Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How to deal with this stafff issue?

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Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-05-2005, 11:31 AM:

We have an employee locker room for our staff to store their things while they are at work. This is also where time clock is. The rules of the locker room are simple A) this room is not to be used as a changing room B) no leaving things in the locker overnight C) must provide own lock D)no eating or drinking in the locker room.

Well the only rule they don't seem to follow is rule D. We've warned them before numerous times about no eating or drinking in there. But last night one my employees informed me there was ants crawling on the wall next to the time clock. I went down to the locker room and sure enough ants were everywhere. I then proceeded to open every single locker and 13 of them had garbage in them. One was very filthy and had half a bag of reese peieces, some popcorn, napkins, and season salt spilt everywhere. Another taco bell sauce. about another 10 lockers had caked on coke syrup, and the room stunk?

How would you deal with this? Move the time clock and not allow them to use the room? Check the room every night and if it is dirty write up every single staff member who worked that day?

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 10-05-2005, 11:42 AM:

The problem seems to be people storing food in the lockers (although they may also be eating in the room as well).

If you have enough lockers allocate each member of staff their own personal locker on the condition that no opened/perishable food is stored in the locker.

If you make it a condition of the locker usage that you have the right to search the lockers at any point (with the member of staff in question present) and disapline the staff member if their locker has inappropriate contents. Sanctions could include the removal of locker or other privaleges.

Do you provide a staff room where people can eat/store food. If a fridge is provided somebody will need to go through the contents regularly to remove expired/badly packaged food.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-05-2005, 12:01 PM:

we do not have enough lockers for everyone to have their own. We have about 45 lockers and over 60 staff.

So that is where the problem lies. Is it right to punish everyone because we can't pin point who is doing it?

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-05-2005, 12:27 PM:

How about if you have a 1-time "cleanup party", accompanied by an announcement to the entire staff that there is to be no food or drink in there, period. Put up a sign to that effect, including "If this policy is abused, locker privileges will be revoked from everyone". Something like that.

Posted by Stephen LaPadula (Member # 3050) on 10-05-2005, 12:36 PM:

Do you assign a place for your staff to eat? If they have no where to go on their break then your problem won't stop.

For our break room we assign one person per shift to make sure it's clean. This includes taking out the garbage every day, sweep, mop, organize and everything else necessary to keep the room in order. If at the end of the day the room is still a mess you have only one person to blame.

Start rotating the person in charge of cleaning that room and people will start to clean up after themselves once they all see how miserable cleaning it can be.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-05-2005, 01:07 PM:

no there is not an assigned area to eat. They are allowed to sit in a movie if they choose but if they want to eat they must sit in the lobby or eat in the receiving area.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-05-2005, 01:09 PM:

I'd rather have employees eating in the locker room than sitting around in the lobby.

Have a BIG cleanup party -- then assign a rotating employee to check the room every day and make sure it stays clean. It's a lot easier to keep a place clean.

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-05-2005, 01:38 PM:

Cut all the locks off.
Clean out all the lockers.
Put the contents in a big cardboard box. Allow the owners of the items to claim them.
Move the time clock out into the hallway.
Lock the break room door.
Let the kiddies whine about it for a week or so.

When you're damn good and ready, have a cleanout party. Scrub the room from floor to ceiling. If you can afford it give the room a fresh coat of paint. If you can't afford it, figure something out so that you can call it the "New Break Room". (Put in some chairs or something.)

Upon reopening the "New Break Room", do so with the provision that, if it's not kept clean by your standards, you WILL lock the break room again... This time PERMANENTLY!!

If anybody claims that you are over reacting to the situation, simply tell them that you have to call in the exterminator to get rid of the ants and vermin.

(Your company DOES have an exterminator, doesn't it?!)

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-05-2005, 01:53 PM:

yeah we have an exterminator but calling him in will have to be approved by our area manager, which I doubt he will.

Our lobby is massive so we don't mind them eating in the lobby on the benches. Heck I don't even mind them eating in the locker room, but they NEVER clean up after themselves.

I'm going to dicuss the situation with my complex manager before taking any drastic steps. She's been wanting to move the time clock but she was told she couldn't by our tech guys.

I'm thinking if we can't move the time clock, then locking all the lockers as punishment and not allowing them to be used for a few weeks. Or like I said checking the locker room each night and if it is dirty write up everyone who worked that day. If I do that, those who don't abuse the locker room will make sure that those who do start cleaning up.

I did this once when we had a few employees abusing the free pass policy. The minute I threatened to take away everyone's passes for 2 weeks by golly did the abuse stop.

Posted by Jeremy Fuentes (Member # 2135) on 10-05-2005, 02:01 PM:

quote: Randy Stankey
Cut all the locks off.

