quote:

---

...the firetruck, which arrived just after the front tires blew (that excited the crowd a lot!).

...the crowd got a whole lot more for their money than they expected!

---

Maybe I should burn a car every Saturday night!

Glad things worked out alright for you Jack. I guess a kid running through a glass door and somebody running down one of our fences (for who knows how many times now) this past Wednesday wasn't so bad.
 

---

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-31-2003, 04:37 AM:
 

quote:

---

I guess a kid running through a glass door and somebody running down one of our fences (for who knows how many times now) this past Wednesday wasn't so bad.

---

Maybe not... but perhaps the lesson here is not to get too set in your ways. Something unusual is bound to happen, & you don't want to get so rigid you can't deal with them.

Glass door, eh? Maybe you're keeping them too clean!
 

---

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-31-2003, 09:48 AM:
 
One thing to think about in any emergency plan is to have a person wait out front with a flashlight and greet the firetruck/ambulance/cruiser.

All they have to do is waive the driver on in if that's all they want but, depending on who the chief is on this particular run he may want a run-down such as:

"Theres a car on fire over there. (Point)
The area's evacuated. No injuries. (Or tell how many injured.)
The manager's name is 'Jack'. He's over there, (point) wearing a red shirt." (Or whatever)

Think in terms of some guy leaning out the window of the truck, giving you 5 seconds to give him the skinny.

I used to work security at a large hotel. If there was an fire alarm and there was nobody out front, we would catch hell from the chief. All he wanted to hear was, "Third floor... No injuries... Jack is in charge." but if he didn't get this info he could really give us an ass-reaming. We were told that the time he had to take to find this out could have been spent saving lives.
 

---

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 08-31-2003, 11:19 AM:
 
Wow, Jack, what a show! Glad you all made it through relavtively unscathed.
 

---

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 08-31-2003, 12:34 PM:
 
Wow, patrons really got an action-packed show that night, eh? You could of charged them an extra buck for the 3D/Stereo Special Effects!

Running a large venue as we do, it became obvious long ago that we needed a thorough, specific plan, so years ago we sat down and plotted out a handbook detailing what's to be done in any emergence you can think of -- heart attacks, patron altercations, fire, false alarms (which happens more often than fire to be sure) falls or other accidents where medical attention is needed quickly (do you stop the show?). The trick is to anticipate everything and then train everyone as to their specific job in any of these events. Just like in football, you have different "plays" with everyone performing their preassigned task.

Everone has to know exactly where they are supposed to go, what they are supposed to do -- someone assesses the emergency and conveys to another whose job it is to call 911, someone goes to the road to direct emergency vehicles (as you guys did), someone makes the decision to stop the show and bring up the house lights based on predetermined criteria, etc. In the case of a building as big as ours, someone is always designated as the Fire Marshal whose job it is to make sure every member of the staff is accounted for; the staff knows where they are supposed to congregate with alternate locations if the primary can't be reached -- this prevents people from rushing back into a fire to get friends or loved-ones, unaware that they are already safe. Most of all, everyone needs to know that as soon as the agreed upon signal or code is sent, whatever it may be, unnecessary communication on your com system must cease so the walkie talkies and/or headset intercom can then be used only to transmit emergency communications by a designated person.

Naturally when you have a house with 2500 people, or a lot with a few hundred cars, what's usually more dangerous than the actual emergency, is if the audience gets paniced. And where there's smoke, there's panic. And it doesn;t even have to be smoke -- recently we had a false alarm at a high school graduation that takes place in our theatre with a full house. It was just a false alarm, but the audience doesn't know that -- so you have all of these parents hearing a horn sounding and strobe lights flashing and their child is off in the wings and can't be seen by the parents. There is a rush for the stage. Luckily a few years ago we installed an emergency squawk box with its own microphone and horns which will work even if the house system fails. The stage manager was able to explain it was a false alarm, that all the children were safe and that we were in the process of stopping the alarm. But it took time to make that announcement because we had to determine if it was indeed a false alarm.

