Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Movie Credit Roll

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Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-10-2003, 01:04 AM:

30 years ago, "The End" was the end. In some of today's movies, "The End" occurs almost 10 minutes later after the "The Pre End." I just noticed that AGAIN - in Pirates of the Caribbean.

I suppose that, of course, no little fishies were harmed in filming, commodes by Kohler, flush valves by Regal, toilet paper by Kimberly-Clark, etc. etc. etc.

But I still show the credits in case some dilrod wants to know who supplied the toilets. [Big Grin]

Yes, I am a little facetious about this, but Jeeze.... [Eek!]

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 08-10-2003, 02:31 AM:

It used to be that all the credits were at the beginning of the film and the only thing after "THE END" was another cast call, but only if the director felt the performances were worthy of the additional credit.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-10-2003, 05:27 AM:

Disney's end credits were notoriously fast... THE END!

You barely had time to get the curtains closed on some of their pictures! In later years, Mel Brooks did the same stunt with "Blazing Saddles". I think the end roll on that picture was about 13 seconds flat!

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-10-2003, 10:25 AM:

Jack, remember on the first screening of those Disney pictures, and you were on the last reel waiting to changeover, wondering if it was indeed the end of the movie and you weren't missing a reel?!

[Eek!]

Paul "standby chargehand painter" always gets me. They credit someone who wasn't even working! Credits have long gotten out of hand (remember the first Superman movie, the entire last reel was credits - and "Rock-A-Doodle" had a reel change IN the credits!) I wish they would go back to what they used to do: major creative credited at the beginning, cast again at the end, OVER! That would also thwart television's annoying practice of squishing the credits into the side of the screen and running them at 10x speed (what's the idea behind that - no one can even hope to read them, so why bother?).

Who the caterer was, who drove the portable dressing rooms, or who coiled up the generator cables makes no difference to the creation of the movie.

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 08-10-2003, 11:03 AM:

I noticed one theater here, clipped the "pirates" credits just after the main production credits. Did a pretty good job...right on a music beat. I guess they had to get that monkey on screen quicker.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-10-2003, 12:06 PM:

If i went inot a theatre and watched a show and the credits were cut or not shown there would be one fast call to the distributor

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 08-10-2003, 02:32 PM:

I am thankful to those that run all of the credits, for I am one of those "dilrods" Paul mentioned. [Big Grin]

If I'm staying through the credits, it's not so much that I want to see who the clapper loader was. It's usually more about wanting to hear all of the music play out.

Showing the entire film as it's makers intended is as much a professional courtesy as it is a requirement. Theater management and staff that clip off or don't show all the credits and play all of the music, or who try to shoo us dilrods out--should be taken out back and switched, and not by an electrician! Or maybe hooked up to a xenon power supply with the ignitor set to auto-strike... [evil]

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 08-10-2003, 03:24 PM:

Can't they just put all those misc credits on the one sheet and save the cost of a 10 minute reel.
Shortest ending I ever came across was "North by Northwest" and I really wondered if the end of the reel was missing as the film got closer to the hub before Hitchcock wrapped it up.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-10-2003, 06:03 PM:

quote:
Jack, remember on the first screening of those Disney pictures, and you were on the last reel waiting to changeover, wondering if it was indeed the end of the movie and you weren't missing a reel?!

Ummmmmmmmmm..... yah.

Reminds me of one of my less memorable moments in the booth. We were running one of those shows, I was in college, thinking about classes, doing homework during my shift... probably not focused on "da job"... definitely burning the candle from both ends. Somehow, I missed the bell & looked up just in time to see the screen go dark.

So.... I brought up the lights, pulled the curtain, turned off the sound, turned on the cleaning lights & headed out of the booth & down the stairs.

The manager met me in the lobby and said something like, "Isn't it a bit early for this show to be out?". I said "well, it is". He pointed out that we had started on time, so it was curious that this particular show had ended earlier than all the others.

So.... back up the stairs, into the booth... guess what? There's a full reel of film in the other projector [Eek!]