I agree with everything else you said, except for this part. If I was an employee of yours, especially one that didnt cause the problem, and you go destroying my property, you can believe that something of yours will be destroyed as well. This of course is me speaking from a teenagers point of view. I'm not a teenager, but if my boss were to destroy my property now, and it wasnt my fault, then I would be left with no choice than to deal with it otherwise. If its a major company, his/her superiors would definitely hear about it, causing them more stress than they have time for. I know it might seem like a small issue, its only a lock right? Well if its a small issue, simply ask me to remove the lock.

quote: Amanda Jones
I did this once when we had a few employees abusing the free pass policy. The minute I threatened to take away everyone's passes for 2 weeks by golly did the abuse stop.

That seems like the best idea in this situation. Also a table and a few chairs and a trash can in the locker room wont hurt either. I realize you dont mind having the employees eat in the lobby, but it just doesnt look good to customers. It actually might hurt the theater. "Look at that pizza they're eating! It looks good!! We should get some after the movie, it'll be cheaper than eating here!" See, not a good idea.. [Wink]

Posted by James R. Hammonds, Jr (Member # 673) on 10-05-2005, 02:25 PM:

I agree with everyone else.
Don't let them eat in the lobby.
The last place I worked didn't even want us eating in the auditoriums (auditoria?).

Your locker room sounds a lot like the break room we had, only the moved the time clock out of there and downstaris to the lobby because people were taking too much time to get from tho time clock to their jobs.

We had tables and chairs, but there were too many problems with people leaving things in their lockers for waaay too long, so what they did is sent out a memo with our checks saying that on such and such date we would no longer be allowed to leave anything in the lockers overnight.
You could lock you things up during your shift, but they reserved the right to cut off any lock that was still there at the end of the night.
That way you don't have to have permission to cut it off because you already have a policy in place.
There wasn't much you could do to make people clean up after themselves (other than locking it up or designating certain people to clean it at certain times), but our janitorial staff cleaned it up every night.

I wouldn't write up everyone that worked that day.
You don't want to punish the innocent if you can help it.

Of course we only spelled staff with 2 f's so things may be a little different for you. [Razz]

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-05-2005, 02:30 PM:

quote: James R. Hammonds, Jr
You could lock you things up during your shift, but they reserved the right to cut off any lock that was still there at the end of the night.

That is the policy since we don't have enough lockers to go around. Truth be told there is no room for table and chairs in there. Its a small room.

Thanks for pointing out my spelling mistake [thumbsup]

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-05-2005, 02:40 PM:

Am I the only one who thinks that this issue is petty? If the employees are otherwise doing their jobs and providing good customer service, I'd think that the state of the employee break room would be of little concern. (Obviously, someone needs to be assigned to clean it at this point.)

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-05-2005, 02:51 PM:

But this is not the first time this has happened and it is starting to attract bugs. I'm the only manager who feels this way but I think our employees think they are above us and just showing up for work should be thanks enough to us managers.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 10-05-2005, 05:48 PM:

This is beginning to sound like a lot of whining. Amanda are
you the boss or not? Since when does the employee have control
over the boss? If your company doesn't give a damn about their
property, maybe the Health Department will. I have seen theaters shut down for infractions you describe. Ants, roaches,
rats, vermin of all sorts (and they will appear) have no place
where the public gathers. EVERY state has health laws, and, it
may be a good idea to comply. [eyes]

Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 10-05-2005, 06:38 PM:

Maybe you should look at a private area for staff to eat, I'm sure nobody wants to eat in a public area, actually does it not look bad? The fact that you have banned eating in the locker room probably encouraged staff to 'stash' their food in the lockers in order not to get caught.

You have 60 staff and nowhere for them to eat? Thats pretty astonishing!

Posted by Randy Stankey (Member # 64) on 10-05-2005, 07:51 PM:

I have worked in several places that have locker rooms. Theaters and otherwise. NONE of them allowed employees to use their own locks on the lockers over the long term.

Two hotels I worked at, Sonesta Hotel & Prudential Sheraton, (Yes, the The Sheraton that got busted for having cameras in the locker rooms!) had full-fledged employee locker rooms. Both of those places had built-in locks on the lockers. Combinations were issued by management. They also kept master keys to all the lockers.

In high school we were allowed to bring our own locks but we had to write the combination down on a Rolodex card and give it to the secretary at the Principal's office.

At Cinemark theaters, employees are allowed to use locks on their lockers but NOT overnight. They are allowed to put their belongings in one of the cubbie holes and put a lock on it while they are on duty. When they leave the lock is to be removed and the cubbie is to be empty.

In ALL cases, if management thinks a locker needs to be opened they have the right to do so by whatever means are reasonably necessary. INCLUDING CUTTING OFF THE LOCK!

At Cinemark, I have cut locks off several lockers myself! (Always in the presence of the G.M.) Employees were SPECIFICALLY told that, if they leave locks on the lockers overnight, they WILL be cut off! The employees knew the rules. They took their chances. They lost.

There are plenty of relevant legal precedents for this action. It's common for employers to articulate the rules but it's not 100% necessary. These rules are usually in the employee handbook or posted on a sign in the employee break room... but they don't have to be. It's a HELL of a lot easier to prove your case if you DO give notice. However, it is reasonable to assume that a locker supplied by the employer remains the property of the employer and he is only allowing the employee to use them as a courtessy. The employee has no reasonable right to assume that the employer will not open those lockers if he needs to.

