This is topic Dealing with co-workers that hate you in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-15-2004, 04:04 PM:
 
Hello everyone,

I have a short post to make. Currently, I have a real awesome job, but a few of my friends from work have told me stories about what other co-workers say behind my back. These friends are people I've been working with only since May. They say real rude remarks that I don't want to get into and comment about my entire overall performance. When I get into work and they're scheduled, they fake being kind to me or are rude and really don't answer my questions.

Is there anything I can personnally do to make the rest of my summer enjoyable? How did you deal with issues like this when you were younger?
 

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Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 08-15-2004, 05:00 PM:
 
first off....where do they work/where do you work? If they work on the floor, and you work in the booth...then it's not too hard to just stay away.

As for them saying shit behind your back you can either kill them with kindness or just keep from them. I had a problem with a co-worker and I just confronted him. How high are you on the "food chain" at the theatre? That helps sometimes too
 

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Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 08-15-2004, 05:53 PM:
 
Andrew--

It's obvious you are a fairly new employe there that would put
you somewhere near the bottom of the "peckng order", so, grit
your teeth and bare with it. Always try to be on the offensive
rather than the defensive and I feel people will have a hard
time cracking down that steel wall. In other words, "Keep The
Mouth Zipped" It worked for me for 60 years!
fjn
Local 294 Ret.
 

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Posted by Aaron Sisemore (Member # 145) on 08-15-2004, 06:38 PM:
 
Without reopening any old wounds from the past here at F-T, are you doing anything similar to what you had done to people here on F-T to people there at your theatre? Sure way to make everyone not wanna like you anymore.

-Aaron
 

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Posted by Rachel Gilardi (Member # 1016) on 08-15-2004, 09:30 PM:
 
Aaron!

Anyway,

Andrew I'd just grin and bear it, you're young, it happens. Try not to talk to those people unless it involves work, it sucks but it happens to everyone - REALLY!

If it gets to the point where it is interfering with your work why don't you try talking to a supervisor or your manager? Then again, that can make things better but it can also make things worse depending on your work environment.
 

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Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 08-16-2004, 01:55 AM:
 
Andrew:

Having read your many posts, it certainly is apparent that you love this business and would like to make a career in it if possible. Usually when someone likes what he/she does, and especially when you want to advance in that field, you will work harder then those who do it just for a paycheck. Sometimes in doing that you will alienate yourself from those who don't really give a crap about their job. They look at you as an ass kisser and suckup to your superiors. If you truly want to advance in this business, don't allow those people to stand in your way. Just do the very best job you are capable of doing. You only have to impress your boss, not your co-workers. If you do indeed do an excellent job, you will leave them behind shortly anyway. You may even become their boss. I doubt that they would stick around.

I experienced the same thing once when I was young. I was working as an usher at a large downtown movie palace. I loved my job and that theatre. The manager of another movie palace up the street would often stop in to see the manager of the theatre where I worked, and obviously noticed my performance. He approached me and convinced me to come and work at his theatre.

The only reason I switched theatres was because I saw it as an opportunity to possibly advance to a higher position. I performed my duties at the new theatre the same as at the old one. I knew what to do, and I did it. No one had to tell me what to do as I had already been trained at the first theatre. One day during a matinee one of the other ushers (about 6 inches taller then me)cornered me in the rear of the auditorium, and told me that I was making the rest of the staff look bad, and that I should back off or hit the road. I know that I was trembling on the inside, but I didn't let him see that on the outside. I told him that it wasn't me that was making them look bad, but rather they... themselves, and that they could easily solve that problem by doing what was expected of them. About a week or so later when he saw that I wasn't about to change... he quit. I never had a problem with the rest of the staff after that. The manager later told me that after "Gary" left, that the rest of the staff really seemed to shape up.

Within five years of that incident, I owned the first theatre, and the manager there who had given me my first job in a theatre worked for me. By that time, the manager of the 2nd theatre, who hired me away from the first, was managing one of my theatres in another town. About ten years later I aquired the 2nd theatre as well.

Well Andrew, as you can see, you never know what the future will hold, but you can have a lot do do with the outcome of your future. As far as your co-workers... be friendly to them, be helpful, but don't belittle them or boss them around if they aren't doing their job. Remember, if they don't do their job well, all they are doing is making you look even better if you're doing yours well, and that will be noticed... by those that count.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 08-16-2004, 06:16 AM:
 
I think Dean said it best

quote: Dean Kollet

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As for them saying shit behind your back you can either kill them

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Just kidding Andrew!! Really, all you can do is ignore them or be really nice to them. It usually pisses people off the most when they dont like you, and you are extremely nice to them. I wouldnt let it bother me too much if I were you. Its happened to everybody, you just happen to find out about it.
 

