quote:

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Last weekend, for instance, about 25 million people saw "X2." That's 50 million eyes that every studio wanted to make sure saw commercials for their upcoming blockbusters.

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That's about the stupidest way of exaggerating a figure that I've ever seen!

There are other problems with the theory this guy is using in an attempt to miss trailers.

*If he is seeing the last show of the day, often managers will start (or have it started) earlier than normal because they are on salary and if they get out of there 10 minutes earlier it won't affect their paycheck.

*If he is seeing an older movie and it doesn't sell a ticket, then this doofus shows up 20 minutes later, many theaters don't run the show past 10 minutes after showtime if there is no one in attendance. By starting the show for this late fellow, it screws up the rest of the day's showtimes.

This seems like an awful lot of effort just to get out of watching previews. I think the problem here is the advertisements, not the previews themselves. Also, anything more than 5 trailers to me is just plain excessive. I prefer 3, 4 is good, 5 is acceptable...but no more.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 05-18-2003, 11:51 AM:
 
And what's with FOX lately and their stupid "Stuck On You/LXG" combo trailers they're attatching? Sure, it's only one attatchment, but the audience sees TWO trailers.

Our policy is: Commercials + 6 trailers + attatched + policy + digital.

So, with X-men 2, people were treated to 4 commercials, 8 trailers (2 attached) and then the policy and digital trailers.

FOURTEEN ADVERTISEMENTS before the movie you paid to see. Running time of this ad-blitz: 22 minutes.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 05-18-2003, 01:08 PM:
 
I got rid of my TV so I can live with 4-5 trailers in front of the feature.

Sometimes a theater gets imaginative in setting up trailers. Yesterday brought me to the AMC Empire for The Dancer Upstairs. The trailer sequence was How to Deal, 2 Fast 2 Furious , The Shape of Things.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 05-18-2003, 02:47 PM:
 
I think 3 trailers are perfect. But Ky insists on running 4 trailers. If I see three trailers, I might be able to remember the name of one of them. If I see 4 trailers, I will not remember any of the names.

As for people who arrive late to avoid "Advertising" I tell them, we have 3-trailers and that's about 6-minutes. If you come 10-minutes late, you're late.

Every ShoWest and Show East produces a trailer disc. It's an hour to an hour and a half worth of trailers. I always sit down and watch it but it shure takes a toll. Thank God for the pause button.
 

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Posted by Gordon Bachlund (Member # 124) on 05-18-2003, 03:23 PM:
 
There was a time not so long ago when preview trailers were shown to advertise the theatre's next booking(s), and were preceeded by a PREVUES OF COMING ATTRACTIONS trailer and some daters to prompt the audience. Of course, those were the days of title curtains, and, what was it called...oh yes, SHOWMANSHIP. I'll bet when Bob Allen opens his single-screen changeover carbon arc showplace in Oregon, he will revive this practice.

Meanwhile, enjoy the embarrassment of riches at your local megaplex.
 

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Posted by Scott Balko (Member # 438) on 05-18-2003, 03:25 PM:
 
I also agree that more than 4 is too much. But people can be so stupid at the same time. Many times, the same genetic defectives that complain the most about too many trailers are the same ones that you see sitting in a fast food resturant counting holes in the ceiling for hours. WTF???!!!
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 05:01 PM:
 
I agree with Scott. Four is enough!
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 05-18-2003, 05:06 PM:
 
Four is my limit, and even that is stretching it. Strange, I can remember what previews I saw from movies way back in the 60's, but can't begin to tell you today. In the single screen era where I grew up, a first-run and second-run theatre each showed three previews: the following double-feature atraction, and one coming soon. The other two first runs oftentimes showed no previews, and when they did were a maximum of two. The first two multiplexes in town never showed previews before a SCOPE picture, and maybe one of two before a flat feature. Even the first-runs I visited in San Francisco and Los Angeles oftentimes went without previews 9there was only one before STAR WARS at the Chinese, a 35mm shortie for THE WORLD's GREATEST LOVER, shown in 35mm 1.33!)
 

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-18-2003, 06:59 PM:
 
This argument could go round and round forever. I cast my vote with consistency. If you come to our theatre, we advertise a "showtime". Trailers start five minutes before that "showtime". You can expect the feature to come onscreen anywhere from five to eight minutes after that showtime. Our previews and policy are a minimum of ten minutes, and a maximum of thirteen.

So...if you want to see trailers, be in your seat five minutes before the advertised "showtime". If you don't, come five minutes after "showtime" and you will suffer through a maximum of ONE. We have promotional slides before the trailers, but no on-screen advertising on film. Show up 20 minutes after showtime because you don't want to see trailers and you're out of luck.

I don't know that there is a right and wrong about how many trailers, but whatever you decide, just make it your policy and stick with it. Mr & Mrs John Q Public will figure it out for themselves.
 

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 05-18-2003, 07:33 PM:
 
I wish they would go back to the one-minute "teasers" - some of the previews run more than 2-1/2 minutes.

With some of the crap Hollywood is putting out, you see the preview, you saw the whole movie.

....and some of the preview's dialog sounds like it was narrated by some dude with a pinched hemorrhoid!
 

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Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 05-18-2003, 08:15 PM:
 
The company I worked for, in addition to only having three trailers (plus the Coke trailer) we were instructed that "Feature Time was Feature Time". Meaning if you had 7 minutes of trailers, you hit the start button seven minutes before the listed start time, so all print times were accurate. At first, customers were quite unhappy about being late to the movie, but the good comments were far more common than the bad ones. The only problem I had was remembering what time I needed to start each show!

[ 12-28-2003, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Nate Lehrke ]
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-18-2003, 09:08 PM:
 

quote:

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make it your policy and stick with it. Mr & Mrs John Q Public will figure it out for themselves.