Extermination is a VERY good reason to open lockers!

If you wanted to by the "nice guy" you would give fair warning to all employees that lockers are to be cleaned out and left open. If, after a certain date, they are not unlocked... SNIP! SNIP!

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 10-05-2005, 08:49 PM:

quote: Randy Stankey
At Cinemark theaters, employees are allowed to use locks on their lockers but NOT overnight. They are allowed to put their belongings in one of the cubbie holes and put a lock on it while they are on duty. When they leave the lock is to be removed and the cubbie is to be empty.

That must have been a rule spacific to the theatre you worked for at the time. I have never seen it written that you had to remove your lock at night. The basic Cinemark rule has always been no personal belongings other than purses and coats were to be brought to work. Back when we used to have the bow ties and the suspenders and aprons and hats employees could use there assigned locker to store them in. Now lockers just are not used all that often.

As far as the topic goes, if there is another room to use as a break room then do that. It looks better than employees sitting out in the lobby eating their subway sandwiches in front of customers. I hate to say it but I have had to do this. Make a section in the booth the break area. It's not the best solution but sometimes it's the only option.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-06-2005, 01:23 AM:

..if rules aren't met, either write them up, reduce hours, or suspend the offenders for a week.

This will show that someone is in charge here.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-06-2005, 02:23 AM:

Luckily we have weeded out the worst of th employees who think they are above managers. One of them would get his father in every week to yell at a manager for one reason or another. Like when he was written up standing out on the loading dock talking on his cell phone he had daddy come in and yell at me for writing his son up.

I think I've come up with a way to assign lockers so to speak. Anyone who clocks in prior to 6pm is allowed use the top set of lockers and anyone who clocks in after 6pm or later can use the lower set of lockers. This will help us better when trying to determine who dirties the lockers.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-06-2005, 04:24 AM:

quote: Amanda Jones
But this is not the first time this has happened and it is starting to attract bugs. I'm the only manager who feels this way but I think our employees think they are above us and just showing up for work should be thanks enough to us managers.

If that is their attitude, then management is not out of line to take the position that their paycheck should be thanks enough and removing perks such as free movie passes for a week or so should send an important message.

The problem though seems to be that you really need a break room or area where they can eat. Make it a closing responsibilty to clean it and have the managers check it every night.

quote: Amanda Jones
Luckily we have weeded out the worst of th employees who think they are above managers. One of them would get his father in every week to yell at a manager for one reason or another. Like when he was written up standing out on the loading dock talking on his cell phone he had daddy come in and yell at me for writing his son up.

My prefered solution for this is "I'm sorry sir, but this is Johnny's job and not yours, as such, I will only discuss these matters with him. I am going to have to ask you to leave now." If he is making a scene or disrupting operations, you are not out of line terming the kid for his parents behavior and banning the whole lot from your theatre.

Amanda, remember, its YOUR operation. You must set and enforce the basic standards. Always be fair with your people, but do not hesitate to use necessary discipline.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-06-2005, 04:57 AM:

Amanda, I would like to direct you back to page 1 of this thread and ask you to please re-read Jeremy Fuentes' post. There's important and darned good information in there that I think most people are probably missing regarding employee retaliation.

Time for me to get on my soap box for a minute since I see these posts starting to head in the direction of "you're the boss, so shove it down their throats" approach.

This nonsense of "IRON FIST" style of management is ridiculous. It shows no respect toward the very employees who are on the front lines representing your company! Just as Jeremy noted, if you push and push and threaten and demand and basically treat your employees like a slave, they WILL get back at you in some manner. That may be something as simple as not upselling when you are not watching over them, or could be a bit more extreme such as urinating on your carpets, vandalizing your personal car, intentionally stealing money or screwing up inventory with the mindset that you as a manager will look bad...the list goes on and on, and anyone claiming that doesn't happen is a freakin' idiot.

Treat your employees with respect. It's all in your approach and wording. Don't TELL them to clean #8, ASK them to.

"Roger, go clean #8."
vs.
"Roger, would you please take care of cleaning #8?"

Trust me, the latter works MUCH better. Your employees will see you as someone who respects them and as a result YOU will get THEIR respect BACK and they will do a better job for you, the company and your patrons.

I cannot stress this enough...
Respect is not automatically given just because you are a manager.
Respect is EARNED, regardless of stature in the company.

Now yes there are times to remind them who is in charge, but this situation does seem like a fairly minor problem. I agree that simply assigning a person every night to clean the break room will in most circumstances solve the problem, and if done daily won't take them more than 10 minutes max. Just tell them at your next employee meeting that because the break room is becoming a health issue that the management will be asking a random member to clean it every night and then don't let the chosen employee leave that day until you do a quick inspection of their work. Some people will see what the problem is like first hand and clean up after themselves better, others won't (and will never learn), but regardless your problem is solved.

