This is topic The homeless, are they in YOUR backyard? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 08-05-2003, 12:28 AM:
 
Since I can remember, the staff and I have always joked about a homeless man living in our compactor. It was funny, we said no to throw away your log-ins or he will know your name and such. And that was another reason why we couldn't go back there alone, ever. Well recently it came to my attention that there actually IS a homeless person living in our compactor area. Theres a futon matress, blanket and a soggy taco every once in a while from the taco bell in our parking lot. Now I talked to my GM about it and we went to check it out, and apparently only one person ever saw the guy and he was sleeping at the time. What should we do because obviously he isn't supposed to be there. But I still feel bad about him being "removed." It really mkes a lot of people uncomfortable to takeout the trash and well, what should we do?
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-05-2003, 12:54 AM:
 
Contact your local United Way or Goodwill. They should be able to help this man directly or contact others who can. Too often when someone sees a homeless person, they just call the cops and the cops just cart the guy off to the nearest homeless shelter -and that's only if the fellow is willing to go there. Most homeless people believe shelters are dangerous and are afraid they'll lose what little possessions they have left there.

Many homeless people need specialized care. A significant portion have various mental illnesses, all with different treatment requirements. The United Way funds many programs that can treat and house mental disabled homeless people and those with substance abuse problems. Others simply need to find someplace willing to take them in and give them a new start. Goodwill is great organization for doing that. The Goodwill store in my city employs a fairly large group of people who are learning valueable trades rather than living on the street.

As cold as it can get up there in Minnesota, I would not put off calling one of those organizations. The weather is the biggest threat to a homeless person. Hopefully they can help out this guy and give back some of his dignity.
 

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Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-05-2003, 01:32 AM:
 
Also try the Salvation Army.
 

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Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-05-2003, 08:22 AM:
 
Me personally? I would toss the mattress and blanket in the compactor and compact away.

You should also check under your screens before securing the building at night. They tend to be hibernating areas for the homeless.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 08-05-2003, 08:45 AM:
 
We operate several shopping mall theaters, and anyone who's operated shopping malls in general knows they are a magnet for people with "unconventional" lifestyles. One particular mall had a full time customer who was apparently a disturbed Viet Nam vet in an electric wheelchair. One night we decided to have a private screening for a handfull of us, and this guy asked if he could come in. Knowing he was prone to fairly violent behavior we reluctantly said OK to avoid an argument. Everything was fine until he began openly masturbating halfway through the film. Although amusing initially, I finally got my radio and quietly called security. This joker led them on a 30 mph chase through the empty mall in his electric chair before they finally cornered him and we turned him over to the cops. Outcome--it was 6 months before we saw him again! I guess the VA hospital got tired of him and turned him lose again.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-05-2003, 09:40 AM:
 
An asst. manager of a Starbucks told me this. There was a homeless man that would come in every few days. He would sit outside for a few hours. The manager of the Starbuck had a meeting with the asst. manager on why the electric bill was shooting up in the last few months. It turned out that that homeless man was recharging his chair every few days at the outside table. I have seen that happen twice since I moved to NYC. Keep an eye on your electric outlets.
 

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Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 08-05-2003, 10:11 AM:
 
Just go on top of the roof and throw used projection bulbs at the bum.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-05-2003, 10:13 AM:
 
I agree that a social services agency like the Salvation Army, Volunteers of America, Goodwill, Open Door Mission, etc. should be contacted to see if they can help the individual. If the person is threatening or violent, the police should be called.

Be careful. Recall that accused terror bomber Eric Rudolph was just captured on May 31 "dumpster diving" in Murphy, North Carolina:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,88259,00.html
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 08-05-2003, 11:03 AM:
 
This is a problem cause by the demise of the all night movie theater. Back in Chicago, and I'm talking back to the 50's and 60's, there were a couple of all night movie houses. In fact they may have been open 24 hours if not just closed for a couple hours to clear the place out. Anyway, for .50 homeless people had a place to sleep for the night. The shows ran with brief intermissions and you could sit through as many shows as you liked back then. We need to bring back those good old days, who'll be the first to stay open all night
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-05-2003, 11:18 AM:
 
In Los Angeles, up until the early 90's. They had three theatres that ran all night for $1.25- $1.50. The Cameo, Arcade and the Optic theatres would change programs on Wednesday, so you could see the old program of 4 features and then see the new set of 4 features for one price. During the 70's in Hollywood the Mann's Hollywood and the Pacific's Pix ran all night. But they only ran double-features.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-05-2003, 12:53 PM:
 
Re the electric wheelchair

How much does a charger for one of those draw? Seems a bit incredible that it would be noticable on the bill amidst the normal fluctuations caused by how many espressos and lattes made and weather variations changing the A/C draw.
 

