This is topic Our Spiderman Banner Has Gone Missing... What To Do? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-09-2004, 08:32 AM:
 
Now, I know for a fact that we received a Spiderman II banner. And I know that it was sittng with the rest of the banners for about two or three weeks. And I know that yesterday, our self proclaimed "promotions manager" was re-organizing, and got rid of a lot of old banners. And I also know that she likes to take BIG stuff to give to her boy friend for whatever he does with them - but usually does not take anything until the film's been released. The Spiderman banner is now gone, and I know that it wasn't accidentally thrown in the dumpster - because it's not there. I didn't see her take it. My dilema... in the GM's eyes, this manager can generally do no wrong.

What would you do?
 

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Posted by John Carpenter (Member # 1488) on 01-09-2004, 09:10 AM:
 
sorry about your "loss" but theres not much you can do... except look for it on ebay
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-09-2004, 09:43 AM:
 
People will steal anything to give to someone for sex in return. My guess is that she got a little too "comfortable" being the promotions manager and decided to give herself a bonus, knowing that there was no way you could proove it.

Then again, for highly sought-after stuff like that, you should keep it locked in the office. Star Wars, LOTR, Spiderman... any stuff that's bound to grow legs when unattended.

I'll admit, when I was a promotions manager I would snag posters that we had doubles of, but NEVER before a film's release. It would piss me off when the other managers would ransack the poster storage room, then we had nothing to display when the movie actually got there.

You could say something subtle like, "Oh, can you bring that back when you're done with it?" No accusations, but just rhetorical questions to see if she slips up. If she says she didn't take it, just say, "Oh, someone said that someone wanted to borrow it for a party or something. I thought it was you since you like that stuff..." Watch for body language, too. Talk about the banner profusely around her...

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 01-09-2004, 12:07 PM:
 
The room that holds our posters and banners has a sign on it:

"Protected by Guard Dogs"

There are only two keys to it. I have one and one of my assistants. If something goes missing - I know where to look.


 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-09-2004, 12:08 PM:
 
I second John: Start looking on Ebay and see if someone in your area puts a Spiderman II banner up for sale. I know of at least two instances of 'high-dollar-potential' advertising materials (a Phantom Menace banner and a LOTR:FOTR multi-poster set) that 'disappeared' from theatres and later ended up fetching several hundred bucks on Ebay.

Another place to look would be on said suspect's wall at home, but that may be difficult to pull off.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-09-2004, 12:34 PM:
 
After a couple of those episodes, we just stopped letting the staff go through the promotional materials altogether. Too bad... but I figure the incidental damage caused by not having those materials in the lobby cost me a lot more than giving that stuff away... so for now, we don't do it.

...of course, I now have a rather substantial collection of poster tubes!
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-09-2004, 02:42 PM:
 
Do you have some sort of log system to keep track of incoming promotional materials? For some theatres its a waste of time-we used to keep an excel file with our current poster inventory but it was too much of a hassle to keep current. Sounds like it might be a good idea to pitch the idea to your GM though. When pitching it don't suggest preventing thievery as the reason but instead frame the proposal as a way of knowing what promotional materials you have to order on your own and what has been automaticaly sent already.
 

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Posted by Beth Smith (Member # 1505) on 01-09-2004, 05:04 PM:
 
If she is the "promotions manager" then that banner is ultimately her responsibility. She ought to have some answers as to why something she should be keeping track of went missing. I would be asking her that question. She must not being doing that great of a job.

As for your GM..I don't know what to tell you. As a GM I would want to know if something like that went missing and you can bet she wouldn't be the promotions manager if she let something like that go missing.
 

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Posted by Jason Burroughs (Member # 68) on 01-09-2004, 05:37 PM:
 
Something like that, I would deffinatly make sure that the GM knew was missing. However tread carefully when possibly pointing any fingers. Considering you don't have any concrete proof that she took the banner, its next to impossible to say who took it.

While it is aggrevating that pomotional materials go missing, its not the end of the world.
 

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Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 01-09-2004, 10:15 PM:
 
Did any of you guys ever think that maybe, juts maybe, some thieving ass patron swiped it? Or did I not see something about it being taken from a secure room?

