Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: intermission

This is topic intermission in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001653

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 03-16-2006, 08:35 PM:

We independent cinemas are in the direct customer firing line. Along with the wounds there is some wisdom.

Many of our customers have stated that they would not come to see certain films. It had nothing to do with the content, the talent or any technical aspect.

The thing all of these films had in common was that they were too long.

In the good old days, our audience thought nothing about coming to Lawrence of Arabia, The Sound of Music or Gone With the Wind. All films of any length used to come with an intermission.

Today, because intermissions have been outlawed, people have decided to get the DVD and make their own intermission.

Our industry’s dictatorial demand that customers must sit through up to three and a half hours of a feature without a break has been met with understandable resistance.

Several of the patrons who do buy tickets have to make their own break for the toilet or refreshments. These random comings and goings are more disturbing to the atmosphere than an expected and formal intermission.

When the feature is more than two hours long, many of our customers ask if there is a break.

In the civilised days of intermissions, kiosk sales were spread over pre-show and half time. Now, all staff is flat out for that frantic ten minutes for ticketing, concessions, ushering and show start. Concession sales definitely benefited and customers and staff were less stressed.

Features of around 150 minutes could be hurting our business, being run as marathon endurances rather than enjoyable events.

Give us a break.

Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 03-17-2006, 11:05 PM:

quote: Ron Curran
Today, because intermissions have been outlawed, people have decided to get the DVD and make their own intermission.

Well I was told by one manager that "Saving Private Ryan" came with strictly no interval instructions and rightly so. As far as recent epics go, I have not seen any of them and don't care too but others have placed intervals (probably in the wrong places) on films like King Kong, etc. You could do the same.

quote: Ron Curran
All films of any length used to come with an intermission.

Any length?? This can't be true. Why would you place an intermission on "Casablanca" or "Citizen Kane" or any Hitchcock title. You mean of course films longer that 150 mins or so.

What should happen, apart from films where the Director has ruled out placing of intermissions, is that the distributor should have a preferred placement of an intermission during the film and inform Theatres of this who wish to place one and even have an intermission tag made for that film. But Intermissions at Multiplexes don't work. No curtains, poor lighting, bad music, candy bar and toilets out side the valid ticket area, patrons losing tickets, etc etc.

quote: Ron Curran
Several of the patrons who do buy tickets have to make their own break for the toilet or refreshments. These random comings and goings are more disturbing to the atmosphere than an expected and formal intermission

I agree but as I say there has to be an official point where the intermission is to happen. A projectionist just stopping the show at the completion of reel six is just as disrupting.

Anyhow this has been discussed here elsewhere.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-18-2006, 08:27 AM:

The owner/manager of the cinema is the final authority; like a ship's captain. If this is unacceptable to the film company, don't book the film.

"Preferred location" is a good idea. I know of a theatre that ORDERED a special intermission trailer of Titanic that appeared to be supplied by the film co. He personally found a good spot and inserted it. No complaints....and concession sales soared. Louis

Posted by Kenneth Tiffany (Member # 3643) on 03-18-2006, 06:02 PM:

I, personally, would not go to a theatre that ran intermissions.

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 03-18-2006, 06:55 PM:

Of course there has to be an official point, decided by the makers, not an arbitary frame at random. And only for extra long films. I have been told that the main reason for NO BREAK is that we could fit in an exttra session. Obviously distributors have rubber clocks.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 03-18-2006, 07:58 PM:

When two projector Polarized 3-D films were released to theatres in the early fifties, they always used to be an intermission regardless of the running time of the film because of the necessity to change reels.

-Claude

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-18-2006, 09:16 PM:

quote: Kenneth Tiffany
I, personally, would not go to a theatre that ran intermissions

Even if it had one built in?

quote: John Koutsoumis
Any length?? This can't be true. Why would you place an intermission on "Casablanca" or "Citizen Kane" or any Hitchcock title. You mean of course films longer that 150 mins or so.

It really is a matter of culture. In India, EVERY film has an intermission. People expect it. When they get American films, I am told that when producers here export them, they put intermissions in, even in those films that the director over here insists he will not tolerate an intermission. On short films, over here we would scratch our heads and wonder why would you put an intermission, but over there if you didn't, your audience would revolt.

