Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Fire Lane Violations

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Posted by Chris Mosel (Member # 1451) on 12-23-2004, 04:09 PM:

After being open for almost six years with no problems, we have one officer who has started to ticket or give written warnings to people who stop in the fire lane in front of the theatre. This applies to everyone including people who just get tickets and don't enter the building. He has even warned parents who are still in their car waitng to pick up children. We realize that stopping in the fire lane is against the law, but people are never more than 15 feet from their cars and are there for an average of 30 seconds ( I spent two hours timing last Saturday.) We have asked the police department to use a little common sense and see that as long as people don't actually "Park" there it is safer than having a parade of people across the drive and in the parking lot.
Have any of you ever had an issue with this?

[ 12-24-2004, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: Chris Mosel ]

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 12-23-2004, 05:21 PM:

This has never been a problem for us as the local police claim that since our lot is private property, they have no jurisdiction under Pennsylvania law to ticket any improper parking violations. Some years ago I worked with a volunteer firefighter who would make comments to people before they parked (mostly because the violators were going to gamble at the off-track betting facility next door). He never parked close to the building in that if there was a fire, no firefighters would damage his piece-of-shit 1969 Ford van.

Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 12-24-2004, 04:10 AM:

There pretty much is no "common sense" when it comes to stuff like this. Your Texas Vehicle Code probably pretty clearly states that no vehicles may be parked, or left standing in a red zone.

The "left standing" part is what makes it stick.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-24-2004, 11:44 AM:

We have our priorities straight here. Fire lane regs on private property are not enforced, but the firefighters do have complete discression over how to handle a vehicle that is blocking access. I've seen errant cars shoved out of the way by pumper units when the battalion chief thought it necessary. The best one I've seen here was a car that parked in front of a building's dry stand pipe. The firefighters pulled the car's locked doors open and ran their hoses right on through it. [Big Grin]

Very satisfying to watch. [evil]

Even though fire lane rules go unenforced on private property here, handicapped parking rules, even on private property, are aggressively enforced. Must be all that potential fine revenue (USD $271 for parking in such a spot without proper ID) coloring the enforcement decisions.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-24-2004, 12:39 PM:

Question: Is this officer on a paid detail?

If so, I would imagine you have the right to tell him (and the department) how you want the fire lane restrictions enforced.

I agree: The fire lane must be kept clear for any reasonable emergency need.

I agree: Enforcing the fire lane regulation also prevents gang activity ("drive-bys") and keeps traffic moving.

I DISAGREE: That the fire lane regulation must be enforced in all situations.

It is your property. You are paying the officer. You have the right to dictate (within reason) how certain things will be enforced.

I suggest you tell the officer (and his department superiors) that you want the fire lane regs enforced but you want:

1) A two minute grace period for pick-ups and drop-offs. (Or whatever time period you decide.)

2) The driver of the car can NOT leave the car or the immediate vicinity. (Allow parents to open the doors so kids can get in.)

3) There should be ONE warning from the officer to move the car or get a ticket.

4) The officer can use his "professional judgement" in case of potential safety/security problems. (e.g.: Prevent "drive-bys" or getaways from potential hold-ups.)

I don't know why a paid detail officer would waste his time enforcing such a small potatoes rule like that. I imagine he would have his hands full patrolling the grounds and monitoring activity near the lobby/box office for trouble makers.

Time spent writing tickets for minor traffic violations is time taken away from keeping your property CUSTOMERS safe and secure. If the officer had his priorities straight he would know that... Unless he's some kind of "Barney Pfife". [Wink]

Posted by Brandon Willis (Member # 2345) on 12-24-2004, 03:48 PM:

We used to have an officer who would go outside every now and then and look for cars that were parked in the handicapped spaces but didn't have handicapped tags, and give tickets to them. I had a customer bitch me out once about it, like it was my fault.

By the way - "Barney Pfife"?? That's how you spell it?

Posted by Chris Mosel (Member # 1451) on 12-25-2004, 06:10 PM:

He is not on paid detail, the theatre is part of his patrol district. The officers we pay for security also think this one particular cop is being a jerk and have even told him so. His superiors refuse to budge on this issue, even after several discussions. We are in talks with the fire marshal to see if we can re-zone a small section to loading zone.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-25-2004, 07:01 PM:

Sounds like he's looking for a payoff. Expect continuted harrassment until you pay him to look the other way. That's standard procedure here and in places like NYC. [Wink]

And Barney's last name is spelled "Fife."

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-26-2004, 01:53 AM:

When our theater would hire a cop for security, they would always park their cruiser in the fire lane in front of the box office. Who gives THEM a ticket??

=TMP=

Posted by Mike Bianchi (Member # 271) on 12-26-2004, 06:14 AM:

Unfortunately, if you've talked to his superiors then you've probaby done all you can do. As a cop myself, I agree with his peers that say he is being a jerk. Under Kentucky law, we have enforcement power on such issues even on private property and our law has he "or stand" clause. That's a catch-all that works even for people sitting in the car.

But, common sense and discretion should apply. People park at our National Amusements theatre all the time out front and we never say a word - on patrol or paid detail - unless they leave it for a long time or something odd. If they are waiting for their kids and are snarling up traffic, we might ask them to make a circle around the building to keep the flow going but that's about it.

Fireman always want radical enforcement of fire codes - even in brick and concrete buildings! I wonder if this cop was once a volunteer firefighter?

Working for a loading zone is probably you best bet for now. It stinks that you must do that, but he is technically correct - and a jerk! .

