Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Sub-Run theatres

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Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 11-08-2004, 12:07 AM:

I work for GKC and May of this year my theater closed down. We were basically a sub-run theater that played movies that were too old to be at first run houses but not old enough to come out on DVD yet... you get the point.
Anyway....Curious to know if anyone works at a sub-run theater. We were the last in the company and it's sad to think that there aren't too many of them left anymore [Frown]

And I miss my 5 platter system too!

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 11-08-2004, 12:42 AM:

I work at a sub-run, the only one in the Richmond ares, as such business is usually pretty good. Admission is $2.00. We keep our concession prices down to encourage business too. Screen ads also are also a significant part of revenue. Mid-nites don't hure either.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-08-2004, 08:12 AM:

Sub runs have been squeezed hard by the ever smaller gap between theatrical and video release. In the Chicago area the Classic Cinemas chain had a whole fleet of sub-runs in the not so distant past. Most are now first run or are no longer in their orbit (sold, leased, lease not renewed, whatever).

Maybe you can find out the numbers your theatre was doing in recent years and if there is still life in the business reopen it yourself maybe with some partners. Just because it wasn't an attractive business for a larger company doesn't mean it might not generate a decent return for a smaller operator without layers of management to feed. Worth a look at least.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 11-11-2004, 12:06 AM:

The sub-run I "used to" work at did pretty well, especially on bargain Tuesdays. IMHO, they fluctuated the prices around too much on the weekdays/weekends. If you keep your prices consistent, your customers will be more consistent.

Since the hurricanes, however, the theater has had some damage. A lot of cieling tiles were down last time I was there and there was a bad smell of soaked insulation/carpet/seats in the theaters. Hope they can get that taken care of in time before it drives all the customers away.

=TMP=

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 11-11-2004, 12:26 AM:

Video release doesn't seem to hurt. Often the advertizing hype that precedes video release significantly increases our 2nd week business on a film.

Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 11-12-2004, 09:45 AM:

The single screen Englewood here used to run classic's but went first run. It wasn't doing very well with classics and barely getting by first run. The manager was stealing the place blind and was arrested so I wound up running it. However, I can't live on $9.00 an hour so I'm on a job search to go back into radio broadcast engineering full time. When I find something the owner said he'll close the theater because he doesn't have time to run it. The problem here is finding someone that is honest, can work for low wages and can run the booth and put up with the owner [Wink]

Posted by Chris Erwin (Member # 176) on 11-12-2004, 10:48 AM:

The video window has all but killed subrun. If you play subrun, my heart goes out to you. I can imagine the prints you may get.

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 11-13-2004, 02:42 AM:

chris:
Oh the prints that I have seen at the sub-run theater would make any film geek cry. Nothing like getting a note attached to a print stating "I'm sorry, this was the first time I ever tore down a movie, good luck". The movie... Gone with the Wind! hey thanks mr booth person.
before we closed, we were starting to play movie even after they showed up on video. Business was fare, but it was mainly those people who couldn't rent the film or just wanted to see it on the big screen one more time. By the time we closed, we were at $3.50 admission so it wasn't much of a bargin, especially since renting a film is almost that much. But, I'd personally rather see a film in a theater than on my tiny tv screen (if I had to choose between those two) at home and I take comfort on knowing there are more people like myself out there as well.

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 11-14-2004, 12:06 PM:

I must be the luckiest guy in the world. With all the odds against me, I still make a comfortable living running a single screen, small town, old (1921), 2nd run theatre with megaplexes all around me. 4 Regal, 1 Carmike, 1 AMC, about 90 screens in all. Not only is my business good, but there is enough income generated that I can maintain the building in good condition.

Why is this I ask. I constantly hear everyone complaining about how bad subrun business is. That it is almost non existant. Our metro area of 650,000 people still has three single screen, and one 4 screen subrun. One of the single screens does fair to good, one does poor, the 4 screen does only fair at best, and my single does very well. What's the difference? It's the way they are run. You have to run your theatre in a professional theatrical manner to lore in and keep patrons. If you do that you can still succeed 2nd run.

I also seldom ever get bad prints. If so I request a new one. That happens less then once a year. With 2500 to 5000 prints going out to 1st runs and there only being a couple hundred subrun screens, there are lots of prints available. The first runs can't (I hope not) damage all those prints.

