Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Blocking cell phone signals in theaters

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Posted by Shane Cooper (Member # 2510) on 12-22-2005, 01:24 AM:

Here is a link to an interview with NATO President John Fithian talking about dealing with the cell phone problems in theaters. One item he suggests is lifting the FCC ban on cell phone signal blockers.

CNN Video

What has been successful for everyone in curbing cell phone use?

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 12-22-2005, 02:05 AM:

Slapping them upside the head if they answer. No just kidding of course.

It seems like at our theater we don't have TOO much of a problem with cell phones going off during the movie. BUT, the blue or green lights shinning when someone checks to see what time it is/who called/whatever, is more of a problem or annoyance then cell phones ringing. Not too mention CRYING BABIES (can they make a ban on those as well? [evil]

)

I remember when we use to have problems with laser pointers. If we found the idiots who where shinning them on the screen, we would confiscate them. But as always, once a manager walks into the theater, the culprits put away their toys...

Posted by Cory Isemann (Member # 2517) on 12-22-2005, 07:40 AM:

A always love catching someone while I'm at the port window and I'm able to point out where they're sitting to another manager and watch them get escorted out. Cheap thrills!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-22-2005, 01:04 PM:

I am pessimistic about NATO or specific movie theaters circuits being able to get anywhere in jamming or shielding out cell phone transmissions.

The medical folks will throw in their need to be reached anywhere anytime. Then others will try to make it into a civil rights kind of thing -and probably have more success about than other groups, such as militant smokers campaigning against smoking bans in certain areas and cigarette taxes.

What has to happen is the general public must become hatefully angry enough to where a selfish cellphone user will fear inviting a vicious ass kicking if he takes or makes a cellphone call during a movie. Until that day comes assholes will keep on dialing and answering cellphone calls during movies.

quote:
Not too mention CRYING BABIES (can they make a ban on those as well? [evil] )

I hear you, Allison. During the showing of "King Kong" I watched this past weekend, a couple sat in the row ahead of me. They had an infant that could not have been more than a month old. The baby starts crying and the mother is mixing up a bottle to feed the kid right in the theater. The only bright side to this is the baby didn't cry very much (just wait until he's several months old and that crying volume level shrieks up several notches). The couple had to get up and leave when "Kong" started climbing onto the Empire State Building. The infant started crying and would not stop. I've seen some people stay planted and allow an infant to scream through the climax of a movie. On top of that, while the crying sustains, they're probably those bubbly parents who exclaim "isn't my baby the cutest?" Assholes.

I'm sorry if this steps on any toes, but parents of infants seriously need to leave the baby with a relative or just stay at home. Don't take the kid to a theater and f**k up everyone else's outing.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-22-2005, 01:53 PM:

We had the most annoying cellphone incident yet last weekend. It was during a quiet moment in NARNIA, when all of a sudden a phone rang, but intstead of a musical ringtone it was a voice yelling "ANSWER THE GODDAMN PHONE! ANSWER THE GODDAMN PHONE! ANSWER THE GODDAMN PHONE!" As luck would have it, my wife was standing in the back of the auditorium when it happened and hauled the offending teenager out in quick fashion.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 12-22-2005, 02:13 PM:

Had a teenage girl who was warned to turn off her cell phone. She didn't, and tried to use it in the theatre, so we took it till the end of the movie. Meanwhile, her Dad tried to call her. Ended up getting in an arguement with the father. I'd rather fight him then piss off the paying customers.

Bottom line, no cell phones in the auditoriums. Only solution I know is to police the theatres as much as possible, and tell people when they come in the no cell phone policy.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-22-2005, 02:39 PM:

If it is technically possible to block phone signals and only phone signals, without affecting other radio signals or affecting phones outside the physical theatre, I'm all in favor of this. People who need to be reachable at all times shouldn't be going to movies. People who "think" that they need to be reachable at all times should turn their phones off or, better yet, leave them at home or in their cars.

