This is topic Intermission music performing rights in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-01-2005, 11:48 PM:
 
Anyone here paying the fees to ASCAP/BMI/SESAC so they can play whatever they want in the lobby and auditoriums during intermission? If so, what is the cost? Is it dependent upon the number of screens? (I would think so.) Do services such as Sirius offer a monthly fee for the programming with licensing fees included?

Or is everyone using those infernal MovieTunes cds?
 

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Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 03-02-2005, 12:34 AM:
 
I know XM offers a flat rate business service for $27.95/month. According to the website, this includes all license fees paid. For more info, go to the XM link below. I've had XM for 1 1/2 years and absolutely love it. They're raising the basic rate in April, but it's still worth the subscription fee.

The Cinemagic channel features movie soundtracks and audio clips. I'd imagine this would be great for intermission music. Also, there are many different options during the holidays that would be ideal for intermission music. I've often thought this business service would be great for an individually owned theatre.

http://www.xmradio.com/commercial/index.jsp
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-02-2005, 01:28 AM:
 
If you look at the XM website, it says the commercial account cannot be used at places that charge admission to get in. I don't quite understand the reason for this, but it would effectively eliminate cinema applications unless you let people into the lobby without necessarily buying a ticket, and then only play the XM in the lobby. (Or, just don't tell them you're a theatre when you sign up!)

Also, they are offering a "lock in" the old rates for a year promo if you act before the beginnning of April.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-02-2005, 01:36 AM:
 

quote: Mike Blakesley

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If you look at the XM website, it says the commercial account cannot be used at places that charge admission to get in

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Brad's original question has not been answered yet.

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whoops - did we get a bit carried away with this topic. (lol)

That is what XMRadio told our people that they are paying the ASCAP/BMI fees for the music to be broadcast in a public area.

-Monte
 

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Posted by Kenny Thies (Member # 1551) on 03-02-2005, 05:18 PM:
 
Hi everyone,

I know Sirius offers a business plan for $24.99 a month. We do on screen advertising, and it was my plan to contact one of the locally owned electronic stores here in town to see if they would want to do a swap out. They pay for all the equipment (receiver & antenna), install it and pay the monthly subscription fees for us, and we will advertise on our screens (slide presentation) that they install and sell Sirius Radio. I just haven't had the time to go over and talk to them yet. I'm leaning towards Siruis because I own stock in the company. Sirius pays for all the license rights for you to play in a public area.

Kenny
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 03-04-2005, 08:44 PM:
 
Since a certain single screen theater in the Kansas City area plays what they want and pay nothing, there are probably many other that do the same. I'm in the radio broadcast industry (back again) and know that radio stations have to report what they play once a year usually in the form of a 1 or 2 week sample play list. So, if you don't report you don't pay anything, unless someone reports you
There is available, music on CD that you pay a one time fee for and can use without any futher fees. You might do an internet search for such a thing. here's what I found.
Royalty Free Music
Another Music Service
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-04-2005, 09:39 PM:
 
We pay an annual fee, and I was all for only paying ASCAP -- they've got enough music to keep you in new intermission and lobby music till 2100. If you want total freedom to play ANYTHING your heart desires without worrying, is this a BMI cut, then pay both, but it is probably not necessary. If prechance a BMI cut gets through, well, someone from BMI has got to be sitting in your theatre, know it's a cut they license and know that you don't have a blanket license (about the same odds as you winning the lottery). And unless you want to play gospel music, there is no reason at all for buying SESAC because that's all they license.

I don't have actual yearly costs but they should be easily enough found on the websites. If they are not, email me and I will get the info. I am almost sure it is based on the number of patrons you actually count over a given time period, not necessarily the number of seats.

Also, they may have different structures for theatrical and non-theatrical venues. We might get a break because we are a performing arts center.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-04-2005, 10:29 PM:
 
The standard fee from ASCAP/BMI/SESAC for colleges and universities is about $0.30/student/year for each of ASCAP and BMI, and about $0.10/student/year for SESAC. I don't know what the standard is for other kinds of entities.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Dan Chilton (Member # 2288) on 03-08-2005, 04:03 PM:
 
We bypass the entire ASCAP/BMI/SESAC hooplah by only playing local bands. They sign a release that allows their music to be played at our theater, and we flash a pre-show slide that says something like "You're currently listening to LOCAL BAND's newest album, LOCAL BAND'S ALBUM. If you like what you hear, please visit the Cinebar for more information." We always keep a few copies of the CD on hand and switch up the bands quite regularly. Keeps it local AND free!
 

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Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-09-2005, 12:01 AM:
 
Hey this is long but worth reading...When I was a sound contractor installing background music system in offices, restaurants, I would sale the equipment & install it, the music was supplied by a music company. They contracted a music supply company such as Muzack, LifeTime Music, & DMX...these companies would use a special FM receiver that only picked up their signal, this would be broadcast as a sub carrier signal from a local high power radio station. Now they are satellite..all the compancies was about the same price $30-65.00 per month depending on the music package, some would supplied the receiver, some the customer had to buy...the music supply company would pay the BMI & ASCAP fees, only charge the customer a monthly music service package price with a 2-5yr contract. This was the way to go without any worry from ASCAP/BMI...I once was hired by ASCAP to go to a Dairy Queen restaurant,(about 60 miles from HoustonTX) they brought lunch we listen to 10 songs played over their speakers, they asked three questions..(1. is the speaker being use a home type or a commercial in-ceiling speakers ? answer was yes.. commercial...(2. is there more than two speaker in the reastuarant ??...answer was yes, 6-inceiling speakers...(3. is the music playing a CD or radio?? answer was Radio...we left, they took me back to Houston...four months later I was called into court to testify for ASCAP on what I saw & heard...but they settle out of court for $25,000.00.....ASCAP was sueing for $250,000.00...$2,500.00 per song, we listen to (10) songs playing a radio station, ASCAP been trying for two years to gewt this reataurant to sign a agreement with them to play music in a reastaurant, the reastaurant refuse, ASCAP file lawsuit for $250,000.00...settle for $25,000.00 ...just for playing a radio through more than two commercial type speakers...make you want to go Hummmmmmmmmmm
 

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Posted by Edward Jurich (Member # 1787) on 03-09-2005, 06:29 PM:
 

quote: Don Sneed

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just for playing a radio through more than two commercial type speakers...

