Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Cellphone jammers to be installed in French cinemas

This is topic Cellphone jammers to be installed in French cinemas in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001278

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-12-2004, 06:44 AM:

[Big Grin]

quote:
French cinemas act to jam mobiles

Mobile phone signals will be jammed in French cinemas and theatres to prevent the devices disturbing the audience. The French government has backed a move to install equipment to block signals in cinemas, concert halls and theatres.

Emergency phone calls and calls outside the performance area will still be permitted, however. Jean Labbe, president of the National Federation of French Cinemas, said the measure followed "a long-standing request" by cinemas.

French industry minister Patrick Devedjian backed the move, supporting a decision by France's Telecommunications Regulation Authority. Mr Labbe told France Info radio that cinemas had invested heavily to improve comfort and "the authorisation of jammers is the cherry on the cake".

Last year, cinema owners in Dublin were told they were breaking the law by installing a mobile phone signal blocker. Ireland's communications regulator told bosses at Ward Anderson - the company that owns the Savoy cinema - they would be fined up to 25,000 euros (£17,200) if they did not remove the blocking device. Ward Anderson, which owns 200 of Ireland's cinemas, installed the signal blocker after the disruption caused by people talking or receiving text messages became a "problem".

Last month, actor Kevin Spacey declared London's Old Vic theatre a "phone-free zone" during his tenure as its artistic director. "We certainly don't want them ringing and people ignoring them pretending that it's not theirs," he said. "My feeling is if people don't know how to behave they shouldn't come."

Link.

I don't understand how 'emergency calls will still be permitted' though. Presumably the jammers just block all signals in the GSM band. Maybe they're clever enough to detect when someone is making a 999 call and let that through.

Here is a more detailed article (in French), with technical information about how the jammers work, info on how their use has been permitted under French law and quotes from an interview with Olivier Snanoudj, Director-General of the Fédération nationale des cinémas français, in which he expresses misgivings about being forced into installing jammers, but feels that his members have no other choice. There's no mention of how they'd let emergency calls through.

I wish our government would do likewise and let us jam the f-----g things.

Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 10-12-2004, 11:03 AM:

Bring 'em on!!

Cell phones should also be jammed on public transportation rail subways and busses...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-12-2004, 11:35 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
I don't understand how 'emergency calls will still be permitted' though.

Leo, read the whole sentence in the article. It says emergency calls will be permitted outside the performance area.

I hope this spreads worldwide immediately!

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-12-2004, 12:08 PM:

how exactly do they "block" these signals? If it's just insulating a theatre so that signals won't go through the walls or something that's ok. But if they are using a jammer or something electronic...sounds kinda shady to me. Also, why no cell phones in the subway and bus?

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 10-12-2004, 12:28 PM:

All you have to do is transmit a carrier on the same frequencies. Make it strong enough that it, and not outside signals, capture the cell phones' receivers. Modulate it with a looped digitized junk bitstream and it will mask outside carriers and their sidebands.

I'm all for banning the damn things on buses and subways too. Here, cells are banned on public transportation, along with anything else that makes noise like radios, music players or computer games. Headsets are fine as long as neighboring passengers can't hear them. Most cell users seem to be incredibly blind to just how annoying their usually loud one-sided conversations are. That's what text messaging is for. If people don't want to behave in public places I'm all for imposing a standard on them.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-12-2004, 12:34 PM:

Mike: it actually says 'emergency calls and outside the performance area', which I took to mean that their system would not block 999/911 calls inside the cinema. But I'm sure you're right and the journalist actually means that the jammers won't affect anywhere outside the actual auditorium.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-12-2004, 07:21 PM:

I read it the same way Leo did.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-12-2004, 10:31 PM:

I kinda like the idea of the personal jammers that look like cell phones and work for up to a fifty meter radius.

[evil]

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 10-13-2004, 01:40 AM:

A jamming device can allow emergency calls by masquerading as a real cell site and filtering the outbound calls and disallowing all inbound calls. Obviously this is trickier and requires the cooperation of the phone provider (or very devious techniques). But it is possible.

I agree it is unlikely [Wink]

.

--jhawk

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-13-2004, 02:34 AM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
I kinda like the idea of the personal jammers that look like cell phones and work for up to a fifty meter radius.

