Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Is anyone else missing their prints?

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Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 02-20-2003, 10:43 PM:

I came in today to see that LIFE OF DAVID GALE had arrived, but not OLD SCHOOL or DARK BLUE.
Called TES to inquire and was told that they would look into it and get back to me.
This was at 2:30 PM
Called back an hour later and was told something about a truck not making it out on time and all the prints coming out of Dallas were being delayed.
We were told that they would call us when they knew something.
I called back at around 7 PM and was told that they still had no idea whene we would get our prints and they'd call us when they knew.

I went into the office and found faxes from TES explaining that due to "unforseen circumstances" that these prints as well as theatres expecting prints of A GUY THING will not be recieving them in their normal window.
The fax said that the prints are on their way to the local Airborne Express station, but are not expected to deliver until late tonight or early tomorrow.

Does anyone know who else this would affect other than Houston?

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 02-20-2003, 11:23 PM:

This effected our Lake Jackson theater, which is about 45 minutes south of Houston. The manager there called and got the same lame story from TES and was told to expect their prints between 9 and 10 tomorrow morning. I guess it's a good thing that theater doesn't open until noon.

It did not effect our Waco location. They received their prints as scheduled. Looks like the ol' Dallas-Houston driver got lost somewhere on I-45.

Another quality round of service from the friendly folks at Technicolor. (I choose not to blame Airborne, just because I hate Technicolor and I know it's their fault somehow.)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-21-2003, 12:42 AM:

It was the result of an overturned 18 wheeler full of prints. Some 300+ prints killing theaters in 3 states.

...and why exactly was it that TES is not allowed to set delivery dates for Wednesday again? I know damn good and well that *most* prints are ready in time for a Wednesday delivery and that whole "it prevents bootlegging" is just an assinine excuse. If someone is going to bootleg the movie on a Wednesday, they will most certainly do it on a Thursday just as easily.

Really now...WHY??? WHAT IS WRONG WITH WEDNESDAY DELIVERIES???!!! [Mad]

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-21-2003, 12:51 AM:

I'm not sure if its related or not but here in Wisconsin our prints came in at the very end of our delivery window. I was just about to call when they arrived.

Oh, and we got David Gale on Wednesday.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-21-2003, 01:20 AM:

I can only think of three prints in the last 10 years that weren't available for my Tuesday morning (self) pickup.

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 02-21-2003, 01:54 AM:

A Wednesday delivery? My God man! That would be in the best interest of the exhibitor! Therefore, it's TES's lowest priorty.

I miss Wednesday deliveries. It made life so much easier.

By far the worst experience I've had with a delivery was my two prints of The Phantom Menace . They both showed up at 11:35 p.m. - a scant 26 minutes before we were supposed to show them to sold-out houses. (It was Fox, so it wasn't TES's fault - at least far as I can tell [evil]

) That was a quick build-up.

Just remember to have your orange cans ready Friday morning or the Airborne Express guy has orders to beat you!

Posted by Josh Kirkhart (Member # 1046) on 02-21-2003, 02:08 AM:

Add me to the list.
No Life of David Gale, Dark Blue, or Old School. They say I'll have em' tommorow at 10am like Houston. It really messes with the sleep structure. But that whale of a print 'Gods and Generals' arrived in those damn Fox boxes.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-21-2003, 03:05 AM:

That's another interesting story. Apparently Warner Brothers felt theaters would have a hard time keeping track of 4 cans to a print and that sending the Gods print in 2 boxes would be easier to keep track of. All I know is that not too many booth stairways are wide enough to carry a balanced load of both boxes (one in each hand), not too many people would want to carry 4 hours worth of film in their hands at one time, and carrying one box at a time puts quite a bit of stress on your back. Awwwww to hell with the theater people, right? [fu]

When are we going to see those wonderful lightweight, non-shedding and extremely durable PLASTIC cans in widespread use???

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-21-2003, 03:16 AM:

I hate those boxes! The theater I work for refuses to buy a dolly and I had to carry 4 of those damn boxes all the way from our front door up and around our spiraling staircase up into the booth, one at a time. Carrying two at a time for any decent distance is impossible unless you are a lot stronger than I am. I lifted each box from the bottom and used both arms, so there certainly was no stress on my back. Those handles they include are 100% useless!