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Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 08-05-2003, 01:04 PM:
 
I agree Steve. It sound like one of those stories that you hear from someone who knows someone who was there. I am guessing that it has been exagrated a bit.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-05-2003, 02:07 PM:
 
why not make a deal with the dude to operate the compactor whenever necessary as "rent"? a resume-stuffer wouldn't hurt. generally a couple nights a week we get some campers outside the doors at night. we don't really have a problem with this, as long as they don't leave a mess and don't block all the doors (someone might be working late/early). sometimes the neighbors call the cops though. a few homeless people have befriended members of the staff and get favors like free coffee and popcorn and such. you have to watch out about breeding dependence though.

carl
 

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Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 08-05-2003, 02:42 PM:
 
The best solution is to throw such a person into the compactor and select "paper thin/well done". Ensure that your property is not inviting to these bums. Harrass them, run them off, have repeat offenders arrested and make sure to press all possible charges. Do whatever it takes to pass and use any laws that will make it clear to even the most deranged homeless person that they are not welcome on your property or in your town. Follow that up by refusing to provide shelter facilities. Eventually these bums will get the hint and leave. Where they go is not your concern. Anywhere else will do.

That's what we do here in Sin City, and that's one of the reasons why we're listed as one of the best cities to live (by Money magazine), and also listed as one of the meanest cities for homeless people (by the National Coalition for the Homeless). Works for us!
 

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Posted by Will Kutler (Member # 770) on 08-05-2003, 03:37 PM:
 
Homeless is a varied problem. For those who want and truly need help, there are several resources available.

But there are also many homeless that are just plain bum lazy. A good example is Tucson, AZ.

For several years, the panhandlers ruled the sreets. Some would hold up signs saying "will work for food". When offered work, many of these homeless would laugh! In fact, there was one very well known pan-handler who, after a days work of begging, was observed getting into a fairly new luxury car that was parked in a nearby lot!

There are several neighborhoods and art shopping districts in Tucson that the community and business owners have pourd tons of effort and $$ into revitalizing. And in come the homeless, filthy, obnixous and harass business owners and their customers. Although the City has done much to get them off the streets, organizations like the ACLU come to the homeless defense and argue their "rights" to camp out on sidewalks and block the enterances to businesses!

Furthermore, on many occasions, local business and the newsmedia and local government have held job fairs to help the homeless. How many homeless do you think made any attempt to take advantage of these community sponsored attempts at helping them !

And what really pisses me off is the fact that many homeless profess to be Vietnam Vets, when they were actually never in the US Armed Forces to begin with!

Also, I did volunteer at our local Community Food Bank. It was amazing to see just how many people in need were not at all grateful for what they were getting! Much of what I saw was people saying "you owe me", and being picky about the contents of their donated food!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-05-2003, 05:28 PM:
 
Again, I have to underscore the fact that many if not the prevailing majority of homeless people are mentally ill. They don't have the same capabilities of logic (or even the grasp of reality) held by most "normal" people. So it is very presumptuous to assume "if they really want help they'll go get it."

Concerning Las Vegas, Money magazine must be rating Las Vegas only by what they experience from the penthouse levels of the Bellagio Hotel. In spite of being a signmaker, I would not want to live there and would not want to bring any kids there on a vacation. You can't walk two steps in that town without seeing lots of flyers for hookers littering the sidewalk.

Finally, it is easy to make fun of homeless people or just get pretty damned disgusted with them. I felt that way a lot living in New York. I recall things like waiting in the Staten Island Ferry terminal for the next boat and having no place on the benches to sit. Some bum sleeping on one of them let a urine stream roll down the whole damned thing. But what do you do? Kill the guy? My hatred is more appropriately directed to the greedy bastards mismanaging this country and allowing guys like that to have to sleep on the bench in the first place.

Put a homeless man in a compactor or shredder. Nah. Lets throw some Enron and Worldcom executives in there instead. That would actually be appropriate.
 