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Posted by Bruce McGee (Member # 131) on 08-16-2004, 07:54 AM:
 
We fired a kid last week. We all thought that we were all getting along really well. The kid had picked up the way we work really fast, and was doing a good job. Suddenly he started laying out of work and when he was there, he was a turd. After the firing, we found that he was telling customers, whoever would listen, that we were all a bunch of bastards, jerks, etc. This started the first day he was not being trained. Wow.

PS: this is NOT a theatre-related job.

What an asshole. He's 24, and has a long way to go before retirement, and he is not cute enough to be kept by someone.
 

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Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-16-2004, 02:52 PM:
 
Thanks for the advice.

This is a seasonal job from May-September. I just realized that we're only gonna be open 3.5 more weeks, but I do want to try to make my life a little less miserable, especially if I'm back next year.

I've actually been pretty quiet. I'm going to try the "extremely nice" thing, as well as something else I've kind of noticed: When you ask people a lot of questions about them, and you don't really talk abotu yourself, people just seem to think "Hey they're nice", so I'm gonna try that too.

Hopefully I can grow up the corporate ladder too... I'm the only one who up-sells, or suggests cheese on fries and hot dogs!!
 

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Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 08-16-2004, 05:05 PM:
 
You see there is your problem. You are THE ONLY ONE who upsells. Most people hate upselling, most people hate bieng upsold. It's your job and you do it well, so people don't hold it against you, but when you do your job well, and others are there just for the job, and especially since you are the new guy, you are going to get ragged upon by coworkers. Just part of the game. Just play your cards right and do your job well. If the theater has any value at all the management will see it.

As for upselling, the title of my first book is called "DON'T TELL ME WHAT I WANT! 10 reasons that suggestive selling doesn't work and other business myths debunked"

It isn't finished yet, but plan to have the first copy to my editors for review by next february. Did you know that it takes like FOREVER to write a book? DAMN.

Ok I am off subject. Keep up the hard work, you will make it if you do that.

Ciao

Dave
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 08-16-2004, 05:56 PM:
 
Editors? As in you already have a publisher? If you don't, by the time you get one it'll seem like it took no time at all to write the book itself!
 

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Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 08-16-2004, 09:09 PM:
 
Andrew, May I suggest glancing at my threads in the Ground Level regarding something very similar. I also was made fun of and abused because I cared about my work and it wasn't just a job for me, It was my living...meaning my only job. I cared about what I did and actually took the time to learn about how everything worked. I was called "obsessive", and that the booth and projectors were my "girlfriend". Check out a few answers there. I don't remember what they are called, but they should be on the 2nd or 3rd page of the Ground Level.
 

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Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 08-17-2004, 05:47 PM:
 
Andrew:

Do yourself a favor. Listen to Richard Wolfe. Just read his post over and over again.
 

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Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 08-17-2004, 06:39 PM:
 

quote: Bruce McGee

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...and he is not cute enough to be kept by someone.

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quote: John T. Hendrickson, Jr

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Do yourself a favor. Listen to Richard Wolfe. Just read his post over and over again.

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Way tooooo long to read.

I think Floyd and Aaron said it best.

Keep in mind (from my personal experience), the higher up you are in the food-chain "pecking order", the more likely you're going to have those that are jealous and want to take you down. It's just part of human nature.

No matter how frustrating and depressing, don't let it get to you... Be you're own person! ALWAYS do your best!

>>> Phil
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-17-2004, 08:02 PM:
 
Ya know, you may not believe it, but A LOT of people don't like me. In fact most of the people that I work with hate me. But you know , I am not there to make friends. I am there to make money and do a good job. My best advice is to just get used to it, everywhere you go people will not like you for whatever reason.

Other than that you really have two choices, if you dont want them to like you then just dont say anything about it and just brush it off like you don't care.

If you want them to like you then jsut start saying hi in the halls and try to make small talk. Just remember that some people do tend to act one way in front of you and another behind your back, this is just the way they are.
 