They do exist - although not (as far as I'm aware) with as big a range as 50 metres. After one nightmare train journey in which several people were repeatedly ignoring the 'no mobiles' rule in the quiet carriage I did some googling. This gizmo would have done the job perfectly. The problem is that using them is illegal in the UK and therefore in order to protect themselves, the people who make these jammers won't sell them here. I did briefly wonder what would happen if I just turned up on their doorstep and offered to pay cash (i.e. no record of the transaction need be created), but can't really be bothered to make a 600-mile round trip just on the offchance.

I can see the need for these things to be regulated - for example, if they were freely available, criminals could use them to prevent people from calling help during an armed robbery. So I wouldn't mind a system whereby you had to get a licence and, as part of that process, state where and justify why you want to install a jammer. But, like the French, I can't see any defensible reason for a continuing outright ban.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 10-13-2004, 09:26 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
A jamming device can allow emergency calls by masquerading as a real cell site and filtering the outbound calls and disallowing all inbound calls. Obviously this is trickier and requires the cooperation of the phone provider (or very devious techniques). But it is possible.

Mobile phones can make emergancy calls using any avaliable (and compatible) network, a 'fake' network could be created that allowed emergancy calls to be made. It would be a lot easier (and cheaper) to provide an 'emergancy' land line phone in each screen.

One issue that would need to be resolved is keeping the jammed area in the required area, there would be problems if other, nearby areas (such as houses, public streets) were also jammed.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-13-2004, 11:34 AM:

Sure: which is why these things probably do need to be regulated in some way. Licensed jammers would also have to emit a signal that could clearly be detected as a jammer signal as distinct from just a weak carrier, so that anyone complaining about a jammer affecting adjoining properties could get it properly investigated and the signal strength turned down if necessary.

Posted by Ramin Hashemi (Member # 2694) on 10-13-2004, 08:17 PM:

Although cell phones in public areas is annoying, they are necessary for in coming emergencies. Banning them might be like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-13-2004, 09:31 PM:

quote"Although cell phones in public areas is annoying, they are necessary for in coming emergencies. Banning them might be like throwing the baby out with the bath water."
Since you are in a movie theatre which is entertainment then one should not be in a situation that doesn't leave those emergancies covered by other means

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-14-2004, 02:46 AM:

Right. I've worked at this theatre for nearly 30 years and I've never had an incident come up where it couldn't be handled via a phone call directly to the theatre. If your life is really THAT important that you can never be out of touch for a second, then you probably shouldn't go to the movies.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-14-2004, 02:54 PM:

So doctors should not be allowed to go to movies? A lot of them that I know are on call 24/7. They also switch the phone to vibrate when in a theatre. What about computer systems engineers who may be on call? What about booth engineers? As a GM, I am on call 24/7, should I not be allowed to go watch a movie during operating hours?

Some people behave badly.. But, that is not a reason to deny those who are following the rules. Honestly, this "solution" is akin to gagging all customers because a couple of them wont shut up. If you have a problem with people on cell phones in your complex, I would suggest monotoring the auditoriums and dealing with the offenders individually.

As for the personal cell phone jammers - such an item would be a violation of FCC regs in the US...

Posted by Kyle McTague (Member # 2673) on 10-14-2004, 03:00 PM:

What about the people who leave their phone on vibrate and then quietly go to the lobby if they get a call that they feel they need to take. does this really bother other moviegoers?? I rarely have problems with people on cell phones but then i'm sure there's a lot of occurances that i'm not aware of

Posted by Ramin Hashemi (Member # 2694) on 10-14-2004, 11:45 PM:

I agree with Kyle and Jim. I try to sit at the end of a row near an exit so I would not bother anyone if I need to take a call. With my phone on vibrate, and stepping out quietly, I hope I am not disturbing anyone.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-14-2004, 11:52 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
So doctors should not be allowed to go to movies?

No, they can go, but they should entend the same courtesy to me that I extend to them. I turn off my phone, and I expect them to do the same. Don't give me this crap about being on call. How did these people get by before there were cell phones and pagers?? Have some freakin courtesy, or yes, stay the hell home.

quote: Jim Ziegler
If you have a problem with people on cell phones in your complex, I would suggest monotoring the auditoriums and dealing with the offenders individually.

How the HELL do you propose a multiplex do that??

quote: Jim Ziegler
Honestly, this "solution" is akin to gagging all customers because a couple of them wont shut up.

Actually, what I do in that situation is crank the movie up so loud that you can't hear the person next to you anymore. No one seems to mind it when I do that. In fact, I've gotten a few "thank you"s.

