Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Would you hire??

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Posted by Don Cross (Member # 2980) on 02-25-2005, 10:03 PM:

Would you hire- Someone who walked off of a job without giving notice?

This person has an incredible resume; which has already checked out thoroughly. The same can be said for their level of education and their references.

They only have a few months of theater experience, and was hired on as a management trainee. They have impressive experience in most of the areas of theater operations such as: box office, concessions, stock & inventory control, etc. They were also partially trained for projection, but. It appears as though the history of their other management team members seems to have a bit of a problem effectively training.

This person also has a proven track record and history of properly managing other retain applications, and even their own self employed company. The person clearly stated that they regreted walking off the job without giving the proper amount of notice. Also that they had never done anything like this before or would never want to do it again.

My present standpoint on the issue is- I agree the theater that they walked away from is indeed improperly managed. I'd have to put most of the fault of the issue in the former theater- but still let some of it remain with the employee who walked.

Would it be too much of a gamble to hire this person, given the fact that there last position (in a theater) was a job they walked away from? I'd presently consider hiring this employee as being a good risk or gamble. Given the above issue would you support or disagree.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 02-25-2005, 10:10 PM:

IMHO, it's a judgement call. They are evidently being very upfront about the situation at the previous (poorly managed) theatre, so it could just have gotten to the point of "take this job and shove it". If it was a single incident, and the work record is otherwise really good, it could work out (assuming your theatre is well managed and employees enjoy working for you).

Posted by David Buckley (Member # 2600) on 02-25-2005, 10:45 PM:

In my opinion, the fact they walked out of (what you describe as) an improperly managed theater is a plus. Lesser folk would stay. Hire him, hire him quickly, he may have integrity.

Then note what Brad has said on the Uptown theatre thread about staff and how to treat them.

If he walks out on you, you'll know your theatre is bust too :-)

In my experience, bad management is far more prevalent than bad staff.

Posted by Jason M Miller (Member # 2597) on 02-25-2005, 11:11 PM:

I would probably would like to see his application before I made a decision but from what I had read, I would hire him. Yes it is bad he just walked off the job, but the point is, that he regretted it and probably will not do it again. But of course it is your decision.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-25-2005, 11:28 PM:

Which chain did he leave? Which theatre? Have you checked the referance at the theatre, or are you taking his word for how the events transpired?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-25-2005, 11:45 PM:

Checking with the previous theater won't do much good. Most places won't permit from a legal standpoint to be able to speak negatively of any previous employee, and most managers have the attitude that they have done no wrong, even if they did treat the guy like shit to the point of him walking out.

Knowing only what I know, I would give the guy a shot. Ultimately you're going to have to trust your gut instinct.

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 02-26-2005, 12:20 AM:

If this person in presently employed the decision maker for me would be what they put for "when can you start employment with us".

If they put after two weeks notice I would hire this person.

If they put A.S.A.P and they are employed I would be hesitant of hiring them.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 02-26-2005, 12:22 AM:

Define "Walked off the job."

Did the guy walk out the door in the middle of a shift?
In that case I would NOT hire. That means the guy is likely to be a hothead. He'll make rash decisions. He'll do things that get himself (and you) into trouble without thinking of the consequences first.

Did the guy just not show up for work one day?
This means about the same as above but not as severe. Maybe he WAS justified in not showing up but shows a lack of judgement. I wouldn't rule him out in a situation like this but I'd be thinking about it.

Did the guy finish a sift, turn in his keys and uniform then say, "I quit."??
This shows that the guy has at least SOME sense of responsibility. Maybe not the best judgement in the world but at least he finished out the day before quitting. If the reasons are good I wouldn't rule him out.

Is your state an "Employment at Will" juristdiction or does his former employer have an "Employment at Will" clause in their application/employee policies? (And, YOU, for that matter.)
In this case I don't think you can hold it against him unless it was an egregious circumstance like leaving in the middle of a shift.

Finally, was there some tension between him and the former employer? If there was, I'd try to get to the bottom of it if I could. If the former employer was making life difficult for him he might have been justified in walking out. I know a woman who started working as an accountant at a firm that tried to force her to "cook the books". She didn't want any part of it so she finished out her shift and quit. She hadn't been working there for a week. What would YOU have don in her place?

If the guy has a good explanation and doesn't have any other black marks on his record I'd hire him on an explicit trial basis. (Most states have a trial period for new hires anyway, don't they?)

Posted by Don Cross (Member # 2980) on 02-26-2005, 02:16 AM:

I double checked and verified all of the statements that were made by the employee that walked out- in mid shift, after turning in his keys, and ever so quietly walking out the door in disappointment. It appears as though he has a very well documented case on his side. He made every effort to resolve and negotiate tactfully.

