Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Exit signs that shine on screens!

This is topic Exit signs that shine on screens! in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 06-16-2002, 11:30 PM:

I'm posting this in Ground Level because it seems like the sort of thing the ground level people should take care of, or at least notice, but don't always seem to. I just sat through "Sum of All Fears" with red light from the EXIT signs shining onto BOTH sides of the screen! What really scares me is that this theater (Sacramento Downtown Plaza) has been open for about 9 years (UA owned it first, then was sold to Century 2 years ago), and possibly the exit signs have had that problem since the day it opened! One would think that the people who work there and see this every day would do SOMETHING to fix it! If they can't be moved, they could at least be turned down or have something put in to block the light from the screen (they weren't distracting to me otherwise). You have to also wonder who decided to put them there in the first place!
I just sent a note about this to the company through their website, asking them to let me know when this problem is fixed, but until then I won't go back to this theater- it's the first time I've been there, the place looks pretty nice besides that.

Posted by Jan Hackett (Member # 1231) on 06-16-2002, 11:47 PM:

that blows...maybe you could put lower wattage bulbs in the signs...

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Jan Hackett
Theater Operations Manager
Extreme Screen Dynatheater
NM Museum of Natural History Foundation

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 06-17-2002, 12:00 AM:

Jan said what i was thinking, we use a bulb bright enough so people can see them but too bright as they shine on the screen.------------------
Adam Fraser www.pinestheatre.com

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-17-2002, 12:12 AM:

Get the nuclear powered exit signs. They cost about 150 bucks, and last about 10 years, completely maintenance free. They can be obtained from an electrical contractor supply house.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 06-17-2002, 12:29 AM:

I prefer Paul's answer, but in a pinch you can run to the office supply store and purchase some of those cheap "book report covers" that bind together up to 50 pages and have a transparent cover tinted red or green. Just trim one or two of those to size and viola, the output is dimmed.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 06-17-2002, 12:55 AM:

We also have a problem with the exit sign brightness, but it isn't on the screen. If you sit in the back 7 rows, the rear sign casts shadows. I put a single piece of blank paper in the sign (they're LED signs, so there isn't a fire danger!), which dimmed it down enough to not be obnoxious, but was concerned about fire-code compliance. I don't think that they make special provisions or exceptions for theater auditoriums, and that they require a specific wattage bulb or brightness. I took the paper out for our annual inspection two days ago, just in case, and will put it back in after our re-inspection.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 06-17-2002, 06:38 AM:

Also most signs use 2 lamps rewire them in serries to drop the intensity

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 06-17-2002, 09:42 AM:

I had to green ligh shining over the right hand side of the screen for Spiderman.

It's a problem inherant with exits right next to the screen I suppose.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-17-2002, 10:14 AM:

Usually the problem is simply that the sign shines light on the screen. In many cases, it is possible to build a black baffle or tilt the sign to keep its light off the screen, without having to dim the sign and compromise safety. The audience NEEDS to see the sign in case of emergency, the screen does not:
Contrast Killers

------------------
John P. Pytlak, Senior Technical Specialist
Worldwide Technical Services, Entertainment Imaging
Research Labs, Building 69, Room 7525A
Rochester, New York, 14650-1922 USA
Tel: +1 585 477 5325 Cell: +1 585 781 4036 Fax: +1 585 722 7243
e-mail: john.pytlak@kodak.com
Web site: http://www.kodak.com/go/motion

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 06-17-2002, 10:24 AM:

I'm betting that there's some fire code that dictates the wattage or output of those exit signs. Probably it would be better to put a baffle up rather than to limit their output. There might be legal issues with altering them

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Greg Mueller
Amateur Astronomer, Machinist, Filmnut
http://www.muellersatomics.com/

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 06-17-2002, 11:30 AM:

Greg, there is, as well as the color. In Mount Vernon, the MVFD would not allow lighted red signs for emergency exits. They had to be green.

There is another style used, it is full of green LED's. Those things are bright!

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 06-17-2002, 12:18 PM:

We had the same problem at the theatre I just left--the signs in some auditoriums were mounted flat on the side walls close to the screen causing light contamination. Las Vegas and Clark County fire codes mandate a minimum wattage so nothing can be done about that, though radioactive is acceptable. Red or green is fine here. But baffling or using a wedge mount to angle the offending sign away from the screen works well. One sign we couldn't do anything about though--it was mounted behind the screen!