I think it is just self-importance arrogance on the part of a director (even one who thinks he's the king of the world) to think his film is more important than the people who are watching it. And the argument that it is too distracting to have an intermission, again, it's just ego run amuck since not only do people still take their own intermissions in these epics, but they take them at much less opportunistic points AND they disturb all those around them, so you are winding up with multiple disturbances instead of just one appropriately placed interval.

So how come TITANIC played India, there was an intermission built in, title and all, if it was so distracting. Evidently a place was found where an intermission was perfectly acceptable to both director and audience.

I know a lot of places had "equipment problems" during TITANIC --oddly enough, always around half-way through the film! [Big Grin]

Theatre managers, although they do have contractual obligations to the distributor -- you have to show the WHOLE film (including the credits) so I wouldn't say they have quite the same power of a captain of a ship -- we can't throw an unruly patron in the brig or marry anyone -- but we certainly have an obligation to the comfort of the patrons. Since patrons come back over and over, I look first to their comfort, especially since I am getting 100% of their concessions sales whereas the director by way of the distrib is giving me only 10% of the ticket sale. [Eek!]

Ignoring the inescapable reality that a 3 hour plus film causes unnecessary discomfort for a majority of patrons -- bodily functions will not be put aside by decree of some arrogant, self-aggrandizing director -- is not good management.

Posted by Paul Linfesty (Member # 214) on 03-19-2006, 12:07 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
especially since I am getting 100% of their concessions sales whereas the director by way of the distrib is giving me only 10% of the ticket sale.

100 percent of concessions sales? How is this possible? Are the concessions that theatres sold given to them for free?

And the distributors only let a theatre keep 10 percent of what is collected at the box office? That seems quite unlikely, since the strongest terms traditionally used have been 90 percent going to the distributor AFTER an agreed upon house allowance has been applied. Minimum floors would start at 70 percent applied to the straight gross and bottoming out at 35 percent. And at the NYC first-runs, the traditional arrangement included no floors, so that if a theatre with a $29,500 nut (allowance) grossed $30,000, the distributor would only get $450 of the box-office.

Today, the largest circuts have gotten some distributors to accept an averaged-out straight b.o. gross applied to the full run of the film (typically 50-55 percent of the box office for major distribs, 35 percent or so for independents).

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-19-2006, 06:20 AM:

Frank: my guy with the intermission in Titanic, had problems with them "peeing in the seats" since the good part of that film is at the end. Too good to leave; too late to hold it. Remember that the Coke that went in during the first hour comes out later, and, with short movies, we have trained them for 135 minutes.

Remember also, with long films there are fewer showings and therefore lower concessions sales. Think of that part as a partial recoup. Louis

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 03-19-2006, 02:14 PM:

I vote for intermissions in films over a certain length.
Easy to accomplish from the theatres side with automation and platters. Projector never shuts down.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-19-2006, 09:12 PM:

quote: Paul Linfesty
Today, the largest circuts have gotten some distributors to accept an averaged-out straight b.o. gross applied to the full run of the film (typically 50-55 percent of the box office for major distribs, 35 percent or so for independents).

If any indies have gotten such a "35 percent" deal, I'd love to hear about it. We had 2 movies last year that were 59.5% across the whole run.

Back on topic - I have always thought that any movie over 130 minutes should have an intermission. It's more necessary now than ever, thanks to oil-drum-sized beverages.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 03-19-2006, 10:20 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Back on topic - I have always thought that any movie over 130 minutes should have an intermission. It's more necessary now than ever, thanks to oil-drum-sized beverages.

Nice to see a few people here recognizing that. Our original 1949 building had 4 seats in the womens room (back when a large Coke was what... 8 ounces?). Our new building has 10, and the intermission lines still go out every available port.

Posted by John Joseph Fink (Member # 3619) on 03-21-2006, 04:12 PM:

I've even seen 3-hour "Bollywood" films without an intermission at a National Amusements house in East Hartford, which is odd since they clearly have a built-in intermission and it makes for an akward jump-cut (when the action slows down, then is recapped in a breif montage, then the narative starts back up). I've also seen Bollywood pictures at the Cineplaza in North Bergen, NJ - a house run by Indian distributer Cinecorp USA and they always take the intermission and use that time to run trailers before the film re-starts.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-21-2006, 04:42 PM:

Don't agree with showing trailers in an intermission of a long movie. Never have. The break is to have a pee, get some food, have a relax and think about what has been and what could be coming in the story...not to have Bruce Willis on screen blowing away another baddie and being told it's coming soon.

