Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sony Takes a Page From the Disney Playbook

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 08-19-2002, 12:39 PM:

Sony has announced that for the Labor Day weekend they are going to 're-issue' Men In Black 2 and Stuart Little 2 together to the first runs as a package combo. Well at least they are both short!

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-19-2002, 01:24 PM:

Sony did the same thing last year with "The Animal" and "America's Sweethearts." These are two examples of true combo features, where you get to see both for the price of one admission.

Disney's Labor-Day re-releases have been simply two films sharing a screen, a kiddie filck for matinees, and an adult flick in the evening.

In 2000, it was Dinosaur/Gone in 60 Seconds.
In 2001, it was Atlantis/Pearl Harbor.

AFAIK, there is not one planned for this year (the only possible combination would be Lilo & Stitch/Bad Company ... but Bad Company has already hit subrun houses.)

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-19-2002, 04:46 PM:

Well golly gee kids, for those of you who weren't around then here's a little trip back in time for you: Up until about the late sixties or early seventies theatres always ran a "double bill". The show traditionally started at 7:00pm on weekdays with the main feature followed by the second feature (after an intermission) then the main feature was repeated. The features did not necessarily come from the same distributor and a patron could stay all night for one admission price. And this was in the days of "attended booths"! On weekends the show started at 1:00pm and ran continuously until midnight or 1:00am. Often the second feature was a "B" but frequently two "A"s ran. There was always a cartoon, trailers and, up until the late sixties a "newsreel" (Universal was the last to go). I have believed for a long time that the customer is being cheated when there are only trailers (vibrating the walls with their excessive volume)and one feature (poorly lit and focused with fuzzy edges because no one bothered to clean the gate).

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 08-19-2002, 06:29 PM:

Someone told me that it was going to be MIB II and Spiderman. who knows.

Posted by Fred Strausbaugh (Member # 713) on 08-19-2002, 09:11 PM:

I also was told today by my booker. That is was MIB II and Spiderman.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-20-2002, 10:40 AM:

A double-up of MIIB and Spider-Man would make sense. Stuart Little 2 was #11 last weekend and is still in first run.

OTOH you might not have to run such a double-up. For Labor Day weekend The Good Girl will go semi-wide and Possession will be at least semi-wide. Those 2 pictures have their national arthouse break this Friday.

Mike S: Disney re-released Pearl Harbor and Atlantis last year for Labor Day but not as a combo. Also, Sony re-released The Animal and America's Sweethearts in a double-up due to the events of 9/11.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-20-2002, 11:09 AM:

Yes - it is Spiderman/MIBII. I misread the original post (didn't notice the Stuart Little thing).

Charles - re-read my post ... I was explaining the difference between Sony's "true combo" and Disney's simple double-up on a screen.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-20-2002, 11:24 AM:

Mike S: A lot of theaters got Atlantis back but not Pearl Harbor. A lot of theaters got Pearl Harbor back but not Atlantis.

Also, The Animal and America's Sweethearts was a makeshift double-up due to 9/11. Search for "Big Trouble" and "Glitter" in Ground Level.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-20-2002, 02:51 PM:

It must have varied from circuit to circuit. In my circuit, we were issued one movie number for the 2 of them ... and the grosses were reported for the combo, not the individual movie (Animal/America's Sweethearts). In addition, you were allowed to watch both movies for the price of one.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 08-20-2002, 05:06 PM:

I remember running a Hope Floats/Dr. Dolittle combo (FOX) when those were about to hit sub-run. They meant it as a double-feature, and we still had both prints, so we just spliced them together and ran it as one. Other theaters kept them seperate, and sold tickets to both films (if you came for one, you could stay for the other). Unfortunately, turnout was horrible.

=TMP=

Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 08-21-2002, 04:02 PM:

The doubling which was done by Disney for the last 2 Labor Day weekends was not intended to give the public a 2 for 1 price break.

In each case (Pearl Harbor near the 200 Million mark) and Gone In 60 Seconds (near the 100 Million mark) the studio wanted to bolster the respective gross of these pictures to reach these platform goals. All the gross from both pictures shown on the Disney screen was directed to be reported to the picture they whose gross needed to boost. For prestige reasons I suspect Sony needs to get MIB2 over the $200 Million mark.