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You're giving them too much credit. We've been running the same # of trailers (4 or 5) for oh, about 25 years now, and we still get people who come in 25 or 30 minutes past showtime and say "The movie hasn't started yet, has it?" or my favorite, "I haven't missed anything important, have I?"
 

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-19-2003, 02:26 PM:
 
Mike Said:

You're giving them too much credit. We've been running the same # of trailers (4 or 5) for oh, about 25 years now, and we still get people who come in 25 or 30 minutes past showtime and say "The movie hasn't started yet, has it?" or my favorite, "I haven't missed anything important, have I?"

Guess you could go by that old addage:

Ignorance is correctable. Stupid is forever.
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-25-2003, 05:51 PM:
 

quote:

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If I see three trailers, I might be able to remember the name of one of them. If I see 4 trailers, I will not remember any of the names.

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This week the AMC Hamilton is playing Dirty Pretty Things and Le Divorce. The trailer pack for Le Divorce I recall from memory: Shaolin Soccer, Master & Commander, Mystic River, American Splendor. The trailer pack for Dirty Pretty Things has 2 Miramax titles that I can't recall, Under the Tuscan Sun, Elf, Passionada.

FWIW, Shaolin Soccer will be released in Mandarin with subtitles yet the trailer I saw is dubbed into English.
 

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Posted by Kevin Wale (Member # 1851) on 08-25-2003, 09:16 PM:
 
We do three + the attatched. I'll add two teasers as one trailer so that people who are just randomly late but know that trailers usually last about 8 minutes can know on the way that they are not yet late.

I say I'll add... I haven't built up a film in a couple of months. LOL
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-26-2003, 09:50 AM:
 
We are not first run and our budget model doesn't rely on screen ads, thankfully. If I had to run commercials before a movie, I would get out of the business. We will run PASs which we feel promote good will with the community (anti-drugs, anti-drinking and driving, dangers of smoking, Will Rogers stuff about West Nile Virus, etc.)....they show we care about are audience and they are always very appreciative - we always get positive comments.

So our attraction reel is: Cartoon (always a WB, except when we are playing a Roadshow title, then we show nothing except the feature), 1 PSA, 3 or 4 trailers (never more than 4) and ONLY of films we are showing in our theatre -- those that are "coming soon" HERE, not somewhere else.

Used to be you never ran trailers for films that you were not playing -- I have no idea why or when that changed, but it doesn;t make sense to me. If we are going to play a title, then the trailer is a marketing tool for US. If we are not going to play it, and it is stuck in the can or attached, then I see it as an ad for the studio, not for me. If they want to place ads on my screen, I'll gladly send them a price sheet and they can PAY for it. They don't give me their product for free....and they don't get my product -- my screen time -- for free. They can either pay a sliding scale for their ad, or they can give me a discount off the rental, but they don't get free ad time just by virtue of the fact that they can stick an ad on the product I am paying for. If I were selling newspapers, I couldn't stick a sheet of paper with an ad on it inside the papers before I sell them. The newspaper company would rightly complain. Same thing here. Well, maybe not exactly the same....I am not so sure this analogy works, but what the heck...you get the idea. I wish more theatres would start sending the studios bills for attached trailers!

Occasionally we'll stick another PSA at the end of the attractions if the feature is short. If we are running something long, we will drop the last PSA. We also run "Selected Short Subjects" on occasion, again depending on the feature's length and if we can get something appropriate for the genre of the feature.

And just from a logistical standpoint, even if an attached trailer were of a title we intended to book, we would want to play it, but we wouldn't leave it attached to the feature anyway -- we would move it into the attraction reel. We have a curtain close after the attraction reel and a mask ratio change before the main feature. The attraction reel is always 1.37 and the feature always gets wider even, if it is flat (except, of course, if it is pre-1952).

We advertise all our 1.85 flat pictures as being "Presented in Wide Screen Dimension." I originally wanted to call it "Wide Screen Dimension 185 as a nod to the great Dimension 150 process of the 50s. I figure if you are going to loose light and resolution because of the cropping, you might as well get some marketing mileage out of it so it comes to SOME good. Our real problem comes when trailers are in scope. We just won't run them. They all have to be flat. No problem if they are letterboxed, audiences have come to look at letterboxing as something positive. With all the TV shows and TV ads, to say nothing of DVDs that have top & bottom margins -- it's now sheik, so it doesn't bother me that the flat trailers for scope films are letterboxed in our Academy square. The important thing is that when the feature starts, the curtains and mask open WIDER.

And the last point -- we always advertise our "Show Time" and make it clear that the feature starts about 15 minutes after that posted time.

The preshow music is not part of the posted Show Time. It is usually a half hour of selected music that is timed to end precisely as the Cartoon hits the screen.

Frank
 

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Posted by Nathan Guerriero (Member # 1214) on 08-26-2003, 10:06 AM:
 
We don't really have a pre-show policy. I always run at least one trailer, but no more than three. Sometimes they are for films we are planning to play, sometimes they are films that just look interesting to me. Sometimes I play vintage trailers, sandwiched with current ones. They audiences seem to like that. Personally, I think that trailers should be sort of like stretching before a basketball game; you know, limber you up for the movie...
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-26-2003, 10:32 AM:
 
We had this one woman who showed up (in mid-July), 30 minutes after showtime in a fur coat. I ripped her ticket, directed her to her auditorium, and within 2 minutes, she came back up to me and saidm with a loungy, smokers voice "The movies started.. Why has the movie started?" I told her we only put 1 maybe 2 trailers on with no commercials, and she started throwing a fit saying "I paid to see my movie and its already half over. How can you charge me full price when I don't get to see the full show? Why don't you guys put trailers on." etc. and other stupid stuff like that. I told her I'd get my manager. She came back for the 9 showing.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-27-2003, 03:30 AM:
 
As you can see, we take some pride in our showmanship and go to some lengths to run a show in the same spirit of the grand theatres of the golden age of the movie palaces which I knew growing up. We promote it -- it's what we do - 15-18 min of prefeature and about a half hour of Preshow Stereo Concert before we even hit the screen (we even have a snipe for our preshow music -- it says "Come Early and hear great music in 6 Channel Total Surround MegaSound.") So it's not like we make a secret of it and spring it on an unsuspecting patron. The start time of the music and the prefeature and the feature are posted for all to see.