Two different movies with an intermission? No problems with the trailers...but in a break of a film it's a real no-no.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-21-2006, 06:56 PM:

quote: John Koutsoumis
Intermissions at Multiplexes don't work. No curtains, poor lighting, bad music, candy bar and toilets out side the valid ticket area, patrons losing tickets, etc etc.

These problems don't seem all that unsolvable. Consider:

- The film-maker can include 10 minutes of "intermission" film in the print. The intermission could be a simple title card with the word INTERMISSION, possibly with a countdown clock. The title card should be light in color, therefore the screen itself should provide enough light for people to get in and out. This way the projectionist would have to do "nothing." Perfect. (Better theatres should have enough automation firepower to be able to include a simple lights-up/lights-down cue in an intermission.)

- Since most plexes don't seem to check tickets at the auditorium door, that issue is no problem. If the restrooms and such are outside the ticketed area, a simple sign or a friendly warning from the cashier to "please keep your ticket stub if you want to leave the auditorium during intermission" should suffice. (Once people got used to intermissions, this problem would decrease.) The theatre could use the increased concession sales to pay an extra usher to watch the door during intermission time and have money left over.

NATO should work on this issue and forget the trailer-volume issue, which is now a near-total flop.

Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 03-21-2006, 08:01 PM:

Ah Louis, a voice of reason. Thank you. I would never give a distributor that much control over MY ship.

Posted by John Joseph Fink (Member # 3619) on 03-22-2006, 08:20 AM:

It should be noted the last time I've seen an intermission at a multiplex (aside from Bollywood movies at non-National Amusements sites) was during the re-release of Gone With The Wind in 1999. The lack of a break was one of those things I hated during King Kong and I saw it in a comfortable state of the art megaplex, imagine what patrons at a second-rate multiplex must feel. Clearly someone like Peter Jackson, who choses to make 3 hour-plus epics could use his clout, if he felt it nessisary to say "there will be a 10-minute intermission" and build it in. At theaters with expanded concession menus or bars it seems like a smart move as I agree it encourages revisiting the snack bar. The intermission mark should not be decided by a projectionist, the same way I think its wrong for National Amusements to splice out the intermission title card of a Bollywood picture and keep going, against the filmmaker's wishes. Protest would insue if the intermission was skipped over at the Cineplaza - but the intermission (as well as the Indian snacks sold at the concession) are part of that experience.

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 03-22-2006, 09:41 AM:

Gods & Generals was the last wide release with a built-in intermission. They had an intermission card, followed by 5-10 minutes of black leader, then back into the feature, so no cueing of the system or restart was necessary.

Posted by Jamie Glossop (Member # 2180) on 03-22-2006, 12:47 PM:

When i worked at my old cinema we had an intermission in lord of the rings and harry potter,

We had a little message popup on screen saying "intermission" and then the lights whould come up and the curtains close,

We'd allow up to 10 mins break for people to get food or go to the toilet and sometimes 15 mins.

Playing adverts in an intermission will break the mood i rekon,

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-22-2006, 12:50 PM:

quote: Mike Spaeth
intermission card, followed by 5-10 minutes of black leader, then back into the feature, so no cueing of the system or restart was necessary.

That's not quite true. If you have 10 minutes of black leader, the auditorium will be too dark. With my idea of a light-colored Intermission card with (or without) a countdown clock, no extra lighting should be necessary.

Posted by Dylan Marchetti (Member # 2764) on 03-22-2006, 11:36 PM:

My theater is now playing Bollywood, and we'd like to make a bit more of a production out of the intermission. So- can someone here, preferably an old-school showmanship kind of cat, walk me through how you'd do it, keeping in mind that:

-We have nice projectors, but only basic automation. We'd need to do the curtain and house lights manually, since reprogramming would erase the program for non-Bollywood films.

-We have a lovely curtain and we're not afraid to use it, though we want to do it correctly. I like the "nobody ever sees a blank screen" philosophy.

-We have a digital projector and the ability to easily author and burn a DVD to run on it during intermission, should we want to have a countdown clock, or music, etc. No desire to show ads or trailers during intermission, though, that's cheesy.

-We can't dim/raise the lights in our lobby, only the auditorium.

Also, if anyone is reading this from India, I'd be curious as to how they do/did it over there...