But come to think of it, you might be on to something...

quote: Jim Ziegler
As for the personal cell phone jammers - such an item would be a violation of FCC regs in the US...

Yeah you're right. I wonder how much of a pain in the ass it will be to catch someone who has one. Especially when it looks like a phone.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-15-2004, 09:55 AM:

Again I guess part of the issue is being on call mens one shouldn't be any place they can't get to the trouble sight imediately without disturbing others taken to an extreme that computor engineer should be able to use his cell phone when visiting a hospital or on an aircraft (now then that could endager lives as they can interferre with other equipment)

It would be interesting to see how it would playout if one clearley posted that the phones would be blocked and as a condition of entrance to the private property you consent to that would stand up

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-15-2004, 01:34 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
No, they can go, but they should entend the same courtesy to me that I extend to them. I turn off my phone, and I expect them to do the same. Don't give me this crap about being on call. How did these people get by before there were cell phones and pagers?? Have some freakin courtesy, or yes, stay the hell home.

My guess would be that medical service was not as good.. Hell, how did these people get by before cars too? It's called progress.. If someone standing up to leave, regardless of the reason (vibrating cell phone or overactive bladder) bothers you so much, perhaps it is YOU that should not be out in public.

quote: Mark J. Marshall
How the HELL do you propose a multiplex do that??

Umm... I don't know... How about scheduling an usher to walk auditoriums.. It's pretty easy to tell if someone is talking on thier phone.

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Yeah you're right. I wonder how much of a pain in the ass it will be to catch someone who has one. Especially when it looks like a phone.

Well, if I ever catch someone using one against me, they will have a pain in the ass when they drop the soap in the county lockup..

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-15-2004, 11:02 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
If someone standing up to leave, regardless of the reason (vibrating cell phone or overactive bladder) bothers you so much, perhaps it is YOU that should not be out in public.

First of all, people who need to get up and quietly excuse themselves to go to the rest room don't bother me because they are usually quiet and discreet about it. I don't even mind them stepping over me if they're quiet about it. People who talk in a movie theater while the movie is running do bother me. And people with cell phones - even when they are on vibrate - ANSWER the phone and start talking while they make their way to the lobby, which is what makes it grossly inconsiderate and obnoxious as hell.

Now if you're suggesting that individuals who receive a call quietly and discreetly get up and excuse themselves, and wait till they get out of earshot of everyone who paid $10 to watch the movie BEFORE they start talking or making noise, then ok. And yes, I admit, that means they will probably have to call the person back because they won't make it to the lobby before the voice mail picks up. Yes, that's called courtesy, and if you suggest people do that, then fine. I'll go along with it. But you know something? That'll never happen.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Umm... I don't know... How about scheduling an usher to walk auditoriums.. It's pretty easy to tell if someone is talking on thier phone.

Oh yeah, that'll work.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Well, if I ever catch someone using one against me, they will have a pain in the ass when they drop the soap in the county lockup..

Good luck triangulating which pocket the signal is coming from in a crowded movie theater.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-15-2004, 11:40 PM:

Doctors could use the old tried and true system: They tell the office or hospital they're going to the movies, then when they get to the theatre they tell the managment they are in auditorium so-and-so, and if a call comes in, the manager gets the doc out of the theatre and to the phone. We have done it this way at this theatre for oh about 25 years (as long as I've been here) and it works fine. Haven't lost anyone yet. We have one local doctor who REFUSES to bring his cell phone to the theatre. His staff knows that and they act accordingly. He hasn't lost anyone by going to the movies yet, either.

If you have management who is too incompetent to quickly take and relay an emergency call, then you have a lot bigger problems than cellphones.

And I agree, if people would behave themselves there would be no problem. If they feel they MUST ANSWER before they get to the lobby, why can't they simply pick up the phone and say "Hold it, I'm at the movies" and then go outside, and THEN start talking. It's these cretins that have to yak all the way out of their row and up the aisle that are the real idiots.

The bottom line is, 99% of cell phone calls are completely unnecessary, and could probably be handled after the show is over with no loss of life.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-16-2004, 04:07 AM:

I thought this counterargument would come up in the context of doctors. I recently had an argument with my uncle - a retired hospital doctor - about this. He believes very strongly that if mobile 'phones had existed during his working life, then between 3 and 5 lives a year would have been saved by being able to contact him when he wasn't within easy reach of a land line. But despite this, I still agree with Mark, Mike and Gordon - that anyone who is in a situation whereby being contactable is that important should not put themselves in a setting where mobile 'phone use is an antisocial nuisance, e.g. a cinema auditorium.

