Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Buying a Theatre

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Posted by Randy Nicholson (Member # 1564) on 01-13-2003, 09:52 AM:

I am seriously considering ownership in a theatre but have no experience in this industry. Can someone give me some direction on the best sources for understanding theatre ownership? Also, does anyone know of a source to find theatres for sale in Ontario?

Thanks,
Randy

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-13-2003, 04:10 PM:

I assume you're asking about Ontario, Canada. We have a couple of Canadians who post on this site. You might ask them. As for theatres in general try Boxoffice.com or Bigscreenbiz.com. Also, theatre supply dealers often know of theatres for sale. Are you doing this because you want to run a theatre or as an investment?

Posted by Randy Nicholson (Member # 1564) on 01-13-2003, 04:56 PM:

Yes, I did mean Toronto, Canada. I'm doing this because I want to run a theatre. I have a unique idea for a small community theatre, that I believe with the right location, could be a great venture, a sound investment, and a lot of fun too. I checked out one web site that listed theatres for sale, but there was nothing listed for the area that I'm looking for. I would imagine that it makes much more sense buying an existing theatre instead of investing in the construction of a new theatre.

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-13-2003, 06:43 PM:

Hey, whatever happened to Joe Joseph, Theatre Broker? Used to see his ads in Boxoffice all the time.

Posted by Jeff Sirles (Member # 1511) on 01-13-2003, 07:10 PM:

MAKE A FRIEND. You need to learn alot. Find an owner or operator (Obviously who you wont end up competeing against), and be their right hand man for a while. There are no "How To" books for this industry. If you want to learn do it hands-on. (work for a theater for a year before you jump into this, you may decide you'd rather not open a theater)
Don't belive this will be easy, and understand you'll need to make alot of sacrifices for somewhat moddest returns. Yet, if you have the guts, work ethic, and $$$(and alot of it) this industry like many others is crackable.
GOOD LUCK!

Posted by Jim Alexander (Member # 226) on 01-13-2003, 09:19 PM:

All I can tell you is five years ago I did a lot of research and thought I had a pritty good idea what I was doing and what I was in for. Five years later, I don't think a had even half a clue and certainly had no idea what I was in for. I found out rather quickly that I had to learn extremely quickly (the learning curve was vertical!). I made a lot of mistakes and lucked out a few times. There have been some really good time interrupted by "hell on earth".

A couple of lessons learned:

1. Don't give up. When its at its worst, is not the time to close the door.
2. Don't hesitate to seek advise, but you are the one who must make the decisions. What works for others may not work for you. Remember, you are the one who signs the cheques.
3. Set reasonable limits and stick to them. Once you have a better idea then you can adjust those limits.
4. Be prepared to work like you have never worked before!

Above all, have fun and enjoy yourself. There's no use giving yourself a heart attack over it.

Posted by Glenda Cockrum (Member # 542) on 01-13-2003, 10:42 PM:

If you are fortunate enough to find a theatre to purchase that is still in operation, try to do an "internship" with the exixsting owners/ operators. We spent 6 months with the prior owners while my SBA paperwork was being processed; this gave us a good start in understanding the business, and really made all the difference in our continuing into our 5th year. Of course we have still hit some "bumps", but the internship was the key to everything from booking ,box office, concession and projection booth.
Above all realize this business changes all aspects of your life; rather like a marriage, your free time is gone, forget weekend getaways, dinner out with friends is a difficult juggling act, your children's schedules also get shifted, everything changes; you must eat, sleep and breath theater for at least your first year to fully get the beginnings of a clue to this business! But I can not imagine doing anything else! Good luck!

Posted by Tom Wienholt (Member # 1510) on 01-13-2003, 11:48 PM:

Randy,
You said that you went to a website that lists theatres for sale. What is the website? Thanks

Posted by David Favel (Member # 1125) on 01-14-2003, 03:16 PM:

Burlington, VT. 6 screen Multi Plex for lease!

Here is a golden opportunity for the right operator. Burlington,
Vermont has a Theatre For Lease that is in a market that is a dream come true. Located in a completely renovated and busy downtown area that is within walking distance of not one, but four colleges and with a population of almost 39,000 people it seems that the right operator could not help but succeed. Located in the heart of Downtown Burlington, Vermont's largest city, this property is currently the only active theatre located in the Downtown area, only minutes away
from Interstate-89 and surrounding communities. This great 6 Cinema Complex operated by Hoyts currently is an opportunity waiting for the right operator. Broker participation welcome.
Contact: Robert Bouchard/Development Manager
802-651-1315

email: bbouchard@pizzagalli.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I don't know anything about this place, just recieved an e-mail about it.

