This is topic New Rialto Sign in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 10-08-2003, 05:56 PM:
 
We are tearing off our old awning and putting up a new sign. I will post photos of the progress here as there will not be too many of them.

Here is a photo of the tear off.



This is not the new sign. This is just a temperary sign and a size study. I think you will like the final sign.

And here is a photo of Ky and Michael watching the tear off.


 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 10-09-2003, 01:19 AM:
 
I hope the new one will have enough neon on it to blackout the entire neighborhood!! I wish the neon on my sign still worked, half of it isn't even there anymore.

Danny
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-09-2003, 01:28 AM:
 
I look forward to seeing pics of the new sign. If the new sign says "Movies with Nekkid People in Them" your business will quintuple. Of course since seniors are a large portion of your clientele, perhaps not.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 10-15-2003, 11:41 AM:
 
Here is a picture now that the new composite roofing has been installed.



Yes, a raised metal seam roof would have looked better. But the landlord agreed to pay for the roofing job and refused the added expense of metal, which is twice as expensive as composition. But the new sign will shine against this roof, so it will recede in to the background and everybody will think it's great.
 

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Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 10-15-2003, 01:58 PM:
 
Hey Ian where did you get that picture of the common criminal that you are posting?

I notice this same illegal picture has appeared in other posts.

How much would you charge for a baker's dozen?
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-12-2003, 06:07 PM:
 
I haven't forgotten about this post, it's just that it's taking too damn long.

The roofing is done and we were supposed to get the new sign November 17th. But the sign shop is delayed and we won't get it till after Thanksgiving.
 

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Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 11-12-2003, 07:10 PM:
 
Ian, These guy's are taking you and your partner for a ride. I don't think they have even started your sign. They will demand another payment up front before they will split for greener pastures. They are maost likely setting up Joe Redifer as their next victim. Ian beat them to the punch and have them arrested....call the cops now. Joe will thank you later.

[ 11-12-2003, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: Bob Maar ]
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 11-12-2003, 08:03 PM:
 
I just hope Ian isn't using some gawd-awful clip art company like Signtronix. Their stuff looks like and if you got close enough to it their displays would probably smell like too!
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 11-13-2003, 01:04 PM:
 
It's a top sign shop in the bay area. The guy loves our theatre and comes by often. We are a small fish and their shop is backed up. I'm not worried.
 

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 11-13-2003, 04:57 PM:
 
I've got an "off-site" marquee for our theatre, and I can't even get an electrician to go down and hook the dam thing up.

My sign is 10 feet wide X 5'-6" tall, bottom of sign is 8' off the ground. The trench is dug, the meter deposit is paid, the commercial electric timer is sitting on my desk, and the 175 feet of conduit is lying in a pile in the weeds behind the sign.

I can't find an electrician who want to do such a small job.
 

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Posted by Bob Maar (Member # 763) on 11-14-2003, 02:28 AM:
 
Barry call Ian's sign shop in San Francisco they will come and hook it up for you.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-10-2003, 02:05 PM:
 
It's almost done. They got most of it up yesterday before the horrendous rains started. We had 7" of rain last night.



I'll post a finished photo and an old photo when they get the job done.
 

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Posted by John Scott (Member # 520) on 12-10-2003, 02:39 PM:
 
That looks absolutely gorgeous. Nice work!
 

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Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 12-10-2003, 02:42 PM:
 
Nice looking sign. That rain came in fast --- not a cloud in the sky in your photo.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-10-2003, 03:05 PM:
 
The sign looks great! Very classy.

(You're _still_ showing Winged Migration???)
 

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Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-10-2003, 03:50 PM:
 
Spiffy! But you missed out on having a larger sign than the Grand Lake has! The good thing is that your Theatre doesn't look like the front of the Rialto Grocery Store any longer.......
Mark @ CLACO
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 12-10-2003, 07:26 PM:
 
VERY nice looking sign you have there! 110% better than what you had before.


 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-10-2003, 07:36 PM:
 
Wow, that is indeed classy!
 

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Posted by Kevin Wale (Member # 1851) on 12-10-2003, 11:13 PM:
 
Yes, that is sweet. Very, very nice.
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 12-10-2003, 11:46 PM:
 
A great sign indeed. Congrats Ian and Ky.
 

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Posted by Bryan Fournier (Member # 264) on 12-10-2003, 11:57 PM:
 
Great looking sign! It's good to see a classy sign/marquee with a vintage lookl.
 