I've had and caught many a person trying to steal banners, standees, posters, & anything else we leave unattended for more than a few seconds! What a bunch of theiving bastards they can be!

At any rate, it is still [ her responsibilty to keep track of it. In doing so, she should be able to at least determine what shift or night it came up missing.

My nickel...
 

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Posted by R. Andrew Diercks (Member # 1725) on 01-09-2004, 11:18 PM:
 
As to the subject at hand, if the GM is covering up for a thief and you can gain any proof of this drop a line to the DM. I couldn't respect a GM that would allow this to occur (if he/she knew about it). If the GM isn't aware of this it should be taken care of. Others may follow suit if word gets out that there weren't any repercussions.

Not to change the subject, but what do all of you do with promotional materials when your run is complete? Does anyone ever give anything to the public as a PR thing? Just curious. Also has anyone heard of a studio taking any action against those that sell these items? If you feel this should warrant a thread, please do so.
 

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Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 01-10-2004, 01:35 AM:
 
The only other thing you can do is to come to work in a Spiderman costume and walk around in it all day. That will also alert people to the fact that the next Spiderman movie is coming.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-10-2004, 01:32 PM:
 
Thanks for all the replies, folks. I agree it's not the end of the world, but crap like this goes on all the time at this theater - which is a real shame.
 

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Posted by Matthew Bailey (Member # 601) on 01-10-2004, 07:44 PM:
 
That same thing happened with a Lilo & Stitch poster. No problem,just print a blowup of one from the net & tape the pages together.
 

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Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 01-11-2004, 03:57 AM:
 
Do you know how utterly hideous and retarded that would look, Matthew?
 

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Posted by Dan Lyons (Member # 1454) on 01-11-2004, 04:09 AM:
 

quote:

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People will steal anything to give to someone for sex in return.

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Thomas, I love that line!!!!!!!!!!!

Danny
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 01-11-2004, 08:37 AM:
 
The line I love is:

"You can sell anything on God's green earth if a customer believes it's stolen."
- George C. Scott, in THE FLIM-FLAM MAN (1967)

...and I always love Matthew Bailey's non sequiturs!
 

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Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 01-14-2004, 05:25 PM:
 
Stuff like this got so bad at my theater that we had to lock the high risk stuff(ie LOTR) up in the safe....it truly is sad what people will do...by the way...does anyone know if it is actually "legal" to sell that stuff on e-bay. I just scare my staff by telling them that it's a major felony...plus i don't know what you all do with your posters or if you have to send them to sub-run theaters...but we give some out as incentives and as prizes for promo contests
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-14-2004, 09:55 PM:
 

quote:

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does anyone know if it is actually "legal" to sell that stuff [promotional materials] on e-bay.

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Yes, it is perfectly legal.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 01-15-2004, 06:18 AM:
 
As far as selling items on E-Bay, I have heard that some movie companies go on E-bay and do everything they can to track down the person selling the items and where they got them from. I don't think its legal to sell them, that is why they are all marked "For Promotional Use Only".
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 01-15-2004, 02:10 PM:
 
That's news to me. Then could you explain how the 'poster stores' in some malls (usually located within spitting range of a mall theatre, so its really obvious where they get their 'current' posters) are allowed to operate selling current (to include titles that haven't been released yet) and vintage posters, press kits, banners, t-shirts, etc? I know that press kits aren't usually an item that the studios license for retail sale. If the studios cared that much such stores would be closed down pronto.

The only time any studios try to interrupt Ebay auctions is when 35mm features and trailers are sold there, and even that happens irregularly at best.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-15-2004, 02:21 PM:
 
Well I know the Suncoast in the mall we operate in recieves no posters from us, what they sell they acquire on their own.

Just because the studios don't go after people selling posters on ebay doesn't make it legal. As far as I know posters remain the property of the film company and are provided to theatres for promotional use only, to be destroyed at the end of their use (it goes without saying no one does this).