We had ushers who are trained to move to the isles as soon as an alarm is sounded or our inconspicous, miniature, high intensity red lights, which are above the proscenium and in various other places back stage and in the lobby, are illuminated by the Stage or House Managers. The job then is to get patrons out of the theatre in an orderly manor. Of course none of this guarantees anything except that you are a bit a head of the game and no matter what happens down the line, you can know that you did everything you could to prevent tragedy.

We also have a generator system that kicks in in a blackout, which, incidently, DIDN'T kick in when we had big one a few weeks ago - that's being investigated. Luckily there was no show going on, but you can imagine the panic if all of a sudden every light on the stage goes out and the entire hall is black?! Funny thing is, when we put in the generator, we removed the battery operated emergency lights which would have worked just fine. Even with an usher compliment all wheelding flashlights, people can very easily get hurt if they are spooked.

I would imagine a DI would also do well with a small generator that could power a few selected lot lights and exit road markers, possibly even the sound system so you can tell the patrons what's going on. Without reassuring them, you could wind up with cars being driven wildly, all trying to get off the lot at once, perhaps even blocking emergency vehicles from getting to the fire or other emergency.

My dad was a fireman and he reiterated over and over: panic can be more fatal than any fire. And also, DON'T try to put out a fire yourself. He had seen so many tragedies cause by people trying to fight what they thought was a "small fire," that he refused to put fire extinguishers in our house. He said, there's the temptation to grab a extinguisher for a fire that looks small enough to contain. Thing is, most lay persons have no idea how fast a fire can flash. For example, you don't necessarily know what combustables are feeding a fire or what combustibles are in the area of what seems like a managable fire. In that car fire, there could easily have been a flash or even an explosion that could have been much more serious than just the relatively "tame" flames that could be seen coming out from under the hood. The oil cap could have been compromised and the minute the hood was popped, buring oil could have sprayed on the person who opened the hood and anyone near the car. Also, the gases from a fire can be deadly; depending on what is burning, a few breaths of those black toxic fumes could easily cause permenant lung damage. This of course is all speculation, but the rule of thumb should always be to let the fire company mess with anything burning and get everyone's asses as far away as possible.

I sure am glad nothing serious happened to anyone at your "event," Jack and I am impressed that you are making it a learning experience. Also, you are blessed to have a daughter Cheryl, who is so level headed that she could take charge of the situation.

Let's hope that's the first and last such experience. As me sweet mom used to say, "Well Frankie, learn from everything -- just chalk it up to experience." To which I would reply...."Yah, Ma....but I am running out of chalk!"

Frank
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-31-2003, 12:51 PM:
 
People are stupid. Some of the cars they drive are in such bad condition that they belong in the scrapyard. Bald tires, oil drippers, all four corners of the car seems to be smashed because the driver could not navigate away from a tree the "Just sprung up" in front of them, burned out headlamp/tail lamps, missing wheel lugs, no brakes, and yet they still drive them.
 

---

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-31-2003, 01:03 PM:
 

quote:

---

One thing to think about in any emergency plan is to have a person wait out front with a flashlight and greet the firetruck/ambulance/cruiser.

---

quote:

---

I would imagine a DI would also do well with a small generator that could power a few selected lot lights and exit road markers, possibly even the sound system so you can tell the patrons what's going on. Without reassuring them, you could wind up with cars being driven wildly, all trying to get off the lot at once, perhaps even blocking emergency vehicles from getting to the fire or other emergency.

---

I have "Office Depot"-type UPS's on each of the sound systems here, which lets me keep up communication for a while. We did find ourselves wishing we had a bullhorn when we were actually out in the field. That'll probably happen soon. We do have a generator here, though it is not hardwired. If needed, it takes about 15 minutes to roll it up to the building, plug it in, start it & switch the building over to it. Now that we've converted some of the cooking equipment to gas, the generator will run both the concessions and the booth.