Posted by Randy Nicholson (Member # 1564) on 01-14-2003, 04:34 PM:

Tom,

I visited two websites, boxoffice.com and bigscreenbiz.com. Both had sections for properties for sale but unfortunately there was nothing located in Toronto, Canada.

For everyone else that's given some valuable replies:
First of all, thanks for replying. I'm very appreciative of everyone's feedback. Especially since no one told me to jump off a cliff since I didn't know anything about running a theatre. I know that this is going to be hard work, but when does owning your own business ever mean that it's a walk in the park? It's what I want to do and I'm in the best position ever to go for it. Just need a little direction at this point. If anyone knows someone in Canada, Toronto even better, that I could talk with I'd be appreciative if you forwarded them my email address.

Randy

Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 01-14-2003, 06:30 PM:

Tom, Why are you looking in Toronto? Are you a Canadian, going home?

It is a long way from Texas. Just courious. I also wish you well in your endeavor.

You might also put an ad in the classified section of the industry journals, situation wanted section: WANTED: THEATRE TO BUY.

Keep us posted.

Posted by Randy Nicholson (Member # 1564) on 01-14-2003, 08:52 PM:

Yes, I'm from Texas but my wife is from Canada and we're moving back to Toronto due to a job promotion for her.

Randy

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 01-14-2003, 11:09 PM:

Randy,

If my memory serves me correctly, I believe the beautiful art-deco single screen EGLINTON Theatre in Toronto was just shuttered this past summer. I know there was a big movement to try and save it within the community. It may be available, and there may be help from the community for anyone interested in reopening it.

I'm sure someone from Canada that posts here can probably update us on the current status of the EGLINTON.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 01-15-2003, 02:12 AM:

I don't know for sure, but the Eglington, like many others, probably closed because they could no longer afford the property tax after every property in Ontario was reassessed at a ridiculous value. [Mad]

Outside of Toronto, watch out for new multiplex builds in small to mid sized markets - they'll kill your 4 or less screen theatre in a heartbeat. [Frown]

Cineplex Odeon might still be selling off smaller properties. I know of a few that sold over the summer. Try calling their offices and talking to a district manager.

Hey there's an idea! Buy/lease/whatever the first Cineplex Odeon theatre in the Toronto Eaton Centre. [Smile]

Posted by Don Furr (Member # 1469) on 01-15-2003, 07:19 AM:

Hi Randy,
I opened 11 theatres in 10 years in 6 states and never...ever...bought a building. I would suggest you exhaust EVERY possible lease option before purchasing a SINGLE PURPOSE building. You will have enought problems if things don't go well without trying go get rid of a sloped floor building. Not much market for an old theatre building. A couple of other important items in your negotiations: make the landlord responsible for HVAC repairs and ALL roof repairs!!! If he/she won't do that, do NOT enter into a lease without making the landlord certify that the HVAC is 100% at lease signing and the roof has been checked. Like I said before, you will already have your hands full without those MOST expensive two thing biting you in the a--.
Just an idea.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 01-15-2003, 10:37 PM:

I've never had the landlord responsible for HVAC ... but always for Roof.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 01-16-2003, 12:19 AM:

If you are confident with your business plan I personally really dont like leasing, in the end of the lease you dont have anything with basically the same payments as if you were buying the building (P,P,&E). But that is just my philosophy and I'm sure others will disagree.

If the theatre, or any other business for that matter, is on shaky ground or could be if another was built nearby then I would think leasing would be the way to go, otherwise you might as well end up owning something at the end of the term.

Edit: Oh, if you are just going into this as a business venture and not a long term commitment I guess leasing would be the way to go then also.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 01-16-2003, 12:43 PM:

Leasing might be an attractive option if the building you are interested would sell for $5 million but you only have $300K to get in to business.

Posted by Kara J. McVay (Member # 1285) on 01-24-2003, 09:12 AM:

Not in the area you were talking about, but sounds interesting.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2303304876&category=15825

Posted by Dennis Atkinson (Member # 345) on 01-24-2003, 04:13 PM:

One to stay away from.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2906737065&category=12605

Historic.........but gutted!

What a crime.

Dennis