Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Which Digital projector to use for Advertising/gaming

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Posted by John Summers (Member # 3397) on 10-13-2005, 08:52 AM:

Hello all,

I own a theatre in rural MN. I have a kodak slide projector right now doing my in theatre advertising. I want digital really bad but can't afford a large purchase ($3200 or more). My throw to my screen is almost 90 feet. I have an old 1949 theatre that seats 388 and is long and narrow. Does anyone have a recommendation on a digital projector I can put in here that won't break the bank but will do my digital advertising and I can use it to do xbox gaming on the big screen. I think the Infocus LP-815 with the 021 long throw lense will work but it is priced outside my budget. I am looking for suggestions on what is out there. Thank you in advance.

John Summers
Milaca Theatre
Milaca, MN [Confused]

Posted by Rick Meister (Member # 689) on 10-13-2005, 02:39 PM:

I have a theater that is 60 feet to the screen and seats 200 and would be interested in knowing too. Is there a formula to use to figure this out?

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-13-2005, 05:51 PM:

The throw isn't the issue...the picture size is. The throw only comes into play when selecting the lens...now which lens you need may indeed affect your projector choice.

Unfortunately for you guys, the projectors that take the longer lenses inveriably are the more expensive ones.

We carry the Sanyo line of projectors (and Barco but they are yet more pricey and for larger presentations)

For an example...a Sanyo PLC-XT11 is a 2700 lumen projector knocking around the $3000 street price with the standard lens (TR 1.62 to 2.12)...If your theatre fits that (and it won't) great...if you need a longer lens (and you will, if you want to put the projector in the booth so you can keep the filters clean and change the lamps)...then you will need lenses that cost as much as another $2000.00...give or take on the lens needed and which brand.

Now you can use Ultra portable projectors but it will need to live in the auditorium. Again, using Sanyo as an example...a PLC-XU48 will only set you back $1,695.00 and has 3000 lumens but the lens is the lens.

Note, these are 4:3 projectors...many people are already moving towards the 16:9 projectors...they cost more in all categories. 1000 lumen 16:9 home projectors start at around $1500. Again, when you get to the projectors that have interchangable lenses you are going to get into lenses that are thousands by themselves and projectors that are over $4000 for just 2000 or so lumens.

Now I have seen people use the $1000 whatever is on sale projectors with just DVD players for adds...they look TERRIBLE...the picture is dark, the resolution is horrible (800 x 600 with a 480i source)...but I guess it would satisfy the criteria as set forth in the question.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-13-2005, 07:43 PM:

Unless you intend some sort of snazzy/glitzy pre-show thingy I would not reccomend that you install any form of digital advertising at all. The town you are in will find you a classier operator for not installing it and you can capitilize on the fact that you DON'T have it to annoy them.... that you are advertisement free [thumbsup]

We have had at least one local chain remove all their digital advertising stuff because so many customers complained about it to them and found it annoying that they pay a 7.00 admission price to watch a handful if stupid ads for places that most of them already knew about.

Mark

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-13-2005, 08:01 PM:

^^ what he said.

We don't run ads and never will, unless we're forced to in order to pay for [dlp]

or something along that line.

Posted by Todd Leach (Member # 883) on 10-14-2005, 03:27 PM:

I would suggest to have a dealer give a demo before you buy. I had a dealer figure that I needed a 5500 lumen projector just based on image size. Not knowing digital projectors I had them send me a demo projector. All they had at the time was a 6500 lumen projector, that turned out to be way to bright, but the demo had two lamps so I turned one off and it looked much better, with one lamp it was rated at 3200. I ended up getting a Sanyo PLC-XT16 which is rated at 3500 lumen and am very happy with it. Cost was over $5000 with a lens. I do my own power point type ad slides and in less than 6 months the projector was paid for. I found that people like the ads and read and comment on them while waiting for the movie to start.

One more tip, if you have a 4:3 projector and an old Pantar lens sitting around, take the back off the lens and place it in front of the projector lens, set your DVD player to output 16x9 and dial in the lens to unstretch the anamorphic. Instant 16x9 from a 4:3 projector.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 10-14-2005, 05:51 PM:

Ads like that are much better than rolling stock ads. "Slide" ads are not what people are complaining about.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-14-2005, 07:29 PM:

Out of curiosity, how big is your screen?

The rule of tumb this week is that 14fL is good for "movies" and double that for preshow. The difference is that preshow has higher ambient light levels. So, for a matte white screen, the XT-16 should look good up to about 13.75 feet tall, with the lights down low. The brighter your ambient light, the brighter your projector has to be to overcome it.