Guess I was lucky it was such a slow night. I heard about that one for MONTHS, and became quite popular with those late shift managers who had been looking for their own "get out early" tactics.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-10-2003, 06:31 PM:

That's what I liked about the drive-in theatres. When we got fogged out to the point where all is visable is a cone of light shooting out of the projection window, we can leave a reel out or make a couple of early changeovers and nobody would know the difference. Usually all the cars found their way out and gone before the movie was over anyway.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-10-2003, 07:01 PM:

quote:
When we got fogged out... we can leave a reel out or make a couple of early changeovers and nobody would know the difference

We'd never get to that point, Paul. At the first hint of the stuff I get people complaining about headaches, nausia, acid indigestion and other miscellaneous burning sensations!

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 08-10-2003, 09:41 PM:

What patrons who sit through credits usually want to know is:
a location or
song details,
or if they're professionals, who was the caterer - the sign of a good shoot. Locally, we have a lot of interest also in the special effects crews. So end credit visibility is a must.
VOLCANO (or the other one) had a really long set of end credits; we could rid the auditorium of the stragglers by telling them the location was Wallace, Idaho, and they left happy.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 08-10-2003, 09:44 PM:

Well we supplie dailies projection to some films and I for one want to see the credit up there that was in the agreement [Smile]

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 08-10-2003, 11:20 PM:

Aother reason why I like to remain for the credits beside knowing the location of principle photography and other technical matters is to listen to the music score. Many times, the best music is played during the end credits. One of my all time favorite is by John Conte and the end music he wrote for "THE RIGHT STUFF". Beside his own style, he very cleverly makes his music sound like a passage from Holst's "THE PLANETS" and the Polonaise from Tchaikovsky's opera "EUGENE ONEGIN.

Many Academy Award winning songs are also played only during the end credits.

-Claude

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 08-11-2003, 12:02 AM:

As opposed to Bill Williams... [Big Grin]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-11-2003, 03:11 AM:

I think all the credits should be printed on a onesheet, which would be shipped in with the film, and "contractually obligated" to be displayed in the auditorium the print is playing in.

People are always complaining the credits go by too fast. If they were on a one-sheet, this problem would be eliminated.

AND, the movie industry could take a big environmental pat on the back for not using all that film for something only 1% or less of the people watch.

AND, the theatre might be able to squeeze in another showtime!

AND, the soundtracks would sell better! I can see it now...."Unused End Title Music Inspired by 'Star Wars Episode III'" or whatever.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-11-2003, 03:44 AM:

credit watcher here. when i watch a film, i watch the whole film. no checking the watch, no rubbernecking, no leaving during the credits. kubrick would always (well, as far as i've noticed) leave the words "the end" until the end of the credits. bravo, stanley! but i do wish the damn things were shorter. that way i wouldn't have to crane my neck and shift my knees as everybody else is piling out. my bladder would be happier too.

carl

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 08-11-2003, 04:29 AM:

quote:
I think all the credits should be printed on a onesheet

You guys do realize that such one sheets would be massively huge, right?

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-11-2003, 04:51 AM:

For the 70mm 'director's cut' of Apocalypse Now,l there were no end credits. Francis Ford Coppola had the complete credits printed up on paper flyers-you got a copy when you bought a ticket.

I don't know if this was also the case for the 'Redux' version a couple years ago.

-Aaron

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-11-2003, 04:51 AM:

The credits should be interspersed throughout the film so that everyone would see them! [Big Grin]

When I was a 20-something wannabe filmmaker, I once made a 35mm short film called "An Eye For An Eye" with that method of titles as a joke. To my surprise, it worked very well. [beer]

>>> Phil

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 08-11-2003, 08:27 AM:

in many silent films, actors' names are introduced in intertitles when the characters first appear. michael snow's corpus callosum has the credits maybe 2/3 of the way through. i think there are other examples of this too. maybe something by godard?

quote:
You guys do realize that such one sheets would be massively huge, right?

they would be the same size as any other one sheets. but the print would be really tiny.

carl

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-11-2003, 08:28 AM:

quote:
People are always complaining the credits go by too fast. If they were on a one-sheet, this problem would be eliminated.

Then one would be faced with the problem of fitting literally hundreds upon hundreds of names into a 27" X 41" space, effectively reducing the copy down to microscopic 2 point type -and then still not having any room at all for any actual poster art.

Ah but there's little "art" left in movie posters anymore, just boring photographs of some smirking actor's face and other inane crap like that. I suppose the lawyers would like one sheets if they were filled up with nothing but fine print.