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Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 12-11-2003, 03:54 AM:
 
i could be wrong because of the glare, but do you have 12 movies? 5 screens, right? wow. did you get a film print of alien? around here they only showed it in . that. fancy sign. are you going to tear down the theater now and replace it with one that matches the sign? sorry, don't mean to sound mean. really, it's nice. it looks like something that might come out of a pop-up book.

carl
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 12-11-2003, 08:27 AM:
 
Eh...you people have no imagination. How about lose the big "R" in the middle and replace it with Ian's face...same pose as the F-T picture...a meter or so across...moulded in relief?!?! I mean, I ask you, what will draw the attention of passersby more, an R or Ian?
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-11-2003, 12:24 PM:
 
As promised, here are a few photos.



This is a picture taken right after we took over the theatre.



This is what caused us to want a new sign. The awning blew out during a storm last winter. To think that it took almost a year to get a new sign.



Ta da! here is the new sign completed just this morning. Note that the light box for the movie times has also been fixed up. We painted it black, and got new plastic for it. It also no longer has numbers on it, therefore we don't have to worry about sticking the wrong titles in the wrong spaces.

There's only one more photo that I will make you wait for. Tonight I will take a photo in the dark so you can see how it is lit.

Not that the building no longer says Lakeside. I think I will modify my telephone greeting. I will not longer say 'Rialto Cinemas Lakeside' I will now just say 'Rialto Cinemas.'
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 12-11-2003, 12:45 PM:
 
Looks great Ian.

I think the night shot better be a sneak preview!
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-11-2003, 02:52 PM:
 


Theres not enough Graemlins to express my emotions! That looks really awesome, Ian! Congrats, you all should be very proud.

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 12-11-2003, 03:01 PM:
 
Looks really good!

I was going to say. I had been up there to watch Elephant the other night and I was kind of confused as to what all the noise was about with your new sign when really all I saw was a nice new roof and letter boards.

But now that I see the pictures, really nice!

And congratulations on shedding the Lakeside name. You are now responsible for causing another confusing rift in theatre history that somebody will get confused about 40 years from now. They will swear up and down that the Lakeside Cinema has been demolished, and Adam and I will have to beat them into submission and force them to believe that the big pile of junk that was Lakeside Cinemas is now all nice and shiny and beautiful.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-11-2003, 04:21 PM:
 
Hey Ian & Ky,

Sign looks great! For as long as it toook to complete, I would have expected nothing less...

How many customer comments have you had regarding the change? That's a key indicator as to what people notice....
 

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Posted by Charles Everett (Member # 889) on 12-11-2003, 04:46 PM:
 
Maybe Ian borrowed a few tips on facade design from AMC -- but AMC isn't in the Sonoma Valley.

Now that the facade is new Ian should have his arthouse's website redesigned. Putting all those plot summaries on the home page eats up bandwidth.
 

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Posted by Ian Price (Member # 14) on 12-11-2003, 07:52 PM:
 

 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 12-11-2003, 07:57 PM:
 
Sweet!
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-11-2003, 10:17 PM:
 
Yeah, What Daryll said..

That's a far cry from what she USED to look like..
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-11-2003, 10:51 PM:
 
That is pretty nice sign, Ian. The angles in the design give the structure a good difference in depth, which is what many typical signs lack. Most displays you see by the roadside are just flat. I like the night shot. Good placement of the external lighting. The halo effect on the "R" is classy touch.

Of course, I really like signs with lots of exposed neon. It's really good when you can get them so bright you have to wear sunglasses or even welding glasses to look at them! Here's a picture of me standing next to the main cabinet of a pylon sign we just finished for a local burger joint:


 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-12-2003, 12:24 AM:
 
Excellent sign!
 

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Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 12-12-2003, 09:43 AM:
 
Ian/Kyl--

The overall size of a sign, but rather the aesthics and pleasing
layout is what makes a good sign. I, for one, would look at a
sign that is not so "busy" so as not to "jamb" and overload my
brain with useless crap. GOOD LOOKING SIGN GUYS!!

fjn
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-12-2003, 09:12 PM:
 
There's a lot of things at work that go (or you prevent from going) into a sign to make it successful. Asthetics and pleasing layout are certainly priorities. But the biggest priority by far is making the thing readable/functional at an appropriate distance. A great deal of signs fail miserably in fulfilling that most important criteria. Car drivers should be able to recognize the sign and still have enough road in front of them to safely negotiate traffic and turn into the business. A sign that doesn't manage this is a complete waste of money no matter how much money the business owner supposedly saved on that great deal. How good a deal could it have been if you must park next to the sign just to read it?

