Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: ?? on old Pre-show cartoons

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Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 10-18-2003, 08:13 PM:

While cleaning out our booth. (Think it was the first time since the 1940 opening!) We found 4 old cartoons, I presume for pre-show entertainment. How old I don’t know, I cant imagine that they are that old based that the quality of the film is in really good shape. All four cartoons are 5 to 7 minutes long and from the "Tom & Jerry" series. Any one else remember these or have any idea when they might have been shown? [Smile]

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-18-2003, 08:24 PM:

What were the titles?

Should be a copyright date in the titles/credits of each, which would indicate the earliest they could be from. Cartoons were still in wide use during the 1960's, as I showed many at the drive-in 1967-1970.

Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 10-18-2003, 08:28 PM:

I will have to check the titles & credits when I am at work Monday.

One of the 'episodes' was (I think)
'Tom & Jerry: Trip to Space'

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-21-2003, 01:41 AM:

One cautionary note, they could very well be on nitrate base stock. You may find the word NITRATE along one of the edges. This is important information because nitrate film needs to be handled with special care and run only on projectors that meet the old nitrate safety standards, which, if you are in a modern booth running platters, yours will not. Nitrate film handled without observing safety precautions poses a serious fire hazard.

To complicate things, the film may be nitrate even though the words NITRATE are not found. With older film like what you've found, unless it specifically says SAFETY FILM on the edge, assume that it is nitrate and handle it accordingly until you can have it tested.

Because we hear about all the BAD things that happen to film like vinegar syndrome and color fading, etc., inspite of all that, film, whether nitrate based or triacetate, is quite physically robust and can withstand some pretty dastardly abuse; and it is not uncommon to find film which is some 50 plus years old and which has been relatively poorly cared-for, yet can run through a projector without much trouble, color fade not withstanding. Now a 50yr old IBTech print....that not only can run easily through a projector, but the color can still blow an audience away.

Do make sure you find out if you are dealing with nitrate prints.

Frank

Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 10-21-2003, 03:11 AM:

Thanks for the warning Frank. I only remember seeing SAFTEY FILM printed on two of the cartoons so before I run them I will certainly take a better look! [Smile]

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 10-21-2003, 07:35 AM:

Cartoons were part of the pre-show going back to the early day’s of motion pictures, and were available from distributors up though the 1960’s. In 1974, MGM re-released many of their family films as part of a “children’s matinee” series. This series had special posters and trailers, and MGM cartoons (such as Tom & Jerry) were available if the theatre requested them.

/Mitchell

Posted by Nate Lehrke (Member # 1460) on 10-21-2003, 03:24 PM:

The four cartoons titles:

Tom & Jerry - "Greek Meow"
Tom & Jerry - "Mouse into Space"
WB: SYLVESTER "HOPY DAZE"
HOOT CLOUT "GOLD STRUCK"

Not a single one had a copyright date in any of the credits. [Confused]

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 10-21-2003, 03:34 PM:

If it says "Safety Film" or even "Safe-T Film" you are safe, as they are not Nitrate. You will send me the Tom and Jerry cartoons post-haste and you will enjoy sending them to me. Don't screw them up when you run them!

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-21-2003, 03:47 PM:

Be VERY careful about identifying nitrate vs. "safety" film just from the edgeprint. Sometimes the edgeprint from a nitrate negative was printed onto "safety" film -- even though it says "nitrate" as clear letters against a black background, the print itself is safety film. But if a triacetate "safety" film negative was printed onto nitrate print film, you may mistakenly identify it as "safety" film from the printed-through edgeprint, when it is actually very flammable nitrate print stock [Eek!]

:

http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/hse/H-182.pdf

As far as the cartoons:

It's Greek to Me-ow (1961): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0055025/

Mouse Into Space (1962): http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0056252/

Hoppy Daze (1961): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0054992/

Gold Struck (???) (1974): http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0150745/

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-21-2003, 03:47 PM:

The release date for "Hoppy Daze" is Feb. 11, 1961 .

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 10-21-2003, 04:09 PM:

Why all the concern about a 60s print being nitrate guys? I started in the booth in '49 and worked there continually in various theatres until 1970 and never ran into a nitrate print. I think the shift to safety film was made in the late 30s. That's why, until recently, projectors, soundheads and magazines had doors on them and why local building codes required "fire shutters" on the ports.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 10-21-2003, 04:15 PM:

The cautions about nitrate come from Frank's concern that the cartoons may have dated back to before 1952. Obviously, these seem to all be after 1960, so they are safety film.

Kodak converted motion-picture print film production to triacetate in the early 1950's.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 10-21-2003, 04:27 PM:

NFS depots supplied theatres many cartoons over the years.
Besides cartoons they also handled other shorts. They only handled safety stock since the 50's. When the Los Angeles depot closed up, they left many cartoons and shorts in their former warehouse.
During the 80's, Pacific Theatres used cartoons in their walk-in theatres. They booked cartoons from Universal and UA, because they were cheaper to rent.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 10-21-2003, 04:44 PM:

Do not send them to Joe. He will cut them up as film cells and make millions.
Send them to me as I will give them a decent and caring home to be treasured for the art form that they are.

Oh yeah [Wink]

Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 10-21-2003, 07:32 PM:

Arent these T&J's some of the ones done by Gene Dietch?

Ugh. Even my 4 year old nephew doesent laugh at these. He loves the older H-B made shorts, and the Chuck Jones Tower 12 shows...

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 10-21-2003, 08:07 PM:

Yes they are.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-21-2003, 08:08 PM:

A frame of film is not a "cel" no matter what eBayers say.

Posted by Sam Hunter (Member # 1119) on 10-21-2003, 09:31 PM:

Steve said

quote:
A frame of film is not a "cel" no matter what eBayers say.

I know that.