Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Do one or two screen theaters actually make money?

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Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 08-11-2005, 11:23 PM:

I was just curious, knowing there are still plenty of these types of theaters around, how many actually make money. The smallest theater I've ever worked at was a 6 plex. I've been to many 1 or 2 screen theaters in my life..as a kid...but now with the googleplex theaters out now, can the little guy survive? Anyone working a current run 1 or 2 screen house that knows how much your pulling in?? Just something I've been curious about for a while now.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 08-12-2005, 12:08 AM:

You wont get rich but can make a living. I think most of us have other businesses we own or jobs we work at. If someone had to mortgage a full purchase price of a single screen theatre they might have a pretty tough go at it. Most of us do it because we love the business, not to get rich.

We own two furniture stores and I am a licensed motorcycle mechanic on the side.

As far as your last question, Im not sure you'll get much response on what the theatre takes in on a public forum.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-12-2005, 01:05 AM:

I'm in the same situation as Adam. I have a day job at my family's business, which is a retail store (auto parts and car stereo/CDs). While I enjoy my job, I look forward every day to going to the theatre.

The theatre makes enough money that we've been able to remodel it quite nicely over the years. It will celebrate its 75th anniversary next month.

Posted by Chase Hanson (Member # 2779) on 08-12-2005, 02:30 AM:

It always seemed like the live or die factor for most single or doubles I have seen has been booking.

Posted by Dieter Depypere (Member # 3184) on 08-12-2005, 04:13 AM:

It depends on the geographical issues. If you build your single sreen next to a megaplex you won't make a lot of money. But if you are the only theater in a big area (which is well populated too) then you make a lot more money.

Kino Drobollach (where I am currently working in) is a single screen theater which is only one mile away from a 6 plex. This results in a low costumer amount (around 20 a day for 2 shows or even less - sometimes shows are abandonned due to the fact that no one arrives).

We had a great luck with "Herbie fully loaded" When this one came out we were the only theater in Carinthia playing this movie - guess what - there were a lot of costumers.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 08-12-2005, 06:32 AM:

Dieter,

You have experienced a wonderful opportunity. The folks who had to come to your theatre to see the film have now "DISCOVERED" you. In the future, they might return regularly since they now know what your theatre is like and how you present a great show for them.

KEN

Posted by Dave Macaulay (Member # 813) on 08-12-2005, 10:37 AM:

A business is unlikely to survive if it loses money. There are a few cinemas we deal with that are run as a hobby for the owner or at a loss subsidized by the community or a service club in small isolated towns. In most markets competing directly with the majors is a path to bankruptcy.
In Toronto there are several single screen houses that are apparently doing OK. They all cater to niche markets - in a smaller city this likely isn't practical. There's a "chain" Festival Cinemas of 5 rep houses that books 2 second run or classic films per day (14 films a week in each booth!) and a few independent first-run releases. There's one independent rep house as well, the Bloor Cinema... formerly part of the Festival group. We also have several ethnic cinemas - Toronto has a huge ethnic population, probably 99% of immigrants to Canada start out here.
In smaller cities independent cinemas can do pretty well, there's usually a chain multi within an hour's drive but first run product is available and lots of folks will avoid the drive if your presentation is decent. Trying to keep people coming back with worn out seats, smelly dilapidated auditoria, dirty screens, low light levels, crappy ancient lenses, and Distorto-Pathetic® mono sound is not going to work.
We often have folks come in with a dream about some town's shuttered movie palace with "all the equipment still in place", wanting to resurrect it. Unfortunately even if you don't expect an income and only hope to operate at no loss the economics are unfavorable.

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 08-12-2005, 04:37 PM:

I have made a comfortable living from my small town (10,000 pop.) single screen subrun historic (1920) theatre for the past 35 years. I am also able to maintain it in very good condition as well. Granted, I am a booker for a dozen screens, mostly singles like mine, and I deliver film to 6 theatres as well. If I didn't have that extra income I couldn't maintain my current standard of living, but if you back out that income, I could still make a decent living from the theatre building income alone. I say "theatre building" as there are two stores and two apartments that bring in income as well. I also rent the theatre out for special programing during normally dark hours, that helps the bottom line too. It's all part of the theatre business. Most theatres built back in the 20s and 30s always had retail, commercial or housing rental income units as part of the overall business plan. That is something that is seldom ever done today as the theatre operating company usually only rents the theatre portion of the center where the cinema is located.

I must admit that I know of no other single screen theatres in Pennsylvania that support the owner completely, but mine is an example that it can be done. Running a theatre part time doesn't usually give the proprietor enough time to adequately promote the business to the extent that needs to be done to make it really successful.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 08-12-2005, 06:52 PM:

One theatre chain, I believe it is Cinema World, builds a nice apartment into the booth of their new theatres that the theatre manager gets to live in as a fringe "benefit." I don't know if I would like living in my building though ... talk about no time off ... knock on the door ... there's a brainwrap on #5.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 08-12-2005, 07:04 PM:

Well, if they paid as much as other chains, I think I could live with that chance of interrutption for free rent, utilites and not having to spend money on gas to go to work.