Speaking of fast credit rolls, does anyone remember the zipping by at light speed credit roll on 70mm prints of "The Abyss"? I think the only other times I've seen credits fly by like that were credits at the end of a TV game show. On top of that, the deep blue type on black background was pretty hard to read (particularly in the brightness of 70mm). The credits are run at normal (much slower) speed on the DVD.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-11-2003, 02:37 PM:

I didn't mean put them on the REGULAR one-sheet! I mean a "separate" onesheet sized paper. Or two. Just something to tape to the wall. Put the cast, music credits and filming location (which is all most people look for) in larger type at the top, then use the ridiculous 2-point stuff at the bottom.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-11-2003, 04:01 PM:

Claude

quote:
one of my favorite is by John Conte and the end music he wrote for "The Right Stuff"

It was Bill Conti that wrote the music. Great Score [thumbsup]

Aaron

quote:
I don't know if this was also the case for the 'Redux' version a couple years ago.

No Miramax did not release a little credit booklet like the first run 70MM engagements, back in 1979-80. The only people that got anything was the press at the press screenings in NYC. The Astor run had none.

[ 08-12-2003, 02:38 PM: Message edited by: Bill Gabel ]

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-11-2003, 05:02 PM:

quote:
No Miramax did not release a little credit booklet like the first run 70MM engagements, back in 1979-80. The only people that got anything was the press at the press screenings.

Not true. The public screenings at the Loew's Cineplex Century Plaza Cinemas in Century City (L.A. - now closed) did hand them out at the point of purchasing a ticket. I know, I received one.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-11-2003, 05:19 PM:

To hairsplit even further Paramount (not Miramax) distributed the original "Apocalypse Now" release. Miramax only bought the rights to distribute "Redux" from Zoetrope Studios.

Incidentally, the Paramount DVD release has a something of a duplication of the 70mm roadshow booklet. Copolla also talks about the complete lack of front and end titles on the 70mm print during the commentary of the Kurtz Compound Destruction extra (which was used on the 35mm release prints and caused confusion, making people think there were two endings of the film).

Posted by Aaron Garman (Member # 1653) on 08-11-2003, 07:25 PM:

Hello all. As far as I know, the reason credits have become so long is because the unions and guilds have buckled down on making sure everyone involved with the film is given proper credit. Personally, I could care less if the credits are long or short because I always watch them. I think it is just interesting to see how many people are actually working on the film and what they are doing. I remember watching them on FeatDOTcom and there was a librarian on the crew. [Eek!]

Also, I love listening to the score. One of my favorites is Saving Private Ryan: that score from John Williams is just beautiful. I wish I could keep the lights down during the credits because it bugs me when the lights are at half during the credits. People are so used to leaving during the credits, that not having the lights on is just too big a safety risk.
[Mad]

AJG

Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 08-11-2003, 08:08 PM:

I just see credits as cleaning time. I tell the staff if they are done bagging the house before the credits are done, they are doing well. We always stay out of the way if people happen to be watching the credits but as you all know this is rare.

quote:
Just something to tape to the wall.

Credits on one sheets taped to the wall?! I think we have enough clutter of advertising in the lobbies. I personally don't want 10 more one sheets hanging in addition to my upcoming movie one-sheets, banners, standees, etc. I wouldn't disagree with pamplets sitting on a box-office counter or something. Those that do watch credits would probably take them.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-11-2003, 10:12 PM:

quote:
To hairsplit even further Paramount (not Miramax) distributed the original "Apocalypse Now" release.

Actually, it was United Artists.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-11-2003, 10:56 PM:

I could have sworn Paramount distributed it. How did they obtain the home video rights for all these years?

Well, if UA distributed it, then perhaps that might explain why "Heaven's Gate" was replaced by a print of "Apocalypse Now" after only a couple showings at New York's Cinema One on 3rd Ave.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 08-11-2003, 11:39 PM:

quote:
I could have sworn Paramount distributed it. How did they obtain the home video rights for all these years?

United Artists had a direct investment of 7.5 million, which gave them U.S./Canadian theatrical distribution rights only. They ended up pumping much more money into the production, but in the form of a loan, which, in case the film bombed, UA could have ended up with all of American Zoetrope assets (though thought to be considerably less than the money loaned. Well, due to the strong business of the film, the loans were repaid. Zoetrope sold non-theatrical rights to Paramount.

