Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Ice Machine - Pounds Per Day Requirements?

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 01-09-2003, 03:38 PM:

As we begin to look for the remaining items to finish out the concessions area of our theatre, we're totally lost when it comes to deciding how big of an ice machine to purchase.

All of the machines we've looked at are rated with a "pounds per day capacity". How much ice are some of you going through in a night, and how big of a machine do you have?

We've seen names like, Scotsman, Manitowoc, etc... is one brand any beter than the another... if so why?

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 01-09-2003, 04:17 PM:

Barry,

Hoshizaki is the best ice machine out from what I've heard. If you'd like, I can get you in touch with a local dealer here in Myrtle Beach that sells Hoshi's acorss the country. From what I gather he has prices better than some of the reps can quote, due, in part, to volume sales.

Let me know.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-09-2003, 04:28 PM:

Ours is a Manitowoc. We got the version where the condenser unit is separate and mounted on the roof. That reduces the heat load in the building and seems to make the ice machine more efficient (read "fast"). I'll check, but it seems ours has something like a 600 lb bin. The machine fills it from empty within about 20 hours. Other versions are available that have dual stackable units, if you really need the extra horsepower.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-09-2003, 06:47 PM:

Manitowoc is to ice machines as Christie is to platters. Good stuff.

That said, we have had a Scotsman for approx. 8 years and have had no problems except having to replace the pump motor last year, about a $120 bill.

Now here might be an interesting debate....do you go with "cube" ice or "shaved" ice? The Pepsi guys told me that cubed ice makes for better tasting soda, because it doesn't melt as fast. On the other hand, kids tend to throw the cubes at each other...and on yet another hand, shaved ice shoots great through straws. So after thinking it over, I decided to go with "better quality soda" and we got a cuber. They are also less breakdown-prone, I'm told...no moving parts in ours, except the afore-mentioned pump.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-09-2003, 10:20 PM:

Never had a problem with a Manitowoc. Just make sure you have, like with any ice machine, a water filter installed on the water line feeding the machine.

Most dealers should be able to tell you the size of machine you need based on the number of drinks per hour you plan to sell.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-10-2003, 04:19 AM:

I don't think you could go wrong with either one Manitowoc or Scotsman machines.

As far as capacity is concerned, that can be a tough call. A 600-pound head might be OK for a 5 or 6 plex (as it was for us) but in some areas, it may not be. Follow Daryl's advice, add some more poundage to it for a safety cushion, and you should be OK.

Whatever you do, make absolutely certain you use water filters on them. Without filters, the evaporator plates won't last more that 5 to 10 years before they are ruined.

Air-cooled machines are becoming quite popular, as long as they are not placed in the candy storage room. Seems like water-cooled machines are not as popular as they used to be - because water rates are going higher and higher.

[ 01-10-2003, 01:32 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-10-2003, 06:01 PM:

quote:
Air-cooled machines are becoming quite popular, as long as they are not placed in the candy storage room. Seems like water-cooled machines are not as popular as they used to be...

No kidding! Some brain trust decided to install our original Frigidaire sheet-cuber in our candy room. Before we installed A/C in the place, it got up to 80 degrees before noon. By evening, the heat from the sun was just coming through the other side of the concrete blocks. Add to that the heat load provided by all the other refrigeration equipment in there & we had three major problems on our hands... One was that all our chocolate had to be put in the cooler at night... two was that our ice machine only managed a couple of inches new ice for a whole day's work... and three was the cranky people in our building... staff and customers!

Putting in the new Manitowoc flat ended our ice problems (yes, we did install it OUTSIDE the candy room!). We have hit bottom only once, and I could have prevented that by icing up the fountain heads earlier. Otherwise, this thing is an ice making monster... and it puts no heat in the building... something our new a/c system really likes! [thumbsup]

Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 01-10-2003, 06:21 PM:

What about the economics of commercially-sold bagged ice versus the investment and wear and tear of an ice machine? Does an ice machine make sense for every drive-in theatre? [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-10-2003, 06:36 PM:

In a word, yes!

In more words... buying an appropriately sized machine makes economical sense. Add up all the time spent going somewhere to buy ice everyday, plus the cost of the ice itself. Then the cost of running out of ice -- some people won't buy fountain pop without ice in it.

Some drive-ins may do fine with a countertop ice dispenser, others will need a much larger machine if they are busy throughout the week.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-10-2003, 06:47 PM:

Tip o' the day: be careful where you install the ice machine. A flooded manager's office is not a pretty sight. (Yes, I've seen it happen. The machine was old and had not been well maintained.)

Note, also, that some types of soda machines have built-in ice dispensers and that these usually require that they have ice in them at all times to keep the syrup cold, so you will need extra ice in addition to whatever you will be using for drinks at the concession stand.

Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 01-10-2003, 07:25 PM:

While I am not sure of pounds per day my scotsman puts out I have learned it is better to have one that is too big. We have a large undercounter ice bin we keep filled in addition the the pop machine that needs ice to keep the pop cold. Then there is the large bin under the ice machine approx waist high. I have never run out of ice even when the 20 year old scotsman quits working for what ever reason and it take me a few day to get to the theatre and another few to get parts. The one i have has water cooled compresser (well water not city) The discharged water goes out the backdoor and keep our frog/salamander population happy

Tim
Starlite Drive-In

Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 01-10-2003, 08:08 PM:

I've just been through the "ice machine shopping" process.

Jason mentioned the Hoshizaki. They are good machines, but there are no replacement parts or experienced service people for that brand in my area. Consider that same factor even in making the decision between Manitowoc or Scotsman. Your local dealer may or may not stock parts for both.