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Posted by Greg Routenburg (Member # 1742) on 08-17-2004, 08:24 PM:
 
There's a very diverse social structure in most movie theatres. I was in your situation once and I understand how frustrating it can be to have someone treat you totally different behind your back then in person. I found that I could still enjoy my job by getting along with everyone else and simply being civil with the person(s) in question. You don't have to be everyone's friend but when everyone else see's that you're a cool guy then the other guy will be the one who's being alienated.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-17-2004, 08:28 PM:
 
one more thing, whatever you do, dont be fake about anything. You will be hated even more for being fake. Either they like you or they dont, whopee doo
 

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Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 08-17-2004, 09:06 PM:
 
I'm sure there are SOME people where you work whom you get along with! No?

For me, the answer is simple. Talk to the people you like and don't talk to the people you don't like.

Be civil. Say, "Hello" and "Goodbye". Answer questions politely. Use "Please" and "Thank you" as much as possible without sounding dorky.

I think the greatest myth in society is that you somehow MUST get along with everybody. I think it's a bunch of horse shit! Anybody who can't say they have at least one enemy in this world is a liar!

It's only human nature that there will be some people that like you and some that don't. There will be some people you like and some that you don't like. This is life. People who understand this and can get past it are the ones who succeed. The ones who brood about their interpersonal problems and hold grudges, etc. are the ones who will fail in life.

You seem to be the one who is growing up. The others seem to be the ones who are acting childish.

As long as you are polite and act civilly towards everybody... even if you don't like them... you should be OK.

Exception: If somebody is trying to harm you. (I mean hurt you PHYSICALLY.) Politeless and courtessey go out the window. You have the right to defend yourself by any means necessary. This is, of course, a last resort but it needs to be said.
 

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Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 08-18-2004, 04:00 AM:
 
The best thing is that you're already on the right track of trying to figure it out.

There are a number of things going on: not the least is that you've been exposed to a smaller variety of social structures, you're hitting new ones & one that is in particular hostile, & you have fewer experiential examples like others may have to match it to or have developed strategies for analyzing new ones. It's not a matter of being 'young', but of exposure, experience, & collection of analytical & working 'tools' for the job.

In almost anything that has to do with development, whether its one person's psychology or an independent social structure, looking for a military manual or cookbook "answer" to problem 14a is not going to work. The best term I can give people to make them understand is that something that does something is a machine, & machines that don't all just come straight from one manufacturer & are installed & upgraded by only one tech do not in any way look the same, have the same design, or work the same way.

It's like opening up a rack in some new location. It's rarely & wonderfully straightforward & well done, usually it's "Oh my god, what the hell is all this?" Then you have to start tracing lines, thinking back along what was done (Okay, they needed to add this & they ran this stupid wire up to here), & why (Here's where they got a crummy tech who would or could only jack stuff together one way), etc. Even in a rack there's a lot of psychology. And you can't just start tossing out things you think are unimportant, you find that over time for weird, emergency, or stupid reasons strange things have happened, like
a picee of automation is robbing power from the exciter supply, etc. The back of a rack is usually very much a social situation.

There was a study by a woman sociologist (forgot her name, I'm not going to go digging, I intensely envy Ken Layton's facility & recall of part numbers) who decided to do a study of why playground behavior of boys was more hostile than girls (pushing, hitting, etc.) She made a list of social situations which elicited the behavior, then studied the responses of groups of girls & boys. She was amazed to find that girls were just as hostile, even more frequently, but their responses were not physical, but social sabotage (some complex & requiring lots of planning!) against someone like spreading rumors, getting others to join in a campaign of insults & belittlement, trying to manipulate others to isolate them socially, stealing cherished belongings & boyfriends, etc. The term for it is Social Hostility, & that's what you're facing. Like all statistical spreads, it wasn't just girls doing it, but some boys, but at the age of the playground study, the 'subjects' in the male group had more access to physical violence by overlooking, gender expectations, no matter how they'd developed that tactic (finding it themselves, learning it from other adults, etc.)

After this, more folks started looking at similar situations, & it plainly was what a lot of dysfunctional adult structures & activities were. Physical retalitation is suppressed for adult society, so those who developed socially hostile behaviors, male or female, are the ones operating in mostly-non-incarcerated society.

The further studies of dysfunctionallly socially hostile girl groups matched up schematically with studies of poor-performing families & corporate social groups. For girls, they could be traced back to one or more 'queen bee' types, & others which could used to support them through their inexperience in social structures. In families, abusive parents & children (who are for all practical purposes owned by parents) who must adapt & mollify the behavior somehow for reasons of physical or psycological survival), in corporate environment, mainly by threat of financial or career ruin & a perceived need by some with inexperienced or otherwise rather spongy personality types propping their self-image up by adapting to the inexperienced 'this must be how thw world works' viewpoint.