Point taken that using jammers penalises people who are responsible about leaving their mobiles on silent &c. But there are lots of other situations whereby the mindless minority cause such a big problem that people feel it's acceptable to take action which affects everyone. For example, a speed camera will flash someone doing 2mph over the limit as the result of an atypical lapse of concentration, as well as the yob who thinks he's Michael Schumacher. But the argument for putting the cameras up says that this is an acceptable price to pay for the overall safety benefit. Personally, I believe that argument holds good for installing mobile 'phone jammers in cinemas, theatres, libraries, 'quiet carriages' on trains and mobile-free areas of restaurants. There are so many people who just won't respond to the carrot that the stick has now become necessary.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-16-2004, 06:50 AM:

Before cell phone days, doctors on call who came to our cinema would leave their card at the box office and sit in a row where they could easily be found by the staff. I guess people used to do that elsewhere too, and I don't see how that would have worked less effectively than carrying a cell phone. And then they can still carry pagers which probably transmit in a completely different band from the cell phone anyway.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 10-16-2004, 07:04 AM:

What's the difference if they have a pager or cell phone in vibrate and they get up to make a call, or someone comes in and tells them they have a call. To me, someone coming in, finding the Doctor and telling him/her they have a call would be more annoying than just having a cell phone on vibrate.

As far as what did they do before cell phones, yes they informed the theatre...but guess what, things change over time. I'd much rather have a person get up and look like he/she is going to the bathroom, without bothering me, and end up saving someone's life.

Posted by Michael Schaffer (Member # 1204) on 10-16-2004, 05:41 PM:

The difference is that you will very rarely if ever actually see a doctor on call get up and run out of the theatre while "normal" people talk on the unjammed cell phones all the time.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-16-2004, 08:57 PM:

quote:
I'd much rather have a person get up and look like he/she is going to the bathroom, without bothering me,

If they would just DO THAT, then fine. The problem is these self-important yakkers think they own the place and don't know how to be discreet.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-17-2004, 04:09 AM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Now if you're suggesting that individuals who receive a call quietly and discreetly get up and excuse themselves, and wait till they get out of earshot of everyone who paid $10 to watch the movie BEFORE they start talking or making noise, then ok. And yes, I admit, that means they will probably have to call the person back because they won't make it to the lobby before the voice mail picks up. Yes, that's called courtesy, and if you suggest people do that, then fine. I'll go along with it. But you know something? That'll never happen.

Well, personally, when I get a call while watching a movie that looks like one I need to take, I flip the thing open as I am walking out, but I don't talk until I am out of the theatre.. This allows me to not miss the call and not annoy anyone else...

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Oh yeah, that'll work.

Always worked for me..

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-17-2004, 06:17 AM:

So, to summarise, it's perfectly possible to carry around and use one of these things in a way which doesn't piss off others - but virtually no-one can be bothered to do so.

The other thing about doctors is that they are not on call 24/7 (not in Britain, at any rate). Even junior doctors who work silly hours have at least one or two evenings a week when they can leave their 'phones at home and go to the pictures without any problem. Furthermore, when they are on call, they're being paid to be off work but available at short notice (a doctor at a similar stage in his or her career to where I am in mine earns well over double what I do). So I don't really think it's a human rights abuse for cinemas to be off limits on those evenings. If even France, where doctors are treated practically as gods, doesn't have a problem with the jammers, then I say bring 'em on here.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-17-2004, 11:45 AM:

quote: Leo Enticknap
The other thing about doctors is that they are not on call 24/7 (not in Britain, at any rate).

Many are on call in the states.. Here, almost all of them are in private practice, and, especially, depending on their field, could get called at any time (i.e. ob/gyns, heart specialists, trama specialitsts, etc).

Additionally, there are other memebers of society that may need to be gotten ahold of in an emergency or are on call 24/7. People such as police detectives, police command staff, police reservists, volunteer firemen, fire department command staff, fire department reservists, some military personnel, public officials, specialized serch and rescue team members, Civil Air Patrol members, etc...

Just the public saftey advantages of cell phones FAR outweighs the annoyance of their misuse.

Further, just becaause France does something, does not mean we all have to follow... Hell, had we always followed France's lead, the world would be speaking German.. [Smile]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-17-2004, 01:03 PM:

Jim--are you saying that cinemas should not be allowed to jam/block cellular telephone transmission and reception, or that you would not patronize an establishment that did block or jam those signals?