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Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 08-05-2003, 06:05 PM:
 
Last night I viewed another segment of Rick Burns' documentary on New York City, concerning the Great Depression of the 1930's, which showed hundreds of men, most wearing white collars, ties, suitjackets and fedora hats, lined up for blocks to receive a bowl of hot soup and a sandwich in wintertime New York. These men were homeless, part of the many millions of unemployed. New York City was the first to deal with their plight, by methods which Franklin Roosevelt initiated nationally in the dministrations' New Deal.

Today, despite predictions of an economic recovery, the numbers of unemployed are still growing, and families with children are being made homeless through massive job layoffs and rising rents.

Living on the streets will affect any individual's physical and mental health adversely. Without health insurance, sanitation, laundry and eating facilities, one looks and smells bad, cannot appear for an interview, loses self-respect and hope. [NYC, like most US cities, lacks public toilets; those in the subways were closed years ago.] Anti-social, self-destructive and criminal tendencies creep in and grow stronger, until they erupt and the working public becomes aware.

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And what really pisses me off is the fact that many homeless profess to be Vietnam Vets, when they were actually never in the US Armed Forces to begin with!

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The V.A.’s program, known as Capital Asset Realignment for Enhanced Service, or CARES, was launched last year in response to criticism that the agency was holding onto older, expensive facilities. The restructuring is meant to address the growing veterans’ populations in the South and Southwest.

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Does "CARES" really CARE???
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-06-2003, 08:58 AM:
 
Asheville, NC is a new home for transient types. I went downtown a few months ago, and was dismayed to see how many people were sitting on the sidewalks begging for change. I got cursed by a 20-25 year old guy because I was ignoring his requests for a quarter.

I was downtown yesterday and noticed that there are still many people just hanging around the parks and various public areas. Not many folks walking between the businesses either.

In a previous post, I saw the homeless remarks about working for food. Same thing here. A friend of mine offered a guy with a sign a job raking his yard. It was fall, and it needed to be done every few days as the leaves fell. It takes about an hour to do a good job--I've done it--and this guy initially showed up, hemmed and hawed around playing with the rake handle--and left--taking the rake. We saw him later that week back on the street with his sign.

I'm all for helping keep Goodwill, etc. up and running. I go to their thrift stores and buy a fair amount of stuff. They do alot for down-on-their-luck people, and give them jobs.

These people that simply expect you to give them money so that they can just get another bottle of $1.09 beer... This irritates me. I'm working just to keep my home intact. My new job doesent really pay enough to do much more than that.

At work, we have a transient sleeping behind our dumpster. I dont think there was a problem until he started using our back door as his personal urinal and toilet. We are finally getting rid of him. We started draining our washing machine water onto his mattress back there.

I think that with all the layoffs and cuts, this is only the beginning.

I rent appliances to many people in the public housing projects around here. Seems that 75% of them have 8-10 kids each, and many of the kids have kids of their own. How'd YOU like to grow up in something like this?

When I go there to pick up something that the customer has stopped paying for weeks ago, I get cursed and threatened by the "adults" and the kids too! Like its all MY fault!!

Well, its a job. Better than living in a box.
 

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Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 08-06-2003, 09:11 AM:
 
I'm cold hearted about the homeless.
With all the programs available (many mentioned above) it is hard to believe that anyone could be "homeless" unless they wanted to be. While I admit that there are some that have mental problems, there are answers and help for that as well. I believe it all boils down to choices and these (lets face it) bums have made the choice to not work and to depend on the naive generosity of others. It's my belief that more times than not the supporting of these bums is what makes being a bum "profitable". Take away the bleeding heart support and let them live or die. It's their choice.
There's one bum who stands at the end of an off ramp by the local mall. I see these morons handing him money out the window of their cars frequently. He has his little sign that says he's homeless and has got 50 kids or something and will work for food etc etc etc. But you know what? He's always smoking a cigarette. What do those things cost now about $5 a pack?
I say shape up or ship out.
 

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Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 08-06-2003, 10:28 AM:
 
I, myself, have not seen our homelss guy. But only wo people have and at the same time, they were doing our morning perimeter check and saw him fast asleep on the matress. other than that no one else has seen him just the evidence that he has been there. I am beginning to think that it is not the only place that he may sleep considering a the soggy taco hasn't moved for a while. and about throwing the matress in the compactor, eww. who wants to touch that?! who knows where its been or what has happened to it. yuck.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 08-06-2003, 02:10 PM:
 
Blame the ACLU for putting these people on the streets. Many are were for years institionalized for good reason, but the ACLU determined that they were being held without good cause and prevailed on the judicial system to have them released and to prevent others from being held.
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 08-06-2003, 03:30 PM:
 
IMHO, you can also blame those who closed or privatized mental care facilities, and then drastically reduced public mental health services to cut taxes (or use the money for something else).

