Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Credit and Debit cards

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Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-07-2003, 02:17 PM:

Is there an advantage to equipping the theatre to take credit and debit cards?

Mine will be a small (100 seat) rural operation that caters to the tourist trade in the summer. In fact, I will probably run it as a private "film club". It will be on the second floor (elevator equipped) and there is an ATM machine on the first floor.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-07-2003, 03:00 PM:

since that atm will probably charge most customers who use it, and tourists like to hold on to their cash, it would probably be a good idea. our credit card machine does take significantly longer (3-4x) than a cash transaction. i'm sure more expensive systems are faster. but if you only have 100 seats i wouldn't worry too much about that.

carl

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 08-07-2003, 04:16 PM:

We just added credit card to our ticketing system ( RTS )
Our transactions run very smooth and quick.

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-07-2003, 04:49 PM:

Robert.. People WILL spend more in your concessions area if they can use a credit or debit card. If they have cash, they'll only spend what they have with them.. if you give them the option of plastic.... they'll buy whatever they want.

We are considering a "Speedpass" type setup at our theatre for concessions only. No cards, no receipts to sign, no PIN numbers, just wave the wand and the transaction is done.

It's a little costly, but might be worth looking into.

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 08-07-2003, 06:52 PM:

Tourists don't always like to carry a lot of cash - card service would be a convenience for them, and increase impulse spending. But since fraud would be harder to trace with an out-of-town user, follow all the rules re checking ID, getting signatures, and respecting transaction limits.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 08-08-2003, 02:10 AM:

In your situation accepting plastic sounds like the right thing to do; however, don't forget about those nasty transaction fees. You have to figure that mininum you will be charged 3% on every sale made with plastic-probably more since you are a smaller operation and don't have the power of the 'big guys.'

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-08-2003, 02:56 AM:

We're also using the RTS system, with credit card processing and online ticketing. Compared to the old card printers (that used phone lines), the RTS system is lightning fast. On average, it takes about 3 to 5 seconds to validate a sale. the receipts print out of the same printer that does your tickets, and on transactions under $35, you don't need to get a customer signature. This setup is just about as fast as a cash transaction. We're doing 20%+ of our overall business with it now.

Barry is right about the customer's spending habits. they will buy a lot more if they can use their card.... something about not actually seeing the cash coming out of the wallet, maybe... but it really works out that way.

On transaction fees: Yes, there are transaction fees, "discount" percentages, batch and statement processing fees. However, we're paying far less in fees than we were for the check guarantee setup we used to use...

We've been taking cards for the past 6 years. We no longer accept checks, period. Most anyone who has a checking account can get a debit card with a Visa or Mastercard logo on it.. which processes at the boxoffice or concession counter just like a credit card. No PINs are required.

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 08-08-2003, 04:18 AM:

Wouldnt encouraging use of credit cards create less worry about cash in the box office registers giving a peace of mind that would make the 3% fee worth it? At some point in the future, you probably will have a much larger percentage of the customers using credit cards. Who know, there may come a time where most customers use the kiosks like they do at self serve gas stations.

And I never understood people who held up lines with those idiotic checkbooks. Get a freaking debit or credit card. How the hell is holding a checkbook in your hand going to make you feel more secure?

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 08-08-2003, 09:40 AM:

You definately will want some time of dedicated connection if you can. Either internet or a frame relay to do your POS transactions. Frame relay would probably be cost prohibitive unless you were doing alot, and I mean alot, of transactions.

Internet would be easier probably and most clearing houses have some type of internet authorization, settlement.

We don't require customer signature for our transactions, although I think we are required, and the customers are ok with that. We occasionally do receive a dispute about charges but those are handled by corp.

Paul

Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 08-08-2003, 10:33 AM:

I personally don't go to theatres that don't accept Debit/Credit cards. I was floored one time when I went to an AMC theatre with only a ten on me, paid cash for my ticket, and then got to the popcorn counter and was told I couldn't buy anything. What a slap in the face almost. And I hated the movie now 'cause I didn't have any popcorn to enjoy. I'll never do that again!!

Not accepting credit/debit cards = lost sales!!!

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 08-08-2003, 10:35 AM:

FWIW: One 16-plex I monitor is doing roughly 20% of the total volume in plastic--that adds up to roughly $1.5 million per year. Now, you never know how much of that is convenience and how much of that volume wouldn't be there without the plastic, but why find out! At an $8.75 ticket you've got to figure that admission alone for a family of four is $35 and concessions could easily add another $25, so my guess is that many people really appreciate the option.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-08-2003, 03:36 PM:

Thanks for all the advise guys. Sounds like plastic is a good idea. I have three local financial institutions. I'll check to see who will give me the best deal. I'll keep you posted on the project. We are several months away yet.

Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 08-08-2003, 04:57 PM:

Costco seems to pitching their card services to the small business. It's funny though, they don't accept Visa and Master Card at the stores, just American Express and ATM.

Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 08-11-2003, 08:40 AM:

The commission for ATM cards is considerably lower than credit cards, so it's not surprising that Costco would prefer them. Generally, Amex is the highest commission of the major credit cards, with Discover the lowest, but Costco obviously made a deal with Amex. For really small merchants the fee on cards can run as high as 5%, while most pay around 3%. Really high volume outlets negotiate lower fees.

Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 08-12-2003, 11:18 AM:

I too use the RTS system. We do not accept credit/debit right now. This thread is all good information. I don't know what we pay for check validation (we pay as a company), but it's worth looking at the difference in a 3% transaction fee. I would guess you have to slowly phase out checks since everyone is used to using them. I will say in my current location I have not received a bounced check yet, over 6 months. They were a lot more common in my previous locations. I also think as fast as connection speed is anymore, check writing probably takes longer.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-12-2003, 03:28 PM:

I'd say you're pretty lucky, Andrew. We didn't have a lot of trouble in the first year we took checks... but we got hosed very badly the next year... something like $200 some-odd during the first month alone... running weekends! Some of those people were writing bad $4 popcorn checks!

If you're referring to 3% as a transaction fee for credit cards, I'd advise you (or your company) to look around. You should be able to get it fairly close to 1.5, 1.8 or so.

The RTS system processes credit cards from the computer that you keep your local database on. All of the other stations in your system will be able to process cards just by adding the reader wedge (we velcro ours to the touch screen). If you do eventually go this way, you'll need an internet connection to the database computer that can be connected at all times during your business day. Anything from ISDN speeds up will work with the system.

Posted by Mike Markwood (Member # 1853) on 08-23-2003, 02:55 PM:

You should definately take Credit/Debit cards. We process over the intenet (Cable Modem) and get approval on most transactions within 5 seconds. I would reccommend having a backup modem hooked to a phoneline to process transactions if your internet connection goes down.

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 08-23-2003, 03:31 PM:

Bank charges here are $20 if a cheque is returned NSF.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 09-08-2003, 05:45 PM:

Regal is phasing in debit/credit cards for the concession stand. At the Regal Warrington Crossing on Labor Day, I used my debit card in the Cafe del Moro. The clerk got curious and said, "You don't carry cash?" I told her I spent my last $6 on my movie ticket. [Wink]

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 09-08-2003, 07:12 PM:

If you are a small business and a memeber of the canadian federation of independent business (there must be a US equivilent) you are eligable for a discounted debit credit card processing package
What they did is as a group they shopped the package of all its memebers till a bank bites with a super low package

At my partners antique market we had opened with a terminal directly with our own bank and the charges were
debit $1.00 Visa 2.5% MC 3% Amex 4.5% + 2% processing on all transactions through the host service. This was in line with most other services
Now with the CFIB plan we are debit at 50c visa at 2% MC 2,25% and Amex3% and no other fees
The only thing is we had to open a account at the hosting companys bank (right now it is Scotia) and then we just weekly transfer the balance to our regular operating account

Posted by Jannette McQueen (Member # 1885) on 09-12-2003, 01:16 AM:

I don't know what other places are like, but around here, there's hardly any shops or cafés or *anything* without credit card and debit card machines. Some people rely completely on their bank cards to pay for everything, and don't carry cash with them at all (I myself consider these people to be nutcases, but nonetheless, they exist).

We got our card machine in the box office about 3 years ago I guess, and people use it quite a bit. So much, in fact, that the higher-ups decided we needed another one. So now we have two machines in the box office.

And I have had a couple complaints about us not taking debit at the snack bar (eventhough, every single time you buy a ticket at the box office with your back card, or credit card or whatever, they ask you "do you want cash for the concession?") and a lot of people just assume that we take cards at the snack bar as well as the box office.

To a lot of people it's very shocking that you're not up with the times and have a credit and debit machine at every till.

It takes longer, but it's catering to the public's needs and preferances, and that's always good for business, I'd say.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-12-2003, 12:58 PM:

Janet, if your company finds they're doing a lot of their business on plastic, they might consider going to online processing. Those separate machines have to dial an 800 number, and connect by modem before they can process a card. Many of them start the process as soon as the card is swiped, but the connection process still takes quite a while, comparatively speaking. If your machine has an impact printer (as opposed to thermal) it's REALLY slow! [Mad]

Still, it's the way we "dipped our toes in", so to speak... and I'm glad we did.

The new ticketing systems that do card processing can connect through the internet, which can lower the process down to 3 seconds or so.

Things may be different in Canada, but we can't legally put cash for subsequent purchases on a credit card (it's one of those "fine print" items in our merchant's agreements). Debit cards, yes... but not credit. One reason is that a cardholder could dispute the charge, and whether you actually did give him the cash. On your side, you could prove that you provided admission to the theatre. You could even track that concession products were sold... but you'd have a hard time proving that you actually did hand cash from your till to the customer, were he to contest it.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 09-15-2003, 04:23 PM:

Jannette McQueen wrote:

quote:
I don't know what other places are like, but around here, there's hardly any shops or cafés or *anything* without credit card and debit card machines. Some people rely completely on their bank cards to pay for everything, and don't carry cash with them at all (I myself consider these people to be nutcases, but nonetheless, they exist).