Does your theatre give passes to the local police? I would try the superiors one more time - up to the chief or even the mayor or city manager. In that discussion, I'd tell them you are suspending passes. He could retaliate and cite even more cars, but it would worth it to me to pay an usher to stand outside and shoo people away (blaming the unreasonable police, of course).

I hate when guys like him make us all look bad. It's the same as rotten theatre operators driving people to home video!

As for the cop parking in the fire lane on the other detail, he's probably legal. The generic term is "fire lane" but it really applies to all emergency vehicles. That is where he would park if there were an emergency, so he's just got a head start. Still, it looks poor. When I work a detail at the theatre, I do park in the fire lane but way down at the end of the lane out of the way. There is too much equipment in the car to leave it out on the lot, out of sight (shotgun, rifle, radio, Panasonic Tough Book 28 mobile data computer, etc.). And the end is where I would park in an emergency, to block access after fire units arrive.

Good luck on this difficult situation!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 12-27-2004, 09:02 AM:

quote: Paul Mayer

Sounds like he's looking for a payoff.

I was thinking the same thing.

Go ahead and make the payoff. Just make sure it's in front of the box office where the cameras are. [evil]

Or, better still, move one of the cameras to a place where it normally doesn't point then tell him to "Go over there where there are no cameras"... which just happens to be that place.

I've seen the same kind of tricks with fire inspectors in theaters. They come in looking for the Fireproofing Certificate for your stage curtains. When they don't find it they threaten to shut you down... All the while, scratching at their palm.

That's when you walk over to the main curtain, lift up the corner and show him the label:

INTRINSICALLY FIRE RETARDANT FOR THE LIFE OF THE PRODUCT.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 12-27-2004, 10:27 AM:

yeah, I have a real problem with that Thomas. Same goes with Wal-Mart, and any place in which cops are hired to give security. The best is the "Reserved for Police" parking at Malls. I'm sorry, why do they need up-front parking if they are working off-duty? If they are on duty, they just park themselves in the fire-lane anyways.....

I have nothing but respect for cops, but between that and the fact that I sold 5 portable DVD units to cops for their patrol cars makes me REALLY nervous. They told me it was for "off-duty"....

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 12-27-2004, 03:53 PM:

Dean,

I could give two flips less what any officer is doing on or off duty so long as they are there when needed. So what, he's watching Finding Nemo while being paid? As long as he's on scene at whatever emergency arises, I could care less...

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 12-27-2004, 06:06 PM:

well yes, being somewhere when they are needed is helpful, I like that too. Where do you think his/her eyes will be? Maybe I'm wrong or something, do you watch movies when instead of keeping lines down or doing presentation checks?

at work, they don't let us have an Xbox in the break room....I wonder why

Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 12-27-2004, 07:31 PM:

wait...im confused

watching a movie != Presentation Check

[Confused]

Posted by David Yauch (Member # 2754) on 12-28-2004, 05:38 AM:

Dean I agree with your sentiment, but chase has a point [Big Grin]

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 12-28-2004, 10:57 AM:

probably wasn't the best example...but there is a difference in watching a movie and doing a presentation check. change mine to say watching TV [Big Grin]

Posted by Brandon Willis (Member # 2345) on 12-30-2004, 06:59 PM:

Our security officers on the weekends drive their cruisers onto the sidewalk in front of the building and park them there, so that they're visible to anyone who enters the building, as sort of a deterrent from starting [bs]

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 12-30-2004, 07:20 PM:

I thought there was a law (in most states) that says a TV/monitor cannot be visible to the driver at any time. Guess if the cop wants to watch Finding Nemo while off-duty, he'll have to hop in the back seat! [sex]

=TMP=

Posted by Barry Martin (Member # 1376) on 12-31-2004, 12:03 AM:

Thomas, I recall hearing something similar when asking about a car stereo with a flip-out LCD screen and DVD capability and I was told they had to be setup so that the screen could not be used while the vehicle was in gear. I think this is also why most in-ceiling mobile video units are mounted behind the drivers head, so they can be on while the vehicle is in motion and entertain the kids in back, sucks to sit passenger I guess. [Wink]

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 12-31-2004, 12:37 AM:

There are laws like that in most if not all states, but they are not enforced. Aftermarket car stereo installation shops here have reported that one of the most popular installs is a viewing screen up front. The screen is supposed to be for navigation and media system status displays only, but the manufacturers are supplying them set up for DVD display as well. Just saw a bunch of them on display today at the local Good Guys here.

The situation is similar for laws regarding the tinting of car windows. There are limits on how dark the tint can be, but the laws aren't enforced. And they are secondary violations anyway--one can't be pulled over for too dark windows, but one can be cited for that once one has been pulled over for some primary violation.

Posted by Brent Neal Jones (Member # 1048) on 01-05-2005, 07:28 PM:

Remember, you DO have control of your parking lot, even if shared by other stores in a strip mall. It is the managers duty to be sure that possible patrons are not being harrassed by an officer on private property. Unless they are "parked" there during business hours or being a public nusance, (loud music, ect) they can't bother your patrons. Ive only had this experience with one theatre,(fire-lane in front which people constantly stopped in to see show times) but, never had trouble with the law. However, I know Im in the right on this one and would deal with the problem accordingly. You can and should make a complaint to your local precinct if this problem persists.
At the drive-in, we dont even allow officers to patroll or show athority, nor do we ask them to do so. Good management needs no policing. [Wink]

We have our own security...