One last bit about asking rather than demanding things, remember that just because you are asking someone to do something doesn't mean they have the option of saying no. If they do, it's insubordination and at that point write them up/run them off/terminate them. Those employees aren't worth keeping anyway. The key point to remember here is that by asking your employees to do things rather than telling them to, you will be creating a much more friendly working environment where everyone truly works together as a team.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-06-2005, 11:32 AM:

Thank you guys for your input it is appriciated.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 10-06-2005, 05:41 PM:

Amanda, I've been in this biz for 30+ years. Brad's way is the better choice.

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 10-06-2005, 08:11 PM:

(a) I agree with Brad on earning respect from fellow
employees, no matter how far up or down the food chain.

(b) I think the combination of allowing the staff to eat
in a designated, private, room _plus_ a cleaning rota
which is inspected by a manager daily (it's a 30 second
job to see if the job has been done), is the way to go.

Alex.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-06-2005, 10:21 PM:

Like I said I don't mind the staff eating in the locker room they just won't clean up after themselves. There is no where else in the building for a break room. Apparently there used to be 2 locker rooms (one for the guys and one for the girls) 2 years ago our area manager wanted and office of his own for when he is in town so the girls locker room became his office.

The only other place for a break room would be the conference room upstairs but again for "security reasons" we can't allow staff upstairs without management supervision and we can't always have the projectionist babysitting the conference room.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-08-2005, 02:49 AM:

Have to ask the simple question: Is Amanda close to the same age as these employees, plus was she one of these employees-on the same level, then moved up above them, and now have to be their superior?

Seen this many times - just a good case of hardheadedness from employees who all of a sudden show disrespect to a supervisior that used to be on the same level as the regular employee(s).

Also, if she was one of them, how did she achieve being a supervisor...we'll never know...

-Monte

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 10-08-2005, 11:21 AM:

Jeremy brought up one point that could fix most of this by itself... remove the locks, then prevent the lockers from being "lockable".

If the staff understands that there is no place within the theatre where they can secure anything they consider valuable, they'll find somewhere else to put their "stuff", like the trunk of their cars. Maybe they'll leave some of it at home. An area, open to inspection by everybody could reduce a lot of the problems.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-08-2005, 12:24 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
Have to ask the simple question: Is Amanda close to the same age as these employees, plus was she one of these employees-on the same level, then moved up above them, and now have to be their superior?

I am 24 and the vast majority of my employees are 18 and under.

quote: Monte L Fullmer

Also, if she was one of them, how did she achieve being a supervisor...we'll never know...

I started out as one of them Feb of last year. In May due to my hard work/dedication/prior theater experience I was promoted to shift manager. In fact some of the managers didn't know I had prior theater experience until I was promoted and was able to grasp the concept of threading a projector correctly after only being shown once. I had a few people resent me for that because they wanted that promotion and thought they deserved it more because they worked for the company longer and I've only been with the company 3 months, and those few who were once nice to me start treating me like dirt. But like I was told a promotion to shift manager has nothing to do with how long you've been with the company but how hard you work/attitude towards employees and customers/ and what really impressed them was my ability to take charge.

The reason I got salaried was for one my complex wanted me moved up(I was the only shift manager to actually clean up in booth and actually clean the projectors, stay late if short handed, come in on my day off to help out if needed, etc..)so she was in talks with our area manager since he does the salaried manager hiring but at the time (January) we were capped out on how many salaried we could have and she didn't want to loose me to another location. Then fate stepped in, 2 of our salaried quit but then our area manager was on PTO for 2 weeks. Finally they had a job fair to hire salaried managers, I went through the lengthy interview process and by March I was offered a position. Our area manager was quite impressed with all the good things he heard from the other managers about my work ethic.

So yeah that's my story.

Back to the topic at hand, I'm working on a proposal for my complex on how we can assign lockers so when one is in less than desirable condition we know who did it. I was thinking we could put key locks on all the lockers. We can number the key locks and their keys and an employee who wishes to lock anything up during their shift will have to check out the key to a locker. We already do walkie check outs for employees ( we like our checker, head usher, lead cashier if there is no box manager to have radios)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-08-2005, 03:34 PM:

Do you like creating extra work for yourself?

Posted by Wolff King Morrow (Member # 2226) on 10-08-2005, 03:58 PM:

I don't like the idea of trying to "pin" garbage on anyone without actually having witnessed it in person. The key idea sounds like a headache waiting to happen. Missing keys, stolen property, planted trash to frame an employee, etc.. Just have someone do a nightly inspection of the room like you would the concession area.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-08-2005, 06:40 PM:

Amanda,

You are making this way to hard on yourself. Make it a closing responsiblitiy to clean the room. Impress upon your staff why the room must be clean and why insect infestations are unacceptable. If you continue to have issues, then curb staff priviledges (for both staff and management) for a week or two to reinforce the point.

Amanda, teenagers are impressionable lumps of clay. By nature, they could care less about your operation - they are there to get paid. If you want them to care, you have to mold them into what you want them to be. Its hard work, but it is by no means impossible - but it will not happen on its own. From some of the other things you ahev said, I would guess that this break room issue is more a symptom of the issue rather than the issue itself.