In common also is that the social hostility proceeds from mostly one direction, & must be supported. There was a book about "Queen Bee" girls (you can look at it as an easy lab slide slice for the other similar structures) that described how these individuals, were the earliest in the structure to learn socially hostile behaviors & use them to prop up their own self-esteem. Always they themselves are motivated by fear, having been giving the impression by parents, other people, images in the media, etc., that they are lacking & deficient in some way. They then consolidate in a social situation through a means like prior residence, 'political power' (dad owns the pool people want to swim in, etc.) more hostility skills, and so forth an essentially narcissistic 'machine' to prop up their ego. They can only function with 'secondaries' that can be manipulated through fear also, fear of being excluded from a group, insulted as 'stupid' or not cool, exclusion from desirable activities, etc., who have not really completely formed an independent self-image.

The main thing is it's motivated by fear. The behavior is distinct & hostile, (previously would have been simplistically called 'anti-social'), doesn't make a lot of sense, except to briefly mollify someone's fear. It's a funny noise you hear, listen for it, find out what's causing it, it's the usual thing coming from somewhere.

These structures usually are of limited 'use', except as initiations of other structures after the central, fear-driven, narcissistic (or hoping-to-be-seen as narcissistic, in someone fear driven) person's role diminishes. They exist mostly to prop up one person, when that person's utility is diminished, whatever else the structure has independently spawned through the others proceeds, very much to a degree of how much power the original person held (like daddy owns the pool). A lot of organizations fall down because of this: the structure created could not be independent of the central person due to resources.

There's a thing called "Social Identification Theory" which describes how some people form their idea of who they themselves are through the social groups they belong to. People do. But it is *developmental*, for less experienced folks the self-image can be more directly tied to the group they want and/or do belong to (even into the late 20s); as people get older, they belong & have belonged to more & different social groups, so their self image is not so much directly tied to a particular group they belong to. They just see themselves as having some things in common with some members of those groups, as they analyze & become more familiar with the different structures & individuals in them. You have very little chance of manipulating John Pytlak, Gordon McLeod, Bob Maar, Steve Guttag or many others by social hostility. It won't work now. You can disagree with them, & present points for consideration. About the only common thing you can manipulate them through is direct access to their bank accounts. And after the immediate laugh over a joke, it's analyzed, the impracticality of it is recognized, & they're not even worried about that.

Developmentally, you're already at least 300 yards in front of those people at the new place. Your reliance on social groups for personal identification is already diffusing because you belong to a few already - home, friendships, and even more advanced experience with other groups from participating here, you've seen differentiations of personality & behaviors in this group. What you're getting perplexed about is the dysfunctional operation of *that* group. You're picking up a funny noise, you want to know what's causing it. This also means, independent of that group, you've got to get more information analytically. This isn't a personality or maturity points thing people get to wear like a badge, it's every day stuff. Every tech walks into a booth that's a technical morass with the humility of knowing that it's just going to be sorted out, but with the confidence that you can grind it out if you don't get paralyzed with aggravation & remain analytical, sometimes drawing on outside resources, etc.

So there's a good point to bring up something else that's a little outside. It's your life. You already do what's called risk/benefit analysis, everyone does, from the inception of any intellectual capacity. Do I want to throw a brick at the 1/2 ton behive for the exhiliration of seeing what happens, or just enjoy reading about it? Do you really want to be there? Are things going to get better? Everyone's gone into a social culture at some business somewhere that was so screwed up (incompetents running stuff, managers keeping them on because they are deferential, incompetents enabling it because they think they must adapt their personalities for their own ego preservation of holding a job, due to self-esteem issues, etc.) Some places are just so screwed up that, for the cost, nothing can be done, whether the cost is time, money, or aggravation. You've got to make that choice. Enjoy needlepoint & making choir robes? Others likely share that enjoyment others, but joining the Klan will probably not be very rewarding as an avenue to meeting others with that shared interest. Risk/benefit analysis is what everybody calls it; I think its an inefficient phrase, & since everyone plays poker, I think its best thought of as Stakes/Payoff. How much are you gonna put down, how much are you likely to win or lose, and most importantly, what are the odds?