The same sort of thing goes on when it comes to reporting Drive-in figures. When an ozoner presents two top ten pictures on the same bill both of the pictures are reported (for public consumption) as having produced the full gross (regardless of how it is divided for payment percentages.)

It is always wise to remember that Hollywood invented creative accounting. Just ask Art Buchwald.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-21-2002, 05:33 PM:

Jonathan, you are correct. The turnout as posted on Box Office Mojo reflects that reporting method.

Mike S, I stand corrected.

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 08-24-2002, 03:11 PM:

I going to hang on to MIB2 with Mr Deeds. Another Screen I am hanging on to AP Goldmember/Spiderman. Deeds/MIB2 still top grossing after 8 weeks in a town with a population of 6000.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-24-2002, 05:57 PM:

The difference here is that these double features are put together by the studio. They paired the titles, not the exhibitor. As Robert rightly pointed out, exhibition creating interesting double bills was a standard way of booking for decades, with the exhibitor making the deals and picking A & B pictures taylored to his demographics. I once booked a DF of YELLOW SUBMARINE and NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD -- billed it as "Something to sing about; something to scream about." Did fantastic business. The distribs routinely would split the percentages on these doubles; it was the way business was done.

Today iIn the arthouse end of the business, we still are able to get DF splits, but it takes a lot more wheeling and dealing and the younger bookers are not at all happy about it because they never experienced Double Features as a staple in the majority of subrun, neighborhood theatres. Now it's an "event" when a DF shows up in a multiplex. And the only place these young'ns have ever seen cartoons has been on Saturday morning TV. One once asked me quite perplexed, "But why do you want to show a cartoon before the feature?" My answer was, "Because the audience claps and whistles and shouts 'Yaaaay' when I do." And if you think THAT confuses them, just ask them about Newsreels. I swear, it's like talking to people from another planet.

Frank

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-24-2002, 10:40 PM:

Hopefully, with what I am planning, I can revive the format Frank (well, with the possible exception of the newsreel, which I may try to book for its historic value). While I will install the latest film technology I can get I sometimes think today's young exhibitors (and some customers) are more caught up in the technology (of both production and exhibition) than they are the entertainment value of the program.

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 08-24-2002, 11:55 PM:

[I sometimes think today's young exhibitors (and some customers) are more caught up in the technology (of both production and exhibition) than they are the entertainment value of the program.]

Bob, you said a mouthful for sure. As I read the posts here in film-tech I often think that many of the people that hang out here aren't aware that we are in the entertainment business. New technology is great, but is not the all encompassing end in itself. I would hate to see the industry stagnate, but to think that the moviegoing public goes primarily because of that technology I believe is a mistake.

People go to be entertained. That means a good story along with good production values, and excellent presention with some showmanship thrown in. And showmanship is not presenting the preshow slides and 6 to 10 trailers all in frame and in focus. It's the way the houselights are dimmed through multiple color changes with the curtain opening to reveal the theatre logo without showing any blank white screen. It's running the cartoon and then the trailers with the appropriate film daters so the public knows which picture is next and what day it's opening. Frank is so correct... people love cartoons. I run a cartoon as often as I can before my feature followed by the old "lets go to the lobby" snipe. The audience often sings along with it, and they absolutely love the cartoons. When I have a show that goes over 2 hours I don't run a cartoon, and people often ask me... why no cartoon tonight?

Some here have said in the past that any theatre not equipped with stereo sound doesn't deserve to be open any longer. I love stereo sound, but I can still enjoy a movie without it, and I know many people who agree. I have been in many theatres where the stereo wasn't working properly and found that much worse then not having it. As a matter of fact if there isn't any, I don't even miss it.

The bottom line is that most people just want to be entertained, not bedazzled by technology. The new technology should be just like any other part of the theatre going experience. It shouldn't be obvious, it shouldn't grab you and shake you... it should help to make the overall experience enjoyable in such a way so that when you leave you know you had a really good time, but aren't exactly sure why.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-25-2002, 03:18 PM:

Hey Richard!

Are you sure you're not a lot older than that picture? You sound like an "old showman" to me. At least you've got a handle on what exhibition is all about (now if others in your generation would only get a clue). Good luck and good fortune friend.