The other key to being a successful subrun (or any run for that matter) is promoting your theatre. My theatre is constantly in the news..., newspapers, magazines, TV, with stories, photos, tie-ins, whatever it takes to stay in front of the public. Your theatre has to become a household word, a place everyone is constantly thinking about in a positive way.

I am a person of only average means and intelligence. I have been successful for almost 40 years. If I can do it. You can do it too.

Posted by Steve Kraus (Member # 476) on 11-15-2004, 12:03 AM:

Well dang; too bad Allison already took apart her theatre! [Mad]

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 11-15-2004, 12:28 AM:

Sub-runs down here do rather well, mainly by placing themselves near shopping malls and marketing themselves to the teen crowd.

Posted by Brent Neal Jones (Member # 1048) on 11-26-2004, 07:10 AM:

It's the hype on T.V. that drives most of all. Let's face it, if it's in their face and on their cup at Burger King and they just can't wait another minute, they will come to a sub-run theatre. Because a film only dies when the reviews and the publicity dies. And some films have after-life...(not many anymore) I've ran sub-run theatres and been part of some for a long time, and I just love it when a movie gets a little more attention before video release...man it helps! [Smile]

Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 11-26-2004, 09:04 AM:

Richard: I have been outside your theatre but never inside to catch a show! I would like to do that someday. Nice marquee!

Allison: Is the GKC sub-run place you are referring to, the "Westlake Cinemas," by any chance? I believe they closed about the time that Rave Theatres opened their new 18-plex about 3 miles away...adding to the previously existing market of Goodrich's Willow Knolls 14 (about 2 miles away) and GKC's own Landmark 10 about 1 1/2 miles away) pretty tough to compete and, at $3.50 admission, not attractive enough to draw patrons away.

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 11-28-2004, 12:00 AM:

Justin,

You are correct about Westlake. Our attendance was declining WAY before the Rave even was thought of out there. We did great business until we raised our prices to $2.00 and the DVD boom occurred. I was the last manager to manager Metro when that closed down as well. Maybe I just have bad luck at theaters!

Did you work for the Drive-In in Peoria? (the Varsity comes to mind but i'm sure that's not what it was called)

Posted by Justin West (Member # 920) on 11-28-2004, 10:03 AM:

No, I have only worked at a drive-in near Louisville, KY...but I regularly attended many drive-in theatres in the Peoria area in the distant past. The Varsity was the indoor theatre (now demolished) aimed at the college crowd along Main Street, near Bradley University.

Posted by Dave Williams (Member # 299) on 11-28-2004, 01:30 PM:

quote: Chris Erwin
I can imagine the prints you may get.

In fact even a subrun theater can get great prints, even new ones! If they are bad, all you have to do is bitch about it and you get a replacement print, one that has either been completely reviewed and certified for archiving, or a new print altogether. The distributors are required to do so by the film companies they service.

So you sub runs out there, bitch and moan until you get great prints, and if you can't get great prints, have your buyer contact the film companies and bitch to them about the prints. Bitching always works.

I love bitching alot.

Ciao babe

Dave

Posted by Ed Inman (Member # 2583) on 11-29-2004, 03:57 PM:

I'm curious if anyone is involved with sub-run theaters in smaller cities that specialize in limited platform, independent and foreign films once the major "arthouse" theaters in big cities are done with them.

Also whether anyone has experience with multi-use theaters that only screen films part-time but are also used for concerts, plays, community meetings, bars, coffee shops, etc.

Is there a viable market for these kinds of venues in small cities?

Ed

Posted by Ray Kaufman (Member # 2351) on 11-29-2004, 06:18 PM:

Ed, It all depends on the demographic. AND, the education level. Live theatre is a wholely different animal. I'd say the more versatile the venue, especially the smaller, independent ones, the better. A larger college town whould be at the top of my list as a possibility likely to be successful. A decidely rural town on the other hand, well.

Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 11-29-2004, 11:13 PM:

I run a twin in a small rural town with a population of about 10,000 and drawing area of about 50,000 or more. We try and run first run most of the time, when there is good product. If there is a week where we cannot get a "new" release or the only thing out is something we don't anticipate will do well, we opt for something we missed a few weeks prior doubled up with an independent/foreign film. For the most part we've made a little off this formula, and are hoping as the news spreads we are running these "better quality" films the audience will come steadily to see it. We are also partnering with area schools to book repertory titles that relate to education (ie books they are reading turned movie) for private screenings.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 11-30-2004, 01:45 AM:

Isn't the Byrd sub-run? The Tampa runs films between bus & trucks & other stage fare. Both are in larger-size towns. The Tampa's films are paid for by a sponsor, as is typical of most PAC's running movies.

PAC's often run films, but generally as part of a regular summer or midnight movie series. The main thing is that people start getting into the frame of mind & habit to going to the venue: admissions pick up as the series progresses (if the shows are good), & drop off when there's an interruption of film programming for some other programming. A lot of non-profit PAC's put on crappy shows & don't get return customers (& then blame the market & discontinue running movies).

Those cafe-type "eat a pizza & drink beer while you watch a movie" kind of theaters used to be more common in college-type towns & did well enough with sub-run fare. Getting into the restaurant business is probably another kettle of fish. Often what's killed the restaurant-with-movie or restaurant-with-theatre-organ combo places has been mediocre or bad food.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 11-30-2004, 07:53 AM:

Yes the Byrd is sub-run, and turning enough bucks to keep itself open. We're open 365 days with Saturday midnights, frequent daytime rentals and occasional evening rentals. I guess we are whores, we'll do almost anything for a dollar. Operation by a non-profit is still years away.

Our fare is mainstream sub-run, artsy stuff doesn't play well here. The Byrd Theatre Foundation, if and when it is ever able to assume operation plans to continue with the same. Performing arts centers (whatever that means) in old theatres are dime a dozen and can't break even doing it.

Posted by Nicholas Roznovsky (Member # 861) on 11-30-2004, 01:33 PM:

quote: Bill Enos
I guess we are whores, we'll do almost anything for a dollar.

That's the ticket to success in this business! [Wink]

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 11-30-2004, 09:50 PM:

My theatre operates very similar to the Byrd. Mainstream subrun for the most part. Only a few art titles once in a while. I also do whatever it takes to stay open... film festivals, company meetings, birthday parties, bachelor parties... you name it. However, since my theatre has full stage facilities it is also often used for live theatre, concerts, dance recitals, political debates, weddings, recording sessions, photo ops, holiday onstage parties etc.

Even so, 85 to 90% of the time I'm showing movies. While the movies still make up the lions share of the income, the other uses help a great deal in getting through the otherwise slow periods.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-01-2004, 01:13 AM:

Political debates? This fall there was a 4 man race for mayor. A political group wanted to have a debate between the 4 on our stage on a Saturday night for free, and didn't want the concession open either. Our fee for any Sat. night would be at least $5000. The chairman of the committee was pissed when our GM declined their request. They were offered any Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday for $800 but they were not interested. They don't seem to realize that not only does it cost to operate the building but money is lost from tickets not sold and concessions.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 12-01-2004, 01:46 AM:

quote: Bill Enos
I guess we are whores, we'll do almost anything for a dollar.

Whores = professionals?

You hear folks in every profession make this joking disparaging comparison about themselves at some time.

quote: Bill Enos
Operation by a non-profit is still years away.

Enjoy these times while you can. There are stellar exceptions, but in my experience & observation, in a statistcal concentration near 90%, the for-profits are better theaters & better-run, too. It gets very different when you replace a management & staff with a BOARD, management & staff. Quite a few non-profits are dark most if not all of the year. Somehow, through various & different ways, with a non-profit, the incentive is often no longer to put butts in the seats & pay the bills.

There are quite a few for-profit big PAC's in historic houses. Without exception they look at the non-profits as dreams come true, & wish THEY had that non-profit money (from grants, etc.) But the vast majority of non-profits don't have anything approaching the amount of programming that the for-profits maintain. All that non-profit grant money often goes to bizarre, non-revenue generating projects or salaries. And most of the staff at the for-profits enjoy their jobs more, since the objective is plain, always easily understood, & not subject to weird whimsical changes.

A lot of theaters when they become non-profits are operated in ways that are not competent, & not even rational.