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 08-13-2005, 09:06 PM:

Thats seems like too much of a liability. Clearly that type of living arrangement is designed for a young single person probably right out of college. Middle to late 20's maybe. What happens if you got a total slob living there and catches the place on fire, or some hornball who is banging his 16 year old concession wench after hours. I know those are two plausible situations even without the apartment facility, but making it available just enhances the likelihood something inappropriate would happen.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-14-2005, 12:21 AM:

I think old theatres often had an apartment (or apartments) built in. There are two of them in our neck of the woods. The apartments are laid out like a trailer house (long and narrow) and are behind the booth on the street side of the building. Neither is used for projectionists though -- in one town, the apartment is rented to an elderly guy, and the other one is used when the non-resident owners are in town.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 08-14-2005, 05:00 AM:

You are apparently asking the question from a metro market point of view. A one or two screen house will do OK if it is located in a rural or small "no competition" market. Some one or two screen houses will make it in a metro area if they don't play what everyone else is playing.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 08-14-2005, 10:53 AM:

There are so many factors here that it is hard to come up with a rule of thumb that I would bet my life savings on.

The Uptown in DC, a single screen theatre, does VERY well. Had the theatre ever lost its high-end feel I don't think it would have done as well in this century. Also, being part of a chain that can force bookings or even get out of bookings give it power that an indy running the same single screen would not have had. I remember one booking where the distributor was told that the could have the Uptown for 2-weeks only, take it or leave it (the distributor took it) is a rare position to be in.

The Senator in Baltimore has to fight tooth and nail for everything it has. It is independently owned and is much more hands on.

Both the Senator and the Uptown have survived (in the past, at least) as "presenation" houses their whole 70+ year exisitances. If someone had twined these theatres back when it was popular to do...I don't think either would exist today. Note, the Senator people have also taken on a twin theatre in Baltimore (the Rotunda) to augment their operation.

We've heard Richard talk of his marvelous theatre, the Roxy and I'm sure it exists due to its "hands on" operation...but in sub-run.

We have a theatre that we occasionally service, the Watson in Watsontown, PA that probably just holds its own but the family that runs it actively participates in its operation, have added an adjoining ice creame shop and does have an apartment rented.

One thing when judging singles is that you have to think in year-to-year terms (true in any movie theatre business but it is more dramatic in a single). You hope that the product in the good times will allow you to coast (or more truthfully, fall a bit back) in the slow times. The P/L columns will most definately be filled on both sides.

Personally, I would rather have a single augment my chain than depend on it supporting the entire business.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-14-2005, 11:20 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
You hope that the product in the good times will allow you to coast (or more truthfully, fall a bit back) in the slow times.

Very true. One excellent week can make up for a lot of bad weeks. I guess it's the same in the industry at large, but maybe the effect is more dramatic in small situations.

I remember a 3 month period about 8 or 9 years ago where I was genuinely getting worried... bills were getting stacked up and I was seriously thinking about maybe going to the bank and refinancing ... and then Christmas happened, with some good kid movie, we were packed all weekend, and everything was back to normal after that. That's when I learned that the roof isn't necessarily caving in when there is the occasional slump.

Posted by Brian D. Nelson (Member # 3277) on 08-14-2005, 11:46 AM:

quote: Steve Guttag
You hope that the product in the good times will allow you to coast (or more truthfully, fall a bit back) in the slow times.

This is something we have learned in our first three years to present of operating. The first two years were a bit deceptive due to the 'off season' blockbusters that generated good grosses and smoothed the cyclical slump periods out. This last year not only has the normal cycle returned but the industry is soft as well, which you all know about.

In the first year, we had to address the repairs/restorations that were long overdue and cost us a lot revenue. This theater is 78 years old and has been in non-stop use as a cinema. Previous owners/management had let some things slide. If we didn't have to attend to issues as much as we have, we could be doing a lot better. It helps that we are in a small, isolated town and have the only screen so even with a small population to draw from, we don't have to contend with direct competition from other screens.

I don't have the false optimism that we will be able to earn any substantial incomes out of it eventually but the business will carry it's own burden without much outside revenue being introduced if things keep on going the way they are.

Posted by Andrew McCrea (Member # 674) on 08-14-2005, 03:43 PM:

In Winnipeg, we've got a small "duplex" still operating (but maybe not for much longer because one theatre has to be closed in this city due to the takeover)... Its two screens, about 700 seats and its a Famous Players operating about 5 minutes from an 8-screen dollar house. I believe its the smallest theatre in the Famous Players chain.

Posted by Michael Harlow (Member # 1353) on 08-19-2005, 10:23 AM:

Andrew,

I have a single screen cinema here in the UK and I make money, not a huge amount but a profit nevertheless. I have 450 seats and of course much depends on the product, I am mainly Family / Arthouse films, first and second run.

Posted by Alex Grueneberg (Member # 2652) on 09-06-2005, 09:24 PM:

So lets say there are two theaters each four screens in a very well populated area. Chicago for example. The theaters are 3 blocks apart. One is corporate (Loews) running all digital, the other is owned by a local small chain who just closed a theater farther downtown. The Loews house looks nice from the outside. Bright marquee, nice clean lobby however has all sorts of projection and presentation problems. While the though more run down much older equipped local house runs smooth (one dts theater), with out scratched or damaged prints. The local house was once a one screen, and is now a 4. It was split up in '84. The Loews house was built in the 90s, in somewhat of a small mall complex.

Does the local older house have a chance?