People that want to moan and complain that you got a promotion and they did not are nothing more than cancers in your organization. Get rid of them - quickly - before their negativity and backbiting spreads. While Brad points out that personal respect must be earned, respect for the position should be, and must be, automatic if you are to have a sucessful organization. Any staff member or member of management that cannot respect your position needs to go.

Once you have cleared the bad apples and dead wood, you can get to the business of molding your people. The most effective way to do this is to instill in them a sense of pride in their theatre. Make them care. Make them beleive that they are a part of something great. Recognize their accomplishments - publically and vocally. Keep them focused on what needs to be done and WHY it is important. At the same time, you need to go to bat for your poeple whenever it is needed. Stand up for them. If they view you as someone that is looking out for them, they will return that loyalty.

Posted by John Hegel (Member # 628) on 10-08-2005, 07:44 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
People that want to moan and complain that you got a promotion and they did not are nothing more than cancers in your organization. Get rid of them

OR you could prove to them that you got the position for a reason. Firing someone for exhibiting humanoid tendencies is a pretty pore way to treat people.

Being a good manger is way more then following the employee hand book. As Brad said ruling with an iron fist doesn’t work anymore, especially when you consider the employment structure of a movie theater. If you step back and look at the moral of your employees ask yourself why are they doing what they are doing and after you figure that out look at the real reason they are working for you. (hint only the bad ones are there for the minimum wage pay)

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-08-2005, 09:33 PM:

quote: John Hegel
OR you could prove to them that you got the position for a reason. Firing someone for exhibiting humanoid tendencies is a pretty pore way to treat people.

"Staff officers of inharmonious disposition, irrespective of their ability, must be removed. A staff cannot function properly unless it is a united family." - Gen. George S. Patton.

Why do I quote Patton? Simply, because he is the most effective leader this nation has produced. One thing he insisted on was harmony among his staff officers. That does not mean they were forbidden to disagree, but what is does mean is that the team was preserved and people checked their egos at the door. Those that could not were shown the door by Gen. Patton.

The situation that has been discribed is basically people who think that Amanda's job was theirs by right. They don't care if she does a good job or not, because they can't get over the feeling that she "stole" the job from them. They will cause dissent and try to sabotage her whenever they get the chance. John, your suggestion expects a rational response from people who are behaving in an irrational manner to begin with. The potential of the behavior being exhibited by these individuals to cause damage to the operation must outweigh any other concern. What some of these individual are showing John is not a base human tendancy, but rather immaturity.

quote: John Hegel
Being a good manger is way more then following the employee hand book. As Brad said ruling with an iron fist doesn’t work anymore, especially when you consider the employment structure of a movie theater. If you step back and look at the moral of your employees ask yourself why are they doing what they are doing and after you figure that out look at the real reason they are working for you. (hint only the bad ones are there for the minimum wage pay)

No one has suggested ruling with an iron fist. However, you aslo have to realize that if your goal is to make all the staff like you then you are not a good manager. Any organization that has a staff the size of a typical megaplex must have some discipline instilled within the ranks. People have to be working towards a common goal in order for the team to succeed. Using the carrot and sick analogy, you have to have both at your disposal. Managers who only use carrots will have an unruly staff. Managers that only use sticks will have a demoralized staff. Managers must not shy away from using disciplinary action when it is necessary.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-08-2005, 09:41 PM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
Respect for the position should be, and must be, automatic.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Any staff member or member of management that cannot respect your position needs to go.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Get to the business of molding your people.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Make them care.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Make them beleive.

This sort of attitude is why I would never work for you Jim. You simply can not force these sort of things on people.

quote: Jim Ziegler
Patton...blah, blah...people checked their egos at the door.

I hate to say it, but IMHO the ego problem here is with the manager. In this day and age good management leads. Managers with the sort of ego that mandates every subordinate immediately respect them, no matter how good or bad they may be at their job, have no business managing. I'm not saying that Jim is a bad manager, but the attitude he has presented here is certainly one that I would not personally work for. It's also an egotistical approach that I don't know of anyone who would be happy working under either.

quote: Jim Ziegler
They will cause dissent and try to sabotage her whenever they get the chance.

No, that's what happens when a manager, whether promoted from within the ranks or not, tries to use an iron fist (aka "forced respect") approach.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-08-2005, 11:10 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
This sort of attitude is why I would never work for you Jim. You simply can not force these sort of things on people.

Brad, I have to honestly ask if you read the entirity of my comments or just jumped on catch phrases. Similiar to that video floating around of the modified Shining trailer, you can grab little snipets, out of context, and change the meaning to whatever suits your end.

I never said to force anything on anyone. Motivation and disciplie and not something that can be forced, it is something the management must instill within their people. How do you do this? Primarily through training, public recognition of accomplishment, and giving people a sense of ownership and pride in the operation.