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/welfare/july-dec97/homeless_12-23.html
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-06-2003, 05:35 PM:
 
The homeless are not *literally* in my backyard, but there is a "secret" homeless camp about 2 blocks from my house. I'm on the edge of town in the hills, and there's this fairly large undeveloped parcel of land that's all wooded and secluded. There's been a small homeless encampment out in the middle of that for a long time. They don't bother anyone and all the area residents seem to look the other way.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-06-2003, 06:29 PM:
 
The idea the ACLU is to blame for homeless people being on the street is absolutely laughable.

I seem to recall comments from Alan Greenspan back in 1997 where he said the "economy" (or more likely THE FUCKING STOCK MARKET) was flourishing primarily over companies exploiting their workers and paying them less and less and less. Take away their benefits to expand profit margins. And then ship the damned jobs overseas to slave labor!

All of these business planners and stock salesmen are fighting as hard as they can to put a positive spin on the current economic climate. The president is handing out a gimmie tax break to families with kids. All of this is in hope the CATTLE (well that's what our government thinks of us) will get out there and waste money in the "economy" instead of just saving it or paying bills.

Here's the hard fact. The so called economy is 80% driven by consumer spending. The corporate parasites have downsized many out of any cost of living pay raises and eliminated most benefits. Most people cannot afford to spend shit on anything. And that is not going to change until the greediest .01% of the assholes up at the top realize (or begin to care) just what the hell they are doing to the rest of the world.

Don't buy into the right wing smoke screen bullshit and don't bet on the DOW hitting 10,000 anytime soon (unless the executives are able to con enough dumbasses out of believing reality).
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-06-2003, 07:57 PM:
 

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Asheville, NC is a new home for transient types.

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Blame the ACLU for putting these people on the streets

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THAT's a myth. The ACLU was the one which sued the Alabama & other public health systems to HOSPITALIZE the mentally ill.

Emptying the hospitals, starting with the mentally ill, has always been a cost-cutting measure. The earliest example, & the one most held up as an example of how to save money by getting the mentally ill "Off the public dole", was when Reagan closed down California's mental hospitals & turned the patients out.

Probably the most famous negative effect: murderer Herb Mullin on the streets.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/weird/mullin/reagan_12.html
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-07-2003, 02:17 AM:
 
Geez, people, this thing needs to go to the political forum, or everyone needs a time out.

When one of these things degenerates to the point that the Democrats are blaming Ragan and the Republicans are pointing fingers at Clinton, this will never come to any sort of agreeable conclusion.

If this thread can't be discussed without one side dumping on the politics of the other, the whole damned thing needs to go somewhere else (the trash?).


 

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Posted by Mike Pennell (Member # 1692) on 08-07-2003, 04:47 AM:
 
Any business, theatre or not, that is trying to promote a family atmosphere, does not need some homeless guy hanging around any public area. Most of the time they are drunk on something, lately its been listerine, asking for change or cigarrettes. Do you want your children around this type of atmosphere? Do you want your kids watching some homeless guy pissing on your doors in broad daylight. Screw that!! Regardless of mental condition someone has to draw a line. Its that we have to deal with these people that have made decisions/mistakes to live like this. Is anyone gonna help me if i f*&k up? No! Its up to the person to pick themselves up by their own friggin' bootstraps. Mike
 

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Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 08-07-2003, 12:28 PM:
 
In college I worked for Juvenile Court where I had to supervise kids perform their community service. We often cleaned out homeless living quarters. This is when I lost sympathy for bums.

We always filled at least 2 sharps boxes with used needles. There were piles and piles of porn and liquor. One of the men that we had to kick out all the time was known to have a home and family, but he liked this lifestyle and they liked him because he could buy real booze for the rest.

The group held races to see who could steal or beg for enough to get the first bottle of mouthwash each day. We also served at the soup kitchen and the mission told us they were never full except some cold winter nights. The reason is the mission has two requirements...Stay Sober and go to a Church Service. All of them went to church...they would not stay sober. BUMS are BUMS. Homeless people are homeless people. I have to differentiate as I have worked with bums and poor people just down on their luck and life.