Posted by Gracia L. Babbidge (Member # 582) on 02-21-2003, 03:40 AM:

I agree that those boxes blow! I get very disgruntled when I see a prints arriving in those blasted things.
But I don't think that the handle on them is 100% useless. I used the handles when I dragged the boxes containing Gods & Generals (one at a time), from where I set them down after lugging them upstairs, over to the rewind benches. That was after taking a few minutes to sit down and just relax after the exertion of bringing the print upstairs!

If I remember it correctly, one should not lift and move anything alone that is more than a third of one's weight.

[Roll Eyes]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-21-2003, 04:03 AM:

Most places I think have a 50 pound weight restriction, which I'm betting those are 50+.

Joe, next time take the manager's cushy office chair and throw the prints in them, then roll the chair across the lobby. [Wink]

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 02-21-2003, 08:58 AM:

Here's one for you guys - based on the comment of having the orange cans ready for Friday morning pickup. Half to 3/4 of the time they don'tick those prints up for days or even weeks. They sit down in the lobby like we are some big warehouse or something. So I convinced the owner to tell them all that if we didn't have specific instructions otherwise, we weren't tearing down our prints until Friday. They went for it, and so far we haven't had one request for an early pickup. It saves the theatre money when we can tear down during our regular shift, we get to go home on time Thursday nights, and it removes the biggest reason why no one was removing the old splice tape and using new when putting the heads and tails back on - everyone was in a big-ass hurry to get home because we all have to get up at 600 for our day jobs. Now there is time to do it right!

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 02-21-2003, 09:03 AM:

And then TES calls about 10:30 pm stating that the prints will arrive. One at 8:40 and the other at 9:00. Comes to be about 1:30 am and guess what? There here already !

Nothing like setting far out expectations and then expecting you to feel good about them when they beat it. Yeah Right.

I agree with Brad ! Wednesday all the way ! Long time ago received our ETS prints on Wed but that soon stopped.

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 02-21-2003, 09:36 AM:

We also got our print of "Life of David Gale" delivered Wednesday. Fairly early in the day as well. Shocking.

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 02-21-2003, 09:42 AM:

Hmm, Technicolor must cut you guys up north some slack. All I know is that if I don't have my orange cans ready for pick-up by noon on Friday, I'll get a nasty call from TES later on that afternoon, as if I'm trying to steal the Holy Grail or something.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-21-2003, 09:47 AM:

Its actually an issue with the film companies and possibly the booking departments. When Airborne doesn't pick up your prints on Friday its because the Studio hasn't informed TES that those movies are no longer playing at your location. One thing you could do if this happens to you fairly often would be to call TES on Thursday and confirm the pickup times for the prints you are ending that week.

Posted by Jeff Sirles (Member # 1511) on 02-21-2003, 02:54 PM:

I didnt have said problem, in fact I had the opposite. I recieved 2 prints of "Old School" in 2 locations...only problem was I'm not playing "Old School" at either location. Go Figure

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-21-2003, 05:22 PM:

We got our prints on time. Gods and Generals came in regular mettle cans. David gale came in on Wednesday and Dark blue came in on Thursday. I already had Old School. My biggest concern was the fact that we had an ice storm this past weekend knocking out power at the theater for 2 days. I was affraid the power may go out again before I got everything ready to go. I still do not have power at home. I have to check my email at work. It has been a mess here.

Posted by Bill Carter (Member # 156) on 02-21-2003, 06:44 PM:

We also got David Gale a day early... on Wednesday. And much earlier than our usual window. That never happens here!

Posted by Jacob Huber (Member # 1138) on 02-21-2003, 09:55 PM:

I guess us "Northerners" did get it good. I walked up stairs on Wed., and there were the cans for David Gale. We never really have any problems with TES, their prints are almost always at the theatre by the time I get there in the morning on Thursdays, if not earlier. Now the guy who handles ETS's prints is a different story. On time we were waiting around till almost 1am for our prints, and one the other proj. called him on his cell-phone, turns out he was at the local Barnes & Noble's and then went to Wal-Mart or something (this was a big movie wknd no less).

Posted by Aldo Baez (Member # 790) on 02-21-2003, 10:50 PM:

Those boxes have been showing up alot more often than usual. Drumline was in a box, my two daredevil prints were in a box, and now gods and generals as well. Hmph.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-21-2003, 10:53 PM:

We got our print of David Gale on Wednesday as well. I am sure glad Colorado is so far north so we could benefit! [Smile]

I agree that all prints should be two days prior regardless. No excuses. Ah hell all prints should be 1 month prior! [Big Grin]

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 02-22-2003, 12:10 AM:

See, what'd I tell ya - the further north, the easier it gets. Has something to do the gravitational pull of Canada. Far too complex to explain in one simple post. [Wink]

When I was still working in Texas, our ETS guy got pulled over for DUI one Thursday afternoon. The police were kind enough to call us so I could go down to the station and pick up our prints.

