This is topic Cranking "Cleaning lights" up too fast at the end of a film! (And I'm still there!) in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Jason Whyte (Member # 1433) on 02-03-2003, 02:25 AM:
 
Hey everyone,

There has been an irritating thing that a local multiplex theater in Victoria, BC has just started doing.

The credits come up, the automation hits (a wonderful cross-cue that is easily visible on screen and bumps the soundtrack ever so slightly), and then we see the garbage cleaners file in almost a few seconds. To make matters worse, one cleaner hits the "cleaning lights" (very very VERY bright halogen lights) which come on at full blast, making the reading of film credits very difficult. (I even heard one couple at a screening remark "Oh, the garbage cleaners are here. We better leave.")

This happened both times I visited this particular theater this weekend, and was very frustrated by the "Thank you, now GET OUT" attitude that the management seems to impose on their customers. If this persists when I go back next week, I will certainly complain to management, but I shouldn't have to.

Has anyone had a similar situation with this?

Regards,

Jason
 

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Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 02-03-2003, 03:19 AM:
 
We used to turn the cleaning lights on full if we had less than 8 minutes of intermission time in an effort to try to move the customers out so the ushers could clean quicker in a busy auditorium.

I did feel bad to blind the patrons with the cleaning lights but it did beat seating 2 minutes before the show started or just having a dirty theatre.

No matter what, it's rude. Customers pay for the whole film, it's just plain annoying to have lights & ushers everywhere the second a film hits end credits.
 

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Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-03-2003, 06:12 AM:
 
I used to have terrible troubles with usherettes (one in particular) switching cleaners' lights on while people were watching credits and/or forgetting to switch them off after admitting customers for the next show.

In the end I got a bit Nazi about it and made it known that on the first occasion this happened, the cleaners' lights in all screens would be switched off at the master breaker and thereafter would stay off for the rest of the day. After some initial mieowing and hissing, they got the message.
 

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Posted by Dino Panagiotopoulos (Member # 1579) on 02-03-2003, 07:02 AM:
 
At my theater, unless we had a pretty tight turnaround time (which we havent seen in a long time), the cleaning lights go on when the last person has the left the auditorium. The only other exception would be if the ushers were in some kind of rush. In that case, the lights would come on as soon as the lights came up and the wonderful non-sync came on to entertain movie goers everywhere.
 

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Posted by Darren Briggs (Member # 1071) on 02-03-2003, 07:51 AM:
 
Im running 'Catch Me If You Can' with a 4 minute turn around. I turn the lights on my self if the audience has left, otherwise the breaker Leo mentioned stays off.

Also if you clean with only house lights, you can make it look spotless, its only when the cleaners lights are on you see all the little bits under seats etc. So most experienced ushers use this trick to aid fast turn arounds. The sceen then gets fully cleaned on a morning and in any large gaps in films.

Darren
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-03-2003, 09:29 AM:
 
Anything that "rushes" the audience out of the auditorium before the final credit shows disregard for the customer AND the filmmakers. "Showmanship Done Wrong".
 

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Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 02-03-2003, 10:05 AM:
 
Jason, glad to see you are still posting to some boards other than Home Theater. I used to have this problem at my theater, but not usually with the ushers. Occasionally when we were short staffed on a busy weekend the company would call the company which handled the overnight cleaning of the theater and have a couple people sent out. They were used to cleaning with the flourescent lights on so they turned them on and often not waiting for people to exit. Some of them didn't understand (or want to admit to understanding) english so I made up signs in Spanish and communicated the problem to their supervisor.

