Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Crazy Customer, Bad Manager?

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Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 07-13-2003, 12:37 AM:

If this happened to your employee what would you have done or do my managers just not care?

A customer wanted tickets to a movie that had started a half hour ago, but he still wanted to go anyway after arguing with me about how all the other movies sucked and he still wanted to see Bruce Almighty. Then he gave me his credit card and it went even further downhill from there. I asked for an ID because his signature was non existent. He didnt have one, so i refused to sell him tickets, and then he started grabbing things from my side of the glass like my highlighter and trying to sign his card when obviuosly a highlighter isnt going to work and he's swearing at me the whole time and I know I should have called security but I really didnt think it would get as bad as it did, and so he continues swearing at me and tells me to swipe his f***ing card and all sorts of other great choice words and he ends up punching the glass and flicking me off and he storms inside. One of our employees was in line behind him and asked me if I was ok, but Iwasnt. I gave my coworker his tickets and went into the count room and was freaking out and crying and everything. Jeff (my co-worker) went and told the managers that the man by the cash machine went crazy on me and punched the glass and what not, and the managers did nothing. Then one of the box employees came out and told them also so then they decided oh its not a joke. So the guy heard them and was moaning to himself and then we all guess he left because we didnt see him after that. but I was crying for like 15 minutes and I dont cry. I dont. and I couldnt talk for another 20 minutes. It was awful. Most people are gracious when you ask for an ID on their credit card. Now I am afriad to ask, but I still do.

I really shouldn't be treated this way and no one did a thing about it. They didn't even care that it happened and it scared the other box office people just by listening to it. I am 20 and five foot nothing and this guy was big and he was 30ish and angry and no one did a thing about it. I mean, I handled it the way I should have, said my manager, but still what is wrong with people like that?

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-13-2003, 12:58 AM:

when you have a situation like that it is sometimes best to not push the situation beyond a certain point. you did do the right thing since how do we know that the credit card is his. As far as management goes they should have had security keep an eye on the guy for further problems. When you deal with the public you have to expect the unexpected. This guy may not have been mad at you but something else was fueling his anger. Don't let the situation bother you because you may never encounter that again. Some people think the world revolves around them and could care less if they let other people suffer there anger.

Posted by Mike Pennell (Member # 1692) on 07-13-2003, 01:07 AM:

Kristin, I would have, as i have done it before, 86ed the guy. His business could be had elsewhere. Rude customers need to be put in their place. They do not own the place. If security was not called the police definately should have been. Dont let asses like this guy get you down.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-13-2003, 01:09 AM:

I would have called the police and had the gentleman banned from the property without any hesitation. NO ONE disrespects a member of any staff that I manage period. If you do not back up your staff and go to bat for them you will lose thier respect and they will not feel appreciated. This person had no right acting the way he did. He should have been dealt with. If other customers see this type of thing and nothing is done about it they may not feel safe in your theatre. Not dealing with an obviously out of control individual who has threatened a staff member, attempted to destroy property, and stolen items is management done horribly horribly wrong.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-13-2003, 01:25 AM:

That is true. THe situation could warrent the police but it could take upwards of 20 minutes for the cops to show up depending on your area. It is up to management and security to keep the situation under control. Sometimes a situation can defuse its self without having to put yourself, your security, your employees and your custumers in a dangerous situation. You have to remember you don't underestimate anyone. If you confront these situations be prepared for the unexpected.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2003, 01:36 AM:

Back when I was managing theaters I always stood behind my employees. That guy (like many I encountered in my days) would've gotten a nice public removal from the theater by me...and I'm not exactly 7 feet tall and menacing either. If the patron was beyond what I felt I could handle, then there are other options such as letting him into the movie and calling the police behind his back to boot his butt out of there. [evil]

It's all part of the job. I worked for some crappy managers when I was young and clearly remember the way they treated the employees. As a result, I always found myself firmly supporting the guys on the front lines. After all, without them there is no theater! A manager simply HAS to back up his staff. If he doesn't, then the staff won't respect him.

Some customers are just assholes. Don't let them get to you.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2003, 02:12 AM:

Many of the managers I've worked with like to hide in the office nearly 100% of the time. Of course I honestly can't say what goes on since I am in the booth ALL THE TIME... well some of the time.... OK once in a blue moon. They would usually leave the office door open though, but it wasn't anywhere near the box office/registers. But 95% of the time, they were in the office. Shouldn't good managers be roaming around during the sets?