Personally, I'm all in favor of blocking/jamming for restaurants and theatres of all types, provided that it does not cause interference or harm to those who wish to use their phones outside the building. There are too many inconsiderate idiots who let their phones ring (or--worse--answer or make calls) during films. If someone truly _must_ be reachable at all times, then he shouldn't be going to a film (or restaurant or live theatre). From what I've seen, 99% of all cell phone calls made or answers in public places are useless ("where are you? what are you doing? cool! bye") and annoying to those near the phone user.

Posted by Gordon McLeod (Member # 33) on 10-17-2004, 01:15 PM:

"Further, just becaause France does something, does not mean we all have to follow... Hell, had we always followed France's lead, the world would be speaking German"
sounds political common mods [Smile]

lynching time [Smile]

If someone is on call they have chosen that as their lifestyle or occupation and as such are renumerated for that and as such have no right to be causing an annoyance to others. Also by the same logic reversed a building should have to be constructed in such a fashion to provide cellphone coverage inside it or maybe every business should be obligated to provide a transmitter site to ensure coverage in all areas of there premisises
Maybe the subways should have to provide induction loops to provide an underground feed and Smokey the Bear have repeaters in the trees of all national parks so that emergancy call gets through when camping while on call [Smile]

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-17-2004, 02:18 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
Always worked for me..

So you've permanently ended this problem?

My brother is an EMT, and when he is on call, he doesn't go to the theater. When he's not on call, he keeps his pager and cell phone with him anyway so he can monitor what's going on, but when it's time to go in the theater, they're off.

My dad is a maintenance guy for an apartment complex who is also on call 24x7. While no one has ever died from a leaky roof, broken pipe or over flowing toilet AFAIK, he still makes arrangements for someone else to hold the pager when he's planning to be away from the complex for an hour.

I used to be the senior Novell support engineer for Astra Pharmaceuticals, and when I was on call, guess what.... I stayed home.

Choosing a career where you will be on call means you are choosing to give up certain freedoms.

Here is another story:

link

quote:
Churches Installing Cell Phone Jammers

Sun Oct 17, 7:17 AM ET
By OLGA R. RODRIGUEZ, Associated Press Writer

MONTERREY, Mexico - It was the reporters who noticed first. Unable to call their editors while covering the weddings of the rich and famous, they asked the priest why their cell phones never worked at Sacred Heart. His reply: Israeli counterintelligence.

In four Monterrey churches, Israeli-made cell phone jammers the size of paperbacks have been tucked unobtrusively among paintings of the Madonna (news - web sites) and statues of the saints.

The jarring polychromatic din of ringing cell phones is increasingly being thwarted — from religious sanctuaries to India's parliament to Tokyo theaters and commuter trains — by devices originally developed to help security forces avert eavesdropping and thwart phone-triggered bombings.

The Indian parliament had jammers installed after politicians ignored requests to turn off their cell phones and legislative sessions were constantly interrupted.

In Italy, universities started using the blockers after discovering that cell phone-savvy teenagers were cheating on exams by sending text messages or taking pictures of tests.

The four Roman Catholic Churches in this northern city began using the devices, from Tel Aviv-based Netline Communications Technologies Ltd., after an insurance salesman imported them as a personal favor for a priest.

"There are still many people who don't understand that being at Mass is sharing a moment with God," said the Rev. Juan Jose Martinez, a spokesman for archdiocese. "Sadly, we had no other choice but to use these little gadgets."

Purchased for about $2,000 each, they can be turned on by remote control and emit low-level radio frequencies that thwart cell phone signals within a 100-foot radius.

Users get a "no service" or "signal not available" message on their cell phones.

Although Mexico has no law against the devices, the private use of cell phone blockers is illegal in the United States and most Western countries.

But the tide is turning.

Japan allows public places such as theaters and concert halls to install jammers, provided they obtain a government-issued license. And last week, France's industry minister approved a decision to let cinemas, concert halls and theaters install them — as long as provisions are in place so emergency calls can still be made.

Canada had considered allowing blocking in similar situations. But Industry Canada, which regulates the country's telecommunications, decided against it, saying the devices could infringe on personal freedom and affect public safety by crippling communication with law enforcement and security agencies.

Officials at Netline, which sold its first jammer in 1998, say they are selling thousands of jammers a year and have expanded their business throughout the world.