Clutter and inappropriately small sizing are the two biggest problems in sign design. The clutter thing comes from a basic misunderstanding in how outdoor advertising works. Even many professional advertising people make mistakes in that regard. Lots of ad people kind of look down their noses at the sign and billboard industry as step children of the ad industry. So they don't take the medium seriously and expect all their print conventions to work. However, signs beat the hell out of all other forms of media in terms of customer exposures per dollar invested. Signage is THE cornerstone of advertising. But you have to know what you're doing to get the most out of it.

Conventions that work in a phone book, business card or even a TV ad will often not transfer well to a sign. For example, many signs are overripe with phone numbers. Never in my life have I ever remembered a phone number I saw on a sign or billboard. Even when there's a phone number I want to commit to memory (such as the number of a gorgeous woman I just met) I have to write it on paper. How in the hell am I going to write down a phone number when I have two hands on the steering wheel? Sure, one can argue cellphones make a good case for phone numbers on signs. But many states are outlawing cellphone use while driving since it ranks #2 behind drunk driving in the cause of serious car accidents. Finally, a phone number on a sign just makes that business look "small time." No national companies put that junk on their signs. Logo only. When I want the number of a business, I pick up a damned phone book and look for their name. That underscores the importance of brand identity and how it communicates on a sign.

The Rialto sign does what a movie marquee should do: identify the theater name/brand in an effective way, list the movies playing and leave any other needless crap off the sign. Good job.
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 12-12-2003, 11:40 PM:
 
Nice Ian and Ky!
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-13-2003, 02:44 PM:
 
WHOA! That night shot is friggin AWESOME!!!

The only problem I see is the film titles. The ones on the far right are a little off. The top line should move a little "this way" and the bottom one slightly "that way." Have a look at my digital correction:


Do you plan to get more than just the five poster cases outside, since it appears you almost always have more than 5 movies?

Bobby is so right. Phone numbers on signs are really tacky. I saw one driving home on a Spanish market. The phone number was displayed larger than the business name! I wonder how many calls they get...

What's even more tacky is theaters that put up "Now Hiring" or "Gift Certificates Available" on the marquee. ESPECIALLY if all the slots are numbered for auditoriums. We would always get some smartass who wanted to know "What's Now Hiring about and when is it playing?"

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 12-13-2003, 08:05 PM:
 
Charles,

Our website was designed to provide easy access to information for our customers. Putting the film descriptions, film titles, and showtimes on the front page makes the site easy to use for our customers. As an arthouse, our customers skew older and older customers are not necessarily on the cutting edge to technology adoption. We wanted the site to have the most requested info on the front page. Neither Ian or I are big fans of the animated Flash splash screen like all the movie sites. So we adamently don't have Flash animation. So, needless to say, sorry you don't like our site, but it serves our purposes nicely.
 

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Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 12-13-2003, 09:32 PM:
 
Right on, ky!
fjn
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-13-2003, 10:29 PM:
 
Nice sign and nice website, guys.

Charles says, "Now that the facade is new Ian should have his arthouse's website redesigned. Putting all those plot summaries on the home page eats up bandwidth.."

That's just false. The text is 18k (which is miniscule anyhow), which is 12% of the 145k of inlined images that get downloaded along with it anyway. If you're going to make an argument, please make one that's accurate.

I agree the website nicely conveys the information most patrons are going to want. One flaw is the requirement to scroll to see all of what is playing. Maybe consider a quick listing of the titles at the top of the page (linking to further down the page), or running a line of one-sheet images horizontally at the top.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-13-2003, 10:49 PM:
 
Ky, great sign AND website!

Do as most all of us do and pay no attention to what "he" posts... I have yet to see ANYTHING intelligent from "him".

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 12-13-2003, 11:18 PM:
 
Flash websites are evil and annoying. I've gotten to the point where a website must meet the following criteria or I cease visiting it immediately:

1. NO popups
2. NO flash
3. Must work in browsers other than IE

The Rialto cinema meets those 3 and is very well organized. Whoever designed it did a nice job. I especially like the FAQ page.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 12-14-2003, 10:57 AM:
 
Amen, Bobby! Well said.

Great signage, guys! Congratulations!
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-14-2003, 10:15 PM:
 

quote:

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a picture of me standing next to the main cabinet of a pylon sign we just finished for a local burger joint

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quote:

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Neon RULES!

