Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: has anyone got Gov safety approval for film projectirs

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Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 10-15-2003, 03:03 AM:

I Have has a request from an electrical inspector for the Australian certificate of approval number for new projectors. They have been imported and used successfully for the past 30+ years without any safety problems. None of the importers have ever heard of the requirement- but it does exist here, as we have just found on a state gov. industrial relations/electrical safety website. It seams the owners (a local council arts group) complained to them because they couldn't get voluntary operators and make a go of it. Has any one formally got Gov. approval for film projectors?

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-15-2003, 09:43 AM:

In Ontario all provection equipment must have a safety approval sticker from either CSA ULC Ontario Hydro or a recognized independent test lab (UL is not accepted) that verifies it meets our electrical codes
One issue that is commononly found is some consoles are open on the underside to the florr that is illegal since they are in effect a electrical device and must be fully enclosed so plate have to be welded on
Other issues of concern are flame spread of insulation, conductor size and spacing between devices

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 10-16-2003, 11:16 PM:

Those projectors with the open undersides would normally be sitting on a concrete floor. Seems like there is no need for a closed bottom unless the projector is sitting on a wood floor. Also, it doesn't matter how safe a projector is when installed if it is allowed to become in disrepair.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 10-17-2003, 12:01 AM:

Up here, if the projectors do not have the Underwriter's Laboratory sticker, most electrical inspectors will not "sign off" until a document certifying UL approval is presented.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-17-2003, 10:29 AM:

Paul,
I've only met three electrical inspectors in 20 years, and close to 350 booth installs that even had a clue as to what they were looking at to begin with. Most electrical and fire inspectors jaws drop to the floor when they arrive in the booth of a large multiplex the first time. 99% of them only look at breaker vs. wire size and that all electrical covers are in place before they will let you open. The three that actually knew something and looked were in West Bend, WI, Janesville, WI., and Culver, IN. In Janesville I actually did all the electrical and equipment install on the first booth myself with assistance from a dealer friend from Texas who supplied some of the equipment. We then called the electrical insector in to go over it. He only had a copuple of small complaints that we took care of then duplicated that in six other booths. He was very appreciative that I called him in to go over it before the brunt of the install commenced. However, none of the inspectors even asked to see, or looked for any approved stickers at all, including all the installs I've done in and around Chicago. Perhaps with the exception of a handful of cities I think testing stickers have become somewhat of a moot point in most places in the U.S. these days on new installs. In smaller cities many local inspectors only ever deal with one theatre inspection in their lifetime so how would they know what to look for...... That console installation in Heber was a good example of an inspector not knowing what to look for..... If he did the theatre would have been closed down long before we arrived that day to install the console as very little, if any, of the booth there has ever met codes.
Mark

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 10-18-2003, 04:01 AM:

Just checked the OZ Government website. Fees to approve projectors are AU$550. --Puts the price up a bit.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-19-2003, 10:08 AM:

Kevin,
But if you sell between 10 and 30 projectors per year it would be a mere pittance per machine added on as a certification fee, and thats not too bad. I can't imagine that every machine you import unless its a different make/model would have to be re-certified. Hey, at least they're not in the THX price realm of certification. You wouldn't even want to know what UL charges to do it over here. Many large manufacturers can't even afford to think about UL...and then its not even the leading recognized certifier over here any longer.
Mark
Mark

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-19-2003, 01:08 PM:

Mark,

Sometimes that is the problem...the only thing the inspector knows to look for on that "strange" equipment is the UL (or ETL) sticker. I have had many inspectors look for it. I once had to pull an IREM rectifier since it wasn't lab inspected (they now are but not this older one).

Steve

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 10-19-2003, 10:05 PM:

I've heard of an inspector being satisfied that a populated sound rack, complete with a multi-circuit AC distribution setup, was all approved by being shown the UL sticker that came on the empty rack.

Posted by Paul G. Thompson (Member # 655) on 10-20-2003, 02:16 AM:

Yeah, Mark. I remember that place in Heber. That was a real doozy.

The inspectors really are getting with it up here. They are finally doing their job. I have heard of some heavy fines issued because of commercial wiring not being done by licensed electricians.

Yes, there are some inspectors that don't know their ass from two bits. Some still think the average theater projection booth has a bunch of 16mm Bell & Howell "Cameras" sitting on top of a card table. [Mad]

I wonder if I would go to jail if I told the inspector to hold on to this wire when I fired the igniter? [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-20-2003, 08:40 AM:

Paul,
What I normally did...although the Janesville job was an exception, was to arrange to work under the auspicies of the electrical contractor. That way I was always covered. I have little time to do things that way any longer though, and now put up with awful electricians as everyone else does. Since being out here and doing over 100 screens I can only recall two really good contracting firms with competant electricians working for them.
Mark @ CLACO

Posted by Kevin Baglow (Member # 721) on 10-25-2003, 06:56 AM:

One of the projectors I have to get approved (for $550)is a new 16mm with a 1K Xenon,
I only sold one, and doubt if there will ever be any more buyers for 16mm. The council wanted one to screen government owned archival films, which is pretty unusual.
I guess they will just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.