I am a firm beleiver in individuals respecting the ranks of those above them. It is absolutly necessary for any organization to maintain discipline. To use a military example, a junior officer automoatically salutes a senior officer, even if they have never met. The junior will obey any lawful order given by the superior, even though they have never met. Why? Respect for the senior's position and the chain of command that is in place. How effective would our armed forces be if the junior felt free to ignore the senior, or bad mouth the senior, because he didn't know him or didn't like him? In any business respect for the chain of command must be something instilled within everyone, from the newest concessionist all the way to the top. To allow individuals to ignore this will lead to a breakdown of the organization. Those who want to put their ego ahead of the organization should not be in the organization.

quote: Brad Miller
I hate to say it, but IMHO the ego problem here is with the manager. In this day and age good management leads. Managers with the sort of ego that mandates every subordinate immediately respect them, no matter how good or bad they may be at their job, have no business managing. I'm not saying that Jim is a bad manager, but the attitude he has presented here is certainly one that I would not personally work for. It's also an egotistical approach that I don't know of anyone who would be happy working under either.

Brad, there is a differnce between personal respect and respect for the position someone holds. Are you suggesting that it is ok to refuse the instructions of your superior because they have not earned your respect? Would you accept that behavior from someone you supervised? How sucessful will any organization be where everyone feels that doing what is asked of them is optional? How much damage and confusion can be caused by just one person who thinks they can ignore a boss they don't like? In my career I have had pleanty of bosses I didn't like. Some I outright hated. I still did what I was instructed to do.

Honestly Brad, you don't know my management style, nor could you from the limited amount of discussion thus far. I do agree with you that the roots of this problem are in management, but not for the same reasons you do.

The management at this theatre has not built in the staff the respect for the chain of command. They have not built in the staff pride in the operation. They have not built in the staff a sense of ownership. If these things were presant, they would not have this issue. If people feel pride in their theatre, they keep it clean. If they feel a sense of ownership, they won't tolerate a pest infestation. If they have respect of the chain of command and the operation, they won't be bad mouthing each other.

The challenge of management is putting in your staff the sense of pride, ownership and respect for the chain of command.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-09-2005, 02:11 AM:

quote: Jim Ziegler
People that want to moan and complain that you got a promotion and they did not are nothing more than cancers in your organization. Get rid of them

Unfortunatly only our complex manager can fire a person. Besides I don't feel that way. Even though our company is an at will company and Indiana is an at will state we only fire employees if we have a justifiable cause to do so and we make sure we have documentation. Our number 1 reason, like probably most theaters, for firing is attendance.

quote:
They will cause dissent and try to sabotage her whenever they get the chance.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No, that's what happens when a manager, whether promoted from within the ranks or not, tries to use an iron fist (aka "forced respect") approach.

I worked for iron fist managers and I must say I didn't respect them one bit. Now was I rude to them, treated them unkindly, didn't listen to them, slacked off because I didn't like them, etc...? No. There is a difference between manners and respect. We had an employee recently quit due to finding another job. HE HATED ME WITH A PASSION because he told another staff member and they told me. Yet he was never rude to me, did what was asked and expected of him.

I do think I've earned respect witih my employees, like I said we weeded most of the bad ones. I lead by example and also show my employees that I'm not afriad to get dirty. When they see me clean a popper or do dishes it amazes them and then the next time I work with them I see a change in them and they strive a little bit harder.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-09-2005, 02:25 AM:

Please read these14 points of on the suggested steps to successful management and business operations that W. Edwards Deming presented to the Japanese in rebuilding their country after the 2nd World War.

And these points are being used today in some businesses.

Makes you wonder if theatre circuits can uses these points as well.

-Monte

[ 10-09-2005, 04:37 PM: Message edited by: Monte L Fullmer ]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-09-2005, 04:16 AM:

Jim, the fact that you are horribly twisting my words around to give the impression that I feel it is *optional* for a staff member to follow a request (or in your case demand) from a manager is really over the top. You seem to think that "respect" means to follow an order from a superior. I suggest you gain a better grasp on the word.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 10-09-2005, 06:50 PM:

I've found that "Can you please clean auditorium 8?" to be a much more effective phrase than "Clean auditorium 8." Neither one is really optional ... but the first is just simply more ... polite ... and doesn't create resentment (justified or not) in the person that is receiving the (mandatory request)/order - however you want to look at it.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 10-09-2005, 06:58 PM:

Its BS problems like this that make me glad I do not work at a megaplex.

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 10-09-2005, 08:52 PM:

Its the real world Matt. I beleive in being polite and asking employees to do things rather than telling them. It makes working much more pleasant. When the employees like working with you, your going to like working with them and it will show. The customers will notice it and so will YOUR superiors. Its not uncommon for district managers to go to the general employees and ask questions about management. Why tell someone what to do when asking them nicely will get the same effect.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-09-2005, 10:31 PM:

..what's funny is that even megaplexes can be cordial to their staff since I used to work in a 21 screener that had positive procedures in task operations for the staff and I know of a complex operation that really pertains to optimistic approaches in getting the staff in doing the tasks needed.