(there's some excellent first-hand information on this from UA Prexy at the time Steven Bach in his book "Final Cut: Dreams and Disaster in the Making of HEAVEN'S GATE".)

Posted by Michael Coate (Member # 757) on 08-12-2003, 12:58 AM:

quote:
one of my favorite is by John Conte and the end music he wrote for "The Right Stuff"

quote:
It was Bill Conte that wrote the music. Great Score

Actually, it was Bill Conti. You got the "great score" part right. [Smile]

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 08-12-2003, 02:41 PM:

[Big Grin]

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 08-13-2003, 10:44 AM:

Paul G. Thompson wrote:

quote:
But I still show the credits in case some dilrod wants to know who supplied the toilets.

I am one of those "dilrods" that watch the entire movie from beginning to end, including the credits.

I'm also the dilrod who paid money to visit the theater and eat high-priced popcorn. Money which, if I have it right, pays the bills for most theaters. When it comes down to the theater staff and the patrons, I'm the one on the revenue side of the equation, and my desire to watch the credits should be respected.

If the interest is in saving film stock, or saving time to squeeze in another showtime, then by all means feel free to hack off the 15 minutes of rolling stock (ads and trailers) that run before the film begins.

In regards to printed programs accompanying the film, that would be kind of nice for certain films. While it would be trash for most films, it would be interesting for the select gems out there. And yes, the public exhibitions of Apocalypse Now Redux did have a printed program, I have one here somewhere. However, the IMDb fills the need for referencing most of this type of information.

R. Andrew Diercks wrote:

quote:
I just see credits as cleaning time. I tell the staff if they are done bagging the house before the credits are done, they are doing well.

This demonstrates a lack of respect for those paying customers who are still watching the film. No matter how quiet your cleaners are, they are still a distraction by moving through the theater around your customers. How good of a job can they do without the cleaning lights on?

I attended SWAT last night, and the staff was courteous enough to wait until the movie was completely over before they started cleaning. I don't mind the lights coming up slightly to offer people the chance to leave safely, but full cleaning lights and a house full of cleaners should not be my final impression of a theater when I pay money to see a film.

I can empathize with the desire of the staff to get people in and out as quickly as possible, but one should never forget that every single customer deserves respect. It is in every theater's best interest to deliver the best possible customer experience from the time they drive in the parking lot to the time they leave that same parking lot.

Such attention to detail can and will differentiate your theater from the others in your competitive area. It will also give them another reason to come to your theater instead of Blockbuster.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-13-2003, 01:15 PM:

quote:
If i went inot a theatre and watched a show and the credits were cut or not shown there would be one fast call to the distributor

All About My Mother has a long, slow credits crawl. In 2000 -- on Oscar weekend -- the Montgomery Cinema in Rocky Hill NJ cut off that film 2/3 of the way through the end credits. Not only that, the Dolby Digital cut out 3 times during the show with no fallback to analog. I have not been back to that theater since.

Sometimes it's not entirely the theater's fault. The AMC Empire in NYC played Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai the week the theater opened in 2000. AMC ran a circuited print that was missing the Artisan logo at the beginning plus all the credits at the end. I got passes when I complained to AMC about this.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-13-2003, 01:49 PM:

"I don't mind the lights coming up slightly to offer people the chance to leave safely"

As long as they don't have them come up by placing cue tape over the picture, causing a flash on the screen during the final dramatic fade-out! [Mad]

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-13-2003, 02:02 PM:

We bring our house lights up to half mast at credit roll start for safety of those who elect to exit before the very end. I think most theatres do that, too.

Posted by Jim Spohn (Member # 1547) on 08-14-2003, 02:27 PM:

When someone pays to have a film run for them we run the film, not just the part we like!!...Jim

Posted by Matt Hale (Member # 1518) on 08-14-2003, 06:51 PM:

In most cases credits are a contractual obligation, union or otherwise. In other cases I have seen, its the executive producer wanting to get his kid's names on screen...

I always stay for credits, mostly as a professional courtesy to those who made the movie. Hopefully someone out there does the same for me. Having said that, I do find most credit rolls far too long and I wish more films adopted a 2 or 3 column format. Its just as easy to scan for a particular piece of information, and on all but the smallest screens print size is not an issue.