This person really puts some pride into his work. After some more checking I've discovered that he's never been late for work, and has only missed two days in his entire work history- one due to a root canal. He was obviously very saddened (is that a word?) by his inability to resolve this particular puzzle.

Besides this one single instance, he has every indication of always acting very responsibly. He's a married father, a homeowner, and likes not much more than to put in a hard days work. He's giving me every impression that he is interested in long term career goals.

From all of the information I've gathered so far: He definately doesn't appear to be a hothead. He clearly thinks through all of his decisions like an expert chess player. He always appears to be one step ahead and bases most of decision making upon whats refered to as multiple perspective thinking such as- I wonder what party b and c would think of this move.

From every indication he was actually dodging any further conflict. He may have actually been making a better judegement call by leaving. Theres a very good probability he may have been stuck in a no win type of situatation.

He tactfully appears to have wanted to make it a better place by occasionally offering a few suggestions here and there. The existing management at the place he left are all intent at keeping it their way or the...

Some more about his former theater chain: They've been through four managers within a years time at just one theater unit. Most of the employees openly complain that there isn't adequate training and even *from the employees perspective* no adequate supervision?!?

Ironically the present general manager has already basically lost two of his theaters, and is looking to get rid of a third. All of those losses due to incredibly poor customer service. The presentation at all of the chains theaters are literally the worst I've seen. They make a first run movie thats only had a handfull of showings look as though its a second run facility.

There are three different competing chains that are already taking advantage of this. If the present management and their ideas stay in place I'd elect to place my chips on the bet that they won't be around at this same time next year.

I personally don't like to see any type of business fail. But, based on what I've been observing lately (especially with this employee walking out the door) this small theater chain might be well beyond repair. Very sad...

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 02-26-2005, 02:33 PM:

The company I work for does not require notice. Given what you have posted I'd hire him.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-26-2005, 03:09 PM:

I think generally, you have answered your own question since you have been politely defending him. In this day/age, he sounds like a 'gold mine.' I'd hire him.

Many years ago, I was in one of those 'chain' eyeglass centers. It had just opened, and I was in getting a new pair of glasses. A few feet away, the manager was training a new employee (a young girl.)

Manager: So, you should great the customer, smile and say ....
Girl: Sometimes I don't feel like smiling.
Manager: Well, um, yes, but you should be friendly and say...
Girl: I don't want to be his friend.
Manager: OK, but we want to make the customer feel good about comming here...
Girl: Well, somedays I'm just not in a good mood, you know? I mean, I do my job. If I'm in a bad mood I'm not gonna be rude, but I'm not gonna be all friendly-like. Sometimes I'm in a good mood, sometimes I'm not. That's just the way it is.
Manager: Yes, I understand, but....

I'm not making this up. I don't know why the manager put up with her, but he did, for the whole 1/2 hour or so I was there.

Posted by Don Cross (Member # 2980) on 02-26-2005, 04:36 PM:

Note that I can't pretend to be a lawyer, and also don't even want to appear to be giving any type of legal advice, but...

Any contract is only valid if it is reasonable. It would have to be reasonable in the eyes of a mediator, a magistrate, a judge, or even a jury. If it is an unreasonable contract; it can be declared as invalid. There are also considerable differences between the types of contracts. Theres a difference between something such as falling behind on a loan, and falling behind in the money that one owes the internal revenue service.
Although technically the above mentioned items are both almost identical contractural violations.

Outside of any type of government position, a private employer cannot reuire you to give notice. This is America, and one is (basically) free to both come and go as they please, and also to switch jobs/careers at will.

Not to get off of the thread topic, but heres another law which is rather frequently broken by most employers. Some employers have the wrong impression that it may be alriht to withhold en amployees paycheck for failre to retun a uniform- or also if they may have been caught stealing.

If an employer wants to try to attempt this one then the employer is actually in violation of federal law- valid in all fifty (plus) states. This falls under an act similar to: judge, jury, and execution. More specifically- no one individual or entity may impose or withold anything of value against another without due and proper cause. So unless you also happen to be a judge or a magistrate- you may elect not to try that one.

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 02-26-2005, 05:18 PM:

quote: Don Cross
Theres a difference between something such as falling behind on a loan, and falling behind in the money that one owes the internal revenue service.
Although technically the above mentioned items are both almost identical contractural violations.

except that, while the first one is a contractural violation, the second one is not.

carl

Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 02-26-2005, 09:21 PM:

quote: Carl Martin
except that, while the first one is a contractural violation, the second one is not.