One day my co-director calls the booth and says there is a really irate lady down here who wants her money back. I asked what was the problem. She told me that the woman said we were just wasting her time. Shes said she didn't come to the theatre to see a lot of junk. I said, "What did she say? She's calling a McLauren short, junk??" JoAnne got a little concerned at the tone of my voice and said, never mind she'd take care of it. I said, "Keep her there....I am coming right down." JoAnne got really worried and said, "No, no, stay up there. I'll deal with her." Now I am yelling into the phone "Give her back her money and tell her to pick up her fat wrinkled ass and get out of our theatre....TELL HER." Of course she didn't. I said, "Memorize her face, JoAnne....I mean it. Now tell her she's not allowed to come back to our theatre again -- EVER. Tell her to go to the freakin multiplex next time she wants to see a movie....see how she'll like seeing WEST SIDE STORY at the RKO Kenmore (a grand old single that had been tortured into a horrid little 6plex). Tell her that." JoAnne who has a personallity better suited to meet and greet the public quietly told me again that she was taking care of it and that the change-over bells just rang and I should go start my projector. As I hung up I mumbled under my breath, "JoAnne better not let her back in here." And I went to start the show, which of course put me in a much better frame of mind.

And that, boys and girls, is why they keep me locked up in the booth. Lucky I can't get down easily cause I'm five long story stairways away from the floor.

Frank
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-27-2003, 11:11 AM:
 
I'm surprised by the complaints that many of you have reported, because what i experience when I attend movies is complete and total apathy, regardless of what is on the screen.

When non-trailer advertising first started appearing in NYC, the ads would get booed. Now, people seem to either accept it or simply ignore it and keep talking to their friends.

Occasionally, if there a tremendous number of trailers, you'll hear a few moans, but even that is unusual.

Slightly off topic, but related to patron complaints:
I recently tried to see The Secret Lives of Dentists at a local art house. This was the third day of the run. I noticed that all the trailers and snipes were heavily scratched, but I decided to wait for the feature. The feature had three vertical scratches down the length of the film. I can't even imagine what they did to damage the print that much in such a short time. I ran for the manager and requested my money back, but everyone else just sat there and watched the film. This isn't the first time that I've run out of the theater to complain about something, but was the only one to do so.

The only time I ever saw a movie crowd react en masse was years ago at a screening of Jaws at the Kingsway Theater in Brooklyn. I think this is before the theater was multiplexed, so we're probably talking about at least 1500 patrons. Either the sound or the picture died (I forget which) at a tense point in the film. The theater was full and the crowd went nuts. The manager of the theater came into the auditorium and was screaming at the projectionist to stop the film. The film was finally stopped, then started again with proper sound and picture, but then the crowd screamed for them to roll the film back to the point where the problem started. They finally got that accomplished, the film restarted and the crowd settled down. But even then, no one asked for their money back.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-28-2003, 01:51 PM:
 
We generally look at the length of the trailer pack, rather than on strict numbers. On average, we run 10-12 minutes of trailers, a policy strip then the feature.

Generally, this works out to 4 trailers. About the only time we'll run 5 is if a couple of them are teasers. My daughter got caught with bad feature timing one week & adjusted the schedule by running only one trailer. I found it a bit unnerving to see one preview, then the show start so quickly, as even I had become used to the routine. Given that, I'd guess a lot of our customers have, too... so we shoot for some consistency on this issue.

As with Frank, we also select trailers for shows we know, or at least feel strongly we'll be showing at that theatre. The studios are putting far too many trailers in the cans to run 'em all (do they really think anyone does???). We also pay attention to how the trailers "fit" with the rest of the show, so nothing seems uncomfortably "out of place".
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-28-2003, 08:03 PM:
 
I've been counting ads, trailers and snipes recently and I can tell you that AMC and Loews theatres in NYC have been playing up to 13. Frankly, I don't mind the trailers -- only the ads really bother me and most of the snipes bother me because IMHO, they're so aesthetically poor.
 

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Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-29-2003, 08:13 PM:
 
My preference is three trailers.

Paul Linfesty wrote:

quote:

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there was only one before STAR WARS at the Chinese, a 35mm shortie for THE WORLD's GREATEST LOVER, shown in 35mm 1.33!)

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quote:

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I saw it on Thursday, the day after STAR WARS returned following the SORCERER engagement (I attended the 5:25 pm show).

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Wow! Do you remember what size popcorn you had?
 

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Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-29-2003, 09:44 PM:
 
I didnt have refreshments. I actually bought my ticket at 5:20pm (no line - everyone else was seated already, and it was at least two-thirds full) and got a great seat 2/3 way back. Only projection flaw: one of the reels allowed to run all the way out, tail and all and we were left staring at a pure white light screen for around thirty seconds!

That week I caught STAR WARS on Tuesday at the Plitt Century Plaza (followed by the 1pm 2001: a Space Odyssey showing at the Cinerama Dome), Wednesday at the Avco Center I, and AGAIN at the Century Plaza the same day I visited the Chinese, all showings starting at 10am! Admission was 4.00 for all shows (all other movies playing at the first runs were 3.50, except the 4.00 price for BRIDGE TOO FAR).
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-30-2003, 04:39 PM:
 
Marty, 13 trailers? Man, that's a slew -- we are talking roughly about half an hour of prefeature! Me, I don't mind trailers either, but I am clearly in the minority. All of my collegues keep trying to get me to cut the number of trailers back. They really nixed my idea of playing a few classic trailers just for the historical perspective of them.