One thing I find extremely insulting is when they list all the funding agencies and their logos before the people. I don't care how much money Pepsi Co. contributed, they got their due from the giant billboard in the background of scene 48, and all the other product placement. People devoted months (if not years) of their lives to making this movie and people always come before corporations/legal entities.

Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 08-19-2003, 06:01 PM:

On rare occasion you'll find a movie that does something out of the ordinary within the end credits.

A League of Their Own cuts between the end credits and the "Old Timers' Ladies Day" game while you hear "This Used to Be My Playground" by Madonna on the soundtrack. This montage times out perfectly: The song ends cold when the Columbia logo comes up.

I should have brought this up earlier but Gordon's post put me in rant mode.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-31-2003, 01:46 PM:

Hear, hear, to everyone who recognizes that the film should play to its completion, no matter what the urgency of the staff is to "get out early." I will not even let the cleaners stand in the alcove to wait for the credits to finish as it is distractive.

My take on the long credit crawls is that in the old days, THE END card was it -- fast and dramatic -- get those curtains closed. But roadshows always had their exit music -- that was one of the things that made them special. For me, the credit crawl is kind of like exit or "walk out" music for the majority of patrons who don't sit through them; the end credits are a way of kind of allowing you to mimic roadshow protocol, except you don't close the curtains, so although it's no cigar, it's close.

The only thing I close the dowser on is the ugly, soft focus, jitter-me-timbers, ridiculous MPAA rating at the END of the movie. HELLO....what exactly is THAT for? So people who have already SEEN the film can slap their own faces and say, "Gee, I don't want to see R rated films....and dagnabit, I just did!" It's stupid. And it's just a self-serving bit of beat-my-own-chest for the MPAA. The patrons know what the rating is BEFORE the come in to see the film, and if they haven't made the effort to check any of the places where the rating is posted, like on the 1 sheets, in the newspaper ads, how about staring them in the face when they look at the box office board, then they really aren't that much interested in knowing what the rating is in the first place, in which case putting it at the end of the credits is, as far as I am concerned, nothing but some nice extra leader to protect the print, not anything that goes on my screen. Besides, even the guys like us, who sit through the ENTIRE credits and force the cleaners to stay out of our isle, get up and leave before the rating.

Frank

Posted by Bob Peticolas (Member # 328) on 08-31-2003, 04:59 PM:

Horray for Frank!! 100% correct on the ratings band nonsense.

bob [beer]

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 09-01-2003, 12:25 AM:

yeah, we time our dowser to shut right before that rating card. unfortunately, sometimes (rarely) the music will continue just a little bit longer, and that will get cut off as the non-sync switches on automatically.

carl

Posted by Daniel Fuentz (Member # 1684) on 09-02-2003, 03:50 AM:

Just tonight, seeing a film (Freaky Friday) with my nephew at the Cinemark 8 in Hanford, Ca: As the credits start, the house lights stay off. I figure this is becuase there is extra material of the daughter playing with her band at her mom's wedding. No big deal, even though people are falling over themselves trying to leave in the dark. After this ends, and the credits over black start, some genius in the booth turns on the CLEANING LIGHTS. (The house lights, when had been dimmed during the film were OFF at this time) The patrons still in the theater were instantly blinded, and of course there wasn't even anyone in the auditorium waiting to clean! I mentioned this to the person at the snack bar (the only employee I could find in my half-blind condition) and he just acted as if he didn't know what I was talking about and finished talking to his friend... So, if you were in the booth at the Cinemark 8 today... [fu]

Posted by Ron Keillor (Member # 1790) on 09-02-2003, 04:05 AM:

In Canada the MMPAA ratings are not valid, and need to be removed from prints in most if not all provinces. There is now even a Canadian edition of some 1-sheets that has the rating removed to eliminate messy cover-ups.

Posted by Ron Lacheur (Member # 1126) on 09-02-2003, 08:55 AM:

Most one-sheets that have the MPAA ratings on them have electrical tape placed over the rating.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 09-02-2003, 09:17 AM:

quote:
Who the caterer was, who drove the portable dressing rooms, or who coiled up the generator cables makes no difference to the creation of the movie.