Here are some pictures I got this morning. We could have taken some pretty dramatic shots of the fire... and the crowd last night. Strange... nobody thought of it at the time...






 

---

Posted by Ken Layton (Member # 133) on 08-31-2003, 01:23 PM:
 
Wow! Another car fire and I missed it. I had thought about coming up to the Rodeo last night, too.
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-31-2003, 01:53 PM:
 
I think everyone should by now realize that rubber hoses under the hood are attacked by oil and grease. Coupled with that idea, one must realize that today's modern engines run at a higher temperature than they have in the past.

I think lot of engine fires could be eliminated if:

1. Go to the Wishy-Washy and keep the engine and engine compartment clean! It also makes them easier to work on if the need arises.
2. It would not hurt to look under the hood once in a while and check the hoses, belts, etc. for signs of deterioration. Replace them if they are. A little preventative maintenance never hurt anything if done correctly.
 

---

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 08-31-2003, 01:58 PM:
 
As a general rule, if there's a fire of *any* kind, you as a businessperson should probably cover your ass by calling 911. You just never know what might happen when a fire starts, or what liability someone might try to pin on you for not calling 911 if something/anything happens.
 

---

Posted by Gerard S. Cohen (Member # 994) on 08-31-2003, 02:43 PM:
 
Bullhorns are effective and cheap enough so that one can be secreted in the manager's office, booth, concessions, etc. for use in an emergency for crowd control and audience reassurance.
They may prove more reliable than a central sound system if you can't get to the mic, or if the generator won't start.

Someone sometimes warns "The gas tank's going to explode!" for excitement, but this can occur, or there may be a reserve can of gas in the trunk, or unexpected inflammables. Keeping the crowd back far enough can be a problem.

I applaud Jack and Angel's emphasis on planning for emergencies. With news of terrorist car bombs in Israel, Iraq
Indonesia, etc., a thorough plan with practice drills
seems to me essential.
 

---

Posted by Travis Hubrig (Member # 1745) on 08-31-2003, 03:06 PM:
 
We had a fire in our popcorn kettle once, the popcorn oil ignited in the hot kettle... an assistant had the fire out within a minute of it starting, but we had the fire dept their to assess the situation and to clear smoke and give us the 'all clear'

The funniest thing, we had an annual fire inspection earlier that afternoon. Passed with flying colors.
 

---

Posted by Paul Turner (Member # 832) on 08-31-2003, 03:31 PM:
 
If the car is a manual transmission model make sure the way in front and behind the vehicle is clear (or blocked with something nonflamable). If a fire melts the starter solenoid and it makes contact, that sucker will be taking a walk. Nothing like an unguided, unmanned rolling aflame gas tank to add to the entertainment spetical. I was impressed how far a car can go on its starter motor when on fire the first time I saw this happen.
 

---

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 08-31-2003, 05:17 PM:
 
Glad to hear that no one was hurt and that the drive-in property wasn't damaged.

I like the idea of having a UPS for the sound system as well as some battery-powered megaphones (or wireless mic for the installed sound system). How long would a typical UPS power a standard drive-in system, anyway? Presumably radio transmitters require less power to run than field speakers.

I've occasionally thought that a large single-screen indoor house would be wise to have a slide projector and a set of slides that could be quickly flashed on the screen by the projectionist to help control panic in the event of a fire alarm. One might say something like "fire alarm has sounded - please walk calmly to the exits in the front and rear of the theatre" with arrows pointing to them and another might say "the fire alarm has malfunctioned; please remain calm and seated while we work to deactivate it." Of course this wouldn't do any good in the event of a power failure, but it couldn't hurt to have the slides made up and ready to use.
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 08-31-2003, 05:24 PM:
 
Paul, that is a good point you brought up. I'll have to remember that one. I think I will pass that along to some volunteer fire departments just in case they are not aware of the possibility.
 