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 08-25-2002, 11:47 PM:

Hey Bob,

I've been reading your posts for the past month since you came aboard and have thought several times that we have a lot in common.

I don't think it's my (or our)generation that needs to get a clue. We've done it. It's the several generations that have come after us that never had the opportunity to learn from the old master showman. I don't think we can really blame them as they don't know any other way. We were, or at least I was, very lucky to have come into the business at a time when the true showman managers of the great movie palaces were still around. I had the pleasure to work with and learn from a number of great showman in several magnificent 1800 to 3000 seat downtown theatres. Who do the young entrants into the industry today have to learn from? They must learn from the people that brought about the multiplexing of American through the 70s and 80s which was the low point in theatre design and management. The theatres that emerged during the 2nd half of the 90s through today are a vast improvement over what was created the two previous decades, but the attitude in management proceedures and lack of concern about projection still leave many of these theatres sorely lacking when it comes to patron satisfaction. Samuel Lionel "Roxy" Rothafel,(who?) one of Americas greatest showman use to say... "Don't give people what they want, give them something better". Todays management seem to believe the following... don't give people anything more then you absolutely need to.

There are no schools that teach theatre management or history that I know of, and most of the old showman are gone. Therefore it's impossible for these new young people to learn the basics of showmanship 101. Well not exactly, but they have to want to do the reseach to learn. The information IS out there. I don't mean to suggest that todays new theatre complexes must be run exactly like the movie palaces of old, but that knowing the history of our industry, is the basis to understanding what our industry is all about, where it came from, and how it got to where we are today?
Having a full understanding of our past helps us in the present, and to prepare for the future. I would suggest that any one going into or who is relatively new to our business (been in it under 10 years)should find a copy of Ben Halls 1961 book "The Best Remaining Seats". It could very well be considered the bible of the history of the theatre business. Also go to the library or bookstore and get copies of the biographies of some of the great showman such as Sid Grauman, Marcus Loew, William Fox, Balaban & Katz, and of course Roxy Rothafel. Over the years numerous books on theatre management have been published. I have some from 1910, 1927, 1939 and so on. I think I have at least one for every decade through the early 90s. Even though many things have changed, the basics of showmanship remain the same, but are not carried out to their fullest today. To you young people in the business today, I challenge you to seek the knowledge and desire to carry on our business to new heights. There is so much more that was done in the past, and can be done today and in the future, to improve the theatre going experience.

Let's take the new technologies along with good old time showmanship and make the movie going experience better then it's ever been. It can be done... we just need the desire and dedication to make it happen.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-26-2002, 12:40 AM:

Amen Richard, amen!

Bob
The Old Showman

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-26-2002, 01:38 AM:

Surprisingly, it was AMC that briefly revived the cartoon before the show format in the early 90's. A lot of old WB cartoons got a new lease on theatrical life due to this program. I think they continued this for a couple of years. New prints were struck and windowboxed to allow for the OAR.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-27-2002, 01:28 AM:

FYI - Looks like Lilo & Stitch is being re-issued to first-runs for matinee shows this week. No particular second picture on the screen, though.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-28-2002, 09:25 AM:

Mike S is correct: BV brings back Lilo & Stitch this weekend for matinees only.

Also, Miramax is re-releasing The Importance of Being Earnest and putting Tadpole into megaplexes to get rid of the stench left by Full Frontal. Sony has apparently canceled that planned MIIB/Spider-Man double-up.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 08-28-2002, 01:25 PM:

Pardon my ignorance, but when films are doubled up like say a Spider Man/MIB 2 combo how are the grosses reported? For instance, if the before mentioned combo were to gross 2 million dollars, would it be counted as 1 million each or could they somehow both claim the entire sum as their own?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-28-2002, 01:58 PM:

If it's a double feature (2 movies for the price of one) then you report and pay as one title.

If it's a shared screen (two movies on one screen at different times) then you report and pay each title separately.