I've gotten the staff to accept up to 4 (they would really rather only three, but I outrank them); 5 seems to be their breaking point when they start whining at me. Then again, trailers for older titles are usually longer than the 2 to 2.5 min things they make today. The original trailer for GUYS AND DOLLS that I just ran clocked in at about 4.5 min! Imagine stringing 13 of THOSE together?! After the first screening, I realized it was really boring and edited it down (most of the time was taken up by Ed Sullivan blabbing about the movie and obviously reading off cue cards). Out he went. Besides, most of the younger audience kept asking each other "Who the &$#@ is Ed Sullivan?"

Frank
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 08-30-2003, 04:52 PM:
 

quote:

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"Only projection flaw: one of the reels allowed to run all the way out, tail and all and we were left staring at a pure white light screen for around thirty seconds!"

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Steve?
 

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Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-30-2003, 08:26 PM:
 

quote:

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I've gotten the staff to accept up to 4 (they would really rather only three, but I outrank them); 5 seems to be their breaking point when they start whining at me. Then again, trailers for older titles are usually longer than the 2 to 2.5 min things they make today. The original trailer for GUYS AND DOLLS that I just ran clocked in at about 4.5 min! Imagine stringing 13 of THOSE together?!

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quote:

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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Only projection flaw: one of the reels allowed to run all the way out, tail and all and we were left staring at a pure white light screen for around thirty seconds!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve?

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That's just one out of a thousand different screw-ups that you can make... sure, maybe one that is more common to changeover setups, but there are still a thousand other things you can :sex:up regardless of your film transport system.

That said, I too have been treated to a white screen at the end of a reel. A sticky splice caused a brain wrap on their platter, which caused the film to jam (no useful failsafe system) in their projector, which led to the film melting on the screen and then to me starring at their white screen.

It also took them much longer than 30 seconds to get back on screen... probably closer to 4 minutes.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-31-2003, 01:09 PM:
 
Martin said,

quote:

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"But shouldn't the decision as to how many trailers be shown be up to audience reaction and not up to the staff?"

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quote:

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I was actually a little taken aback when the movie started right away, because I wasn't expecting it. I actually think not having anything was a negative, because the audience wasn't settled in and one's eyes weren't accustomed to the darkened theater

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quote:

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Exactly -- that's why our protocol brings the house lights to "half house" setting for the last 3 minutes of the preshow music, precisely to aclimate the patrons to the theatre environment. At the very end of the preshow music, the house lights then drop to "Credits" level which brings the seating area down to 1/3rd while keeping the isle lights up slightly more. Then after the credits of the cartoon finish, everything goes to "Show" setting.

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Otherwise known as "Showmanship". Unfortunately, at some theatres, presentation quality and showmanship are lost arts.
 

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Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 09-02-2003, 06:25 PM:
 
*joining thread late*

I've been going to a lot of movies lately. And I love the trailers, but I think 4 is just right, especially with a Fandango Trailer, Policy Trailer and that stupid-ass anti-piracy trailer.

Is there a thread somewhere around here complaining about THAT???
*goes to find it*

-Scott-
 

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Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 09-03-2003, 03:00 AM:
 
Death to the Fandango Trailer!

Maybe we could kill it and Movie Tunes off in one shot.

Did I mention I love the Loews Cell Phone Ejector Seats trailer? I want one or five!
 

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Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 09-03-2003, 01:46 PM:
 
I do like Loews attention on the cell phones. If you get five, I'll dance a jig for one of them.

Is there a rant somewhere already about the Anti-Piracy trailer? I can't find it.
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-25-2003, 05:38 PM:
 

quote:

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I saw American Splendor in a local theater yesterday (first day of the run) and there were absolutely no trailers, snipes or ads. That really surprised me, but maybe they didn't have time to put it together as yet.

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Had to have been an indie arthouse. One advantage of seeing arthouse fare in an AMC, Regal, or UA is that you get a trailer pack in front of the feature.

The UA Union Square included the trailer for Le Divorce in front of L'Auberge Espagnole. Had I not seen that trailer I might not have seen Le Divorce.
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 09-28-2003, 09:35 AM:
 
Trailers are good on busy nights so the people sitting down have something to watch while there is still a line at the consession stand. Say, I'd bet people would love seeing a cartoon before the show
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 09-28-2003, 10:37 AM:
 
Pre-show content can be entertaining, as well as a significant source of revenue to the theatre. But customers should be informed of the timing, such that they can decide what time to arrive for the show. For example, a notice that "Published start times include 20 minutes of pre-show entertainment and trailers."
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 09-28-2003, 10:53 AM:
 
The policy at GCC and AMC was that shows should be started five minutes before the scheduled start time. The idea was that the filmed ads would end (and trailers would start) at the scheduled start time. Apparently this worked because NCN supplied both intermission slides and film ads. At chains which have different suppliers for each, I'm told that the slide contract often requires that the film program not start until the scheduled start time (so that the audience is more likely to see the slides).

I still say that film ads for products that aren't closely associated with the filmgoing experience (especially bad 35mm transfers from video of TV commercials) are intrusive and annoying, regardless of the start time. I don't especially like slide ads, but I can tolerate them, especially if they help to reduce ticket prices and/or improve presentation quality.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-29-2003, 06:24 AM:
 
Scott,

quote:

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I can tolerate them, especially if they help to reduce ticket prices and/or improve presentation quality

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-- in your dreams!