---

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-01-2003, 11:21 AM:
 
Scott, good point. We did, in fact, have slides prepared years ago when we used to do the closed circuit fight transmissions. That crowd was one rowdy and, quite frankly, one dangerous bunch. And in those days before the fights from Vegas were done pay-per-view, the only places to see them were in sites that the producers set up in various theatres like ours. They were always full houses. One of the major problems ALWAYS was not having the front doors crashed by some drunk's pickup truck or not having the building set on fire or bombed by the irate fans who couldn't get in. They started off on the wrong foot even before anything even hit the screen. They were the most nerve-racking gigs we ever did. And we did quite a number of them; we all hated doing them, but the money was WAY too tempting for a non-profit to resist.

The technology in the early 80s was iffy at best. The very first ones we did were transmitted over land lines. At any time the sound and/or the picture could drop out, and did....a lot! Later satelite transmissions were not much better. Picture or sound or both would go out and the crowd would go bizzerk. I realized very early on that I'd better have something ready to sooth the savage beast. I had slides made up that basically said "Due to technical difficulties, the fight has been temporarily interupted at all locations but will be restored momentarily." second slide: "This is NOT a problem with our equipment but with the transmission equipment at the fight." Then, "Please be patient -- the fight will resume as soon as possible." The last slide stayed up on the screen, basically to prevent them from ripping apart our theatre....hopefully.

I also recorded a tape loop of the crowd noise during lulls in the announcer's descriptions; in those day we didn't have computers or .MPG or .WAV files etc. -- you spliced a length of tape together that went round and round in your tape deck, and to make sure the audience didn't hear repetition, you had to run a long loop that usually ran out to a tape roller guide a couple of feet away from the deck. I had the tape always running so if the fight sound dropped out, I could just fad up the tape so there was some sound. I got pretty good at it too....an audience of 2500 stomping their feet could never tell they were listening to a loop. If the picture went out, the slides were ready and immediately on the screen via a remote control that I had right next to my console. Even if only the picture went out, but the site was still transmitting sound, I learned quickly NOT to play the live sound but to play my crowd noise loop because if the audience heard the site announcer describe some exciting fight action and all they saw was a slide basically saying It's not our fault, they would go crazy....kicking the seats, stomping on the floor, looking for a usher to tear apart, etc. Did you ever hear what 2500 angry Brooklyn fight fans sound like stomping all together and kicking the seatbacks? Luckily for me, I was in a soundproof booth (metal fire doors LOCKED) five stories above the orchestra floor. The union insisted they provide a projectionist for the broadcasts; HE was sitting behind a three gun CTR projector IN THE MIDDLE OF ORCHESTRA!! heh heh....for once I was happy to let the union into my theatre!

For general safety we have cartridge tapes and players situated back stage, in front-of-house office and in the booth that could be activated in case of any emergency. We decided that even a professional announcer, let alone a stage manager or a front of house manager, in an emergency would not be able to make an announcement where his/her voice would not convey fright and nervousness, something the audience would surely pick up. So the tapes were made before-hand by a professional in a deep, calming, reassuring voice. They gave only enough information to get the people moving out of the theatre but not to actually say -- RUN FOR YOUR FREAKIN LIVES, as one might do if standing next to the fire backstage, for example.

It said something like, "A sensor has detected a problem. It is likely a false reading (notice we don't say the word "alarm") but for everyone's safety and to conform to city ordinances, we ask that you please walk quickly and orderly to the nearest exit. Please do not run. House ushers will assist you. You will be instructed to return when the problem is corrected." (unless the building burns down first...hehe.)

Naturally this being recorded in a studio, there wasn't any nervousness in his voice. I learned this the hard way in a theatre fire at the old Loews Kings theatre in Brooklyn that was opened for a gala performance a number of years ago. I still have the recording of the producer getting on the mic and telling about 1500 big wigs in gowns and tuxes that there was a fire in the booth (smoke bellowing out of the opened followspot window) and to leave the theatre. The terror in his voice would have made anyone jump over each other in panic to get to an exit. Even years later when I listen to it I get chills.

As for those fight gigs, I am sure glad we don't do them anymore! Our accountant isn't.