Note too on these projectors...the lumen figure the maufacturer gives is based on the best lens they can supply for it...not the lens you might actually need. Furthermore, if the brightest lens they have is a zoom, the lumen rating will be from its brightest point (most often when zoomed for the biggest picture...don't be confused by that...yes a bigger picture is darker but if you physically move the projector closer to the screen with the lens zoomed to its max and compare the same lens zoomed to its minimum (and the projector positioned further away so the picture is identical for either set up)). This isn't that the distance is the factor but that the f-stop (or T-stop for some) is less efficient when zoomed for the smallest picture.

Anyway...as a general rule...if you have an overlap in lens choices...go for the lens with it zoomed closest to is maximum (biggest) image to yield more light...however, most lenses resolve better towards their middle...you can't win entirely.

The Sanyo XT series of projectors are very good for what they are and are the most popular projector for university classrooms, despite their "table top" classification. Sanyo only has 3 lenses for them but Buhl (Navitar) has a broader selection of decent lenses though they are not motorized for focus and zoom like the Sanyo models.

Once you make the next jump in the Sanyo line into the XP (portable), your lens selection opens up a bit and there is a notable jump in the pricing. The XF series (and WF for 16:9) or "fixed" installation projectors have a very wide variety of lenses available and the higher models offer more lens shifting options (lesser projectors often only can shift in one direction, up when non-inverted or down if hung from the ceiling).

Posted by Steve Scott (Member # 630) on 10-14-2005, 09:18 PM:

I'm a fan of Toshiba's small DLP projectors, much smaller, sharper and better air circulation than their LCD counterparts. But Sanyo is a better deal for the money.

Posted by Todd Leach (Member # 883) on 10-14-2005, 10:25 PM:

My screen is 11 Feet tall and I have a buhl lens for the projector.

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 10-15-2005, 07:54 AM:

So...if you have a matte white screen...you only need 2253 lumens...for advertising with high ambient light...4506 would be better. If your lights are dimmed a bit for advertising, the 3500 lumen figure should look great.

Rule of thumb...for 4:3 projectors...you are looking for 18.62 x screen height^2 = lumens (allow for the different lens speed though).

For 16x9...you are looking for 24.92 x screen height^2 = lumens. You need more light to light up a larger area of screen.

The above also is presumming a matte-white screen with a gain of 1.0...higher gain screens will need less light but will have a hot spot...just like with film.

The brighter you have your room for preshow or rental, the brighter your projector has to be to overcome the ambient light. Many projectors have a dual light setting (or multiple lamps or a combination of both). Often a projector can be selected that allows the brighter setting to work for preshows and the lower setting to work for "movies."

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 10-15-2005, 11:24 AM:

Please re-consider showing video ads. I just saw the new (?) Loews/Screenvision version of this last night and it's jaw-droppingly horrible. If this is the direction that the industry is heading, then it absolutely deserves to die.

On the other hand, I think that a video projector (and 16mm projector) is a good addition to a theatre if the intent is to show material that doesn't exist on 35mm film, as long as this fact is made clear in advertisements.

Posted by John Summers (Member # 3397) on 10-28-2005, 01:37 PM:

Mark,
We have the advertising because the theatre can’t stay afloat during the “dry times” when the movies just aren’t good from January to May. The advertising will pay the rent during this time. I would like to not be advertising but I must stay afloat. The town is small and most are farmers. I only charge $3 for admission and get movies second run. I want the ads to be better with voice overs and maybe some video but the biggest reason is so that I can make changes on the fly and stop getting film developed. Many of the current slides are fuzzy at times and with digital, I can alter this to look better if I need to.

Todd, the dealer demo sounds good. How do you go about this? Any contacts? The other problem is that I don’t have a whole lot of capitol and so need to try and keep it low cost.

My screen is 21’ x ??. I am not sure of the height of the screen but know it looks like it is over 12 to 15 feet tall. I will measure this weekend.

Again, if there was a way to not have to advertise, then I would do it. I am in the process of upgrading my heating system since it is at or below 50% efficiency. Gas prices are going up.

I want to thank everyone who has responded to my request.

John Summers

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 10-31-2005, 11:37 AM:

John, we own a small first/sub-run theatre in MI and we also do advcertising for similar reasons. We never run them after the advertised showtime though and that helps.. I did the ads for a few years by myself and they were ok with a slide prejector, I did $3-7K a year depending on how ambitious I was. We subcontract it out now and they do 4 times that but we still get a similar share as if I was doing it myself. You can shoot me an email if you want some contacts.

There is a company in MN that we used to have that were pretty decent to us, I think they are called Unique Screen Media ( They paid $6k/yr for 35,000-50,000 attendance), I could also tell you one to stay away from but Id rather not do it in a public forum.