Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Possible Projection Offer (this thread has gone way off topic ... no guarantees)

This is topic Possible Projection Offer (this thread has gone way off topic ... no guarantees) in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001351

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 01-31-2005, 11:29 PM:

Ok, As you all know, I am an Assistant MAnager at my theatre. My manager left about 2 weeks ago and they have a new one. He is a really nice guy and can handle the place. I was told tonight by my DM that they are looking to to major rennovations to the theatre. In those rennovations, they will be hiring a projectionist or 2.He noticed my face when I found that out......I wasn't very pleased, I was concerned about the film.

My bosses know that I adore, and have a major fascination with running movies and everything about the booth and film. Upon being told that I might not project but VERY little, I was a little shocked. Their reasoning for hiring another projectionist is for that person to be concentrating on the movies, parking cars, directing traffic, lights, security in the field, etc. So it can leave management free to manage the theatre properly.

They also realize that I am new at this and are willing to help me in any way possible. However, the DM said to me that if I wanted to do only projection, and have them find another Assistant MGR, to tell him and the switch would be made. He said he wouldn't be mad, he just wants me to be honest with him. (He saw that I was upset after hearing about a seperate projectionist)

My dilemma is, I know they can't cut my pay, but I'm not sure if I would get the same amount of hours. I could also help in box, concession, and other places as needed.

The film and equipment are my baby, I really am considering the job. It is what I LOVE to do and if I can still get 40hrs doing it, I think it would be perfect.

I see his point of view about frreing up management to do other things, so it isn't a bad thing. I just am not sure yet. Any Opinions?

[ 02-19-2005, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: Adam Martin ]

Posted by Chris Brown (Member # 2800) on 01-31-2005, 11:49 PM:

Richard, I would say that if there is a way for you to keep doing projection, then that is what you should try to do. Obviously your DM sees how much you enjoy it and is (hopefully) glad to have someone who is so willing to learn and improve. I can see how this would be a bit of a tough spot for you, but it sounds like you're in a good situation to work your way out of this jam. I'm actually surprised that your DM is being so facilitating in all this.

Anyways, like I said, if booth is what you really want, then whatever you can do to stay in the booth is what I think you should do.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-01-2005, 10:29 AM:

Don't feel too bad, Richard. I've turned down many "promotions" to assistant manager just so I could stay in the booth. I even suggested "booth manager" to a few theaters that didn't have one, where I would work mainly in the booth but help out on the floor where/when I can. The corporate chains didn't like that, but you might have a better shot if it's an independent.

If your DM said he's ok with it, then I would assume he's being honest with you like you're being honest with him. I've been in situations where the GM was actually upset/offended that I didn't want the assistant manager position. They wanted to give me a gold nametag and $0.25 more and make me yell at kids all day. Sorry, but I'd rather yell at the projectors, they listen better. [Wink]

=TMP=

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 02-01-2005, 10:42 AM:

quote: Richard Greco
I know they can't cut my pay

Why not?

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 02-01-2005, 10:48 AM:

AFAIK, If you reach a certain pay rate, if your position changes, they can't legally cut your pay. I may be wrong though.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 02-01-2005, 10:49 AM:

Is this a "never ending story"?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-01-2005, 11:23 AM:

Where I live, it's when they change your job description, then they can change your pay. It's when an employeer tries to reduce your pay for the same work that the state gets interested. Remember, though, there are many ways around these laws, and often employees don't have the legal resources to fight it. However, your company seems cool so probably there won't be a problem.

Can you do both? Be an assistant mgr during the week, then only work in the booth on Friday and Saturday when it's most important.

Generally, I think you have to think about it and decide what your long-term goals are. There is probably more money in management, but not quite as much fun.

Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 02-01-2005, 11:46 AM:

It would seem to me that it would be a mistake to leave management for a projection position. Projection, while a lot of fun, as a career is mostly dead end job. Management, on the other hand, gives you skills that you can use to get future jobs, both in and out of the industry. Whatever career you eventually end up with, the management experience will give you a head start in getting the job and getting ahead.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 02-01-2005, 04:57 PM:

I'll have to agree with Mitchell. Besides, when digital projection finally arrives, the control of projection will move to the office.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-01-2005, 05:53 PM:

quote: Bill Enos
I'll have to agree with Mitchell. Besides, when digital projection finally arrives, the control of projection will move to the office.