It comes down to "the buck stops here" as who's the owners/managers of the complex(es) - are they "grindhouse" operators, or career building operators.

I've seen all.

-Monte

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 10-10-2005, 12:16 PM:

I'll rephase...I'm glad I don't work with a bunch of teenagers at a megaplex and have to put up with their BS. I quit hiring young people a couple of years ago and the number of headaches have dropped significantly. Not that all of the teen employees were bad. Of course I realize thats it is not possible to be that picky when you need a staff of 60 or 100 instead of 6 like at my little theatre.

The youngest person that is currently at my theatre is 24.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-10-2005, 12:43 PM:

unfortunately the chain I work for is CHEAP and won't pay their hourly employees well which is why it is hard for me to find anyone over 18 willing to work. I'm interviewing a few over 18 over the next few days and luckily they don't want this job as their main source of income just to suppliment their current income.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-10-2005, 01:51 PM:

quote: Amanda Jones
they don't want this job as their main source of income just to suppliment their current income.

True, for kids can get a better starting wage with wage incentives after a 90 day probation by flipping burgers, filling drinks, and yelling though a mike taking orders at "Greasy Macs", than shoveling popcorn, cleaning toilets and tearing tickets at almost any theatre.

About the only thing that keeps them at the theatres is the free popcorn and soda, free movies and a pleasant atmosphere like they're a part of something, since raises is almost a heathen thing to think about and what are incentives-another bad word in some circuits.

Can't get this with a "grindhouse" operation, you'll go through kids like the plague.

-Monte

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-10-2005, 01:56 PM:

Very true Monte. I had an employee 2 weeks ago come and ask for her job back because though she was making more at her current job she was miserable. Since she was a good employee and gave notice I rehired her.

One of our problems as well is that we don't stay competitive with other theater chains. The AMC 10 minutes from us starts out at $6.25 an hour. Heck when my old theater locked its doors for the last time we were paying $6 an hour to start out with.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 10-10-2005, 02:14 PM:

In general theatre floor workers get paid little because theatre work a) takes little skill or knowledge, b)takes little manual labor, c)is in a comfortable enviroment.

The same could also be said for the "thread jockey" projectionists who are taught little more than how to start a movie.

Of course, it is foolish to just have thread jockeys in the booth.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-10-2005, 03:25 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
Jim, the fact that you are horribly twisting my words around to give the impression that I feel it is *optional* for a staff member to follow a request (or in your case demand) from a manager is really over the top. You seem to think that "respect" means to follow an order from a superior. I suggest you gain a better grasp on the word.

I don't think I was twisting your words by asking a question. As I explained in an earlier post, I am examing this from the perspective of staff respect for the position and the chain of command - not the individual in the position. A staff that respects the chain of command will follow instructions that come out of the chian of command. A staff that does not respect the chain of command will pick and choose what to follow and will generally do what they want to do.

Honestly Brad, what is wrong with that view? You imply that I am some ego-manic for articluating it, yet, when I ask you if you support the converse of that, you say I am horribly twisting your words. You have never once stepped foot into one of my theatres, yet, you seem to be insisting, quite confidantly, that I am an egotist who runs around shouting demands.

In all truth, the disagreement here seems mostly one of semantics and not one of substiance. As a manager I am sure you expect your staff to do what you ask of them regardless of whether they like you or not. As a manager I am sure you would agree that staff doing whatever they wish is harmful to the business and cannot be allowed to continue, regardless of whether the staff likes the manager or not. Respecting your superiors personally is, in my view, what ultimately determines if you will stay at a job or seek other employment.

Actually Brad, if you look at the first comments that both of us made here, they really aren't too far apart at all:

quote: Jim Ziegler

If that is their attitude, then management is not out of line to take the position that their paycheck should be thanks enough and removing perks such as free movie passes for a week or so should send an important message.

The problem though seems to be that you really need a break room or area where they can eat. Make it a closing responsibilty to clean it and have the managers check it every night.

quote: Brad Miller
Now yes there are times to remind them who is in charge, but this situation does seem like a fairly minor problem. I agree that simply assigning a person every night to clean the break room will in most circumstances solve the problem, and if done daily won't take them more than 10 minutes max.

Not really all that far off from what I can see. Let's just call it good and move on.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 10-10-2005, 04:17 PM:

Amanda, your chain has always been cheap. They were cheap 30 years ago when I wasted the time to go to an interview for a managers job.

They only wanted the manager to work 70 plus hrs per week at that time. Be in the theatres office EVERY morning @ 9am so they could call the manager. I told them thanks but no thanks.....then muttered, "your nuts" under my breath. [Big Grin]

From the looks of the local theatre here owned by your chain, they haven't changed their ways much over the years.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 10-10-2005, 05:12 PM:

Amanda, I don't want you to think I'm trying to steal your thread but I think this issue falls into a similar category to yours so in the interest of house keeping I'll add to it my "issue" as yours has drawn close to a solution already.

Now, here's a question for you guys.
How do you approach a superior about doing something blatantly wrong?