As far as cost of living increases. They are great to receive, but all it does is help inflation. When the GDP goes up, so do our expenses. Rent is insane. I could not imagine living in a large city. I have friends in LA that make the same money I do but pay twice the rent. The trouble is we can't control the market. With most things when price is too high, it won't sell. Everyone needs a roof and someone will pay it.

Low income housing is a joke that won't let anyone out. Since rent is based on income, if you get a raise, rent goes up, hence you can never save to get out. It should be a stepping stone to help you out. Same is true for welfare. Why would anyone on welfare get a job. If they do we cut them off completely. It's all or none (except for title 19). A four person family on full benefits receives the equivelant of about $18,000/year. If it is a one parent household, a minimum wage job would yield about $12,000. Why not still help them out to show that work will still yield a better life. I did my thesis on this topic in college.

Oh, and this should be in the political thread.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 08-07-2003, 01:43 PM:
 
There was an abandoned drive-in down the street from me that I frequented to take pictures of. (That's where the one of me in the straightjacket was taken.) One day on one of our adventures, we saw smoke coming out of what used to be the concession/projection building.

Inside were two homeless guys grilling on a fire and an old A/C vent cover. They were so glad to see us! True, they were a little drunk, but what are you gonna do with your day, right? We talked for a while, with crazy dreams to open the drive-in and whatnot, pretty much until the sun started to go down.

I went back there a couple times to visit, and one of the guys who was in his late 20's told me about how he got where he's at. Long story short, he had a wife, kids, and a business until he tried crack and ended up smoking his whole business. Wife divorced him and took the kids. He had been clean for a while, but there was no going back or asking for forgiveness. It's hard finding a job when you can't shower every day or have any clothes to go to the interview in. You just get depressed and drink your depressions away as day after day goes by.

It irritates me when people say "Go get a job" especially with the way the country is right now. Yeah, go find a job when a guy like me, with a car and a great resume still can't find one that will pay all the bills. McDonald's won't even keep the lights on let alone pay for a roof over your head. Slave-wages!

Yeah, most of these people got to where they are by their own faults, but people make mistakes. Sometimes those mistakes throw you in a hole that's not easy to crawl out of, especially when there's people throwing dirt on you. It may not be a good enough reason to show compassion towards them, but there's also no reason to condemn them.

I came back to the drive-in one day before I left town and brought the two guys some gallons of drinking water and mosquito candles. (They were both pretty bit-up). It drove them to tears that a person actually still cared about them. When I came back after a week, they had moved on.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Don Bruechert (Member # 1538) on 08-07-2003, 04:14 PM:
 
I think I saw the first person in my life holding up a "Will work for food" sign when I was visiting the area where Rachel used to work... I was kind of amazed - I thought those things only happen on TV, but I must lead a sheltered life. The only effect that I can think of the homeless having on me in my world is that the lobby of the post office used to be open all night, and you could go in and mail your letters or get your box mail any time you wanted. Several years ago they started locking it up at 9PM and everybody was pissing and moaning about it until they explained that the homeless people were using the ashtrays for crappers and were sleeping in there. Then I think the general reaction was "I didn't know there WERE any homeless people in Manitowoc". Whereever they are, they must stay hidden well because I have never seen one in 39 years.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-07-2003, 06:06 PM:
 
The homeless issue isn't a political one. That's being too nice and absolving a lot of guilty parties from blame for it. This is a greed problem. Many of the homeless need to be in special homes or hospitals of some sort. But since there's no profit in taking care of these sorts of people they get cast out on the streets.

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Any business, theatre or not, that is trying to promote a family atmosphere, does not need some homeless guy hanging around any public area...Do you want your kids watching some homeless guy pissing on your doors in broad daylight...Regardless of mental condition someone has to draw a line.

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No! Its up to the person to pick themselves up by their own friggin' bootstraps.

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Tim, did you work on the projectors in Moore Auditorium? Also, did you stay at the Interstate Motel? By the Civic Center? If so, thats why you were harassed. It is also known as the intercourse motel.

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Yes, yes, and YES!! Was that you?!

Yep, you're right on about the intercourse motel... they even checked me into a room that had just been "used" one night. I went back to the front desk and said, "I think someone's already in that room."

The equipment at Mars Hill hasn't been used in probably 20 years. When it was, it had very little hours on it. Almost like new. I'm not sure if it was Moore Auditorium, but that rings familiar. It was a moderately-sized building on the left, just after you top the hill. I think administrative offices are there, too.