The real problem with them switching the lights on from inside the auditorium was that the switches are faulty. If you don't push the switch all the way up/down it will still turn the lights off/on but cut off the projectionists ability to turn on the lights at the end of the night from the booth. So now the closing projectionist has to go down stairs, switch the light, go back upstairs, try the switch and if it still didn't work go back downstairs and flick the switch the other way. BIG PAIN IN THE ASS. I always waited to turn the house lights up until everyone left the theater and if the ushers requested I would turn on the cleaning lights after that.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-03-2003, 10:30 AM:
 
A few years ago, I was on pass to see a movie at GCC Hollywood
Galaxy Theatre. They started to clean during the end credits.
This theatre gives alot of time during intermissions. It was a
5 o'clock show during the week, with about 40 people. After the
show I got one of those GCC comment cards from the lobby. The
next day I sent it in. Around that time I worked afew shifts at
GCC Sherman Oaks. A few weeks later my manager comes into the
booth and gives me the comment card that he just got for the
DM. He told me that I should not send these cards. Because they
go to Boston, before coming back to the district office in LA.
So everytime the DM came to the theatre, he would ask send in
any cards lately
 

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Posted by John Spooner (Member # 1565) on 02-03-2003, 10:47 AM:
 
Like the general concensus to the question of the cleaning lights coming on, I would say that doing this is both tacky and unprofessional.
It becomes even worse when it is done to blatantly save a tiny amount of money!
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-03-2003, 12:22 PM:
 
I once complained enough (huge under-statement) about having the lights turned on during the credits that I got myself a cash refund.

I asked the manager why they didn't have the cleaning lights on during the 12 minutes of ads and 15 minutes of trailers. He told me that people would get upset if they couldn't see them. I then asked him how much more upset they would be about not being able to see the ads than I was about the credits. He then immediately gave me my refund.
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-03-2003, 01:53 PM:
 
When the show ends, dump the trash cans on the floor and say "That's for not waiting til the end of the movie!"
 

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Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 02-03-2003, 03:13 PM:
 
I've had this happen a number of times. I simply take my business elsewhere. I don't tell anyone or complain...I'll just take my dollars to places that "do film right".

Why don't I complain? Because it just doesn't do any good. Letters aren't answered, and complaints to corporate just get free passes which I can't use for the films I want to see when I want to see them.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-03-2003, 03:26 PM:
 
Although letters or complaints to the local theatre may not help, don't give up. Someone "up the chain of command" may care, especially those on the technical side (e.g., VP Projection, VP Engineering, VP Operations). Copy them on any complaints. Likewise, distributors do care how their films are shown, including cutting off of the closing credits:

http://www.filmjournal.com/applications/guides/alpha.cfm?PageID=11111170

http://www.filmjournal.com/applications/guides/alpha.cfm?PageID=11111130

http://www.boxoffice.com/scripts/content.asp?terms=2042

http://www.boxoffice.com/buyers.html

Be polite, and provide the needed details to investigate the problem, including theatre location, date, time, and names of any theatre personnel you dealt with.

If you want to provide additional feedback on presentation quality, here are some guidelines:

http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/SMPTEEVALPROG.pdf

http://www.film-tech.com/manuals/TAPGUIDELINES.pdf
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-03-2003, 05:26 PM:
 
I complained to a UA theatre when they turned the janitor lights on during the credits (among several other inexcusable problems) and was given 4 passes, but the next time I went they did it again! Since UA had merged or whatever with Regal after that, there was then no way to contact anyone regarding that particular theater.
It would be nice to be able to contact the studios about presentation quality but not sure who to contact about that. Since I've been working at a non-theater job I've made an effort to go to all films that use the PHONE-THX service though.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-03-2003, 08:27 PM:
 
I like the idea of dumping a bucket of popcorn on the floor in a very messy fashion.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-03-2003, 09:37 PM:
 
Use the links I gave at Boxoffice or Film Journal for the contacts at distributors.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-03-2003, 10:03 PM:
 
You won't be able to PHONE-THX any more. Lucasfilm's TAP division is no more.
 

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Posted by Jason Whyte (Member # 1433) on 02-03-2003, 11:45 PM:
 
Thanks for the responses, all. Next time I'll just heed Weenie Man's words and spill popcorn everywhere. Gotta love free refills on large popcorn.

Oh and hey to Mr. Martin; it's been a while. Hope to hear from you on AOL sometime.