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 07-13-2003, 02:23 AM:

People can get really hot-headed, especially nowadays. I always try to put things in perspective for them - like - is a movie ticket really worth getting arrested for? Depending on the situation I try to judge the outcome and what is the best way to handle it. After all, customers usually will calm down and become return customers depending on HOW A SITUATION IS HANDLED, NOT WHAT CAUSED THE SITUATION IN THE FIRST PLACE. The only exception is when alcohol is involved, or the person is beligerent.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-13-2003, 03:38 AM:

I agree totally with Sean's assessment. We back up our staff 100%. In return, we ask only that they act within their training. We don't want to be embarassed by finding out (after the fact) that we went to bat for the employee, only to find that the staff member had gone past his/her training and had done something stupid without asking first. Our responsibility is to make sure we're available to deal with anything the employee isn't sure about. Past that however, if our staff is taking crap from a "member of the public", we tend to deal with the problems short and fast.

A customer is always the customer, but they are NOT always "right", and we don't let them abuse us or our staff on that "all-encompansing" generic premise.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-13-2003, 04:11 AM:

I hear what Brad is saying I have dealt with many many "guests" who felt they could break every single rule of proper moviegoing. I have confronted every single person i caught in my theatres breaking our rules. It may not be a good thing but I am not really afraid of anyone. I have been threatened to have my house burned down, my family murdered, my ass kicked etc. etc. but I dont back down from these people if need be I will excuse myself and call the police. If i had to throw you out from my theatre once you were never allowed back. period. I would have the police get your name and adress and I would send certified mail a letter stating that you were not allowed to enter out private property and if you did you would be arrested and prosecuted for trespassing. If the person was under 18 I would send it "To The Parents Of..." I dont imagine that I would be able to remember everyone but I figure if someone came back in they would be on thier best behavior so as not to get noticed. I never had another problem from anyone that I handled in that matter.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-13-2003, 04:33 AM:

quote:
We don't want to be embarassed by finding out (after the fact) that we went to bat for the employee, only to find that the staff member had gone past his/her training and had done something stupid without asking first.

Oh absolutely! I should've clarified that in my post. Fortunately for me bad employees were pretty rare. Being we always tried to treat them fairly and with respect, we tended to get a good crew all working as a big team together. Of course it helped that we were not "forcing" respect by using the old "Mr.White" and such. We held a laid back friendly first name basis with our employees and I can't think when it ever backfired on us. It also helped that when we needed new hires, we went to the employees and said "do you have any friends who would like to work here?" Generally good employees hung out with other quality people. [Smile]

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 07-13-2003, 05:44 AM:

Great idea- the certified letter warning of prosecution for trespass. thanks

- Kevin

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-13-2003, 07:01 AM:

here is basically what I used...

----------
Dear (Persons Name)

Please be aware that due to your actions on (date of incident) you are no longer welcome to enter the private property located at (address) the (theatre name) Theatre. If you are witnessed entering the property you will be subject to arrest and prosecution for trespassing.

Thank You,

---------
When you recieve the reciept from the post office file it along with a copy of the letter you will need it to prove that you "trespassed" this person in the event that they return.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 07-13-2003, 08:54 AM:

Maybe this is a stupid question, but why would a merchant need an ID in order to accept a customer's credit card? If the card is stolen, doesn't the liability rest with the credit card company and not the merchant? [Confused]

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 07-13-2003, 09:15 AM:

Yep it is a stupid question. Hey it's ok for me to buy stolen goods because the origonal owners should have been more careful in protecting their property and it's insured any way. [Roll Eyes]

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 07-13-2003, 09:16 AM:

You would need to consult the merchant agreement as to what the policy is when presented with an unsigned card which the customer offers to sign then and there. It certainly would make logical sense to request a photo ID but I don't know what the official rules say.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 07-13-2003, 09:55 AM:

If the merchant wants to get paid for the sale, it has to be shown that the employee in charge of the transaction did all the things that the credit company asks the merchant to do... Including getting ID from the purchaser if there is any question as to the identity of the person.

If the merchant (employee) doesn't do those things, the credit company can refuse to pay off. One or two of those won't be big problem but they can add up.

Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 07-13-2003, 12:17 PM:

The owner of my company showed me first hand how to deal with this. At one of our video stores a man flipped out regarding late fees and as soon as a curse exited his lips, Bob Fridley who was 86 at the time, came out of the back room where he was organizing merchandise. He said nobody talks to his staff that way and as soon as they are unreasonable and swear they are no longer a customer. The man continued his rant and asked for the owners number... he felt a little sheepish when informed he was speaking with him. That gave me the courage as a manager to know I can back my staff 100% and the corporate office will back me. As soon as a customer cusses I tell my staff to end communication and get me or an assistant. I won't even say thank you or goodbye after they are asked to leave. When a person is at that point, they will only escalate more if allowed to continue. If they won't leave, call the police.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 07-13-2003, 03:10 PM:

Well, what can I say..?