Last time I stopped by to say hi, the equipment was still there, but it had long been neglected and they were using the booth as storage. The same guy was still in charge of that department, but I've forgotten his name. Very nice people there. At one time, there was a young lady named Leeny Foiles who was the program coordinator, but she has since moved on. I always enjoyed her company.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-12-2003, 05:12 PM:
 

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These major companies claim they need to reduce costs to stay competitive by passing on the savings to consumers.

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Sunday August 10, 2003 Associated Press. "MAYYTAG MOVES SOUTH, Appliance Jiant Moving 3rd Plant To Mexico".

First Maytag moved two parts plants to Mexico; now, a refrigator plant is headed down there.Maytag CEO Ralph Hawke, who declined to interviewed for this article, has been blamed for this move, does not have any more plans to move plants to Mexico. He then backed up his decision by stating that 90% of Maytag refrrigators will still be made in the U.S. This year Maytag has cut 510 jobs, following 300 cuts in 2001. Mexico has become a popular destination for manufacturers. About 200 compaines, including Black and Decker and Whirlpool employ about 70,000 people in 10 industrial parks in Mexico. Mexican workers earn about $2.60 to $3.00 per hr including benefits. American Maytag employees earn about $15.00/hr. These major companies claim they need to reduce costs to stay competitive by passing on the savings to consumers. But while these compaines are saving themselves money by moving offshore, the reality is that they are not necessarly passing on savings to customers thru reduced prices.

I did paraphrase this article.

Once again the American Government and Washington ploiticians are selling out the American worker. I do believe that there is currently legislation on Capitol Hill to reelax restrictions on illegal Mexican workers and migrant workers comming into America.

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The US no longer has a manufacturing economy, so get over it. We have a information/technology and service economy for better or worse. Unfortunately, the technology economy still isn't doing well and the service economy pays cruddy wages.

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have one theory on why this is happening: the vocations promoted in popular culture such as TV shows and movies. What do we see? Lawyer, doctor, cop, lawyer, doctor, cop, etc. It is no wonder America has over 70% of the world's attorneys! Few bother to think about becoming a structural engineer or chemical scientist or anything in high demand like that. Top it off with America's laughably low average in science and test scores over the last two to three decades and you have the makings of our technology industry almost as a whole leaving this nation within a generation. We're too busy hitting the beer bong dreaming about law school.

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The legal industry is hurting itself. One of the reasons we've become such a litigious nation is because there are too many lawyers - there are over 1 million in the US. The law schools should limit admissions as some other industries do.

The reason why no one thinks about becoming an engineer or a scientist is because our popular culture only cares about the rich and the famous and of the famous, mainly only of music/TV/movie stars and athletes.

In schools today, kids who strive to excel are put down. Urban black kids who strive for achievement are accused by their peers of "going white." We've been dumbing down the country for some time and I don't see it getting any better in the near future.
 

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Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 08-16-2003, 05:07 PM:
 
Well good new everyone, the homless dude is gone and his bed is gone so maybe he found a new home or maybe he was removed. I don't know, but now its safe to take out the trash at our theatre again!
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-16-2003, 05:37 PM:
 
You could've adopted him and made him the pet you never had.
 

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Posted by Kristin Wahlund (Member # 922) on 08-16-2003, 11:13 PM:
 
Gee just what I always wanted, a hobo of my very own... should have given him to my GM for christmas
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-16-2003, 11:17 PM:
 
..and don't forget to get him neutered like most strays...

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-17-2003, 08:56 PM:
 
Bobby said, Few bother to think about becoming a structural engineer or chemical scientist or anything in high demand like that. Top it off with America's laughably low average in science and test scores over the last two to three decades and you have the makings of our technology industry almost as a whole leaving this nation within a generation.

Hey, we are a nation who couldn't even handle the change to the metric system -- and you want structural engineers! Even third world countries were able to handle the metric system.

We are also a nation that found the SAT science and math scores taking an alarming nose-dive about 10 years ago; how did we step up to the plate to remedy that situation....we ADJUSTED the scores so that what was up till then below average, now became the average! That's akin to finding a voltage that's supposed to read, say, 12v but is reading 3v below spec, so you recalibrate your meter so that 9v reads as 12v, stand back and say...."Ah, everything's fine -- it's now at spec." Or, as Dave Barry once put it, "I consider myself quite adept at automotive mechanics; when the red warning light comes on the dash board, I am able to fix the problem with just a small piece of black tape that I carefully stick over it."

Betcha that's how the blackout started.

Frank
 

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