They're far from the only manufacturers. The devices are sold the world over, with dozens of suppliers selling them on the Internet.

Tokyo-based Medic Inc. sold thousands of its Wave Wall jammers before the government stepped in and regulated their use to venues with live performances. Commuters still buy mobile jammers to shut up chatty train passengers, even though their use is illegal.

In Scotland, businessman Ronnie McGuire, owner of Electron Electrical Engineering Services, imported Taiwan-made cell phone blockers and sold them to hotels, restaurants and bars until a local newspaper reported his activities, which were illegal in Britain.

McGuire has said he will still import the Taiwanese devices but sell them for export only to countries where they are allowed.

Loreen Haim, the director of marketing and sales for Netline, wouldn't say how many devices the company sells per year or what country buys the most.

In Mexico, the main clients have been banks looking to stop would-be robbers from communicating with their accomplices and the Mexican government, which is planning to use them at prisons, Haim said.

In Monterrey, the Sacred Heart church, a baroque temple favored by Mexico's elite for weddings, church officials acquired their blockers two years ago.

"Whenever there was a wedding, cell phones would ring every five minutes," said Bulmaro Carranza, a parish clerk. "It was a real problem because there were times when even the groom would forget to turn his cell phone off."

For months, the devices went unnoticed until reporters covering the weddings began complaining that their cell phones never worked.

Since word of the jammers went public, priests from around Mexico have been calling to find out how to get them, said Carranza.

At Sacred Heart, a device at the entrance to the church and another by the altar are turned on right before every Mass. Still, priests remind parishioners to turn off their phones before beginning the services, hoping good cell phone etiquette will eventually catch on.

The other Monterrey churches with the devices — The Rosario, San Juan Bosco and Our Lady Queen of the Angels — are also frequented by wealthier parishioners, Martinez said.

"For a lot of them, the cell phone is a necessity. But that shouldn't prevent them from having good manners and remembering that one must respect sacred places," Martinez said.

Margarita Escobedo, a Catholic who goes to church at least twice a week and volunteers at the San Genaro church, says she would welcome the jammers in her parish, where cell phones are becoming a nuisance.

"Those who bring cell phones to church are not committed to God," Escobedo said. "It's very distracting to be praying and suddenly hear birds chirping or techno music."

C'mon, FCC... get with the program!

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 10-17-2004, 11:33 PM:

The company that makes jammers http://www.netline.co.il

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 10-18-2004, 02:24 AM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Doctors could use the old tried and true system: They tell the office or hospital they're going to the movies, then when they get to the theatre they tell the managment they are in auditorium so-and-so, and if a call comes in, the manager gets the doc out of the theatre and to the phone. We have done it this way at this theatre for oh about 25 years

I'm afraid that wouldn't be workable now in most US theatres, which are multiplexes for which it's almost impossible to get a telephone number which a human will answer. And even if you do get a number which a human is supposed to answer, there's often no answer because they're so understaffed that the person responsible for answering the phone is too busy or away from the phone. I can't be the only one who has spent 15 or 20 minutes a) on the phone listening to some stupid recording that only gives out a live person's number at the end of the announcements or doesn't give it out at all or b) lets the thing ring & ring, no one answers, & then it may roll over to the recorded announcement.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Some people behave badly.. But, that is not a reason to deny those who are following the rules.

But the ones followeing the rules are already being denied enjoying a theatrical experience by the people who are behaving badly. And they won't stop.

I hate to disagree with Jim Zeigler, but I also believe cell phones should be banned from or jammed in theatres, churches, many meetings, etc. Some people are too selfish to care, & others are joining them through habit & accommodation. If they were jammed, then a method (like Mike described) would become neccessary & workable again.

Most people just yank out the cell phone & if it's a call they don't want to miss, anwer it before the caller hangs up. In the rare occasions when they leave the theater, they're yakking into the phone on the way out of the row & up the aisle. Checking the phone is really just as bad: the person a couple of seats down or in the row in front has this sort of spastic fit when the phone rings, starts digging in coat, pants, belt, purse, change jingling, keys rattling, clothes going everywhere, arms & elbows into the air & the person next to them, jeking back & forth like they're being hit with cattle prods. The phone comes out, THE LIGHT COMES ON, you're watching them to see if they're going to answer it or when this distraction will end, then they either answer it, put it away, or get up. Then you try to go back to the show.