Posted by Jarryd Beard (Member # 2543) on 12-22-2005, 04:12 PM:

I don't like the idea of taking a customer's cell phone during the movie. Instead, simply kick them out with no refund if they don’t think they can sit for two hours with their phone silenced. Also, if the phone rings, I wouldn't remove the patron. I'd warn them that any further activity of any type would result in them being ejected.

Because I work in a college town theatre, at least 95% of our guests are college students. The talking on the phone doesn't occur nearly as much as those annoying fucking text messages. People sit in a dark theatre with their stupid bright screens sending test messages. Nothing pisses me of more. Well, except for some stupid fuck that plays with his Zippo lighter lid all through the movie. Never have I come so close to throwing something at someone in a theatre. (Of course, I was at another theatre watching the movie as a paying customer. This didn't occur while I was working.)

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-22-2005, 04:25 PM:

How about just wacking the ill-mannered rude asses in the back of the head with a large coke or a water balloon? (Water would be easier to clean up but a coke would be handier) This penalty would be applied to cell phone users (of any type) parents too inconsiderate to take their screaming kids out and people who talk during the show, telling what's going to happen in the next few moments (I've come close to doing this a few times)
Or maybe they just need a spotlight shined on them until they quit [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-22-2005, 04:29 PM:

I've been annoyed by talking customers before, but I oppose blocking cell traffic anywhere.

I use my cell phone primarily for short conversations and emergencies. I had my cell go off one time in an important city council/zoning meeting, but it was a true emergency (very ill father-in-law). I've also had my daughter call after being in a car accident. If I had to talk to someone, I would leave the auditorium and call the person back, but I MUST be able to receive the call.

I bought my cell phone to be able to be reached anywhere, any time. When you have elderly parents and in-laws, their being able to reach you instantly is crucial. I'll turn off the ringer, but I will NOT turn off or surrender my cell phone.

Any theatre that would deny me entrance because of a cell phone would immediately lose my business and just give me another reason to stay home.

So, that puts the management in a real bind. The issue isn't really the cell phone itself, but how it is being used. Any loud talking should be cause for removal, but there is a true need for emergency calls to get through.

I don't have much hope of NATO getting this through. They have good lobbiests, but the phone companies have paid (with our money) for some of the best! I would doubt it even gets introduced.

Posted by Greg Mueller (Member # 17) on 12-22-2005, 04:34 PM:

How about having a cell phone users showing? And/Or a screaming kids showing. That way all those people who refuse to be considerate could all go to those showings and piss each other off instead of the couple hundred people they piss off that are considerate.
What did people ever do before they had cell phones?

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 12-22-2005, 04:54 PM:

quote: Mark Lensenmayer
I MUST be able to receive the call.

Then you'd better read your contract, because all carriers state that delivery is not guaranteed.

As for the topic at hand, nobody could stop you from passively blocking the signals with faraday cage. It would just be very expensive. You could combine a faraday cage with an on-site paging system (antenna in each auditorium) so that people who really MUST be reachable (doctors, emergency officials) could leave the phone at the box office and get an in-house vibrating pager.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-22-2005, 05:31 PM:

quote: Allison Parsons
BUT, the blue or green lights shinning when someone checks to see what time it is/who called/whatever, is more of a problem or annoyance then cell phones ringing

I've noticed this happening far more frequently lately than phones actually ringing. At one recent show this woman in the row in front of me pulled out her phone and checked for messages like every 5 minutes, and every time that nice bright LCD display was a distraction. Do these people think nobody can see that light but them? Are they retarded? Fucktards maybe? Blocking calls won't stop people from dinking around with their phones. [Roll Eyes]

My god, how did we ever exist without cell phones? We've all gone off the deep end. SHUT THE DAMN PHONE OFF FOR 2 HOURS!!! [Mad]

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 12-22-2005, 05:42 PM:

quote: David Stambaugh
Blocking calls won't stop people from dinking around with their phones

But maybe they'll eventually figure out that they aren't going to get any messages and stop checking!