If you think that, then I guess the concessionists, ushers, and projectionists don't have anything to do with making a movie theater a place for people to see movies. You can't make movies without the little people, directors realize that, hence the credits. It's not that big of a deal. I know that credits sometimes can be annoying, but you don't have to stay for them, just leave. Credit is due to the people that help make the movies.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 09-03-2003, 06:30 PM:

All I expect to see is the lights come up just as soon as ALL notable movie action has ended. If there's a special monkey scene or something at the VERY VERY end of the credits, I think the theatre shouldn't bring the lights up until that part hits the screen.

Some will argue with me, but I think that lights up at a movie is similar to lights up at a concert. The official "No... there's not going to be anymore encore." Basically, I want to watch the last little snippet in the darkness, not with lights and people walking out around me.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 09-03-2003, 06:34 PM:

If you don't like the end credits then walk out.
I don't worry about such things as I have better things to worry about.

Posted by Jim Leko (Member # 1287) on 09-06-2003, 01:42 PM:

I don't mind staying for the credits, so long as they don't get carried away. Take Darkness Falls for example. The movie was only about an hour and a half long, yet the credits were over 10 minutes. Even the credits for Harry Potter were shorter than that.

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-08-2010, 11:25 AM:

It has been 2527 days since the last post.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 08-08-2010, 11:25 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
The only thing I close the dowser on is the ugly, soft focus, jitter-me-timbers, ridiculous MPAA rating at the END of the movie. HELLO....what exactly is THAT for? So people who have already SEEN the film can slap their own faces and say, "Gee, I don't want to see R rated films....

I've never understood putting the rating tag at the end. In The UK the bbfc rating tag is right at the start before the studio logos.

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 08-08-2010, 08:32 PM:

Occasionally we'll have customers that stay to see if our posted rating matches. This happened last week with "Dinner for Schmucks". The customer thought/should be rated "R" instead of "PG13".

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 08-08-2010, 08:56 PM:

I also remember a movie that was changed from R to PG13 at the last minute when they edited out approx 20 mins of the movie and if the tag were at the beginning, I'd have gotten less people complaining that we let people underage into it. But that was the only time I've had that happen.

Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 08-08-2010, 09:54 PM:

Hay, don't clip those credits, my name has been there a number of times.

I have always thought that is was rather strange that the rating card is at the END of the movie. Don't you want to know the rating BEFORE you see the movie?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2010, 10:39 PM:

I would think MOST people would know the rating before they even enter the theatre!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-08-2010, 11:39 PM:

(If this was brought up prior, then excuse me..) When the MPAA ratings thing began in 1968 ("The Graduate" was the first to get the "M" rating) with the "G,M,R, and X" ratings, they were on the front of the films. But, when the "M" was changed to the "GP" (general parental) in 1971, the tags were placed at the end (1972, the GP was reversed to the PG "Parental Guidance" due to misunderstanding by the patrons.

Course, it wouldn't take much to snip off the rating tag from the end and splice it on the front prior to trademark ..... (just a thought...)

Course, you know that you can place ratings at the front of playlists for digital movies since the tags are usually available for download in the "Trail Mix" HD's.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-12-2010, 06:25 AM:

I don't think the rating needs to be at the front of the film either. For me, it just ruins a nice clean presentation -- curtains open on a big surround stereo house logo tag, maybe a bombastic sound format tag, then this awkward MPAA thing in dead silence for much longer than it actually needs to be (how long does it take to read the letter [R]...ok, maybe [PG-13] takes a little longer, and it is spliced to the opening studio logo. It's just breaks the rythmn and rubs me wrong, especially since the rating is given for the film
1) on the 1-sheet
2) in the newspaper ad
3) on the moviefone listing
4) on the website listing
5) on the schedule board in the box office where they buy their ticket
6) on the title card above the door of the auditorium they enter....in short EVERY PLACE they could possibly have heard about or seen reference to this movie.

Seems to me, if these yahoos haven't figured out by the time they've plopped their fat arses in their seats what the rating of the film they are about to watch is, then puting it up on the screen probably won't register for them either. In fact, the theatre could make some big money by offering an auto-resuscitation aparatus and a private nurse beside the seat, given the fact that such a patron would be considered legally brain dead.