At best the posters would be owned by the theatre chain, not the employees selling them. Selling things you don't own isn't legal.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 01-15-2004, 02:27 PM:
 
There are definitely some situations in which posters can be legally sold. For example, I once ordered a poster for the 1997 reissue of "The Graduate" directly from Strand Releasing. They sold it to me for $15 and it is now mine. There is no reason why I cannot legally sell it on ebay or elsewhere. Also, my college's film club regularly received large quantities of posters from Swank which they explicitly encouraged us to sell or give away. Again, perfectly legal. This was in the late '90s; I assume that they still do this.

Whether legal or not (I don't know), it seems that no one except maybe George Lucas and the Disney lawyers cares about posters, banners, presskits, etc. that might be sold on Ebay, in poster shops, etc., after the initial release date of the film which they are promoting.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-15-2004, 02:40 PM:
 
Following Scott's example, does anyone know if theater chains pay large sums of money to the studios to provide them with promotional materials? If so, then I suppose they belong to the theater when they show up. If not, then since they say "Property of <insert studio name here>" then ...? I don't know who they belong to.

Some studios probably encourage giving posters away to customers in conjunction with promotions as prizes and what not, but I imagine they frown on employees just taking them out of theater without so much as hanging them up to promote the film before it's released.
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 01-15-2004, 02:50 PM:
 
I have seen some posters for Disney movies that have serial numbers on them.

Either those numbers are used for "tracking" purposes or Disney knows the posters are being traded and serializes them for collecting purposes... No?
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-15-2004, 02:52 PM:
 
Scott: The difference between your example and people grabbing posters out of their theatres storage room and selling them ebay is that in both your examples the films legal distributor either sold you the poster, thus transfering ownership to you, or gave you permission to sell it and keep the proceeds. This is not the case with posters sent to first run theatres by distributors for promotional use.

Mark: First run theatres do not pay a dime for any of the promotional materials they get. If they did then they could (and likely would) resell them. The most any theatre pays for is shipping, usually not even that.

EDIT
I just want to make clear that when I say selling 'posters' is illegal I mean selling posters that are provided free of charge to first run theatres for promotional use is illegal. Neither the employees who put them in poster cases or the theatres they work for own them. It is not legal to sell something you don't own.

As part of their merchandising efforts distributors sell posters and other promotional items to retailers who in turn resell them. This is completely different from the above situation.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 01-16-2004, 11:06 AM:
 
ARENT THE POSTERS THAT SELL IN STORES LIKE SUNCOAST DIFFERENT VERSIONS AND SIZES THAN THE ONES PROVIDED TO THE THEATERS? I KNOW THAT WE WERE GOING TO TRY AND SETUP A SECTION IN OUR LOBBY WHERE WE COULD SELL THE POSTERS AND STANDEES AND OTHER VARIOUS ITEMS, BUT WE WERE TOLD THAT WE WERE UNABLE TO DO SO. I HAVE HEARD OF THEATERS IN JAPAN THAT HAVE VENDING MACHINES THAT SELL T-SHIRTS THAT ARE SHRUNKEN LIKE THE ONES FOR "ONCE UPON A TIME IN MEXICO", BUT I THINK THOSE ARE DIFFERENT THAN THE PROMO ONES TOO.
 

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Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 01-16-2004, 11:49 AM:
 
During the days of National Screen Service Corporation. Which handled posters and trailers for the major studios. They had this printed at the bottom of their poster material.
Property of National Screen Service Corporation Licenced for use only in connection with the exhibition of this picture at the theatre licensing this material. Licensee agrees not to trade, sell or give it away, or permit others to use it, nor shall licensee be entitled to a credit upon return of this material. This material either must be returned or destroyed immediately after use.

Theatres would pay a licensing fee to NSS to use the materials in their theatres. During the early 80's, one sheets from NSS were around $3-4 dollars and trailers were $5-10.
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 01-16-2004, 03:46 PM:
 
Jeremy, why are you yelling?
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 01-17-2004, 12:35 AM:
 
Sorry, I realized after I posted it that it was in all caps, don't worry it won't happen again. I don't really consider it yelling, just cuz its in all caps, but I take into consideration other peoples opinions, so I usually dont do that, but oops.
 

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Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 01-17-2004, 01:52 AM:
 
Jeremy -

Suncoast sells the 27" by 40" posters that we have at our theatres. The only usual difference is the back of the poster. The ones we receive are usually double-sided and theirs are not. Although I have noticed as of late -that they have been selling double sided ones.