The comments about cubes vs. flakes are very true. Flakers will need more service over time than the cubers.

I replaced a 15-year old Scotsman flaker with a new 750 lb. water-cooled Scotsman cuber for our 5-plex. We've got ice to spare.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-10-2003, 08:33 PM:

Any water-cooled head is fine, but they can be very expensive to operate because of the cooling water used. It just simply goes down the drain.

However, if you don't have a suitable place to install an air-cooled machine, then the water-cooled machine is the way to go. The air-cooled machines need lots of air to breath, and if they are left to operate in a small room with no adequate air exchange, they could go into high pressure overload and shut themselves down. Or, they can simply become very inefficient.

Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 01-10-2003, 08:41 PM:

We were limited to a very confined space, and needed the water cooling.

Posted by Jerry D. Cox (Member # 701) on 01-10-2003, 11:39 PM:

Barry Get A Manitowoc It is the best out now,An get A new one,Air cooled will work good just make sure you don't put it to close to A wall,Barry give me A call an I will give you some info on the one that I have,You will only need A 600lb.bin with A 600lb.turn over in about 20 to 24hrs.also make sure you put in A dran were you want the mch. to set.

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 01-11-2003, 12:13 AM:

If you get either a Manitowac or a Scotsman, GEMLINE makes a full line of water pump rebuild kits if you want to rebuild the pumps yourself. Many refrigeration companies service these brands & stock parts.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-11-2003, 02:45 AM:

Barry, with a shaved-ice machine you can also serve sno-cones. A very low-cost, high-profit item.

Justin, you'll go through ice very quickly, even with a small theatre. When I managed the Sky-Vue, we had two big Scotsman units with bins that went nearly all the way to the floor. Whenever we had a big crowd, we would run them both out of ice before the night was over! Then we made a mad dash for the convenience store.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-11-2003, 11:53 AM:

quote:
...from Justin:
What about the economics of commercially-sold bagged ice versus the investment and wear and tear of an ice machine? Does an ice machine make sense for every drive-in theatre?

Absolutely!
A 10 pound bag retails up here for about a buck fifty, not including any sales taxes. That works out to about $90 worth of ice to fill 600 pound bin once. Add that to your time and vehicle expenses & you can buy a really nice ice machine pretty darned fast! Even a decent Manitowoc can be found in the $2000 range, not counting installation costs.

... not to mention that the cheap part of you will go nuts watching unused ice melt & go down the drain!

... though, watering the salamanders is kinda creative... [Smile]

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-11-2003, 08:58 PM:

I *hate* shaved ice in soft drinks. [Mad]

I will go out of my way to avoid takeout places that use shaved ice, even if their food is good. Trivial, yes, but there you have it. [Razz]

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 01-11-2003, 09:26 PM:

A third option is crushed ice, aka nuggets. I had a Scottsman at one theater that did nuggets. It sat next to a Hoshizaki cuber that I never had to work on for five years. No, wait. I had to replace a circuit board once. The Scottsman was replaced with an identical model after about nine years of use.

Posted by Jacob Huber (Member # 1138) on 01-12-2003, 02:18 AM:

From the Superior Products catalog:

Daily Usage
Restaurant ............. 5 lbs. per seat or 1.7 lbs per customer
Fast Food .............. 7.4 lbs. per seat or .9 lbs. per customer

They don't have references for cinemas, but this could be a pretty good reference point. The catalog has heads that will produce anywhere from 80 lbs. per day to 1880 lbs. per day and carry Scotsman, Manitowac, and Hoshizaki.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 01-12-2003, 06:50 AM:

Hoshizaki is a great ice machine. Mine is 12 years old now ... and I've NEVER had to have it repaired.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-12-2003, 02:54 PM:

quote:
Daily Usage
Restaurant ............. 5 lbs. per seat or 1.7 lbs per customer
Fast Food .............. 7.4 lbs. per seat or .9 lbs. per customer

Yah... that might be a bit on the high side, & scaled for a full-time operation. Granted, we're in the Northwest, so Summertime heat isn't as large a factor as it might be elsewhere... but we can put 850 cars in this place & our 600 pounder does the job fine, even in Summer. A Manitowoc has such a good recovery rate that seeing the bin go down by half is unusual around here, even on busy nights.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-12-2003, 04:56 PM:

Well, Manitowoc did build a nice icemaker. What do you expect? That factory was within walking distance from where I lived in Manitowoc, Wisconsin as a teen-ager.

Edit:

Seriously, of all the people who I know in the food service industry, I only had one person say the Manitowoc cuber was no good. It died after 5 years of service. I should add this: The reason it died was because there was no water filter on the machine, and the water ruined the evaporator plate.

[ 01-12-2003, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Paul G. Thompson ]

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-12-2003, 07:46 PM:

quote:
from Paul T:
Well, Manitowoc did build a nice icemaker...
We (Manitowoc) built cranes, too. BIG ones at that!...

Yah... it was a real surprise the first time I saw the name of my ice maker on one huge excavator out here!

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 01-12-2003, 08:35 PM:

Jack, some of the drag lines and cranes Manitowoc built had crawlers big enough where it took two tractor trailer rigs hogging three lanes of a freeway to move.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-13-2003, 02:12 AM:

Yah... I was going to ask you if they had some creative way to move them or if they actually built them "in place"... geez, what monsters!

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 01-20-2003, 09:00 PM:

Barry, are you taking progress photos?