If anyone was wondering, there are normally 45 minute - 2 hour breaks inbetween shows at this place. I have NO idea why they are in such a hurry and want people to "GET OUT" of the cinema...

Jason
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 02-04-2003, 12:02 AM:
 
Yeah, I have to admit...I liked the "Weenie Man" caption on my picture, everyone on FT knows me by that name. Maybe someday that will be re-instated. <hint>
 

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Posted by Jason Whyte (Member # 1433) on 02-04-2003, 01:44 AM:
 
Paul,

I've been a long-time reader of the forums so I know a lot of you guys here. To me, you're the Weenie Man.

Jason
 

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Posted by Kara J. McVay (Member # 1285) on 02-04-2003, 09:39 AM:
 
I have a solution, no cleaning lights. We only have the house lights to clean by and we get our theatre clean.
 

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Posted by Mike Olpin (Member # 1115) on 02-04-2003, 12:48 PM:
 
At my theatre, the ushers aren't to use the Halogen cleaning lights. The house lights provide more than enough illumination to effectively clean an auditorium durring intermission, and using the cleeaning lights only leads to problems allready mentioned in this thread. As a mater of fact all the switches to the cleaning lights are labled DO NOT TOUCH. The lights are used only by the night staff for deep cleaning of the theatres.

quote:

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Since UA had merged or whatever with Regal after that, there was then no way to contact anyone regarding that particular theater.

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quote:

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After the
show I got one of those GCC comment cards from the lobby. The
next day I sent it in. Around that time I worked afew shifts at
GCC Sherman Oaks. A few weeks later my manager comes into the
booth and gives me the comment card that he just got for the
DM. He told me that I should not send these cards.

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quote:

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When the show ends, dump the trash cans on the floor and say "That's for not waiting til the end of the movie!"

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Heck yeah!!!!

 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-04-2003, 12:51 PM:
 
Cleaning lights should be appropriately wired through the automation so that they can not be turned on until the douser is closed. Any theater management/booker that sets showtimes which requires people to clean during the end credits in order to be able to get the next crowd in and the next show started on time needs to learn a little respect for the people who made the film and the customers who want to watch ALL of the film.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-04-2003, 12:54 PM:
 
I would hope that theatre management would welcome constructive criticism, even from their employees.

The whole idea is to help each other get better, isn't it?


 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 02-04-2003, 01:38 PM:
 
Yeah, but not til the movie's actually over.
I mean dumping the popcorn on the floor, didn't catch the responses in between!
The lights should be able to come on during the film in an emergency though.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-04-2003, 02:40 PM:
 
Mike Olpin

quote:

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That depends did you buy tickets or did you use your
employee privaliges to get passes?

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As a union projectionist, I would get the floor staff employee pass privalige. But as a rule the Union projectionists were employees, but not entitled to regular employee privaliges.
But I do stop at the snack bar & buy a popcorn & coke.
So that makes me a paying customer. At times I would go to a
theatre, stand in line to buy a full priced ticket. And the
manager or Asst. would stop me at the door. They would have me wait and they would return with a pass ticket & refund. That
still makes me a paying customer. If I'm working for the same
company and I see something wrong. Like what happened with
starting to clean during the ending credits. Just show me the
comment cards. As a professional in this business each show
should be perfect. Maybe thats why I left the theatre end of
the business. To many people doing film and theatres wrong.
Now as a Studio Projectionist, I do not have to deal with the
theatre chain
 

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Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 02-04-2003, 04:08 PM:
 
When I was trained as an usher, I was taught to wait until the last customer has left the theatre before turning on the cleaning lights. I still believe heavily in that rule.

But what use to pisses me off was an usher leaving the lights on. I would call management on the walkie and it took about 10 minutes before the usher got the message.

All booths should be equipped with a way of turning the cleaning lights off. That simple.
 

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Posted by Kenny Thies (Member # 1551) on 02-04-2003, 05:42 PM:
 
We only use the house lights to do our cleaning between shows. There are many times when people sit through the entire credits of a movie, maybe they knew someone that worked on the film and want to see their name. That would be very rude of the theater to deny them of that.