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 12-22-2005, 06:26 PM:

Sadly, many people use cell phones in place of watches noawadays...

I will admit, I use my cell phone to inform theatres about major focus or framing problems during the trailers, to avoid having to disturb lots of other patrons by getting up from the center of a row.

I've also done it mid-movie once or twice for truly egregious problems (wrong lens, movie goes out-of-frame across a reel break, etc.). Perhaps sadly, at the multiplexes around here, calling the theatre is actually often faster than trying to find a manager in a lobby (not even counting travel time).

Recently at a screening of Bee Season, I watched someone across an aisle from me answer her cell phone and keep talking continually. I understand that sometimes people forget to turn off their phones or put them on vibrate -- that is really really annoying, but it at least understandable -- but to actually answer the thing and talk?! Wow!

Maybe more surprising was that nobody near her said anything! I got up after waiting 30 seconds for someone closer to do something and managed to get her to stop without making noise.

--jhawk

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-22-2005, 06:35 PM:

quote:
My god, how did we ever exist without cell phones? We've all gone off the deep end. SHUT THE DAMN PHONE OFF FOR 2 HOURS!!!

I've taken my family to the Benaroya Concert Hall in Seattle a couple of times over the past month. They start each show with some kind of "turn off your cell phones & pagers" announcement. Last night, they had a slide above the prosceneum that told people to turn the stuff off... maybe a slide in one of their spots? Pretty cool.

Anyway... I never heard one ring, beep or saw an open screen all night. They also have an army of ushers who have no problems with tapping you on the shoulder to ask you to STFU.

So... any reason this can't (still) be done in theatres?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-22-2005, 06:36 PM:

Active blockers are and will be illegal in the U.S. Fithian won't change this; we are not considered to be an industry worth protecting.

Passive (Faraday) blocking has merit and should be considered when any new construction is started....might not be that expensive. Expense is a relative thing. Waste on a large job would more than pay for the Faraday shielding.

Also, it might be possible to use cell phone repeaters within the shield so that cell phone would work well until the changeover opens. Louis

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 12-22-2005, 10:17 PM:

Mark... How many people have your "emergency" cell phone number?

Posted by Frank Dubrois (Member # 3042) on 12-22-2005, 11:45 PM:

I think it is up to theater personel to closely monitor the auditoriums for cell phones, HOWEVER, if I were a customer and someone near me was using a cell phone during the show, I wouldn't have a problem telling them to turn it off or get a theater usher. Granted, customers shouldnt have to confront other customers, but when it comes down to it...it is the fastest way to solve the problem. I'm a little more confrontational than others I'm sure, but I'd have no problem taking care of business my self. The only thing worse than cell phone users in the theater, is those dam laser pointer kids who think it funny to point them on the screen.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 12-23-2005, 07:54 AM:

quote:
I don't like the idea of taking a customer's cell phone during the movie. Instead, simply kick them out with no refund if they donâ€™t think they can sit for two hours with their phone silenced. Also, if the phone rings, I wouldn't remove the patron. I'd warn them that any further activity of any type would result in them being ejected.

In our case, we gave the girl a choice: leave or give us the phone till after the movie. She voluntarily handed it over. We can't make her give us the phone.

Posted by Mark Lensenmayer (Member # 134) on 12-23-2005, 08:43 AM:

I guess we use our cell phones differently from others. The only people with the number are my wife, parents (both around 80), mother-in-law (83) and children (18 & 22). I'll also give it to someone like a plumber or worker that may need to contact me. We do not use the cells for casual conversation...we just don't talk on the phone very much. We primarily got the phone to communicate during my father-in-laws severe illness. As for text messaging, I usually only use that to Google the nearest pizza place location. (I don't even use it for movie show times...I get that on my watch!!)