I've been running my booth for over a year as close to Film-Done-Right as possible. My new GM came up to check it out the other day and I explained how we do things, after which he proceeded to thread the leader backwards, he WAS going to thread the projector and motor the leader out but I stopped him.
He then proceeded to thread the lower magazine roller and drag my leader across the floor back to the platter. After being told to just bring it back and skip the roller.
Then to add insult to injury I'd already explained that we thread up, not down. So he threads down and puts the leader all over the floor for a second time.
That's where I'll stop before I rant too much.

Now, how do you tell someone who's got 12 years in the business compared to your 3.5 that he's doing it all wrong?
This is of course in regards to more than just threading, but I just used this one incident as an example.
Thanks.

--Dom

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-10-2005, 08:17 PM:

First be careful with your wording. Technically if he got it threaded such that he wasn't scratching the film and got it on screen he didn't do it "wrong", he just did it "poorly" or did not use the "better way" or "in the best interest of the presentation". Essentially his show that time may have looked fine, but from this point on every time that leader is used again, it will transmit more and more dirt into the roll, and eventually dirt turns into scratches, even if there is no misthread. So while yes he did do it wrong, so to say, be careful about using a hard absolute term like that with a superior, which brings me to...

Second, it all depends on the person. If he's got a huge ego and thinks he knows everything, there is nothing you can do to correct him...he is just a bad manager. If he is approachable, then just try and explain why you have worked to get everyone to do things differently. The key word here is "why". If you cannot tell him why he shouldn't let the leader touch the floor, then you really don't have an argument, it's more of a situation where "this is how I was taught". It's like the people who think "the soundtrack has to face towards the screen when traveling to the projector, but the soundtrack has to face away from the screen when traveling away from the projector". Threading like that is retarded and holds no merit as there are reasons as to why that isn't the best way to do things (but that's been covered before).

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-10-2005, 10:07 PM:

Brad is right on Dominic. If you explain why you are doing it that way your GM should be accomidating.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 10-10-2005, 10:31 PM:

We'll certainly hope so, guys.
What I just plain don't want to see happen is the hard work that myself and my assistant have put into putting on the bets show possible go to waste because of a single "old school" mentality.

Since we're now playing their movie sub-run I've seen so much more buildup in the projectors. Hopefully they'll be open minded to the concept using the FilmGuard and media in their booth on NEW prints.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-11-2005, 01:00 AM:

One thing that always bugs me is why most chains wants their managers to "live" at the theatre 45 to 70 hrs a week? Don't these owner know that managers DO have a life outside of the theatre?

I know some circuits that DEMAND that their managers are to be there between 45 and 65 hrs a week, or get a pretty good ripping from the home office - whom those idiots spend only 35 to 38 hrs a week there...

Shoot, when I managed, I played the cards right to where I wasn't giving any company any extra time than needed...and got away with it.

..it's a go-figure thing...

-Monte

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-11-2005, 01:57 AM:

All salaried managers at our chain are required to work 45 hours a week to make their salary. During non-peak time we all work about 45 but during peak time it ends up being 50-55. Its really not that bad. If you properly train your staff to get the concession stand close correctly and in a timely manner and if you utliize your shift managers to their fullest potential then we can get 45 hours a week during peek periods.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-11-2005, 04:02 AM:

Now, back to your original topic: Have you figured out a way to get the employees to quit eating in the locker room, or if they do eat, to clean up after themselves?

If your a supervisor of sorts, have you presented this to the main manager on recommendations, for you seem that this is the manager's responsibility for location cleaninless.

Posted by Dan Suomi (Member # 2585) on 10-11-2005, 08:53 AM:

I noticed that no one mentioned the part about Amanda's theater making the employees eat in the receiving area. I don't blame them for not wanting to eat there. We have a receiving area here and the compactor is there in the same room as well. I wouldn't eat there if my life depended on it. I would eat in the locker room too.

Posted by Amanda Jones (Member # 3326) on 10-11-2005, 01:05 PM:

Our receiving area is just a big room connected to the concession stand. Our compactor is outside behind the building next to the loading dock. The only thing our receiving area really houses is a some shelves that hold our extra popping salt and popcorn salt for the customers, coffee condiments, and all the Haz Mat books. This is also where the elevator is.

I now have my night usher go in and check the locker room at the end of his shift and our complex threatened to revoke pass privledge if you are caught leaving trash in there.

Posted by Jim Ziegler (Member # 86) on 10-11-2005, 02:44 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
One thing that always bugs me is why most chains wants their managers to "live" at the theatre 45 to 70 hrs a week? Don't these owner know that managers DO have a life outside of the theatre?

My salary is based on 50/hrs per week.. I susually exceed that during the peak times, but end up around 45 in the off peak times.

Posted by Iden Sadeghieh (Member # 2784) on 10-28-2005, 12:53 AM:

Keep it simple. Just have a closing usher clean everything out as a part of his/ her nightly closing duties. I definitely wouldn’t loose any sleep over it, and I especially would not really want to cause a stressful situation over something like this. But that’s just me. [thumbsup]