It may not matter. We will probably be dead by the time it gets that spread out. If anything the Drive-in will probably shutdown before digital becomes an issue. But who knows. My advice is stick with management but see if there is a way to work some days in the booth and be responsable for making sure everything is maintained. All managers should run and know the booth just in case someone doesn't show up.

Posted by Dean Kollet (Member # 1789) on 02-01-2005, 06:18 PM:

depends on what you want to do with your life, Richard. Being a manager always looks better, plus if they are having you do more mgmt. related tasks, you could always move up. This will look a lot better on your resume. I know it sucks not working booth that much, but if you want to get ahead, stick with mgmt.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-01-2005, 10:59 PM:

Richard,

From previous experience, you know that politics in the movie theater can be downright Faustian at times.

You know the business is full of the kind of people who would stab you in the back sooner than look at you.

Don't worry about the projectors unless that's what you really want to do. Besides, if your boss knows you can take care of the machines really well, whether your're officially a manager or a projectionist, you will be working on the projectors at least part of the time.

Take care of YOURSELF!

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 02-01-2005, 11:34 PM:

Now that I think about it, I do agree that it would be better to say in management. I have talked with uppers and have told them that I still want to build and breakdown film and be a major part in the persons training since I know the machines best anyways.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-02-2005, 02:03 PM:

quote: Dean Kollet
This will look a lot better on your resume.

Blah! Working management at a theater or working management at a grocery store equates to the same thing on a resume. However, a technical position such as projection may land you a better job in a more technical-oriented or mechanical field. Don't throw all the fun out of a job by moving to another position simply for stature.

But like everyone said, it really depends on what you want to do later in life, I guess. But never go for something just because "it will look good on the resume." There's a name for those kinds of people, aptly called "resume builders." They're the type that only seek out jobs or education and stay with it only long enough so that it "looks good on the resume." Then they move on, usually leaving a trail of shit behind them because they can't be bothered passing the torch since they've got the next best thing lined up. Very, very bad attitude to take towards your career.

To be completely honest, my projection and computer/technical experience has gotten me further than my management experience. Maybe it's because I put more passion into that kind of work, or maybe it's just because I don't like to be responsible for telling people what to do. I like to do it myself. [Smile]

But just because you think someone will be more impressed with you hearing "manager" than "projectionist" when inquiring about your previous employment is not a good enough reason to switch, IMHO.

=TMP=

P.S. And the digital projection crap needs to stop, really. We've had personal computers for nearly 30 years now but we still need to hire idiots to operate filing cabinets all day. Jobs aren't going anywhere, unless they're going overseas. And I haven't found a lens with a big enough throw yet. [Razz]

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-02-2005, 04:41 PM:

Richard,

I woudl suggest keeping your mangerment position, but taking on the booth as your own area of oversight. Train your porjectionists to do things the way you want them done and keep an eye on them. You can still be very involved in the booth without threading shows all day.

Posted by Richard Greco (Member # 2032) on 02-02-2005, 11:59 PM:

Jim, I think that is what my plan is. I still will come in early on Thursdays and stay late doing building and tear-down, but I will make sure my projectionist (yes, I'll manage him) does it the way I want.

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 02-03-2005, 02:27 PM:

When you finally sign this person's paycheck you may call him/her "my projectionist". Until then, remember the boundaries these older guys have taught you.

Posted by Adam Wilbert (Member # 1184) on 02-03-2005, 04:33 PM:

quote: Richard Greco
Their reasoning for hiring another projectionist is for that person to be concentrating on the movies, parking cars, directing traffic, lights, security in the field, etc.

This doesn't exactly sound like a projectionist position anyway. From the brief description you give, it sounds like the job description of an usher who also works in the booth.

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 02-03-2005, 04:58 PM:

Thomas said

quote: Thomas Procyk
However, a technical position such as projection may land you a better job in a more technical-oriented or mechanical field.

not true. i've been looking for jobs the past 3 months and they don't care about my projection technical experience. the only time was when i got hired by IMAX. i had projection experience and got the job. while at IMAX i was trained for management, which I put on my resume. every interview, has made a comment about my manager experience and my customer service. they never said shit about my projection skills.

the only comment i get about projection is," Oh, you must see all the movies".

between management experience and projection technical skills, management skills will get you the job.

Posted by Thomas Procyk (Member # 1170) on 02-03-2005, 07:24 PM:

William, what positions were you applying for? If they were more corporate-oriented positions then there's no doubt they will value management skills more. From the sound of it, if they made those comments about your projection experience (at IMAX?!?) then it's clear you were dealing with people who only have "management skills."