As far as hooking them up to the automation, there may be a time in an emergency case when someone has falling or hurt themselves that you would need the lights on immediately to assist the person. The only time I've turned on the cleaning lights during business hours, is to assist a patron who has lost a wallet or their wedding ring or something along those lines.
 

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Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 02-04-2003, 05:54 PM:
 
The theater I used to work at at a breaker in each cinema in the booth to shut off the cleaning lights.
 

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Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 02-05-2003, 09:30 AM:
 
Ours has all the cleaning light breakers in the booths too except for one house. We clean using only the house lights or sometimes flashlights if the shows are very close together or it is real busy, but fortunately we rarely have any serious cleaning to do between shows unless it is a blockbuster or a kids show - then the place is a pigsty. The only ones that use the official cleaning lights are the housekeepers, and they are only around when no one else is in the building.
 

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Posted by Michael Hunt (Member # 772) on 02-05-2003, 12:36 PM:
 
Used to turn off the breaker all the time until some bright spark added some extra 'power fail' emergency lighting in the auditorium, and powered it from the 'cleaners lights'

My solution, wire up a convenient switch in the box to turn off the supply to the cleaners lights, but leaving the supply to the power fail lighting intact.

Hate it in Cinema's when someone's lazy and cant wait for the audience to leave.

If there's not enough turnaround time between shows someones got their scheduling wrong and should get a talking to!

The houselighting in my main screen is far brighter than the so called cleaners lights anyway, as the Halogen floods that were there were bloody awkward to change at some 20+ feet up in the roof, so we removed them, and replaced them with compact fluorescents that give enough light to walk through, and do basic cleaning, but dont blind the audience if some idiot does turn them on.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 02-06-2003, 05:14 AM:
 
you don't need to be a paying customer to do the theater a favor by telling them that there's room for improvement in their presentation, especially if you can do so anonymously via comment card! you just shouldn't raise a stink and demand passes.

carl
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-06-2003, 07:02 AM:
 
Always use CONSTRUCTIVE Criticism --- provide information to identify problems and find solutions. The trick sometimes is getting it into the hands of a person who will understand the problem, and care enough to do something to fix it.
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 02-23-2003, 05:03 PM:
 
The Loews New Brunswick brought the cleaning lights up over the end credits of Shanghai Knights last night. It didn't help that the automation wasn't working properly and couldn't bring the regular lights up to halfway for the end credits.

I have seen the cleaning lights go up full in the middle of a movie: at the UA Union Square in NYC, on a Saturday matinee of The Anniversary Party. The cleaning lights went up full in the part where the kids are dancing a ballet. This all but washed out the image -- The Anniversary Party was a DV-to-35mm transfer. Somebody went out to tell the staff. The cleaning lights went out only to come on again 5 minutes later. Somebody went out again to tell the staff. This time the cleaning lights stayed off.
 

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Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 02-23-2003, 06:31 PM:
 
Charles, I wonder if that theatre has a simple light switch inside the auditorium with a keylock cover.
someone could have forgotten to lock it up and the lights could have been turned on by a prankster.
I've been to a show where that has happened before.
 

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Posted by Brent Mahaney (Member # 1090) on 02-23-2003, 09:36 PM:
 
My ushers recently made an extremely RARE mistake by turning the cleaning lights on during the credits of a movie because they were "in a hurry". The lady who complained said it best. She said, "I like your theatre a lot, but when I pay to see a movie, that includes the credits. I don't want your ushers determining when the movie is over. I trust the director knows best." An amusing but excellent point. The credits are part of the film. Period. Leave the lights OFF.
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 02-26-2003, 03:19 PM:
 
James R: The cleaning lights were switched on in the auditorium by the usher just before the Spyglass logo at the end.
 

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Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 02-27-2003, 12:53 AM:
 
Charles, you said it happened twice in the middle, hence the explanation I gave.
 