Frank
 

---

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 09-01-2003, 01:07 PM:
 
When I was managing a drive-in I put the word out that admission was free for police, fire personnel, etc.
Most nights there was at least one cop, a few firemen and usually the local paramedics.
This came in handy one night when a lady had a seizure in the concession stand - the paramedics were there in about 30 seconds.

The cops came in handy with crowd control - funny how quiet everything was with a state patrol car sitting in the 5th row.

Tony
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-01-2003, 02:11 PM:
 
I was doing a little research on car fires. Sometime if you get a chance, just do a search on "engine Fires" and "car fires" - you will hit the jackpot.

Sounds like many car fires are due to crappy design and inferior parts. Some of GM's engine fires was due to a PLASTIC intake manifold fracturing if the engine backfired on startup.

Fuel tanks, faulty ignition switches, mis-routed wires, ruptured rubber hoses, you name it. It seems to a growing problem with all manufacturers, not just GM or Ford.

I am glad Jack posted his experience at the drive-in. It keyed my memory about how hot the casting gets that surrounds the signal light/shift selector of the steering column. It sometimes gets too touch. As a matter of fact, it has burned the paint off some spots of the casting. Yesterday, I ripped the steering wheel off the truck to investigate. I have to do a little more dismantling (not much, though) to extract the wiring harness in the steering column for inspection. I'll post what I find.

Now I have to defend the rear wheel drive Fords, GM's, and Chrysler. Some people complain that in event of a rear-end collision, the fuel tank explodes. Well, if someone plows into the back of your rear-wheel drive car at 75mph like they tested the Crown Victoria, you damn right it's gonna blow! It probvably will on any car that has the fuel tank between the rear bumper and rear axle. Where else are they supposed to put the fuel tank???
 

---

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 09-01-2003, 05:55 PM:
 
Years ago there was a car at the Drive in my Dad worked at where someone was in a Ford Pinto and the starter cable was rubbing the Exhaust and shorted and the thing went up. This happened before the show started and my dad used an fire extinguisher in the booth to put it out. Don't remeber what else hapened after that but the fire dept finally showed up and sprayed under the hood just for show and left.

In defense of Chevrolet I know of a lot of Fords that became flames on wheels due to a defect in the fuel line connections under the hood.
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-01-2003, 09:00 PM:
 
I think my next vehicle will be an import. I am really fed up with the cars made by the "Big Three...."

After reading about all the recalls and other safety and equipment defects from plastic manifolds to uninstalled bolts to hold that junk together, I have "Had it" with them.
 

---

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-01-2003, 10:15 PM:
 
Paul,

Get a Mazda 626, or whatever they are calling it nowadays. It's virtually the same car as the Ford Probe. Ford bought the design from Mazda and "Americanized" it.

I traded in my old Neon for a Mazda. I'm glad I did. Practically, all I have ever done to it is put gas and oil into it. I'm on my tird year of ownership and it's only used up one set of tires. It has yet to go through a set of brake pads. (It's a 5-speed.)

Most Mazdas have more American parts content than their US counterparts do, anyways. (According to federal regulations, they have tell you the percentage of parts that have a country of origin outside the USA.)
 

---

Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 09-02-2003, 01:30 AM:
 

quote:

---

1. Go to the Wishy-Washy and keep the engine and engine compartment clean! It also makes them easier to work on if the need arises.

---

Unfortunately, this practice is now illegal in certain states and/or municipalities. Something about the wastewater becoming contaminated with grease and oil and flowing into waterways. But you are right, a clean engine compartment did make working on the car a LOT nicer.

-Aaron
 

---

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 09-02-2003, 01:09 PM:
 
This is off the subject, but here goes:

Jeeze, Aaron...Is is illegal to fart in public in California, too?

Grease and oil in the waste water....What's that streak in the middle of the wheel tracks on the highways and city streats? If there is a dip in the road, the streak gets heavier. Something you don't want to drive over with a motorcycle.