You always have to tweak your resume based on where you're applying to. I wouldn't list my computer and tech writing skills if I were looking for a projection position, nor would I list my projection skills if I were going into an IT or office position.

But my point was this: if all it takes are the words "management" on your resume to ooh and aah people, despite you actually having any REAL management experience, (like my early days at Regal where I had the title of manager but all I managed were my 18 employees, all named Simplex) then you might as well enjoy the theater job for what it is (since that's clearly why Richard has been specifically looking for theater jobs) and leave the management-skill-getting (read: resume building) for a more mundane job.

Besides, being a projectionist requires the highest level of "customer service" out of any position at the theater. [Smile]

=TMP=

Posted by William Leland III (Member # 1400) on 02-03-2005, 10:48 PM:

thomas, i see what you are saying, but i would still put manager experience on my resume, regardless of the position i was applying for. whether it was for projection, concession or a warehouse position.

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 02-13-2005, 01:39 PM:

Richard,
It never stops with you does it?

My advice is simple. Keep the Management position, work with the film when you can, use the Mgt. position to BETTER yourself and move on with your life.

Use the Mgt. skills you will gain to further yourself in life. Don't get caught up in the soul sucking cycle that is theatre management. (At least with the vast majority of chain theatres)

My best advice is to use your head, think about what you are doing and where you want be go in life and do whatever YOU feels suits YOU best.

Who are we to tell you what you should do?

I'm warning you now, the theatre business is a DEAD END unless you own the joint or are very high up in the 'food chain'.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-13-2005, 02:13 PM:

The business is far from dead end..

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-18-2005, 04:22 AM:

.if you can "multitask" and "utilize" your positions, instead of just being "cooped" up in the booth, you'd be better off in the long run.

One has to see WAY past the end of their nose-not at the end of the nose...to survive, and that should be your main goal in life.

True, we all love the world of the projection, but unfortunately we know that it's not the "icing on the cake." Some of us have taken management jobs (for it seems like "white collar" means success and survival, whereas the "blue collar" are expendable-like cats in a pine box, dime a dozen..) to keep in this business. Others have taken engineer/technician jobs from within the companies to keep that 'step ahead' from the rest of the ratrace.

Just to be a projectionist nowdays, is for kids who want a job to gas up their car, go on a date, have money to blow...but not to make a career out of. It's such a boring job to them-no future, no challenge, no growth...nothing. (so why am I still in it?..I'm a "tekkie" within a company who needs my services...lol)

Long story made short now: stay in the management and be a good service to the projectionists that are hired in your complex. The company will reward you better in the long run.

good luck-Monte

Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 02-18-2005, 08:49 AM:

quote: Thomas Procyk
However, a technical position such as projection may land you a better job in a more technical-oriented or mechanical field.

Not likely. Not in this day and age. Projectionist equates with fry cook. Even less, because fry cook at least requires a modicum of skill. Theatre projectionist hasn't been a technical position for 20 years or more. That's not to say a person operating a booth doesn't know everything there is to know and more about the equipment... or may even be an ex-service tech -- but the job of projectionist doesn't involve that much specialized knowledge anymore, and as such, means nothing to prospective employers in technical fields.

Believe me. I was a sound engineer for over 20 years, and even that failed to mean anything to most outside employers. Now the service business is going the way of the projectionist. Service is being taken in-house by the circuits, and they're paying largely unskilled people low wages to do the work that highly-trained (and compensated) engineers used to do.

I've been relegated to driving a truck for a living. Technical positions in exhibition most definitely have a bleak future.

Posted by Richard Hamilton (Member # 321) on 02-18-2005, 09:07 AM:

quote: Tim Reed
I've been relegated to driving a truck for a living. Technical positions in exhibition most definitely have a bleak future.

How so? Exhibition will always need techs to install and service equipment. I dont think the theater industry will become "plug and play" in our lifetime.

rick

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 02-18-2005, 09:15 AM:

Tim--

You are so correct The only problem is today these young punks,
who knows everything about everything and nothing about nothing,
and can destroy a print(s) in seven days has no business being in or near a booth. Sadly, this will not go away being that the
bottom line ($$$$$) is all that counts. It can be depressing when in my lifetime I have seen this busness run by pros decline
to a business operated by a bunch of school children with a
mentality on a rock. (Rant off)

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 02-18-2005, 09:35 AM:

Young people are worthless and stupid. [Roll Eyes]

quote: Floyd Justin Newton
The only problem is today these young punks,
who knows everything about everything and nothing about nothing,
and can destroy a print(s) in seven days has no business being in or near a booth

I wonder if those are young punks scratching prints over at the Uptown theater?