You're gonna encounter jerks at the box office every once-in-a-while and there's nothing you can do to prevent that from happening. I wouldn't get too bent out of shape about it. Those kinds of things used to enliven my day. Still, I don't believe your manager(s) were correct to minimize the effect it had on you.

I think you did all the right things in terms of checking for a signature and refusing to sell if you didn't find things in order. The guy flipped out and that's that. Hopefully, you won't get so shaken by it after it has happened a couple of times but it's certainly understandable. I've had my fair share of run-ins and I'm a tall but very thin guy -- a total lightweight -- so I tend to avoid feuds wherever possible.

You have to ask yourself whether you feel reasonably safe in the box office enclosure: This guy successfully got hold of a highlighter. What else could he have grabbed onto? What could he have inserted? It's unlikely that a theatre will change the design/layout of its box office if you complain or refuse to work there. So you're either willing to work under those conditions or you aren't.

Things I remember doing when I worked in the box...

1. Serve one customer at a time -- but be aware of who else is waiting in line. Be mindful of people who are constantly looking at their watch or tapping their feet (with arms folded) or throwing their hands into the air and stuff like that. Those are potential problems and require extra-special handling, in my opinion.

2. Eye contact and smiling helps to avoid problems -- there's an element of sincerity that short-circuits people feeling like a number and getting a good look at a customer also makes it easy to identify troublemakers later.

3. Serve people quickly -- most angry customers I dealt with were upset by having to wait in a line. They're angry at themselves for improper planning, but that doesn't make your life any easier. This requires mastering whatever box office system you are using and also a streamlining of customer handling.

4. Repeat the order before printing tickets. I've solved many problems this way. Keep payment on the counter until they are satisfied with the tickets and change they received. Keep your hands visible at all times and make efficient, deliberate movements. It could help if security video playback ever becomes necessary. (A tip from a casino worker.)

5. Use a drop box (or slot) for $50 and $100 bills. During busy periods, drop batches of $20 bills, too.

6. Unless you are in a very secure box office, avoid standing within "reaching" distance of customers. I always stood about a foot away from the counter. Stand, don't sit -- Standing gives you a greater sense of presence and also tends to make you more alert. If you are short, then get something to stand on.

7. Do regular "radio checks" if you are working alone in the box. See what happens if you go silent for a while. Let people know the rhyme-and-reason behind your radio checks. That way if they don't hear from you they might consider that a problem has occurred.

8. Believe it or not, I worked several weeks in a box office without ever knowing that there was a phone inside of it. That's because the box office extension never rang -- kind of odd, now that I think of it -- and I never needed to call anyone. It's a good thing there were no emergencies during that period or we could have had an avoidable tragedy. Know what's in the box office with you.

9. When presented with a credit card, feel free to use the person's surname (last name) when addressing them. Personal touches like this don't necessarily slow down the process and they go a long way.

I'm not suggesting that Kristen was unfriendly or unprofessional. I think she did the right things (as I have said). It's simply a case of not getting to talk about the box office very often. So I'm getting it all out of my system. Hope nobody minds.

Bottom line: you have to be a real jerk to attack the employee who's going the extra mile. Fast, friendly and professional service short-circuits a lot of problems.

[ 07-13-2003, 04:46 PM: Message edited by: Manny Knowles ]

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 07-13-2003, 04:09 PM:

Kristin, I'm sorry that you managers didn't back you and help you when you needed it. But it sounds like you co-workers are your friends and care about you. [Smile]

What I have learned from watching many managers is never argue with your employees in front of customers.

If the customers sees the manager arguing with the employee, then the customer knows something is wrong and will continually persist that he or she is right.

Manager should always back employees, if the employee is wrong, then at a later time discuss what he or she did wrong.

Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 07-13-2003, 10:50 PM:

Scott,
Oridnarily when you receive your credit card you are supposed to sign the back of it immediately. When you make a purchase with the card the clerk is "supposed" to flip over the back and compare your signature to the one on the card. Some do, some don't, but I have noticed it getting better lately. Some stores will go so far as to have the clerk key in the last 4 digits on the card, or the 3-digit confirmation code on the back (varies - 3 digits for visa) just to prove they at least LOOKED at the card.

In the case of this example the customer had not signed the card. It would then be appropriate for any clerk doing their job to request some form of ID, preferably a photo ID, to prove that you are the person who's name is on the card. I would take the extra step at this time to inform the customer that if they sign their card this nuisance will not be repeated. Many customers just do not pay attention and do not realize they have to sign their card on the back - it is for their own protection that they do.