Frank
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-19-2003, 06:50 PM:
 
The local Register-Guard newspaper ran several articles about pre-show movie clutter in the entertainment section today. Moderators, do whatever you think you need to do if this is too much.

Previews of Coming Distractions

December 19, 2003

Some previews of coming distractions
By Lewis Taylor
The Register-Guard

At Cinemark 17, a screening of "Master and Commander" kicks off with a 21-minute mix of trailers, ads and public service announcements. Across the city at [Regal] Cinema World 8, the same film begins with 23 minutes of pre-feature promos.

Coke commercials, Estee Lauder ads, anti-drug spots and video game teasers have become as much a part of the multiplex experience as the coming attractions. And while industry experts say viewers can expect to see even more ads coming soon to a theater near them, some moviegoers already have had enough.

"The previews are fairly entertaining," says Martin Campbell, 40, of Eugene. "But personally, I don't like to pay money to watch commercials."

Campbell's sentiments are being echoed by film fans in other parts of the country. A number of different consumer advocacy groups have popped up, including the Portland-based Captive Motion Picture Audience of America, which protests "TV-like advertising" in the cinema and encourages viewers to write or call national theater chains to complain.

Paul Dergarabedian, president of the Los Angeles box-office tracker Exhibitor Relations, says in general, audiences enjoy the trailers; it's the commercials they can do without. Even so, he says, viewer discontent is not strong enough to make the ads go away.

"What are you going to do?" Dergarabedian wonders. "You can complain to the manager I suppose, but are you really not going to see 'Lord of the Rings' because they might show a Grand Am commercial before the movie?

"It's just the economics of the business, and it's manifested itself in this way."

Edward Hahn, 61, of Monroe isn't ready to embrace the ads, at least not so many of them. He says the movie theater is looking more and more like the satellite TV system he has at home. In other words, cluttered with commercials.

"I didn't' mind it when they used to just have a Coca-Cola (ad) at the beginning or an XM Radio (ad), Hahn said. "But now they're kind of overdoing it."

The European way

Along with a handful of previews, moviegoers in Eugene and Springfield can now expect a pair of public service announcements, a couple of Coca-Cola ads and half a dozen other plugs for everything from video games to all-over body spray.

"With television you can understand it because it's free," says Tom Canning, 67, of Vancouver, B.C. "You pay enough money to go to the movies without having to sit and watch that."

Terrell Falk, a spokeswoman for Cinemark, says the practice of packaging ads with movie trailers has been going on for decades in Europe. In the past, she says, American audiences were cool to the idea of seeing commercials in theaters, but they are growing to accept them the way European audiences have.

"Older people typically object more," Falk says. "Kids, on the other hand, or (those in the) 12- to 34-year-old group, they've grown up with television and it doesn't really bother them."

Falk stresses that Cinemark, which runs the theaters at Gateway Mall, runs its advertisements only before the scheduled show times. Trips to both theaters confirmed that, for the most part, commercial programming did indeed begin and end before the posted start times.

Cinema World was less exact about starting its advertisements early, starting them both before and after the scheduled show times.

Locally, screened children's movies are not immune from pre-show advertising.

While Cinemark showed fewer ads than normal during its screening of "Dr. Seuss' The Cat in the Hat," Cinema World led its showing with two public service announcements, five movie trailers and 10 com- mercials.

Not everyone is bothered by pre-movie promos. Meni Hai, 24, an Israeli exchange student at the University of Oregon who until recently worked in a movie theater in Jerusalem, says advertising is just part of going to the movies. In Israel, he says, the standard arrangement is to show two product advertisements and three film trailers.

"I don't think it (the pre-show entertainment) is supposed to be long," Hai said. "I don't think it should be more than 15 minutes (long)."

One of the few locally screened Hollywood movies to start before the 15-minute mark was a Cinemark showing of "The Cat in the Hat," which featured a 14 1/2 -minute windup.

At Eugene's art house theater, the Bijou Art Cinemas, ads are not even an issue. The two-screen cinema shows three to four trailers and zero commercials before its indie movies.

The theater does project slides advertising local businesses and artists before the lights go down, but the average pre-show at the Bijou runs eight minutes, manager Louise Thomas says.

"Besides the fact that I know our customers would hate it (commercial advertising), I've never been approached by Coke."

If the Bijou is the least commercial theater in town, Cinema World may be the most ad saturated. Based on a small sample of films screening at both Cinema World and Cinemark 17, Cinema World movies tended to include more advertising.

The protest movement

While filmgoers who are fed up with advertising would seem to have little recourse, there are a number of national organizations that have sprung up in recent years.

In addition to the aforementioned Portland group, a Web site called Stop Pre-Movie Ads - found at www .shinybluegrasshopper.com/nomovieads/ - lists ad-free movie theaters by state. A group called Commercial Alert is asking viewers to speak the words "no commercials" when a pre-movie ad is shown on screen.

Consumer advocate Ralph Nader wants theaters to be required by law to start listing the actual start times of the films. And there's a class action lawsuit pending against the Loews Theater chain that alleges consumer fraud on the part of the company.

"In business, nothing is set in stone," says Jason Thompson, director of the Captive Motion Picture Audience of America. "If theaters and studios see that their bottom lines are being adversely affected rather than enhanced by ad placement, they will re-evaluate their practices."

Lewis Taylor can be reached at 338-2512 or ltaylor @guardnet.com.



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It's not just the quantity, it's the quality

December 19, 2003

It's not just quantity, but also the ad quality

It isn't just the number of pre-movie ads that bothers some local film fans, but the type of ads being shown.

One common complaint is that many of the commercials being screened in the theater are the same ones being shown on television. Ads for GoArmy .com, Samsung and MasterCard are now showing both in theaters and at home.

"Those ads, they don't look good on the big screen, because I think they're just projected video," says Paul Dergarabedian, president of the Los Angeles box office tracker Exhibitor Relations.