Long live the independent shipping courier!

Posted by Kenny Thies (Member # 1551) on 02-22-2003, 12:50 AM:

Yes, to my surprise to, we got our Gods & Generals, Life of David Gale, on Wednesday. They were both there before 3:30. I rarely even get my prints before 4 on thursdays. I was very happy to see them there a day early. Wish this could be a standard.... IF only [Confused]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-22-2003, 01:28 AM:

I think TES has got it all wrong. Billions and trillions of dollars are being lost due to piracy of movies on Thursdays. This must be changed. All prints should be delivered 1/2 hour before the first show time. And then prints must be broken down each night after the last run, shipped back to TES and then re-shipped back to the theater the very next day 1/2 hour before the first show (different used print each time, of course). I can't believe TES is so careless!

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-22-2003, 01:34 AM:

Actually Joe, what they really should be doing is sending the first half of the movie to one theater, and the second half to the next closest theater down the road, of which the two theaters will team up together with box office tickets and showtimes. That way there would never be a complete print in the same building at any given point in time and would thus make bootlegging even harder!

That coupled with your idea, of course.

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 02-22-2003, 01:59 AM:

quote:
See, what'd I tell ya - the further north, the easier it gets. Has something to do the gravitational pull of Canada. Far too complex to explain in one simple post.

I had just assumed, what with Gods & Generals going into wide release this week, that it was some kind of Technicolor salute to the north for winning the Civil War [Smile]

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-22-2003, 10:09 AM:

quote:
I had just assumed, what with Gods & Generals going into wide release this week, that it was some kind of Technicolor salute to the north for winning the Civil War

Gods and Generals is not from Technicolor! [Smile]

=TMP=

Posted by Andrew Duggan (Member # 1302) on 02-22-2003, 10:17 AM:

Dammit, I was hoping that nobody would point out the huge flaw in my joke...

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-22-2003, 03:41 PM:

Brad, is your statement about TES's Thursday-deliveries being due to piracy concerns actual verified information, or is it speculation? If the former, can you share that with us?

A bit of background on TES's delivery practice though (I'm sure some of you know this, but it's good to review). TES gets the booking information from the studios, generally electronically (except when it's via fax...imagine how well that works), somewhere between two weeks and 2 days before the playdate.

TES has theatres classified as either "1-day prior" or "2-day prior", specifying whether the theatre can expect to receive prints 1-day before the playdate or 2-days before the playdate. Generally, 2-day prior is reserved for theatres in far outlying areas that Airborne has difficulty delivering to.

In theory, I'm under the impression that you can ask TES to classify you as a 2-day prior, and they will say, "Contact your studio booker and have them make the request." I don't know anyone who has successfully managed it, but it may be worth a shot.

Of course, that's just for the "regular" system. As we all know, sometimes a studio may ask for prints to be delievered earlier, especially when there are going to be midnight showings, etc. (for some reason this seems to happen more with ETS than TES), and prints can arrive late or same-day.

Another spot for flexibility is in the specification of the "playdate." This is more of an issue for films not openning on the break (and non-theatricals), but if your studio booker enters the film as openning on Thursday, well, then you should definitely have it by Wednesday if you're a 1-day-prior, etc.

By the way, Airborne is featuring an article about their special relationship with TES on their website. New Book Reveals How Airborne Meets the Test of Time. It's amusing that they still think Sony is a customer.

We generally make a practice of calling up TES at the end of the week to verify playdates for the coming week's films. It helps to get a head start on whatever the exciting problems might be.

Oh, another thing to know is that TES has something called the "promise date," which is the day they expect to guarantee that you will receive the print. This is mostly useless, as the promise date isn't assigned until just about the instant the print ships, and most prints ship via 2nd-day Airborne Express.

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-22-2003, 03:49 PM:

John, I have asked various people at TES from the ladies who answer the phone all the way up to the highest supervisors I have managed to get on the phone. The reasoning given was always bootlegging, that the studios didn't want the prints on the street 2 days prior for bootlegging reasons. The other obvious reason is for those films when the studios don't finish the movie in time, but that was never used as an excuse.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-22-2003, 03:55 PM:

Interesting, Brad. I would take anything I heard from the regular phone folks with a grain of salt; that is, I'd question how much they really know about the "why", and how much might be informed speculation on their part. ("Question everything!," that's me.)