Most of the time -the film companies only lose it when the products being sold are for a big film that has not come out yet. You can pretty much buy anything legally - it is the sellers that can be busted. (In some states that have weird laws where you can own a certain weapon -but you cannot sell it or you can have an copy of something -but when you go to sell it -that is when the law is broken.)

The film companies should all follow New Line's example and sell thier stuff on thier web site and charge big bucks -because people will pay it.
 

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Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 01-17-2004, 10:57 AM:
 
It's not illegal unless there's a law that says it is. If you want to get into technicalities that "the studio is only lending the poster to the theater" or "the poster remains property of the studio therefore you are selling stolen property" then you would have to present all the evidence and have a judge decide. Problem is, no one would ever take on a court case over a poster, which is why you've never heard of someone being convicted for it.

Also, if the studio requests that the theater "destroy" the poster, by that clause in the "contract" between the studio and the theater, they are implying that after a given period of time they relinquish their ownership rights of the poster and it becomes "abandoned property." Should the theater NOT physically destroy the poster and just pile them in the dumpster or even place them in a trash can by the exit door, you're free to take not only the posters, but the leftover popcorn and soda cups in there, too. The Supreme Court ruled that garbage is public domain, and if someone wants to buy the garbage you found, then so be it!

Those little notices printed all over the posters now are just as effective as printing CRAP code all over the print. If someone really wants it, they'll get it. Maybe if they wanted posters back so badly, they should include prepaid return labels with them like they USED to do with trailers...

=TMP=
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-17-2004, 12:46 PM:
 

quote:

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First run theatres do not pay a dime for any of the promotional materials they get.

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quote:

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Additionally, almost all poster stores sell reprinted posters, not original theatrical posters.

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The ones I have been to sell the real deal, no reprints (referring to 'current' posters, the 'vintage' ones are usually reprints or foreign release posters)

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 01-18-2004, 12:57 AM:
 
The company I work for has instructed us to only order materials through the advertising department. If we order them on our own from TES/studios/whoever we get charged for them; this is apparantly not the case if the advertising department handles this stuff.

Will most people be able to get away with selling a poster or two on ebay? Certainly, there is no way to know if the poster came from a theatre or from a poster store just by looking at the auction and therefore the studios are going to largely ignore it. Doesn't mean its 'legal'.

Here's a thought, if it was 100% legal to sell promotional material why the hell don't theatre chains do it? Seems to me they could make a shitload of money selling off all the crap that gets automaticaly shipped to their theatres. Tons of posters never even get displayed.

In the end it doesn't seem very ethical to be selling promotional materials for personal profit. If one is going to sell posters and banners why not donate the proceeds to charity (CMN, United Way, whatever).
 

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Posted by Chris Medley (Member # 2145) on 01-18-2004, 09:11 AM:
 
I have also noticed a couple of double-sided sets ending up in places like suncoast. But if I remember correctly on Stars Wars, Lucas Films was so anal that they wanted all their trailers returned or we could run the risk of not getting the next installment of the series...I know not all of them were sent back and we didn't get any theaters from Lucas Films.. so I guess it was just a scare tactic. Does anyone remember the Spiderman I poster and trailer were it showed Spiderman on the Twin Towers and the studio ordered a removal of all that and they sent out re-prints of the one-sheets and edited trailers? Did you guys have problems with those "going missing"?
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 01-18-2004, 09:55 PM:
 
If the studio sends something to the theater for you to use to promote their upcoming film, and you just take it home with you without ever thinking twice about it, then in my opinion, that's wrong. In this case, the movie is something like six months out - even more reason to hold onto it for a while and use it. But if the studio tells you to get rid of it early, like they did with the Spiderman stuff, then in my opinion, it should be fair game, because you have no use for it in the theater anyway.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 01-18-2004, 10:50 PM:
 
Regarding the Spider-Man/Twin Towers posters and trailers, I remember the Sony rep clearly saying (at the Great States convention): "We don't want'em back...just get'em down and get rid of them."

He never specified how to get rid of them though!
 

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