"They (advertisers) may start either making the quality of these TV spots look nicer or actually creating spots primarily to be shown in theaters, making them more cinematic."

Video game makers have started doing just that, hiring the people who make movie previews to make their ads. And they've been screening these more cinematic ads both in theaters and on TV, says Eric Archer, an editor at the Ant Farm, a Los Angeles company that produces film trailers.

Ant Farm recently started making movie-style previews for other products, such computer games.

Since many viewers enjoy trailers but don't like the product ads, videogame makers may have hit upon a successful strategy. The "coolness" quotient of trailers seems only to be increasing, says Archer, who has edited trailers for "Love Actually" and the latest remake of "Peter Pan."

"Trailers used to be more of just a coming attraction. They've evolved into almost self-contained works in and of themselves, which are sometimes even events.

"Trailers for `The Lord of the Rings' trilogy or `The Matrix' trilogy or any of the `Star Wars' films, people - at least here in Los Angeles - will line up to see a movie, just because those trailers will be playing beforehand. That's definitely not something that happened 10 years ago."

Terrell Falk, a spokeswoman for Cinemark, would like to see product advertisements that screen in theaters attain a similar kind of following. In Europe, where pre-movie advertising is a common occurrence, she says theater ads have already earned such a cachet.

"The theater ads there - they're different than what you'd see anywhere else," Falk says. "They're like Super Bowl ads; they're special.

"Once the advertising industry understands, `Oh, this (theater advertising) is like doing a Super Bowl thing,' then I think it (will) be even more accepted."

- Lewis Taylor

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Chains: It's a survival issue

December 19, 2003

Chains: It's a survival issue
By Lewis Taylor
The Register-Guard

While smaller theaters such as Eugene's Bijou Art Cinemas can survive without programming commercials before their films, the big theater chains say they've been forced find other revenue streams - and that includes selling ad space.

"What we have is a wonderful facility, but it's a box, and we don't own the product; we have to lease the product," says Terrell Falk, a spokeswoman for Cinemark. "We don't own those movies, we don't have any part of it. We are just renting it. And in turn, you pay us to see it (the movie) in our beautiful box, but there is a big cost to rent that (movie)."

Not only do the multiplexes have high overheads, but they also don't earn much money during opening weekend, says Paul Dergarabedian, president of the box office tracker Exhibitor Relations. The arrangement varies from film to film and studio to studio, but in some cases theater chains must fork over as much as 80 percent of what they rake in at the box office.

"I think there's a misconception on the part of moviegoers that when a film makes $80 million in its opening weekend, that a big part of that is going to the theater, but it's not," Dergarabedian says.

"The reason a studio gets their money back first is because they ponied up the money for the marketing and the production budget. As time goes on - it's a sliding scale - the theaters start getting a bigger percentage of the box office as the film plays."

Compounding the problem: Many national giants still are hurting from a theater building boom in the 1990s that left many of them carrying more debt than they could handle, says Brandon Gray, a box office analyst for Box Office Mojo.com.

As a result, at least a dozen chains filed for bankruptcy in 2001-02, including Regal Cinemas, which operates the Cinema World multiplex in Eugene.

"They actually shot themselves in the foot, because more theaters meant that more people could see movies in the opening weekend, and that's when the studios get the biggest cut of the grosses," Gray says.

"The movies open absolutely everywhere (and) people don't have to wait for them anymore. If you go to the theater it's, `Oh, I missed the 9 o'clock. Well, there's a 9:15 starting.'

"It's very rare that you'll get an absolute sell out."

With big movies such as "The Last Samurai" and "The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King" showing locally on at least four screens, it's easy to see what Gordon is talking about. But some consumer advocates say the money woes of big chains doesn't excuse the fact that captive, paying audiences are being subjected to TV-style commercials they weren't expecting.

"Theaters are not placing ads as entertainment for their customers," says Jason Thompson of Portland's Captive Motion Picture Audience of America. "They are placing them as a desperate effort to fund the mistakes of their overexpansion and bad business practices.

"Theaters and studios have a mutually beneficial relationship. If the theaters are struggling, they need to renegotiate these relationships rather than holding their audiences captive to unwanted messages."

Regal, the country's largest chain, is hoping to short-circuit some of the criticism coming from viewers with a 20-minute pre-show that takes the place of pre-movie ads and makes no bones about what it is.

Dubbed "The 2wenty," the program starts roughly 20 minutes before show time and includes entertainment, news shorts, music videos and ads. The 2wenty already has started showing in some Portland theaters, and may debut at Cinema World sometime in 2004.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-20-2003, 04:46 PM:
 

quote:

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at [Regal] Cinema World 8, the same film begins with 23 minutes of pre-feature promos.

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quote:

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"Those ads, they don't look good on the big screen, because I think they're just projected video,"

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quote:

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And to think, one of the reasons circuits gave when they stopped buying cartoons was they didn't have time for them.

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Yah... maybe... but the revenue stream was going the wrong way... most likely a problem for the chains!

Besides, back in '87, when we stopped booking 'toons, the local depot only had a few Looneys and some old Woody Woodpecker titles around. The prints were shot and started repeating within 5 or 6 weeks. At $25/week/screen... well... I confess. I kept the money & bought me a better grade of hamburger to eat!
 

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Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 12-20-2003, 07:04 PM:
 
Cinemark starts all ads before the showtime? Um yeah, ok. I do follow this rule because these ads are so ridiculous. However, the majority of the people running our booth start the ads at the listed showtime or even later. I think ads are terrible for the theater business. It is another one of those things that will drive business away. Why can't we walk into Lord of the Rings, hearing Howard Shore's score, then the lights dim, a film trailer or two play, then sound snipes, then the feature. It's just all terribly

AJG
 

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Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 12-20-2003, 08:51 PM:
 
""You can complain to the manager I suppose, but are you really not going to see 'Lord of the Rings' because they might show a Grand Am commercial before the movie?"