If NATO were useful, this certainly seems like the kind of thing they should be good at. Of course, talking to Brad Carroll might be good too.

(As a non-theatrical, I don't have the same issues you guys have, so I'm not going to engage in active lobbying...)

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-22-2003, 04:10 PM:

That's why I asked to speak to various supervisors as well.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-22-2003, 04:15 PM:

Sure...but the job of the supervisor is to solve problems and manage people, and I suspect it's really unlikely they are involved in the policy-setting or studio-interfacing side of things.

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-22-2003, 04:19 PM:

Probably so, but when it's all you can get ahold of...that's the answer. If TES didn't want that being used as an excuse, they need to train their people better or get a spokesperson of some kind answering questions. Brad Carroll would be perfect for this, but they don't seem to want to let him talk publicly.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-22-2003, 04:22 PM:

Oh sure. But this is a very common problem across almost all industries. It's difficult to train front-line employees to give good answers to difficult policy questions.

I agree that it's not particularly excusable, but I would focus on solving the problem, rather than getting stuck in the rut of "If you really believe the answer you gave us...," because that doesn't get you anywhere.

Of course, if Brad isn't effective, perhaps you should talk to upper management. Go straight to the relevent Vice President (C. Singh?)...

--jhawk

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-22-2003, 04:30 PM:

John,

I've been repeating that answer for 3 years here on this forum. If it was wrong or TES cared, they could've done something about it by now. Far as I'm concerned, that is what I have been repeatedly told and that is their reasoning. This is getting old.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-22-2003, 08:18 PM:

The last time I was in the Victoria Film Shipping depot (which is owned by TES), everyone's prints were ready to go (already labelled) on Tuesday. As far as I know they just sit there waiting till Wednesday night (for shipping early Thursday morning).

I guess the system is setup for the people who can't manage to get all their films booked by 6:00pm Monday.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-22-2003, 08:25 PM:

Daryl, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that anything we see in the US has any relationship to how its handled in Canada...

--jhawk

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-22-2003, 09:01 PM:

Prints are shipped on Thursday's in Canada.
Prints are shipped on Thursday's in the US.

TES owns the depot and shipping company in Canada.
TES owns the depot's in the US.

It sound's pretty similar to me.

My point is the prints, most often coming from the US, are ready in Canada on Tuesday, they're probably ready on Tuesday in the US also. So it is probably some stupid studio or TES decision that is behind this nonsense.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-22-2003, 09:15 PM:

Prints are shipped in Thursdays in the US? News to me. My prints are shipped 2 days before. Since most first-run theatres receive most TES prints on Thursday, I assume they are shipped on Tuesday, but could be Wednesday, but Thursday doesn't seem plausible.

In any case, regardless of superficial resemblance, the fact is that you get prints on Tuesdays in Canada, and pretty much no one gets new opennings on Tuesdays in the US; therefore, policies and procedures must be different.

--jhawk

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 02-22-2003, 09:48 PM:

I only receive prints on Tuesday's when I pick them up myself at the depot -- there are only a few theatres which I do this for.

Regularily I receive prints Thursday morning... the trucks leave Toronto early in the morning, probably around 4am.

Like you've said, 2-day prior is possible though.
If they shipped the prints before noon on Tuesday, I don't see why the couldn't be at most theatres by mid-day Wednesday.

Maybe I'm just expecting too much. Maybe they should ship prints via UPS instead. [Smile]

Heck, I can get a print, same-day, from across the province via bus.

Posted by Chad Calpito (Member # 1562) on 02-22-2003, 09:58 PM:

Man, I can't stand Technicolor at all. I've had to deal with them on numerous occassions regarding film pick-ups. Also, I hate those cardboard boxes. Star Wars II came in those boxes and I hated to deal with them. I prefer the cans. But, luckily, there is an elevator to both Projection Room #1 and Projection Room #2 which makes it easy to transfer prints from one to the other.

Chad

Posted by Mark Maxwell (Member # 1355) on 02-23-2003, 11:47 PM:

Nicholas,
Is your' theater in Lake Jackson the one in the mall. If so, I heped the Nazis (Carmike) close it down a few years ago. It turnes out that one of my friends worked there as a concessionist in high school. If it's the same place, let me know how things are doing, and if they are doing well, let me know what company you work for that had enough brains too keep it going.