Yes, the cardholder's liability is limited in most cases if the card is stolen, but the card company may come back to the vendor during their investigation and want to know why the clerk did not verify the card somehow. It is very easy to use a credit card without signing as well. You could steal a credit card and go on a nice trip across the country. Stick the card in the gas pump, choose credit, fill 'er up and go - no questions asked. If you choose debit you have to enter a PIN, but not when you choose credit. Yes, there are limits. People with large RV's will find it very annoying that the pump will automatically shut down when your fuel total reaches $50. Most RV's hold much more than this. You will also find that you cannot re hit that pump to finish the fill-up, and sometimes you cannot pull up to the next pump either - you may end up going to the next gas station up the road to finish the job....

This big long winded explanation just basically shows that there are a lot of steps going on to insure the safety of your cards, and those clerks are just doing their job trying to protect you from fraud. Be glad they care!

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 07-13-2003, 11:02 PM:

I never sign the back of my credit cards. Instead, I write in clear print "SEE PHOTO ID". Very rarely am I asked for photo ID, but sometimes I am. This just proves that less and less merchants (that I visit) are checking the back of credit cards.

Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 07-14-2003, 12:32 AM:

Well I am what is known as the "Box Office Supervisor" at our theatre and I am basically responsible for what happens during my shift in there and thats where I work every day. I have an answer or ever question and believe me, my employees check for ID, if we didnt I wouldnt have had that problem. Thanks for all the help it is much appreciated, I have yet to even get an "i'm sorry" from my GM who was working that night! But I guess you cant expect that from some people, I suppose this means our management has something to work on.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 07-14-2003, 01:30 AM:

when the card says "see id" i ask for it, and without fail the customer gets a surprised look and says "wow, thanks, nobody ever asks to see it." so much for that.

i've been asked to stand while selling tickets, but it just doesn't work for me. i'm on the tall side and it's not ergonomic. when you're sitting, one size fits all.

carl

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 07-14-2003, 02:10 AM:

The pubs in the city where I live have a 'banned from one, banned from all' scheme. It works like this: if a customer misbehaves, refuses to leave when asked or is abusive to staff then wherever possible his/her picture will be taken. The picture is then circulated to all the licensed premises in York and (s)he is banned, for life, from ever setting foot in one of the city's pubs again.

If such a scheme applied to entertainment venues (e.g. cinemas and theatres) as well, you'd have the ideal way of dealing with arseholes of the sort Kristin encountered.

Posted by Hillary Charles (Member # 769) on 07-14-2003, 03:32 PM:

Like Joe, I do not sign my cards. I write, "DEMAND PHOTO ID" on the signature strip, and like Carl noted, am very surprised the few times those instructions are actually followed.

Reasonable people should be happy you're looking out for their (credit card) interests. Once someone flies off the handle like that, they shouldn't be allowed into the theater. Imagine the disruption someone like that could have caused during the movie.

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 07-14-2003, 05:42 PM:

One point of interest in regards to the credit card thing:

I have had to deal with chargebacks at the theatre level for the past couple of years (I love Credit Cards oh so much!) Every single one of my employees ask for a picture I.D. when accepting a credit card for a purchase (no exceptions). Out of the million+ people that I have dealt with in the last few years, I think I have had 4 total that got upset over the ID thing and that was because they did not have a picture ID on them. (Of course I ask them how they got to the theatre, when they say they drove a car, I ask them for their driver's license, when they say they don't have one, I tell them I don't sell tickets to criminals).

Anyways, banks are getting better with including a photo ID on the actual Credit Cards now, so less pain for us.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 07-14-2003, 06:33 PM:

My Debit/credit card has my picture on it. Tellers are happy when they see it on there.

Posted by Tom Fermanian (Member # 1094) on 07-14-2003, 06:51 PM:

We don't get much problems with credit cards as filmgoers HAVE to go to the Theatre ATM ticket dispensing machine, They do all the transactions themselves, card swiping etc., The machine electronically approves, if the card was reported stolen, machine will refuse transaction. If not it will approve. We have had disputes on some cards weeks later, but everytime, mastercard & visa Had to fork over to us, once the card is swiped, & approved, too bad...
This is in Canada by the way, don't know if it applies to USA.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 07-15-2003, 06:47 PM:

It seems to me that people check IDs mostly in shopping malls and around the holidays. Every other time people could care less what my signature looks like.

My favorite thing to do is hold my ID out and see if they check it... some people do it when they realize "Oh yeah... right... I'm supposed to check IDs."

But I'm sorry Kristin, that you got one of those customers. And I'm sorry you have one of those managers.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-17-2003, 03:12 AM:

Credit card transactions have become a good 30% of our business. We recently converted to a system that processes the card transaction online. When the card is approved, the tickets immediately print along with the customer and merchant receipts. At the concession, we have an Epson thermal roll printer that spits out the transaction receipts very quickly.

An average card transaction runs from 3 to 5 seconds. Add to that the ability to go up to $35 without a customer signature & the transaction speed becomes quite comparable to cash.