Well they might still go, but decide not to buy a Grand Am after seeing it advertised in a place where there shouldn't be advertising! That's always been my rule of thumb (I boycotted both Coke and Pepsi for a year when they put commercials on rental-priced VHS movies about 15 years ago!)
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-21-2003, 01:42 PM:
 

quote:

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back in '87, when we stopped booking 'toons, the local depot only had a few

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Jack, sounds like you were one of the last hold outs, I can't imagine you had much to choose from at all. Where I lived (Cincinatti exchanges), everyone stopped running cartoons about 1976 or 77, when they were just $10. The reason I kept hearing was there wasn't enough time on the bill to run them. We regularly got new prints, especially Fox/Terrytoons and UA/DePatie-Freleng, although most of the Universal stuff was in bad shape by that late date; new prints hadn't been struck since '72, when Lantz shut down.
 

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Posted by Zach Zagar (Member # 379) on 12-21-2003, 02:50 PM:
 
When customers complain about having to watch advertisements, it seems so silly to listen to. Sure, its a little long, and no, I'm not going to buy some of the products, but goodness, sit down, relax and enjoy the show.

Cable TV is paid tv and there are a TON of commericals out there. The premium channels are the only ones w/o ads.

As for boycotting, really, c'mon, how many people will it take to actually make Pepsi or Coke give a care?

As for losing customers at the theaters... its probably a loss vs income question. I am sure in some big market locations, that the ad revenue from Screen Vision and "slides" may even rival their conession take, certainly their box office take. They may lose customers, but its less staff they require then, and still same income, yay for them, the bean counters win.

Some feel that advertising is going to be a short-term income. Look around though... I'm sure someone said that about the yellow pages, or billboards, etc. People go to the movies, they will continue to go the movies until new releases come straight to DVD. There is a SMALL group of individuals in the world who have a screen bigger than 60-70" at home. People will still come until some new technical revolution occurs, but I can't fathom what that would be.

It seems silly to lose sleep over the ads, if you bring about a class-action lawsuit, you may be just taking it a bit too far.

The more money the company that I work for makes, the better, because they can pay me more, pay my staff more, build more theaters, upgrade equipment, give me promotions etc. I know, I'm a sellout.

I do, however, think that when digital cinema is out there and going strong, it will make this situation more tolerable to most. That's another debate on how to make that work, though.
 

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Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 12-21-2003, 05:13 PM:
 
"I'll bet when Bob Allen opens his single-screen changeover carbon arc showplace in Oregon, he will revive this practice."

You got that right Gordon. Somebody has got to save the movie going public from "megaplexitis" and return showmanship and community responsibility to the exhibition field.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-22-2003, 07:34 AM:
 
it's just not all about the money for me. there are limits to what i will live with, and to what i can in good conscience foist upon others. i don't want to see that crap, and i won't work for a theater that shows it. same goes for movietunes.

if i wanted to sell out, i could do so much more profitably than by working in a theater.

carl
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 12-22-2003, 10:48 AM:
 
As far as I know, Carmike policy is 6-7 loose trailers with a ID trailer in there and then the attatched trailer.

We run in this order:
Carmike Fire Exit Ad
Screenvision ads (approx 5 mins of commercials)
6-7 loose previews
Carmike ID trailer
attatched preview
feature
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-22-2003, 12:46 PM:
 
That's why I LOVE our theater! NO slides, NO ads, INSTRUMENTAL-ONLY nonsync music, ONLY 3-4 trailers (between 6-8 minutes) before the feature (and a sound snipe if applicable), NO policy trailer nonsense, screen lights in every house and a curtain in The Big One.

THAT'S the way to run a multiplex!

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 12-22-2003, 04:32 PM:
 
Well Thomas, someone in your company has either been in exhibition for a long time or is actually listening to the patrons. You're blessed buddy.
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 12-22-2003, 04:55 PM:
 
Good thing for this "Film Snob" AMC isn't in Eugene. Otherwise he would bitch about that "Silence is Golden" snipe sponsored by Best Buy, Sprint PCS and Samsung! AMC introduced that snipe in front of Elf.

The running order at AMC is now:

(Video)
MovieTunes clips mixed with rolling stock
"Now ... the preshow countdown!"
Rolling stock continues
"Thanks ... for watching the AMC MovieWatcher Network!"
(Start 35mm projector)
Exit snipe, if required by local law
"Coming Soon" snipe
5-6 trailers -- all with the green band removed
"Silence is Golden" snipe
"Feature Presentation" snipe
Feature

If there is an attached trailer it runs before "Silence is Golden", not after.
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-22-2003, 05:00 PM:
 
Jeremy is telling me I HAVE to post this because it is just so awful. A local theater chain (Studio Movie Grill) used to have the projectionist make a live announcement through the sound system via microphone in the booth before each show "welcoming" people to the theater and announcing specials from the kitchen. Jeremy saved some of the announcements. Listen if you dare! (Seriously, it's literally embarassing to listen to, but if you choose to listen, note the top notch professional quality and the projector noise in the background. )

When this company first opened the policy was to play the opening music from 2001 while flicking the house lights on and off, then do the silly announcement. You can just imagine how embarassingly corny that was to the audience!!! Indeed audience members would crack jokes about how stupid it was.