About 3 years ago, the maintenance crews decided to oil the road in the vicinity of Highway 20. They forgot to check with the weatherman.

The next day it rained cats and dogs. That stretch of highway became an ice skating rink. Cars and tractor-trailers were scattered everywhere. It looked like a junkyard out there. Luckly, nobody was seriously hurt.

Randy, I just ran a search on Mazda 626 cars. CAS (Center for Auto Safety) cites complaints of brake problems, seat belt failure, fires, transmission problems, engine failure, unintended acceleration and airbag defects. Other major DOT investigations into Mazda defects include an inadvertent door opening on 1988-1991 626's and 929's.

CAS has received complaints about transmission problems ranging from slipping and vibration to unintended shifting resulting in expensive repairs and premature replacement. Mazda has issued numerous Technical Service Bulletins on transmission defects including a rebuild program for Electronically Controlled Automatic Transmissions (EC-AT) on 1982-90 models.

What the Mazdas are like today, I don't know. But one thing can be assured: I will not buy a very late model car for two reasons: They are junk, and if you see a pre-owned one on a used car lot the first question that comes to mind is, "Why is it there?"

The General Motors Saturn: (supposedly one of the best cars made today. I would consider owning one.)

It has it's problems, too. Service bulletins issued by Saturn document dozens of problems, including engine, transaxle, and other components. Manual transaxles may pop out of fifth gear, and automatics have a harsh or erratic upshift. On SC models, using the horn can cause the headlights to pop up. The engine can miss, surge, backfire, lack power on acceleration, or stall after start-up. Saturn notified about 1,800 owners of 1991 models that their engines had incorrect coolant supplied by Texaco and that they would get new cars. Engine problems continue to plague Saturn with 1991-97 models needing new cylinder heads due to coolant mixing with the oil. Saturn extended the warranty to 6 years/100,000 miles in June 1999, only for 1994-96s with 1.9L SOHC engines.
 

---

Posted by Robert Golding (Member # 746) on 09-05-2003, 02:13 AM:
 
I had a rather funny experience a few years ago. We had just finished our evening shows (drive in theatre), when four of the cutest girls walked up. They thought they had a dead bat. and could we help them. I went over to the car and it wouldn't start, so I tried to open the hood. It wouldn't open so I turn on my flashlight to find a spot burn into the hood. I asked if anyone had been sitting on the hood, to which they said everyone had during the evening. I asked if anyone had felt any heat to which one girl said she burnt her butt. Needless to say, they had welded the bat. to the hood. They had to have it towed as the hood would not opening without a crowbar.
 

---

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 09-05-2003, 09:52 AM:
 
Paul,

I have the 2001 model with 5-speed trans. (You probably won't ever see me driving a car with automatic unless it's borrowed/rented.)

The main problems with the 2001 Mazda 626 are associated with the air bags and seat belts. Air bags don't go off when people think they are supposed to. Seat belts don't retract sometimes. There are the odd problems with the engine control computer and electrical stuff. The computers report false error codes. My old Neon was ALWAYS reporting false codes. The problems in the Mazda are a lot less severe and far less frequent. There have been a few instances of keyless entry systems triggering at seemingly random times. All of the problems with transmissions are in automatics so that's a moot point for me.

From my homework I have found no recalls or safety investigations on the 2001 Mazda 626. There have been no crashes caused by equipment failures. I couldn't find any reports of the 2001 Mazda where the cars have caught fire unless there was another cause.

The only problem I have with my car is the air conditioning. The compressor doesn't run. I think it's a faulty relay. Air conditioning was on the car when I got it but it's a feature I didn't specifically want. I prefer to use the 4-50 air. (4 windows down and 50 miles per hour.! ) I only ever used it, maybe a half-dozen times. I might get it fixed some day but I don't need A/C that much. It's just money I don't need to spend. Frankly, I don't care much.

I'm really happy with the car and would recommend it to anybody. OTOH, I know opinions about cars are like ass holes... Everybody's got one and they all stink!
 

---