It doesn't really matter to the film company because they're getting one check from you anyway...but if the two movies are being tracked separately then they'd want separate boxoffice reports.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 09-01-2002, 02:35 PM:

Add to the list of re-issues. Buena Vista is re-issuing Bad Company on 9/6.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-03-2002, 05:48 PM:

That double-up of Spider-Man and MIIB is on for this weekend. The Reading Cinemas in Manville NJ is getting 'em both back -- and the showtimes hint at a double feature.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 09-03-2002, 08:01 PM:

Sony Pictures is running national TV ads for a MIB II/SPIDERMAN double feature, specifically mentioning seeing both movies for only one ticket.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-05-2002, 03:29 PM:

Michael, If you mean, when they report those numbers to the media --"SIGNS made sixteen gazillion dollars in the first half hour," kind of thing, you can be sure they will claim the same gross for each picture, just like you can be sure they fudge the numbers all the time (who can check?) to make it sound like their picture is doing great business. Our culture is such that people seem to place value on those numbers (years ago you never heard grosses reported as if they were an indicator of the quality of the film). Now that is the be-all and end-all, so of course the studio's marketing machine is going to twist and hammer those numbers any way they can (outright lying is not beyond them -- just check out the "quotes" game) to make their picture look like it's hitting big. What a great bit of luck to be able to claim the same grosses for two different pictures!

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 09-05-2002, 07:18 PM:

I pretty much figured that this was the case. It wouldn't really make sense any othere way. So of course they are trying to boost MIB 2 numbers with Spiderman. I wonder if this could backfire on the studio? For instance Mr. Smith and Mr. Jones can point to these inflated numbers and demand more money for yet another sequel.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-06-2002, 01:32 AM:

In actually, that is how top actors began commanding those incredible multimillion dollar salaries -- I remember in an interview Marlon Brando, who as one of the first to ask and get multimillion dollar contracts, was asked how could he justify asking two million dollars to do LAST TANGO IN PARIS. He replied somthing like, well, I used to ask for a percentage, but it always seemed that no matter if a picture did bad business or did exceptionally good business, it always seemed to make just enough so no matter what percentage you negotiated, in the end you always got the same take-home pay. The interviewer looked a little startled at his implied accusation and asked how that can happen. Brando answered, "Well, they keep the books."

In the same vein, two of the producers of ALIEN were on one of the talks and they were asked how did it feel to have such a phenominal hit. They looked at each other and feigned surprise. "Is it a hit?" they asked. The host chided them saying "What do you mean, "is it a hit, of course it's a hit." One said, well, yah, we THINK it's a hit because we drive by the National Theatre on Broadway and see their last show is a 3am show and at 3am there are lines around the block, so we get all excited and the next morning call Fox and ask how good we are doing, they tell us, 'no, no, it's bringing in the crowds but it's not making all that much money.'" "How could this be?," we ask ourselves and then we find out that no matter what the gross income from the film is, it seems that Fox's marketing and distribution cost to us always just about match the ticket sales income."

It's called creative accounting -- more than likely some of those execs wound up working for Enron.

Frank

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 09-06-2002, 11:19 AM:

Ehhh, I don't think they can suddenly say that now MIB has grossed over $400 million just because of a short release of it in a double bill with Spider-Man. That would stretch credibility even for a film company.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 09-06-2002, 12:01 PM:

No but if anyone were to buy tickets to see Spiderman and leave without staying to see MIB that Spiderman ticket will count toward MIB's grosses.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 09-06-2002, 01:01 PM:

A local theater, (same one showing the Indiana Jones trilogy) is running Spiderman and MIB2 seperate, in that you buy a ticket for one and can stay for the other. Unless of course, you go to the last showing of MIB2, then you're SOL. Their showtime listings don't indicate anything about a double-feature, only their phone recording.

=TMP=

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 09-06-2002, 01:21 PM:

We have it advertise as a double feature everywhere except our website. But yea I am just waiting for a smartass customer to show up for the last show and make noise because he cannot see both with the usual threats of suing us for false advertisement. I should get a pool going here as to just when this will happen.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-06-2002, 06:58 PM:

The stack ads confirm it today: "See two of the biggest movies ... with one ticket."

If Spider-Man and MIIB do well as a double feature they might be held over. Fox has pulled The Transporter, which was to have opened next week.

Mike S also got it correct again: BV has re-released Bad Company though nobody in Manhattan or Northern New Jersey got it back. The Regal Barn Plaza in Doylestown PA is the closest theater to me with Bad Company -- in a double-up with yet another re-release (The Importance of Being Earnest).