Idjit architects...

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 06-17-2002, 03:11 PM:

When I was a projectionist in Denver for United Artists I was sent to Sacramento to train the Projectionists for the UA Downtown Plaza.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 06-17-2002, 03:34 PM:

Yes, Paul - the architects who designed the Neonopolis 14 were obviously smoking something when they put those designs through.

I know that most of the design flaws were carried over from the original Mann theatre design from a few years ago. I have never been to a Mann Theatre - but this one would have been a theatre manager's nightmare. Actually ---- it still is.

Although 95% of the customers love it - so go figure.

Dennis Benjamin
GM Crown Neonopolis 14
Las Vegas, NV

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"Running through life at 24 frames per second"

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 06-17-2002, 03:44 PM:

My bet is that if the fire marshall would have a problem with you dimming the exit sign, he might have a problem with it being moved or partially blocked or filtered. The Nuclear signs are good. We used them at the theater I was at. No worries about bulbs or batteries going bad, and less light output. On top of that, the fire marshall (at least the ones down in Dade County) approve them.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 06-17-2002, 03:44 PM:

Common sense SHOULD say that if anything is affecting the picture onscreen, SOMETHING should be done to fix it! If the laws say an Exit sign has to be there, but if it is shining on the screen, there should be some way to comply with the law but not have it affect the picture. I haven't heard of any laws around here requiring a certain brightness or anything; a place I used to work at has those "nuclear" Exit signs which are very dim, I liked those the best- the theater I was at yesterday seemed to have these in BACK of the theater but the LED's in front! (BTW, an exit BEHIND the screen? Don't they have problems with people trying to take the speakers out with them?

)
How would anyone running a theater NOT notice something like this though? This might be a case of paying attention to keeping the lobby nice and clean but not even setting foot in the auditoriums (I know there are some managers like that out there!)

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 06-17-2002, 03:57 PM:

Remember, in an emergency, the audience may need to see the EXIT signs through smoke and in a panic. NEVER compromise safety.

But a sign at the front of the auditorium can usually be baffled to not shine on the screen, and yet be clearly and fully visible to lead the audience to safety.

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 06-17-2002, 06:11 PM:

I use 15 watt bulbs near the front & throw a piece of lighting gel on the side nearest the screen. Works well

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 06-17-2002, 08:51 PM:

I take a more cold approach...if you don't know how to fasten a seat belt or can't find your way out in a fire without a bright exit sign...it's time to thin the herd.

Steve

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"Old projectionists never die, they just changeover!"

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 06-17-2002, 09:01 PM:

I've found that ushers replacing burned-out EXIT sign bulbs often
used bulbs with much higher wattage than required, simply because
they were in the stockroom. Those old metal boxes were a pain to
service, requiring ladder, screwdriver and flashlight. To reduce
the frequency of service, I recommended using 135V bulbs in
a 110V-125V line. That way they burn dimmer but many times longer.
Also, cleaning the glass of decades of dust and grime increases the visibility with dimmer bulbs.

The remarkable thing is how often nobody reported (or even noticed?)
unlit signs or missing fire extinguishers. Since they were visible
from the booth, it usually fell to the projectionist to inform the
manager in time to save the theatre from violation citations when
next the inspector called.

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 06-17-2002, 10:15 PM:

Altering "safety" devices and/or dictated codes is an invitation to a lawsuit. Publicly announcing such alteration is not only making the individual and theater liable, but just plain stupid! Me thinks some people need to edit their posts.....

>>> Phil

Posted by Kris Brunton (Member # 432) on 06-18-2002, 09:56 AM:

In some municipalities we were able to have a thin black shield placed between the exit sign and the screen. This helped to keep the light off the screen. We were in no way allowed to change intensity or alter position of the lights due to fire regulations. The shield attached to the wall beside the exit sign.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 07-02-2002, 01:52 PM:

I was sent 2 passes and a note saying they are "looking into solving this problem", so we'll see what happens!

Posted by Craig Hanham (Member # 1010) on 07-03-2002, 12:53 AM:

as david said. Use low wattage bulbs and lighting gel. If there is a problem with spill onto screen use a peice of aluminium foil to make a mask.
Thats my easy fix.