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Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 02-28-2003, 11:01 AM:
 
I've never seen the clearers lights wired through the douser, although I can see some merit in it, although with good management policies it seems to be just another thing to go wrong.

We deal with the cleaners lights in two ways;
- Where a site has halogen floods, we install a two way switch - the operator can turn these off at will
- Where no cleaners lights, the usher can turn the house lights on however the operator has overall control
Both situations can create an "up and down" fight between the booth and the floor, but if this is the case usually the theatre is empty of patrons so who cares ?

Have seen situations where the ushers' early turning on of the cleaners lights has caused major upstairs / downstairs rifts - god, over turning some lights on ? Surely all concerned need a lesson in reality ? - is this really something to get stressed over ?
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-28-2003, 12:06 PM:
 

quote:

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Both situations can create an "up and down" fight between the booth and the floor, but if this is the case usually the theatre is empty of patrons so who cares ?

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Good pastime for the long winter months. Denying turning the lights off only makes it more fun. Oh no, the theatre's possessed.

quote:

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Have seen situations where the ushers' early turning on of the cleaners lights has caused major upstairs / downstairs rifts - god, over turning some lights on ? Surely all concerned need a lesson in reality ? - is this really something to get stressed over ?

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YES! Impatient ushers should be shot. Then sent back to usher school.
 

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Posted by Jannette McQueen (Member # 1885) on 09-15-2003, 12:50 AM:
 
I only remember anything like that happen once, and it was very recent actually.

I was up at my family's cabin and thought I'd check out the cinema I used to love so much Hadn't been there in ages, and now that I actually work at a cinema, I thought it'd be neat. But it is just a family owned cinema, and in a small little vacation spot. I was watching Lara Croft and the Cradle of Life and right as soon as the credits started they cranked up the stage lights so it was really tough to read anything. I thought it looked a bit unprofessional and would have been extremely annoying had I wanted to stay and read the credits.

It was just a matinee, which is just at 2pm and they didn't have another show till 7:30 ... so it's not as though they were in a hurry to clean the theater or anything, probably animation, but still, I thought the stage lights didn't need to be up.

Didn't say anything though I had already been enough of a pest. And looking back at the years I'd spent watching shows when I was younger, I think they'd always done it that way.
 

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Posted by Peter Hall (Member # 695) on 09-15-2003, 03:26 AM:
 
If the ushers are in such a hurry to get the lights on, and the operator has little enough to do that they can stand looking out the port waiting for the automation to turn the lights on, perhaps the projectionist could offer the usher a helping hand picking up the litter after the film is over. This way everybody would win and 'twould show a spirit of cooperation.

Shit - did I say cooperation - wash my mouth out (sorry, completely forgot which forum I was in)
 

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Posted by Mike Baer (Member # 1519) on 09-15-2003, 11:18 AM:
 
In my Theatre,when the credits starts,only the houselights go on half.And when most of the customers are out,the ushers begin to clean.Sometimes it happens,that all customers are out before the film has ended,the ushers tell me on the radio to bring the lights up full,so they can finish cleaning by better light.
 

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Posted by Kevin Wale (Member # 1851) on 09-15-2003, 12:41 PM:
 
Our cleaning light switches are in the booth. The cleaners have zero control of them. Our automation is set up to turn the lights up slightly when the credits roll with the cue being on the non soundtrack side. If there is a quick turnaround, cleaners go in but inform the people politely that there is no rush and they are welcomed to stay. If they are finished cleaning before the last person comes out, they stay in the auditorium at the exit door so they can be there to smile at the customer and say thanks (and all that other customer relations stuff that so many people have no idea about). This way the ticket tearer doesn't let people in just because they see the cleaners come out.

Cleaning lights only come on for customers when they have lost something, or if the projectionsist sees that no one is in there but the cleaners and he might turn them on for them while he threads up.

Either way, we are all fully able to clean those theatres in dark conditions and if I go back in, I very seldom see that they have left any trash or crumbs on the floor. You can move quickly and without seeing much, still sweep up all the popcorn and candy. It really is possible. LOL
 

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