At any rate, the problem here is not the cell phone, it is the disturbance caused by the conversation. I can have my cell phone and leave the auditorium if I need to have a conversation. I agree that people causing disturbances should be removed, but I believe it is possible to handle a call in a way that does not cause a problem. It gets back to the personal responsibility of the person. And really, that's the heart of the problem.

As for my earlier "call must go through" statement, of course that is subject to the network.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 12-23-2005, 10:35 PM:

Jack said it best, it's up to us as owners to police the auditoriums and to keep all types of disturbance's down.

I have far more trouble with the Mable and Freds talking like they are still at home in their own living room.

Posted by Alan Dallas (Member # 2537) on 01-15-2006, 08:29 AM:

Cell phones in Theatres are my biggest pet-peeve. We don't actively patrol for phone users, but we do perform at least 2 patrols during each showing for any disturbances.

One of my more favorite and quite comical "customer correcting a customer" incidents was a teenager coming out of what ever it was they were watching complaining that someone kept squirting them with soda(was actually water). As was reported to me the Manager that handled it said he went to the auditorium and stood at the top of the stadium seating off in the corner to observe for awhile. When low and behold the complaining teenages cell rang and was very audible over the movie. Just as he was going to correct that infraction of theatre ettiquette he saw the unbelievable. Turned out an elderly gentelman got sick and tired of "these damn kids these days with there cell phones" and took to carrying a water pistol with him when he came to watch movies. Nailed the little teeny girl right in the back of the head with that water pistol from 2 rows above her.

I agree, movie goers really need to start helping the Theatres out and policing themselves. Ultimatly there only ruining the "Movie going experiance" for themselves IMHO.

Posted by Alexander Smith (Member # 1769) on 01-15-2006, 10:29 AM:

The mobile phone companies will not agree to blocking, or
otherwise limiting, mobile phone coverage in cinemas simply
because there's too much money to be lost.

Unless the government gets involved, i.e. passes a law then
the situation won't change.

Looks like we're stuck with observing from the port-glass,
and relaying the location of mobile phone users to the front
of house staff.

Alex.

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 01-15-2006, 01:35 PM:

If we ever are allowed to block cell phone signals, make sure you can block them completely or don't do it at all.
I can only imagine what would happen if everybody had a weak signal:
Instead of being able to talk quietly, the call will go through and the inconsiderate cell phone user will have to yell or repeat themselves loudly several times because of the weak cell phone signal (not that they should be trying to talk on it in a theater in the first place).
I remember hearing about some bluetooth technology a couple of years ago that would automatically put people's bluetooth phones on vibrate when they enter the auditorium. It is not a solution, but it could be a good start.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-15-2006, 02:05 PM:

Could pass a law against cell phone use of any kind in a public performance space. This is more than cinemas.

Too bad you can't legislate courtesy. Louis

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-15-2006, 02:30 PM:

Frankly, the signs and inserts in policy trailers are too nice regarding cell phone use. There needs to be a real stern tone about it, enough to shame the hell out of whatever JERK is doing it.

IMHO, young women are by far the biggest offenders in using cell phones in theaters. Damn near everytime I hear a cellphone ringer happening, the phone belongs to some chick. They also seem to be more obsessive in checking their messages frequently and thus lighting up their area of the auditorium with those ever brightening LCD displays. Pretty soon that light pollution is going to be comparable to someone firing up a notebook computer in there.

I don't think as many men use their phones in theaters, in part because they know with being a guy there's nothing to stop some other guy getting in his face about it. It's more complicated to confront some teenage girl about her phone use.

Here's one possible solution: A reward system for viewers. Give them a bounty of a free soda or popcorn for getting a cell phone user tossed from the theater. First one who reports the abuse wins. I don't think the theater would lose much from the snack counter. The system would likely cut down phone use in theaters down to nothing if the phone user has to worry about everyone else in the auditorium potentially turning him in for a reward.

quote: Mark Lensenmayer
The issue isn't really the cell phone itself, but how it is being used.