It's probably kind of moot, anyway. I don't think they're liable to ban or jam cell phones in theatres in the US. Changing the FCC rules would bring the cell phone companies & selfish phone users out loud & strong. If there's any change, it will likely be just to give jamming powers to law enforcement & emergency agencies in some anti-terrorism bomb-related legislation.

If the push for jamming ever got a start somewhere, it would likely be with the Broadway theaters or performing venues like symphony halls where the problem is massive & the patrons & operators all want it to stop. But in movie theaters, the prevailing industry laziness of dealing with things like getting staff to take calls & alert patrons would fall under the heading of Too Much Trouble, like better training for projectionists instituted & coordinated at corporate level. It's too much trouble & expense to put on that good a show, & cheaper & easier just to lower expectations.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-19-2004, 01:43 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Jim--are you saying that cinemas should not be allowed to jam/block cellular telephone transmission and reception, or that you would not patronize an establishment that did block or jam those signals?

Blocking cellular signals is a federal crime in the United States. If it was not, I would not patronize any place that does. Honestly, so far, people here have advocated blocking them in any public place, and many want them banned in cars too.. So, I have to ask, just where do you think people should use thier cell phone?

quote: Gordon McLeod
If someone is on call they have chosen that as their lifestyle or occupation and as such are renumerated for that and as such have no right to be causing an annoyance to others. Also by

So Gordon, it would annoy you if I steped out of the theatre if my phone was on vibrate? By that logic, theatres should close the stands and shut down the restroom so NO ONE could leave and annoy anyone else...

Let me give you a personal example.. I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol. As such, I am on call 24/7 should my squadron be called becasue of any number of things - missing aircraft, natural disasters, missing persons, etc. I don't get paid a cent to do it, I am a volunteer. So, you are saying, that, by me volunteering my time, that I "have chosen that as their lifestyle or occupation and as such are renumerated for that and as such have no right to be causing an annoyance to others." That I should then be barred from theatres or restaurants?

quote: Mark J. Marshall
So you've permanently ended this problem?

I handle it as it arrises. Just as I handle talkers, crying babies, people with alcohol, etc...

quote: Mark J. Marshall
My brother is an EMT, and when he is on call, he doesn't go to the theater.

So? Odds are, if he has assigned on call days, he probably has a higher chance of getting called than an ob/gyn. But, that still doesn't answer the question of people who are on call 24/7.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 10-19-2004, 02:58 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
Blocking cellular signals is a federal crime in the United States.

Blocking? Surely you mean jamming.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-19-2004, 04:20 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol.

Thank you for your service! [thumbsup]

quote: Jim Ziegler
Honestly, so far, people here have advocated blocking them in any public place, and many want them banned in cars too..

No, we're advocating banning them in places of business, which is more like private property AFAIK.

Let me ask you a question, Jim... What if I decide to wrap my theater in chicken wire and aluminum foil and effectively BLOCK all outside radio signals including those from cell phones and pagers from entering the building. Should I be allowed to do that? Or should that be illegal too? I ask because it's not illegal to do that, and a cell phone jammer accomplishes exactly the same thing. Most (except for the super high powered military ones) don't even penetrate glass let alone steel and concrete.

So if I can block the signals from entering the room, why is it a problem to install a small un-obtrusive device inside the room that does the same thing? I'd like to know if you think they should both be legal, or they should both be illegal.

Posted by Dick Twentyman (Member # 2746) on 10-19-2004, 10:56 PM:

Do cellphone jamming signals have any effect on audio hearing loops installed in an auditorium?

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-20-2004, 11:52 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
No, we're advocating banning them in places of business, which is more like private property AFAIK.

In the U.S. radio waves are considered public property, which is basis for FCC regulations. Any non-government action to jam anything, be it cell phones, radio stations, police radar, etc, is a violation of Federal law.

quote: Mark J. Marshall
What if I decide to wrap my theater in chicken wire and aluminum foil and effectively BLOCK all outside radio signals including those from cell phones and pagers from entering the building. Should I be allowed to do that? Or should that be illegal too? I ask because it's not illegal to do that, and a cell phone jammer accomplishes exactly the same thing.

There is a diffence between passive blocking - i.e. making the building so thick that radio signals can't escape, and active jamming, which would be to broadcast a signal designed to deny the public access to the public airwaves. One is regulated by building codes in your area, the other by the Federal Government.