I admit that I'm one of those nutcases, although not to the extreme of carrying no cash whatsoever.

In this area, almost every ATM charges for withdrawals, so you're hit for $1.50 every time you get cash.

With concession prices reaching $10 or more, it makes sense to charge it than it does to pay in cash. More and more retailers are telling me that they don't need a signature for transactions under $50, so I can't imagine that a signature-free transaction would take that much longer than a cash w/ change transaction.

And yes, any consumer-oriented business that doesn't take credit cards is antiquated, not with the times, and a lot less likely to get a return visit from the likes of me...

What I don't understand is why I can't charge my ticket and my concessions at once instead of once at the box office and again at the concession stand. But that's an issue for another thread!

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-15-2003, 04:47 PM:

quote:
What I don't understand is why I can't charge my ticket and my concessions at once instead of once at the box office and again at the concession stand.

A couple of reasons come to mind.
First, logistics. Some people might know exactly what they want from the concessions... but a lot more are likely to change their minds, once they get to the counter. You'd have to have some kind of "chit" from the boxoffice, that you could turn in for your pre-purchased concessions. That could be done easily enough, but would add time to the transaction.

Second... I doubt that most managers really WANT you to pre-purchase your concessions. That bypasses any effort at up-selling, suggestive sales and impulse purchases... again... maybe a good thing for the customer, but not necessarily so for the theatre.

Posted by Chris Trainor (Member # 9) on 09-15-2003, 04:56 PM:

National Amusements is doing this actually. You can buy basic consession items from their Quik Tix terminals at the same time as picking up (from an online order) or purchasing your tix. Pretty quick. I use it all the time (when it's working). It prints out your regular creditcard receipt, your tickets and a coupon that you bring to the concession stand and they hand you your order. Pretty slick. (again, when it works. about 25% of the time I goto one of their theaters the damned things are offline for some reason or another).

--Chris

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 09-15-2003, 05:02 PM:

Regal is also offering that. It is a take off of what UA used to do. The Ultimate Premier Pack allows you to buy 2 movie tickets and a concession combo for one price and it can be redeemed at any location.
The concession combo is two medium drinks, a large popcorn and a pre-determined candy.

Posted by Jannette McQueen (Member # 1885) on 09-15-2003, 08:13 PM:

Scott Jentsch wrote:

quote:
I admit that I'm one of those nutcases, although not to the extreme of carrying no cash whatsoever.

I'm sorry if I might have called you a nutcase.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 09-15-2003, 11:26 PM:

I'm sorry if I might have called you a nutcase.

Yes but he really is a nutcase so don't worry about it. [Big Grin]

Hehehe j/k

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 09-16-2003, 07:51 PM:

Does anybody have experience of systems that can sell tickets and food together. The Wabits system used by Warner Village/ VUe does allow this [a ticket printer can be connected to the tills] but I have never seen this in use. This would also be usefull in a small cinema trying to run with the fewest number of staff posible.

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 09-16-2003, 10:48 PM:

Cineplex Odeon offered a selection of 4 combos of popcorn and drinks (regular and large sizes, of course) at their lobby ATM'S (dispensed tickets, not cash). A separate coupon was printed for the confection combo which was to be treated as cash when redeemed at the bar so as not to lose the sale if an up-size or additional item were wanted, At the boxoffice, the usual technique for covering confection sales on a charge/debit card was to offer gift tickets which would be exchanged at the bar instead of cash. The ATM had a $75 limit - no signature there - and at the boxoffice you were covered by the signature on a charge slip or the PIN number used on a debit transaction.
It did cut down on the number of price increases - new bitmaps had to be produced for the ATM displays each time there was one, or the combo price was held and became a better buy for a while.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 09-17-2003, 01:01 PM:

Well, since it seems that I've gone and hijacked this thread with my concession comment, here goes...

I agree that buying concessions at the box office wouldn't make sense, but that's only if you stay with the traditional way of doing things. Instead of bottlenecking everyone through one or two box office lines, only to send them to one or more concession lines, combine the two.

Remove the box office, and combine the concession and box office staff, with everyone selling both. Now, instead of two lines of each, you have four lines capable of selling concessions and getting people on their way.

I'd be much more likely to buy concessions if they're offered to me while I have my wallet out paying for the tickets, especially if I'm running close on time and the concession line is long.

Once I heard that some theaters were selling concessions and tickets at the same time, I've never understood why more theaters don't do the same. From what I've heard, the concession sales per ticket go way up when this is done, and I can easily see why.

Any reasons why this wouldn't work in most theaters?

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 09-17-2003, 02:19 PM:

People absolutely hate waiting in a line to pay you money for admission. If you were to combine the ticket and concession lines in a busy theatre your CPP would go up but your attendance would go down.

However, selling tickets at the concession stand works for theatres with slow matinees and / or low attendance.

BTW, both RDS and OmniTerm's ATM software will handle concession 'vouchers'. Changing the screen bitmaps on either takes only a few seconds... it's as simple as copying the files to the machine, which you can do across your LAN (or even WAN... which ideally would be the case in all good companies).