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 02-24-2003, 12:12 AM:

That theater is now operated by Starplex Cinemas as a discount theater, as it's in a really crappy location and isn't all that great in the interior design department either. We mainly keep it open because the mall was itching to have a movie theater and we didn't want another company moving into the area. We cleaned it up as best we could and have been running it as a sub-run for almost two years now. It does well enough to pay for itself, but our area isn't really big enough to support a discount theater.

The theater I was referring to in my previous post is a first-run 10-screen which was built by Starplex in 1997. It (and no small amount of corporate mismanagement by Carmike) put both of the Carmike theaters in Lake Jackson out of business.

BTW, Technicolor won't deliver to this sub-run location since it's not open during Airborne's delivery window, so all of that theater's prints are delivered to the first-run facility. This theater opens around five everyday, the same time Airborne is picking up packages out of their drop box in the parking lot. Yet another example of "Print Delivery Done Wrong". [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Mark Maxwell (Member # 1355) on 02-24-2003, 12:55 AM:

When we closed the theater, the mall said they were going to run it on their' own, which of course they didn't have the know how. I'm glad to hear that something is being done with it at least. I know it's in bad condition because it is an old theater left from Carmike. A company known for having nice theaters, but mostley old theaters that they won't repair and have people work with no overtime because they are based out of Georgia who's state law says if you are in the entertainment industrie, you don't have to pay overtime. Apperantly that state law overides federal law since they use that excuse at all of their theaters. 2 years ago a ran that place during the summer for 2 months while our manager was out of town. 80 hours a week at six bucks an hour with no overtime and I was responsible for everything, whether I was there or not. They keep paperwork for 7 years so they know the hours over forty I put in so I know I could sue the crap out of them because being a former law student I know that no state law can apply in another state because federal law comes in place, and federal law supersedes state laws when that same laws is applied in another state. I'm about to start a new thread. Catch in on the floor.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 02-24-2003, 09:08 AM:

Mark, when State and Federal law are in conflict Federal law over-rides state law unless the state law is more restrictive. Also, the labor laws of a company's home office state do not apply outside of that state; the labor laws of the state where the work is being performed apply. Unless Texas has the same entertainment industry clause then you should have gotten paid overtime.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 02-24-2003, 01:58 PM:

When I worked for Cineplex and GCC, we got paid overtime. Ever
with both companies based out of the state that I worked. At
GCC we use to get daytime overtime (any shows or screenings
starting before 12 noon) and overtime after 12:30 am. Later it
changed to overtime after 1am. I think you should have been paid overtime.

The only problem I have with TES is those [bs]

reels and poor
film inspection. The delivery of prints is fine with me. When
they ask for a pick-up, I ask for them to have a courier have
a half hour to 20 mins., before the end of the film. Otherwise
they won't get to ship out that print. One time they called
to say the courier was running late for the pick-up. They asked
how much longer was I going to be here. I told them 2 more minutes. They asked can I stay any longer, so they could get the
print. I told him you can have 4 minutes, thats it. He got here
from somewhere in midtown. I don't play any of those TES games.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 02-26-2003, 08:51 AM:

Wayback on page 2, I wrote, "Airborne is featuring an article about their special relationship with TES on their website. New Book Reveals How Airborne Meets the Test of Time". I stopped by the bookstore yesterday and read that chapter from Deadline: how premier organizations win the race against time (Carrison, Dan. amazon data). (It is chapter two: "Airborne Express Accepts the Technicolor Challenge: Airborne Express entures a venture so fraught with deadlines that UPS and FedEx had backed away.")

It was interesting reading, though probably not worth buying the book. Both for what it says, and what it doesn't say. For instance, it claims that TES put NFS out of business, but makes no mention of ETS. It asserts that part TES's service is the ability to rejuvinate a print after it finishes an engagement and then get it to a new theatre; apparently the rejuvination takes only one day. It claims that the same priority ("high") is given to returns as to deliveries.

From the Airborne side, it's also interesting. Certainly it asserts a lot of information I didn't know. Like about how each Airborne site has a Technicolor Coordinator responsible for whipping all the drivers into shape. That when gearing up for a big wide release, Airborne management send out email messages and memos about the shipment, and treats every release as a special events (I can't imagine this is true today; it made sense when TES/Airborne's only customer was Buena Vista, but now?!). Also that Airborne delivery problems produced a "dark screen" less than 100 times out of 631,000 prints (for whatever year they gave stats on).

Anyhow, if you're in a bookstore, it's worth a browse. Probably shelved under Management or Business.

--jhawk