My guess is that local authorities would probably not let you build a structure deliberatly designed to block radio signals, as such a building would pose life and safety issues due to the inability of police, fire and paramedic radios to penitrate the structure.

I still maintain that the easiest way to deal with any disruptions - be they people chatting, people on the phone, people smoking, drinking or kicking other chairs, is frequent auditorium checks by theatre ushers or security personnel, and and strong and consistant enforcement of a no-disruptions policy. After getting kicked out of a couple of movies - without a refund - for talkng on you cell phone, you will either get the point, or stop coming back. Either way, problem solved..

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-23-2004, 10:35 AM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
Any non-government action to jam anything, be it cell phones, radio stations, police radar, etc, is a violation of Federal law.

We got that, we're saying the law should be changed. Hence my quote:

quote:
C'mon, FCC... get with the program!

Apparently, you're only half way paying attention to the discussion here so I see no point in me continuing.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 10-23-2004, 02:21 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
I still maintain that the easiest way to deal with any disruptions - be they people chatting, people on the phone, people smoking, drinking or kicking other chairs, is frequent auditorium checks by theatre ushers or security personnel, and and strong and consistant enforcement of a no-disruptions policy.

With respect, I don't think that is the easiest way. Enforcing good behaviour means a significant investment in staff time, doesn't always work and can be very disruptive to innocent third parties. What happens if an usher notices someone chatting away on their mobile 'phone in the middle of an block, and all the seats between the offender and the aisle are occupied? (S)he then has to barge past several other customers to get to the offender, who might not co-operate - or simply wait until the usher has gone and then make another call.

Enforcement also needs pretty good interpersonal skills and can be very stressful for the person doing the enforcing. When I was in the business I'd frequently be asked to help get rid of rowdy customers from the bar, or evict customers who wouldn't drink up and leave after drinking-up time. I was frequently ignored, abused and much else besides by idiots who simply refused to comply. I'm sure the same thing would happen if you had ushers patrolling the screens and asking people to switch their 'phones off.

The beauty of jamming mobile 'phone signals is that it is a technological solution which does not give the offender the option of refusing to comply. Their mobile simply will not work, so if they want to use it they have to leave your theatre. For the theatre it would probably be cheaper than providing the manpower needed to enforce a ban effectively, and front-of-house staff would be spared the stress.

Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 10-26-2004, 10:30 PM:

"If you're so important you can't be out of touch for an hour, you shouldn't go to the movies"......?

Tell that to the firefighters who ALL had to respond to 9/11 (rest their souls) - they didn't deserve a normal life?

I live in the Washington DC area ... tell that to the numerous public servants who would like just a couple of hours of respite from the crappy world they have to deal with.

Tell that to the guy who's waiting for word that his heart transplant operation needs to start RIGHT NOW because a match is available (I know someone who waited for that news for months).

Sure, the theater seems full of insensitive idiots - and now with those darned musical "ringtones", it sounds like one of the Super Mario Bros. is in the next row every 5 minutes or so. But jamming, much as we might desire it, is not a workable solution.

Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 2038) on 10-27-2004, 02:00 PM:

Our old theater took care of that problem all by itself. There is the original tin ceiling above the auditorium (covered by later-installed drop ceiling panels) and the tin doesn't let much in as far as RF. Most (but not all) services can't penetrate it, although those annoying chirping Nextel 2-ways seem to work okay. The phones are usable in the lobby.

What I see when the show starts is all those blue glowing phones downstairs (finishing up the games, I guess). Those blue lights are bright in a dark room!

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 10-27-2004, 10:54 PM:

Yeah, shame we can't install a black hole to suck all of the light out of the room too.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 10-28-2004, 02:27 AM:

I have actually given this issue thought in the past and came up with an idea. Build the Theatre with a passive blocking system so that cell phone and pager signals can't make it into the auditoriums (public safety radios transmit a much higher power and would need much more material to block so they'll be ok). Then install an internal pager system (with pagers that only vibrate) similar to a restaurant waiting pager. Set it up so that people who are legitimately in need of being contacted will get a pager, and give a special number to the people that would need to contact them. The only people that get pagers will have to prove they need it in some way. With this idea, you would eliminate the problem of people yapping but you'd still let people who really need to be in touch stay in contact.

PS- I wonder if those handheld jammers work. You need an aweful lot of power (relative to what a handheld transmitter would normally output) to transmit wideband enough to raise the noise floor of the whole cellular spectrum. If it does work, I surely wouldn't clip it on my belt...I might want to have kids one day.