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 02-18-2005, 06:10 PM:

Young punks? I've seen many an "old fart" that runs a shitty booth ... shoe polish comes to mind ....

Age has nothing to do with it. Proper training and care has everything to do with it.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2005, 03:24 AM:

quote: Mike Spaeth
shoe polish comes to mind ....

...LOL - I was wicked when it came to doing the shoe polish thing. Actually, when the bottle was empty, I would refill the bottle up with white latex paint, add a bit of water to make it a bit thin, get the applicator sponge nice and soaked, and I could do a nice 2ft string of paint on the emulsion side of the print only with one hand movement-from back 2ft in from the leader cut to the cut end where I would make my splice on the head of the reel. Then, I would let the film dry before doing the actual join.

And using that white latex paint, stuff would never shed, peel, flake, and what have you in the gate and trap assembly throughout the entire print's run. And some of the runs would be weeks long.

-Monte

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 02-19-2005, 08:01 AM:

Here here Monte! Shoe polish was only applied over the sprocket holes. Never over the picture or sound track.

...Rick

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2005, 12:30 PM:

quote: Rick Raskin
Never over the picture or sound track.

LOL - Whooops, I forgot to mention that when I made my line of "shoe polish", I made a clean line covering the area from sprocket hole to the edge of the film, or the SDDS track, then on the emulsion side only. Why the emulsion side only is that nothing sticks to the base side of the film whereas the emulsion absorbs anything wet.

-Monte

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-19-2005, 12:58 PM:

shoe polish is evil and only ment for one thing......SHOES!!!!!!!

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2005, 01:39 PM:

...(lol) - but, hey in the mid 70's and heading off into the '80s, it was the THING to do - either have shoe polish, or the "sinful" opaque tape.

I opted for the shoe polish since I loathed opaque tape.

I remember seeing many an amateur ran booths with that trusty bottle of the Kiwi Nurses White Shoe Polish on the makeup bench ready to be used time after time.

And still to this day, once in a great while, I still come across shoe polished prints which I now clean that stuff off since it was put on so gaudy. But this practice is getting very rare to see nowdays. Most have switched over to "Zebra", and the some still use yellow opaque.

Gone is that horrible, gooey white opaque that would goo up everything in sight. What a mess to clean that stuff off the film rolls!

(LOL!)

-Monte

Posted by Rick Raskin (Member # 1561) on 02-19-2005, 03:12 PM:

quote:
Monte Fullmer: "...but, hey in the mid 70's and heading off into the '80s, it was the THING to do ..."

Ya gotta remember us OFs geezin' out about when big reels meant 3 2000' reels splice together on a 6000' reel. After all, you could run a show with only one or two changeovers. For some OFs it meant plenty of extra time to sleep.

(OF = Old Fart)

...Rick

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 02-19-2005, 03:33 PM:

I never used it however I will admit I used to use tiny white avery dots and blooped the soundtack and marked the reel changes with them. I just coverd them with the splicing tape and punched holes in any that overlaped the sprockets. Worked great and really didn't effect the picture so long as you didn't put it on both sides. But if you had to use shoe polish or what ever why did you have to have so much on the film. 2 feet come on how about 3 inches.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 02-19-2005, 04:21 PM:

quote: Darryl Spicer
2 feet come on how about 3 inches.

I remember when we converted a 2k house to a 6k house by making our own 6k reel arms. using lag extention bolts to raise up the upper magazine frame, and to lower the lower magazine frame, made up new pulley belts. As for rewinding, it was using the Neumade hand cranks on the bench being raised the same way. I also had to retime the lamphouse carbon feed motors to take the three reel run a bit, but got that easily accomplished

LOL - We "OF's" needed to see where the splice was at.

'sides, 2ft was the result of a good clean swipe across the edge with one stroke of the arm without stopping. I made shoepolishing a work of "art" - like an artist.

I held the bottle a certain way so that the sponge applicator was at the right angle towards the surface of the film to where I can actually "guide" that applicance across the film in one stroke of the arm.

..have to show you how I used to do this sometime...it was pretty slick to do.
(lol)

-Monte

-Monte

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 02-19-2005, 08:30 PM:

So far off topic, in fact, that I'm locking it. Talk about your crappy film handling practices in the FHF. Just don't start a new thread.