Besides, has anyone ever really seen someone buy a ticket, go to their seat, see the rating come up before the feature and then jump up and say, "Oh me oh my, I had no idea this film was rated R....I want my money back"? And would you refund their money or would you point to the [R] posted above the door to the auditorium they were in, and point to the [R] on the one sheet in the lobby, and point to the [R] on the schedule board in the box office where they JUST BOUGHT THEIR TICKET? I'm just saying -- someone needs to explain to me the logic of putting the rating before the feature.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-12-2010, 06:44 AM:

quote: Bobby Henderson

To hairsplit even further Paramount (not Miramax) distributed the original "Apocalypse Now" release.

quote: Paul Linfisty

Actually, it was United Artists.

Here, the original release was by HOYTS Film Distribution. [Razz]

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-12-2010, 12:57 PM:

quote:
I would think MOST people would know the rating before they even enter the theatre!

While that makes sense, it sometimes doesn't play out that way. I was surprised and amused by how many parents brought along kids in their teens or younger to see Watchmen. This was at the Moore Warren 14 in Moore, OK. I doubt if those parents would have done so had they read the movie's R-rating details at all. The full frontal CGI nudity of Dr. Manhattan and gruesome violence might have taught those parents a lesson. At least I hope so.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-12-2010, 02:16 PM:

There are a few parents who are "taken by surprise" by the rating of a movie their kids have dragged them to see. We've had occasional people decide a movie was "too much" for their kids and ask for refunds. But far more often, the kids browbeat the parents into letting them stay. The operative words are usually "It's not THAT bad" followed quickly by "Everyone ELSE has seen it!"

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-12-2010, 03:31 PM:

Yeah, that's definitely a factor. It makes me think of the times my brother and I browbeat our parents into letting us see Alien and Saturday Night Fever. In the case of Watchmen, since the movie involved super heroes I have a feeling more than a few parents assumed the show would be reasonably kid/teen friendly.

I certainly sympathize with parents who are angry over adult-oriented content being shown on broadcast network TV stations and even basic cable networks. The new ratings system helps in some regard, but it can be very difficult or even impossible for parents to monitor what their kids are watching on TV 100% of the time. And then there's the added factor of the Internet.

It's much easier for a parent to be informed when it comes to seeing movies in commercial theaters. The MPAA ratings are more specific. On top of that the MPAA is strict to a fault on what it will allow to avoid a NC-17 rating. Premium cable TV networks show all sorts of stuff the MPAA would slam with the NC-17.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 08-14-2010, 07:55 PM:

A few Buena Vista movies released in 2001 (including Get Over It, Bridget Jones's Diary, Spy Kids and Atlantis) had the ratings displayed on a black screen at the beginning of the film, and there was no blue rating card at the end.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 08-14-2010, 08:05 PM:

I have very mixed feelings about limiting what kids want to see. When I was a kid (although there was only implied nudity, little explicit sexuality and little realistic violence back then), I saw whatever I wanted and I don't think it affected me in any negative way.

I remember that my mother said she would punish me if I went to see Psycho (the movie made her physically ill). I saw it anyway and was disappointed that it wasn't scarier. I was only 11 or 12 at the time.

On the other hand, with my own kid, I severely limited what she could see, and took her to quality films only. She never wanted (and still doesn't want) to see very violent films. Sexuality bothered me less as long as it was implied. Once she was in high school, I let her see anything she wanted. Fortunately, she had very good taste in movies.

Today I see parents taking very small pre-school children into explicitly sexual or violent films. I think these people are nuts. Research has shown that very young children understand much more than we give them credit for, even if they don't have the language yet to express it. My own 14-month-old grandson has been taught a small vocabulary of sign language in an attempt to end communication frustration (he now signs that he's thirsty instead of screaming). One of the things this has taught us is that he understands just about everything going on around him. And he was very attracted to television - even adult shows would take his full attention. My daughter got rid of the TV (they still watch selected shows on the computer.)

But on the other hand, most parents don't give a crap what their kids see as long as it doesn't contain explicit sex. Violence in films is completely accepted, whether it's war violence, monster death violence, or the incredible levels of torture in films like the Saw films. Why we think violence is no big deal, but sex is a very big deal is beyond me.

