x 18.75 foot image. Many theatres have screens larger than 45 feet wide.

Bob Maar: I watched the Digital Cinema presentation of "Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace" several times each at both the Paramus NJ and Secaucus NJ theatres. I recall new screens had been installed, along with "beefed up" sound systems, personally supervised by Tom Lipiec of Lucasfilm. At the time, they were using the high-capacity (400 GB?) Pluto Raid Array that had relatively "mild" compression. My issues with the DLP-Cinema image quality were mostly those of pixel visibility, "jaggies", color gamut, tone scale, and black level.
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John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-01-2002, 12:18 PM:

Why is the goal 12 ft. lamberts? Isn't industry standard 16?

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-01-2002, 12:23 PM:

Ken asked: "Why is the goal 12 ft. lamberts? Isn't industry standard 16?"

When you project a film print, the "white" areas of the print actually absorb a little light, so 16 footlamberts "open gate" ends up as about 12 footlamberts on the screen. Experience has shown that a digital cinema projector set up to project a "white" at 12 footlamberts is the closest match for white level.

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 05-01-2002, 12:25 PM:

As I understand it, 12fl with DLP is equivalent to 16fl with film. The reason for this is that 16fl. is measured with no film in the gate; since film base material (polyester, acetate, nitrate) is slightly less than clear, there is some light loss even when running "clear" film. With DLP, the screen brightness is measured while projecting "white" light, which is equivalent to "clear" film.

Actually, the DLP presentations that I have seen have all been brighter than film projected at 16fl, which I suspect is partly a result of a lack of standards and partly a deliberate choice, since most people equate "brighter" with "better" (as with sound, where "louder" is usually thought to be "better").

Posted by Ken Lackner (Member # 1002) on 05-01-2002, 12:29 PM:

As a side point, I assume that when measuring the light with no film in the gate, you keep the projector running to a.) include the effects of the shutter when taking measurments and b.) avoid damage to the lens?

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This one time, at Projection Camp, I stuck a xenon bulb....

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 05-01-2002, 12:30 PM:

"Lucas has said that no theater will be allowed to show Episode III unless it is equipped with digital projectors."

Am I the only one who remembers that this is exactly the same threat that they used about episode two when episode one came out.
Better stomp your foot a little harder George

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 05-01-2002, 12:40 PM:

Ken asked: "I assume that when measuring the light with no film in the gate, you keep the projector running to a.) include the effects of the shutter when taking measurments and b.) avoid damage to the lens?"

Yes. Standard SMPTE 196M specifies: "Measurement of the screen luminance shall be made with the projector in normal operation (with shutter running), with its lens set at the focus position, but with no film in the aperture."

Even with the shutter running, with large lamps it is important to limit the time for "raw" radiant energy going through the lens, as some lenses may not be able to cope with the heat and be permanently damaged. In other words, take your measurements quickly, then let the lens cool before you do it again.