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Neon's nice, but I'm a sucker for billions of indcandescents on chase/twinkler circuits.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-15-2003, 06:01 PM:
 
Neon or incandesant lamps? Why not have both:



This is part of a multiple sign package job we're developing for a casino in Oklahoma. Open face channel letters (filled with animated incandesant lamps) stacked on a second level of channel outlines holding a very bright outline row of green neon. I really hope the Comanche Nation signs off on this one soon because I really busted my ass on that project!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-15-2003, 07:33 PM:
 
I agree... chasers, spellers, flashers, and scintillators are really cool incandescent lamp EFX and controllers if used properly.

BUT! NEON RULES!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-15-2003, 08:44 PM:
 
One thing's for sure, American Electric Power likes it (collecting the money from those meter reads). A sign that requires only one 20 amp circuit? Wimpy!
 

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Posted by Chris Markiewicz (Member # 1415) on 12-16-2003, 01:22 PM:
 
(Chiming in late) Great, classy sign, Ian and Ky!
 

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-16-2003, 09:00 PM:
 
That's just one of the best signs I've seen in the last 30 years! Good one guys.

The Orpheum www.orpheum.com.au used to have a great neon sign.



But they've all but given up on it now and looks just terrible. Very sad indeed.
 

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Posted by Jeff Taylor (Member # 443) on 12-24-2003, 09:01 AM:
 
In response to the popular view that neon rules, and I heartily agree, icy winters in the Northeast can be really tough on those neon units, and how many of you guys have to pay the repair bills? For one really classy pylon/reader board sign I have with lots of neon it came to $18,000 last winter in broken tubes. Ouch!
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-24-2003, 06:43 PM:
 
$18,000? Did the sign have over a half a mile of neon on it or what? The price sounds pretty damned steep. Also, how old was this neon? If it was fairly brand new stuff it may not have been processed correctly. We don't have the most difficult winters out here in Oklahoma but it can still get pretty bitter cold at times. Very little of the neon we produce gets harmed by cold weather. Typically hail or vandals are the main enemies.

I've been on a crusade of sorts lately trying to get lots of businesses to take their signage marketing very seriously and also be very picky on who they use to design, build and service it. For some really odd, infuriating reason many business operators just have this notion that all signs and sign companies are the same --so getting the cheapest price is the main goal. Not true in the slightest possible sense. Unfortunately, there is next to nothing in terms of barriers to make some one qualify to get into the sign design, manufacturing and servicing business. There are a lot of no-talent shade tree mechanic types that make awful looking shit. They bring down the image and respectability of the sign industry as a whole and screw things up horribly for the people in the business who make beautiful displays and provide companies with a great product and sound marketing investment. Fly by night hacks claming they offer the best deals and cheapest prices are a dime a dozen. No matter how great the deal may seem, you can usually depend on the sign company offering the cheapest price as being most likely to waste your money and make your store front look hideously stupid.
 

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Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 12-24-2003, 11:04 PM:
 
To replace all neon and electical in this sign in we were quoted from 3 different sources between $15,000 and $30,000.



Taken a couple of years ago.



Taken A LONG time ago.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-24-2003, 11:50 PM:
 
When it comes to replacing the entire electrical system of a large sign, it is easy to surpass the $10,000 mark and well above that. "Blade" style cantilever signs like the one pictured above can be especially expensive to overhaul. There's lots of labor involved. Often you have to remove the sign and take it back to the shop to overhaul it properly. If the sign is old you may have to replace the beams or pylons supporting it. Very often support steel can be the most expensive item going into a sign.

Neon can be costly. Still, any business with a storefront is going to reap bigger dividends by investing well in their on-premise signage. You get far more customer exposures for every dollar spent on signage than you do on any other form of advertising media by far. And neon gets lots and lots of attention.
 

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Posted by Joshua Lott (Member # 240) on 12-25-2003, 12:38 AM:
 
Bobby,

I would have to agree that it is well worth the cost. Unfortunatly the owners of this theatre decided to just leave it "as is."

It was my understanding that the prices quoted were for neon, power supplies and such. No structure or painting work.

One of the companies that came in around the $20,000 mark seemed to get the most bang for the buck, and was interested in seeing this theatre sign back to "original."

Oh Well!
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 12-25-2003, 01:52 AM:
 
To Neon Sign complainers: Get insurance and/or move to where the ice "ain't so bad." ***OR*** use BORING painted signs.

'Nuff said....

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-25-2003, 02:20 AM:
 
I've got a friend who ran a theater in a downtown area, the vertical sign over the sidewalk marquee wasn't lighted because folks busted out the neon, etc. That sign wasn't repaired due to sign company expense, including the fact that the city required the street to be closed when the folks came in to work on the sign.
 

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