When you're dealing with these folks, you've unfortunately got to be technical in the preparation of your response since it's got to be designed. Folks here will talk about the need to tell someone to get their head out of their ass, but saying that is not practical. That's simple causal troubleshooting & very useful & often accurate, it's not effective in fixing the mechanism. They will construct a response which can solve the problem for *that* funky machine's breakdown. Some people are faster with responses, due to having to be defensive in verbally hostile families, etc., but you don't have to worry about taking longer about figuring out an appropriate response, even if it's after the other person has left. I know of a socially hostile radio owner/manager who's always been problematic; many engineers have left when they've had enough. As he relied more on narcissistic, ego propping behaviors like social hostility enabled by power differential, he has become just nuts in the things he asks for, attributes blame for, etc. His present engineer is an excellent engineer, but personally, he is not Groucho Marx nor has never felt he should be, that's not him. The manager hates him; nobody else will stay on, the engineer's making good money. It's lovely the way it's driving manager nuts: "I can't stand (the engineer)! Every time I say something to him, he just looks at me like I'm crazy!" Which is basically what's happening: if the engineer was trying to look at him like he was crazy, the manager would pick up on that through recognition of one of his own socially hostile behaviors, but the engineer is honestly just looking at him & in his own personality recognizing something that's weird, shifting into his analytical mode, & wondering "what in the world is this? What can this be coming from?"

Since this is new, there's some basic stuff told people who find themselves without experience in socially hostile situations at
http://psychologytoday.psychtests.com/articles/mentalhealth/thinking_rel.html#hostile

That's bottom-level happy stuff, you likely don't have any problem with that. You're probably a little more advanced, to the point of, as you're doing now, analysis. One thing often told people who are vexed trying to figure out in socially hostile situations is to 'beware of mind reading', i.e., if someone says to you that your shoe is untied, don't reflexively read into it that they're doing it to get your goat. That's true to a base-level point, but people who *always* react that way are just doing the analysis that *everyone* does, but most others have experience *outside* of people who have only said things to be hostile. One or the other can be true: experience, & the speed & facility of analysis that comes with it, makes the difference. Don't stop thinking, don't reject the obvious, especially if the obvious (your shoe is untied) is the only meaning there.

AND ANOTHER THING: Randy quickly picked up on the physical side of things. A socially hostile environment is a *construction*, a mechanism for propping up egos along the line. When it's not working on someone, those people often get EXTREMELY fearful of ego loss of face, social rejection, the subsequent collapse of self-image that's been built only on externals, etc., & will become violent. Somebody screams at you & you say that you'd like more respect, or you just look at them, or you walk away - their brains will blow up. If they hit you: defend yourself if you can, & then call the cops.

Be yourself, as was said, & you'll make friends with the others who may not have staked their own self image on maintaining hostilie structures. Don't associate with the people who are instigating the hostility to prop themselves up. They're motivated by fear from within, not externals. Broke, can't be fixed. Need a new one. Learn to say that, techie boy.
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-18-2004, 09:31 AM:
 
I cannot believe that not one person has suggested murder/suicide.

**(Do I have to add: j/k ?)**
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-18-2004, 06:14 PM:
 
I dont know, it could be in William's post, somewhere...
 

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Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 08-18-2004, 06:18 PM:
 
Hehehehe zactly. Read it and get back to me.

I'm watching the "Making of" for the Officemax Rubberband Man back-to-school commercial.
 

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Posted by Chris Hipp (Member # 1788) on 08-18-2004, 06:37 PM:
 
Sorry Steve, I am reading 1984 right now and I Think I could finish that before his post.
 

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Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 08-19-2004, 01:43 AM:
 
Here's what Microsoft Word AutoSummarize has to say on Williams post. (Just for fun William, I read your post, lots of good info!)

quote: Microsoft Word AutoSummarize

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The term for it is Social Hostility, & that's what you're facing. Physical retalitation is suppressed for adult society, so those who developed socially hostile behaviors, male or female, are the ones operating in mostly-non-incarcerated society.

The further studies of dysfunctionallly socially hostile girl groups matched up schematically with studies of poor-performing families & corporate social groups. There's a thing called "Social Identification Theory" which describes how some people form their idea of who they themselves are through the social groups they belong to. People do. Your reliance on social groups for personal identification is already diffusing because you belong to a few already - home, friendships, and even more advanced experience with other groups from participating here, you've seen differentiations of personality & behaviors in this group. A socially hostile environment is a *construction*, a mechanism for propping up egos along the line. When it's not working on someone, those people often get EXTREMELY fearful of ego loss of face, social rejection, the subsequent collapse of self-image that's been built only on externals, etc., & will become violent. Don't associate with the people who are instigating the hostility to prop themselves up. They're motivated by fear from within, not externals.

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