Fortunately the mega-lame "light show" was dropped as well as the announcements. Now customers walk into an auditorium with custom made slides that far surpass the crap Screenvision put out, the non-sync is also a custom job of instrumental movie music that has been carefully edited together into one continuous overture and slightly compressed so the quiet parts are audible, then 1 minute before the show the curtains are closed and then reopened where exactly 3 trailers run, then straight into the feature. I think it is now the only remaining place in town that doesn't slap their customers in the face with commercials. They have come a long way from the days of cheesey intros and bad light shows.
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 12-22-2003, 05:58 PM:
 
I remember going to the Studio Movie Grill once while they did that. I can't describe how incredibly corny it was, and the snickers from the other audience members. But holy cow! I thought it was just recorded, not live! That's even MORE lame, but as an AUDIENCE member, I'd rather sit though that than 30 minutes of Ad's snipes, and trailers with green bands cut off
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-22-2003, 06:00 PM:
 
Is there a reason why he felt the need to say "Studio Movie Grill" five times in that announcement? Do the customers there have trouble remembering where they are?
 

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Posted by Dennis Udovich (Member # 1066) on 12-22-2003, 09:49 PM:
 
The running order for Marcus Theatres

MovieTunes played pre-show
Cinema Screen slides are shown

Start 5 minutes prior to show time...
MovieTickets.com (30 sec)
Pepsi (30 or 60 sec)
NCN header (10 sec)
NCN ads (2 to 5 min)
4 to 5 trailers (8 to 10 min)
Marcus Policy trailer
Feature

While I never have been a fan of pre show advertising ... I can't help but look at the bottom line. This income is above and beyond. We do get a few customers bitching about the ads, but I get that even for movie trailers.
 

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Posted by Ethan Harper (Member # 472) on 12-22-2003, 11:16 PM:
 
Brad,

I just listened to the clip above and thought it was an awesome concept. I really LOVED it. It was very exciting. I'll be sure to try and implement that before every show I start at the theater I currently am currently working at. That clip rules and the guy that is narrating on it seems so excited and sounds like he is definitely putting a lot of emotion on it. He should be the new trailer voice guy. that's be dopest Yo! phiggidy phat phu!

ta dah'.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-23-2003, 12:43 AM:
 
...from Tim:

quote:

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Jack, sounds like you were one of the last hold outs... everyone stopped running cartoons about 1976 or 77, when they were just $10. The reason I kept hearing was there wasn't enough time on the bill to run them.

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It was $25/wk by the time we stopped... and I only did it because I had just bought my FIRST DRIVE-IN (!) and tried to do things just like when I was growing up at the one I worked at back then. It didn't take too long to figure out that the audience here didn't care enough to make it worthwhile... something about the prints looking a lot less torn up on the Cartoon Channel!
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-24-2003, 12:23 PM:
 
Robert: The theater I'm at was an old General Cinemas, so it has all the "trimmings." Our company is very small with only two locations. I guess they feel all that "nonsense" is not worth the income it would bring in, but I'm sure that with more locations, it would be on the horizon.

In the mean time, it's a whole lotta fun! Patrons much prefer to come into a calm, quiet, pleasant auditorium and still be able to sit and talk without some loud-mouth Kris Eric Stevens or whatever telling them what music they should buy. The screen lights make even the dusty shoebox auditoriums look elegant, and you should see the excitement that the opening of the curtain causes!

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-24-2003, 12:58 PM:
 
Thomas, are you at PGA?
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-24-2003, 08:13 PM:
 
Tim - Nope. Colonial Promenade in Orlando. PGA was taken over by BMC. I never went there when it was GCC or BMC...

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-25-2003, 09:56 PM:
 
Oh, I saw the Royal Palm Beach on your pic, and just figured that was the one you were closest to. I used to service Colonial Prom, too. There was a guy there who was pretty sharp. He used to service some of his own theatres on the side (like the Cinema Grills). Can't remember his name, but he was in bad health when the theatres shut.
 

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Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 12-26-2003, 01:05 PM:
 
Hey Thomas,

Are your screen lights the traditional GCC blue or the new GCC red? Or another color. You should get Adam to change the listing on your theatre over on Cinematour.com. The database lists you guys as closed. And also, take some pics of your cinema and send 'em in !!!!!

Eric
-Still missing GCC 3 years later........
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-26-2003, 02:21 PM:
 
GCC used blue screen lights? The GCCs where I used to fill in (three theatres and the corporate screening room) had red screen lights. Of course, the screen lights were mostly unused at this point, since they had been showing slides for the last few years.

Thomas: send in pics! I assume that you have the standard 1980s GCC booth package (AW3 platters, V5 projectors with one V8 on the largest scree, Xetron/Kelmar automation, funky curtain timers, etc.), correct?
 

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Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 12-28-2003, 01:15 AM:
 
My local GCC (Southland - Hayward, CA) used blue screen lights until 1991. Then, they remodeled the theatre and painted the gray metallic walls red, installed the comfy blue GCC seats, and changed the screen lights to red. Looked VERY nice. (See Northpark pics here on Film-Tech.) In the last remaining years though, they didn't use the screen lights. (slides). The theatre closed in 1999.
 

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Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 12-30-2003, 12:26 PM:
 
I popped in a little late on this subject but I'll comment anyway. As far as trailers, we run one or two. Always the next feature, and it we can get the trailer, our "coming soon" selection. The only policy trailer we run is a 1 minute gift certificate snipe during the December holidays. Maximum wait for the feature is 6 minutes, and usually only 2-1/2.

We had a curtain some years ago but it was in questionable shape when we replaced the (very old) screen. Everything is still there to install a new curtain if and when we do.

We run seven red spots on the screen from the ceiling. Looks nice and I run it with a big old manual reostat from the booth, as well as the house lights. I run the screen lights up full with black/white graphics credits, or maybe halfway if credits have video, out-takes, or other things to see. The presentation is nice and the patrons like it.

Our patrons told us years ago that they DO NOT like commercials onscreen. We run an old 520 seat single screener, x-over booth, and our patrons come back week after week. Since they pay our bills we listen to them. They don't mind our maximum of two trailers.
 

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