Hume would disagree.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-26-2005, 09:39 PM:

Don, if you do not hire this guy, you will be BANNED.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 02-26-2005, 11:55 PM:

I'd hire them.
As an employee who didn't give notice at one of his theater positions, I can say it doesn't make them a bad employee. Especially if the the management had it coming.
One of the best employees I've ever seen nearly walked off the job one day because of the poor management.
From what you say they sound like a good prospect.

Posted by William Hooper (Member # 71) on 02-28-2005, 03:41 AM:

If the rest of his resume looks good, I'd say hire him.

I can't count the number of times I've been in a place of business where a manager with a personality problem has been in earshot humiliating employees, threatening them, telling them to do unsafe or stupid things, etc., & I've thought, "You really should leave right now. Just stop & walk out the door."

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 02-28-2005, 12:42 PM:

Glad to see some of you would hire one of us "hot heads" in this day and age. Because I don't suffer fools well I have that reputation. Thanks to today's chicken-shit HR practices, people like me are unhireable in today's corporate America. Which is fine. Yes, I have walked off of a few jobs over the years. For better or worse I will be an independent free-lancer, or part-time teacher, or overseas contractor for the rest of my days.

Posted by Paul Mayer (Member # 355) on 02-28-2005, 12:46 PM:

Oops, double post. Moderators please delete.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-28-2005, 01:38 PM:

I don't see the problem with one who quits abruptly, as long as there is a good reason for it. If a manager asked an employee to intentionally falsify boxoffice or inventory records, then it is (in my mind) the _duty_ of that employee to quit immediately, rather than willingly particpate in theft. The same goes for any employee who is expected to do anything else that would be unsafe, unethical, or illegal.

I agree that it would be bad form for an employee to fail to give notice before quitting because a better job opportunity became available, but quitting a job without notice on principle would be a positive factor to me (due to the fact that it demonstrates that the employee is able to think for himself and has the guts to act on his thoughts). As long as the individual was an "at will" employee and didn't violate any contract or agreement by leaving, and as long as the reasons for leaving are valid, then I see no reason not to hire an otherwise good candidate for that reason.

Posted by Greg Pauley (Member # 503) on 02-28-2005, 02:47 PM:

Something is not right!

The theatre Don is talking about is obviously one of our theatres (Park Place Stadium Cinemas) in Charleston, WV. Our company GHTC Theatres has been doing business in the Huntington/Charleston area since 1928 and I have been with the company for more than 30 years. I have been wondering for a while who is this Don Cross guy since I know most of the theatre people in this area.

Whenever I read this post, it got me wondering......Is Don really Don!

I spoke with the GM of the Park Place and found out that one of our trainees had quit and walked off the job Friday night around 10:16 p.m. Don must really be quick since he posted his first post at 11:03 p.m. on the same night. I guess it’s possible that the guy walked off the job and maybe drove directly to Don to apply for a job was interviewed and got all this information within 47 minutes!

Don writes at 3:16 a.m.
“I double checked and verified all of the statements that were made by the employee that walked out- in mid shift, after turning in his keys, and ever so quietly walking out the door in disappointment. It appears as though he has a very well documented case on his side. He made every effort to resolve and negotiate tactfully.”
Don has managed to get a lot of information verified in the middle of the night about this potential employee since his first posting at 11:03 p.m.

Don writes in his 3:16 a.m. post:
“This person really puts some pride into his work. After some more checking I've discovered that he's never been late for work, and has only missed two days in his entire work history- one due to a root canal. He was obviously very saddened (is that a word?) by his inability to resolve this particular puzzle.”
Wow. Don has surely been able to get a lot of detail information about this guy right down to the amount of work missed. How could Don check all of this only after 5 hours since the guy walked off the job and in the middle of the night? You gotta love the root canal comment.

Don writes in his 3:16 a.m. post:
“From all of the information I've gathered so far: He definately doesn't appear to be a hothead. He clearly thinks through all of his decisions like an expert chess player. He always appears to be one step ahead and bases most of decision making upon whats refered to as multiple perspective thinking such as- I wonder what party b and c would think of this move.”
Again, Don has managed to dig deep into the psychic of this potential employee. All of this after only 5 hours since the guy had walked off the job and in the middle of the night. How does Don know ” he thinks through all his decision like an expert chest player.” Now that’s some expert interviewing.