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 09-06-2002, 09:00 PM:

Word on the street is, with Bad Company, they only need $200,000 to get to the next breaking point on ancillary negotiations. The film rental terms on the re-issue are almost non-existant, and BV is paying for the shipping of the prints.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-06-2002, 09:06 PM:

Maybe the box office should have a sign in the window saying "Starting time of the last double-feature show this evening is _____PM. Tickets purchased after that time are not for a double-feature."

Cinemark and Regal are both carrying this double-feature here and advertising it. Only Regal shows the individual start times for each movie by name. Cinemark has 2 titles listed together as a double-feature and a list of show times but no indication which movie starts at what time.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 09-07-2002, 09:49 AM:

Just looked at the showtimes for today. There is a strange combination of ways different theaters are handling this "double feature":

--Most of the Regals have showtimes for each film, with an extra "10:xx" showing of Men In Black II, not followed by Spiderman

--Some theaters list showtimes for both films, but work it so if you come see Spiderman you stay for Men In Black II (as Sony is advertizing it).

--One theater has it set up so that you come see Men In Black II and can stay for Spiderman. There's also an extra "10:xx" show of Spiderman.

--And one, yes only one theater actually lists it as a "Double Feature" with the showtimes for the double feature, not the individual films.

Have people forgotten what a "double feature" is?? It seems some theaters have added in about 30 minutes of cleaning time between the two features! I would be pretty upset if I had to wait that long for the next movie on my "one ticket" to start. IMHO, they should treat it as a single 3 1/2 hour feature. That way, some theaters can fit 3 double-feature showings in one day and get rid of the stupid oddball showing at 10:00.

=TMP=

**EDIT**: Just found a theater that's playing a full run of Spiderman and NOT playing Men In Black II. I'd hate to answer the phone at that place...

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 09-07-2002, 11:49 AM:

Clarification

Cinemark's showtimes are for a complete "double feature". The last time listed would be the last show you could buy a ticket for and see a double feature.

Regal is listing all the showtimes for both films but not indicating when the start of the last double-feature would be.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 09-07-2002, 11:58 AM:

The Arclight cinema in Hollywood is the only theatre indicating in the main ad in the LA Times as Buy a ticket for MIB2 and stay as our guest to see Spiderman. I think that double feature may be a problem for that theatre since they have reserved seats.

I remember the days of the double features from the late 60's-early 70's when theatres scheduled only FIVE minutes between each show! Back then of course, people came and went whenever they felt like. There was actually a second run locally that oftentimes srtared the first Sat. morning show halfway through the movie (change-over days) to make the scheduling balance out to the evening schedule. I complained once (I was only a kid then) and I was told not to worry, because I could always stay and see the beginning again after the next feature (showtimes were not regularily advertised back in those days.)

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 09-07-2002, 09:57 PM:

Business hasn't been too bad for the Double Feature about what I'd expected. When I did the film schedule I started with the last show time (9:00 Spiderman) and worked my way back with the films having a 15 minute break inbetween. We haven't had any problems yet with an exception of a couple of customers concession items getting thrown away inbetween shows (hey the only other option would be not to clean that auditorum all day). So far so good.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-11-2002, 02:45 PM:

As I hinted at earlier, the double feature will get held over for another week.

Spider-Man and MIIB did $2.1 million+ as a twin bill for #9 in a slow weekend. Sony is not counting the double feature's gross toward the individual gross for either picture.

The AMC Hamilton and several Philadelphia-area Regals also get The Bourne Identity back this Friday. The Bourne Identity is ohthisclose to turning a profit on its US release.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 09-11-2002, 09:34 PM:

Charles -

This weekend will be weekend #3 for Bourne Identity at my subrun.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 09-12-2002, 03:26 PM:

I was kind of wondering about that. Do the film companies pull movies from the subruns if they plan on re-releasing them at the first run houses?

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 09-12-2002, 07:29 PM:

It all depends on the distributor.

Universal, New Line, and Fox all do market-by-market subrun. In other words, when it comes off of all first run screens in your market, the subruns can open it.

Sony, Paramount, Buena Vista, and Warner Brothers all have national sub-run dates. The distributor picks a date, and all subruns nationally receive the picture on that date, regardless of whether it is still showing first-run in that market.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-13-2002, 11:01 AM:

Mike S: I should have made myself clearer. Earlier post edited to reflect this.