Personally, I think anyone under 13 should be banned from R-rated films, regardless of whether they're with a parent or not, if only to prevent idiots from bringing babies into theatres who cry during these movies. They'll always be some errors (back in the 1970s, kids who attended the Woodstock music festival were banned from seeing the movie), but overall, I think it would have more benefits than negatives, except for theatre owners and studios who make money from kids seeing movies intended for adults.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-15-2010, 12:05 PM:

quote: Martin Brooks
Why we think violence is no big deal, but sex is a very big deal is beyond me.

Martin, it is just our culture. You know the old saying, show a guy sucking on a naked erect nipple -- GASP!! immorallity! But show that breast being hacked away with a buzzsaw -- well that's just a good money making movie....get ready for the sequel.

We are a culture where we have conveniently limited what we call morality to only what happens between the navel and the knee-caps. We get holier-than-thou with anything having to do that that area of the anatomy, even if it is just two people making love -- better not show it; better not look at it! But every other form of immorality, not even an issue (unless, of course, they've hidden video on 60 Minutes).

Bet the guy who watches a porno DVD feels a pang of guilt and if he doesn't, no doubt his wife will remind him that he should. But when he fouls the planet by tossing the contents of his ashtray out the car window -- not even a second thought.

Raping the planet by shale mining and creating huge black whole land masses....it's just a matter of getting the right regulations so it's not illegal. It's BUSINESS; it's not immoral; come on....get with the program.

Posted by Rob Ferreira (Member # 3406) on 08-16-2010, 01:45 AM:

my biggest problem with the MPAA ratings is the double standard they seem to have with everything. If a movie is "historical," it can receive a lesser rating for its content than one that is made for the sheer enjoyment.
The last time I had to deal with this was during the release of The Express, which was released by Universal and was rated a straight PG (according to imdb: Rated PG for thematic content, violence and language involving racism, and for brief sensuality).
The movie was good, but because it was rated PG many parents were trying to bring their children to it. After having several parents walk out (the N-word is thrown around quite often, within the first half hour it's uttered at least 3 or 4 times - not to mention "bullshit" and "goddamn"), I started warning parents that, although it is rated PG, the film is based on and set in an entirely different time period, and that the language is rough for small children, in my opinion of course.
Several people still went, of course, and a few of those people even walked out and had the gall to ask for a refund. But there were a few parents who decided to talk their kids to a different movie, or come back and see it first ahead of time.

My problem is, I know that if this movie had been fictional, or just a different topic in general, the rating would have been PG-13. Hell even GREASE was recently re-rated to receive the PG-13 rating, and that is completely unnecessary because even babies fresh out of the womb have already seen that movie.

Their guidelines are ridiculous, and their standards are all over the board. They should really just disband all together, as it's sad that studios and filmmakers have to worry about ratings in relation to grosses. Maybe if parents just paid more attention to what their children were watching in general, we wouldn't have these problems. With all the websites out there (like kidsinmind, for example) which break down every single little aspect of every single curse, naked breast, and bullet that flies on screen, there is zero reason a parent can't be 100% informed before letting their child/taking their child to the cinema.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 08-16-2010, 10:03 AM:

The thing with the MPAA is that the organization is funded by the major movie studios. It's not an independent ratings organization and certainly not a government funded/controlled entity. This is part of why the MPAA's standards are "all over the place."

There are clear double standards with how the MPAA treats independent movies compared to major studio releases. They'll slap an indie release with a NC-17 in a heart beat and be very vague as to why the movie got a NC-17 (usually something to do with a portrayal of sex on screen, especially a woman acting like she is enjoying it). If a major studio release is crossing the line the MPAA will be very specific as to what cuts need to be made. South Park creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone have the unique perspective of being on both sides of this. Their 1990s indie movie Orgazmo was rated NC-17 but arguably had nothing but R-level material -less edgy than I anticipated. Those guys were given specifics on what to cut to avoid NC-17 ratings for South Park: Bigger, Longer & Uncut and Team America: World Police -both were major studio releases.

The MPAA thinks it is helping major movie studios, but it really isn't. What they're doing is letting cable TV become the top release platform for controversial, boundary-pushing material. The Internet is another wild card. Commercial movies are becoming comparitively more tame, not to mention more predictable with all the sequel-itis, remakes, TV show adaptations, etc. The 2 hour limit is already difficult enough for some stories to work. A mini series on HBO or Showtime could end up being the better release choice for some projects.