After reading some of Don’s previous post I found that Don and our ex-employee share some of the same interest. They are both married with a family, both are the same age, both have past retail experience and have owned their own business in the past. They also share an interest in photography and computers. Don previous post talks about Pittsburgh area and the ex-employee claims he worked and went to school in the Pittsburgh area. Don became a member of this forum around the same time this ex-employee was ran thru our projection training program and was told about this site. This might explain how Don can relate to our ex-employee in such a short period of time. NOT! There are only two theatres in the Charleston area and neither one has a Don Cross in management nor for that matter, working for them in any position.

I don’t think Don is really Don........ I don’t think Don is really an employer looking to hire this person........... No, I think Don is really Ron (won’t list his last name) the ex-employee who walked off the job!!! (This reminds me of the ending of Tootsie.)

This would almost be funny but for the fact that the guy is on here pretending to be something that he is not and lying about our company. I am glad that this guy quit with or without a notice if he’s the kind of person that would makeup this story for some kind of revenge. Ron-Don was hired as a trainee, but when it became clear that he didn’t have the abilities we decided to give him a shot in the booth instead of cutting him loose. He was still training whenever he decided to quit for the second time. The GM made a mistake by letting him come back after the first time.

I apologize to the members for bringing this guy to this site, but I didn’t think he was going to lie about who he was and inflate just about everything he talked about in his previous posts.

Greg Pauley
General Manager
GHTC Theatres
304-523-0185

Posted by Don Cross (Member # 2980) on 02-28-2005, 02:48 PM:

Now darn Joe, that almost ruined my entire day.

Thats almost like taking candy from a baby.

Could that also be viewed as the opposite of the Focker method??
I usually like to live a nice balanced life; I'm used to being fockerized.

Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 02-28-2005, 03:28 PM:

I don't know what's going on, but it gave me goosebumps! [eyes]

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 02-28-2005, 03:30 PM:

looks like Don = BUSTED!
Oh SNAP!

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-28-2005, 04:32 PM:

Something tells me we won't be seeing Don/Ron around here anymore... So much for his lecturing us all on corporate responsibility...

Bye Bye Don...

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 02-28-2005, 04:36 PM:

Would I hire?

DEFINITELY NOT!!!

Posted by Russ Kress (Member # 461) on 02-28-2005, 05:14 PM:

Well said Greg!

I wonder why no one ever share this one with them:

Here's the story:

It's a busy Saturday night and the last show of a movie containing the usual Saturday night teenaged crowd (read: loud) is letting out. Park Place management has designated one particular rocket scientist to guard the corridor that accesses four other auditoriums in order to prevent the teenagers from crossing over into other films and disturbing other patrons. Please note that the theatre also has additional restroom facilities in this corridor. The NASA cadet is instructed that if he is in doubt of where a particular patron belonged, he could ask them to produce their ticket stub for verification.

Here's where it gets tricky for our hero:

A woman in her mid forties approaches him with a toddler in tow. The toddler is repeating over and over "Mommy! I gotta go!!" Mom explains to our cadet that the main restroom is full (likely the truth since a large auditorium has just let out) and that she needs to get to the other one. Our nameless hero, after checking her stubs, informs her that she will have to return to the other restrooms and wait in line.

Needless to say, the general manager (yours truly), after (deservedly) enduring one of the most spectacular butt chewings he had ever received from a customer, had to apologize while writing enough passes to cover this woman and approximately the next three generations of her family in order to keep a loyal customer coming back.

A written list of theatre policies and procedures is given to every new employee in the form of our employee handbook. This document expressly authorizes any employee to bend or break any policy or procedure neccesary in order to tend to a customer with a legitimate problem (if management cannot be contacted within 60 seconds) without fear of getting busted for it. If there was a better solution, this would be conveyed to the employee in a positive manner. Bottom line, the customer is happy and the employee either did perfectly or at the very least, learned something new.

Then there's the time he got into a public argument with an employee prompting her to squirt him with Windex.....

My current booth manager said it best: "Russ, you really have to learn how to say 'you're fired'".

I LOVE THIS BUSINESS!! It is most certainly never boring!

Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 02-28-2005, 05:51 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
Bye Bye Don...

Actually, he's posted quite a few things since he's been outted. (These posts occured after his last post above.) Dosen't seem to bother him.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 02-28-2005, 06:08 PM:

I don't thikn he will be posting once Brad finds out about the alias...

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2005, 08:31 AM:

We do the best we can to try and ensure that people on here are legit and 99% of the time we succeed. Every once in awhile some twat comes along though... [Roll Eyes]

"Don" - if you are REALLY who you claim you are, email me and I will arrange for you to provide proof. Otherwise, it will be clear that Greg's assertation of the situation is correct.

If anyone knows specifically who this person is, feel free to email me privately and I will ASSURE confidentiality of whoever gave me the info. I will then post it here after verifying it. Until then, thread closed.