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That is correct. That is why you go into many stores and see a radio with 2 speakers playing. It's OK to play a radio in a store through it's own speakers (attached or not). I believe the speakers cannot be installed in the ceiling or wall or behind a screen
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-09-2005, 06:44 PM:
 
How do they come up with $2500 per song? There's no way that they could legitimately claim that they "lose" $2500 per song when someone plays the radio in a Dairy Queen without paying the yearly ASCAP fee. Even if half (or more) of that amount is legal fees, it's still completely unreasonable.

I would think that a more reasonable way to determine the "value" per song would be to divide the yearly ASCAP fee by the average number of songs played per year and add legal fees on top of that. Am I completely crazy to think that $2500 per song is more than a bit unreasonable?
 

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Posted by Don Sneed (Member # 955) on 03-09-2005, 07:51 PM:
 
Think how shock I was to find out I was a paid witness to $2500.00 per songs & listen to 10...but they settle out of court prior to me getting to courthouse for $25,000.00...what is shocking today is this all happen in 1989 or 1990...no telling what music laws in effect today. Back in late 80's ASCAP in Houston went to theatres demanding their fee's , I know two theatre chains argued if they are paying the ASCAP/BMI fee's as stated on the CD labels, then why do they have to pay again...to make a long story short, both chains pulled their CD/cassette player & did not play intermittion music...the larger chains in Houston was going through a background music supplier service...now remember this was background music, foreground music was higher in price, both ASCAP/BMI, & music suppliers...one of those things that make you go Hummmmmmmm...what a
 

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Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 09-15-2007, 07:18 PM:
 

It has been 919 days since the last post.

 

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Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 09-15-2007, 07:18 PM:
 
Sorry to revive this thread after so long, but I would really like to find out how much the licensing fees are to do what Brad mentioned in the original post. We have just switched to ghastly horrible MovieTunes because our CEO had a friend who got pinched by BMI and ASCAP, and as much as I've always hated MovieTunes as a filmgoer, I hate subjecting my customers to it even more.
 

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Posted by Tim Reed (Member # 137) on 09-19-2007, 07:13 PM:
 
Contract Jennifer Pan to write you some royalty-free music.
 

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Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 09-20-2007, 11:19 PM:
 
I have an ASCAP license for my single screen theatre. It is based on seat count, although I don't remember how that's broken down. I just know that for our 557 seats it costs us $198.00 per year.I would assume that a multi screen theatre would pay the appropriate rate based on seat count of each auditorium.
 

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Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 09-21-2007, 03:36 PM:
 
Does 'seat count' just mean the number of seats in the auditorium (whether occupied or not), or the number of seats that have been sold for a particular performance?

I've heard a mixture of non-sync intermission music in cinemas I've been to. Some, like the Leeds Light, just play CDs of commercially available music. Others seem to play more 'ambient' music, often with no lyrics - perhaps these are MovieTunes CDs?
I also remember a while ago when they used to just play a local radio station through the speakers during an intermission
 

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Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 09-21-2007, 10:38 PM:
 
Seat count is the total number of seats that exist, regardless of how many tickets are sold.
 

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Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 09-21-2007, 11:05 PM:
 
Again, we shouldn't talk about ASSCRAP/B.M.(I) as if it is one entity. They are separate and each has enough song titles to last you your entire lifetime before you would ever have to start from the beginning of the list. If you HAVE to go into contract to get intermission music, there is no reason under the sun why you would need to pay BOTH of these thug extortionists. Pick one and then just make playlists of their tunes. If you pick light classical music, the cuts are much longer and you don't have to do as much work getting a good servicable list together.

So far they haven't gotten rid of the "One Protection Copy" right, so when you buy the CDs, you can just burn a copy with only the tunes of the one you got in bed with. The bitch is that ASSCRAP and B.M.(I) tunes are interwoven on most CDs so you can't just play an "ASCAP disc" or a "BMI disc".....you will need to burn a CD with only the tunes licensed by the company with which you have arranged to be dry-humped by. Luckily copying once is still legal under the one copy rule.

BTW, where is all that arbitrary elephant excrement written down -- you know, the stuff about only two speakers but not in the ceiling....etc.? How do they get away with making up THAT nonsense? I mean, when Gino Tutifraluti buys a CD to play in his pizza parlor, where does it say he is allowed to play it thru 2 speakers but he gets a $25,000 fine if he plays it thru 3 speakers? Is that on the label somewhere? Does he get to know that BEFORE he presses the play button on his CD or does he find out only when Don shows up with Mr. ASSCRAP and they write him up for having six speakers?

All I know is, if they asked me to be a snitch witness, I would have told them, sure I recognize those songs, but you gotta pay me 30% of whatever the settlement comes to or my memory is likely going to become VERY foggy on the witness stand when it comes time to remember the titles of the 10 songs I heard months ago in a pizza parlor.
 

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