99.99% of people who insist on using cell phones in theaters are complete fucktards in being able to use a cell phone in a non-disruptive way. Most can't be bothered to put the damned thing on vibrate.

Seriously, all cell phone users should leave their phones on silent vibrate mode as much as possible. I will not be made to be impressed or entertained by all those stupid, irritating ringers. They suck no matter where they are heard. Restaurants, libraries, funerals, church services or even in a loud football game. It's amazing to me how so many cell phone users have not figured out the novelty of the musical ringer has worn off and gone out of fashion.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 01-15-2006, 02:45 PM:

I think actual cell phone use (as in the phone rings during a movie) might be down. But "silently" checking for messages or whatever is another issue. People seem to think those bright LCD displays are invisible to everyone else in the theater.

Posted by Jeremy Jorgenson (Member # 2989) on 01-15-2006, 04:54 PM:

Agreed with David ... the bright light is about as annoying as somebody talking at a normal conversational level on a phone.

quote: Bobby Henderson
Damn near everytime I hear a cellphone ringer happening, the phone belongs to some chick.

I have not found this to be true ... at least in IL or CA (where most of the movies I've seen have been since cell phones have gained popularity). In my experience it's been pretty well split between the genders.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-15-2006, 08:18 PM:

I would agree my observation on which gender is the bigger cell phone offender is not a scientific judgment. At least here in my part of Oklahoma I notice more teenage girls playing with cell phones in theaters than anyone else. I think some of this may also be a basic difference in behaviors between the genders. Most men don't want to yammer away on a phone all the time.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-18-2006, 11:18 AM:

I helped a friend install a farday sheild on the roof and side walls in his 2 screen theatre a couple years ago, he used 1/2" galvanized steel mesh soldered together and isolated then grunded to earth. So far it works very well and he has yet to receive a complaint form ANYONE regarding loss of signal or missed calls! Plus he says He can sit and watch the film with everyone else without the rude interruption of ringers! The mesh is sandwiched in the roof system and behind the accustic drapes so it is completely hidden. Thus, no lightning threat.

Posted by Jason Miller (Member # 2341) on 01-18-2006, 05:54 PM:

has he tested it with different carriers to see if it works on all towers? I was under the impression that a close enough tower would be able to penetrate that shield.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-19-2006, 10:28 AM:

At that frequency, a Faraday shield should be very good. The degree to which it is effective depends upon the per cent coverage and workmanship that you have. My guess is that this is hard to do after-the-fact. I have seen broadcast facilities with 100 Kw transmitters where the studio was encased in a Faraday shield that was 100% effective. Louis

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 01-20-2006, 09:52 AM:

An average building will attenuate a cell phone signal 15-20 dB. A decently put together faraday cage should get you another 50 or 60 dB. Using the low end of those estimates, you should be attenuating at least 65 dB.

Cell phones (GSM) will work down to around -100 to -110 dBm. In order to have at least -110 dBm in your auditorium the exterior signal would have to be -45 dBm or stronger. This is an extremely strong signal. The strongest I've personally seen is -35 dBm a few hundred feet from the tower.

Basically, as long as the tower is 1/4 mile or so away, there is very little chance that any phone will work. Even if the tower is in the parking lot, most phones probably won't work because people are sitting with them in their pockets which will further attenuate.

CDMA technology phones will have different measurments but the coverage radius from a given tower is similar to GSM.

It is extremely possible to do a passive cell phone blocker with a faraday cage, it's just a matter of the expense.

Posted by John Eickhof (Member # 323) on 01-24-2006, 11:54 AM:

It's been in place for several years in a medium sized metro area (45,000 + pop ) There are at least 3 servers in town and I asked him about it and he said that he has not heard of anyone receiving a call signal inside the auditorium! He also said the local PD, EMT, & FD personnel always leave their fones with him or have their dispatch call his thru line for emergencies, and had no prblems or complaints yet!