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 03-23-2006, 12:16 AM:

I don't know how basic your auto is but you could treat part one and part two as two different sessions, with normal curtain close/open. Place the cues at the end of part one just as you do for the end of the show. If you don't have an intermission film tag, a prominant sign in the lobby will serve - "There will be an intermission half way through this feature."

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 03-23-2006, 11:38 AM:

Hey I had forgotten all about "Gods and Generals". The one thing that I did remember was that one of the intermissions dropped right in the middle of the 7:00 set. Thankfully the movie was a major bomb or it really could have been a pain with all the customers mixing at the same time.

Posted by Derek Maxwell (Member # 234) on 03-24-2006, 10:02 PM:

I have had some theatres call me and say they had a long film to show and wanted to order an Intermission film to insert half way through and later said they would do it again in a heartbeat with longer films. The customers liked the break for the bathroom run and to get something at the snack bar. They told me the sales went through the roof. I personally like a break when the film is over 2 hours long.....just like being at the Drive-in.

Posted by John Pytlak (Member # 331) on 03-26-2006, 06:35 PM:

And what does your master booking contract say about adding an intermission? [uhoh]

I agree that movies longer than about 150 minutes should have an intermission. But the filmmaker should put it there, not the exhibitor.

[ 03-26-2006, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: John Pytlak ]

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 03-26-2006, 09:27 PM:

Spot on, John!

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 03-27-2006, 06:53 PM:

Back in the mid 1980's long films here were still supplied with an interval by the distributor. Multiple manning of the projection rooms in multiplexes had come in at this time, but the automation was able to handle it with no problems.

Our Kinoton automation simply stopped the projector, raised the house lights, flicked on a 35mm interval slide and switched to the appropriate interval music for the film. The built in delay was 10 minutes and then it would re-start automatically. The films generally came with "End Of Part One" tags and then "Part Two Begins" at the re-start.

It was really no problem at all. Advertising slides would often be run during the interval, but never motion advertisements or trailers. In the larger older complexes, curtains certainly improved the presentation, but as long as a blank screen was never seen (the golden rule of presentation) it was OK.

David

Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 04-02-2006, 08:20 PM:

Showing slides during interval?? That's terrible!!
Another reason to stay home.

quote: David Kilderry
...but as long as a blank screen was never seen (the golden rule of presentation) it was OK.

Well that's exactly what you see today when you take your seat at a Multiplex (over here anyway). Unless you are late of course and don't stay for the end credits.

Fortunately my multiplex going days are over since august last year.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 04-06-2006, 09:49 AM:

For as long as I can remember the big epics with intervals ran slides here. Curtains would close on playout music, stage lights up, then after several minutes the slides would start and run. At the conclusion the curatins would close, the playin would begin and then the cutain cue would trigger curtains open again.

This was always considered part of the presentation and was part and parcel of the big epics. No film ads or trailers, just slides with non-sync music. Most city theatres in those days did not have talkie slides, they were the domain of the drive-in.

Even the best projectionists I worked with did not consider this poor presentation.

David

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 04-06-2006, 07:22 PM:

It's is my experience, that after 130-140 minutes, the first signs of disturbance are there. One after another, patrons are going to the toilet or (dam' them) to the consession stand.
I believe, it's much better with an organised intermission, than a lot of people running in the dark. - But again, the dollar sets the way: If it means time for an extra show per day, the manager of a big theatre and the distributor will surely agree: No intermission. They aren't in there themselves to let others disturb their movie experience, so why bother..?
By the way: Danish cinemas had luck in discussion with Warner/Denmark: Some feet of "Intermission" in correct design was delivered with Potter-prints to use "as will".

Grumphy Per

Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 04-10-2006, 07:43 PM:

quote: David Kilderry
Even the best projectionists I worked with did not consider this poor presentation.

David i'm sure you and others put on a fine show back then but I disagree about the slides. But then the show must go on and you need to do what's required of you.

During the film festival last year at the Forum Theatre, I loathed turning on the slide projector before each show. But it had to done. Unless they are there for some special reason slides add a cheapo factor to show. Anyway that's my opinion.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 04-14-2006, 04:17 AM:

Horses for courses John. When I was projectionist on the Melbourne International Film Festival at the Forum in 1985 and 1986, no slides or advertising of any type were run. Essentially the presentation mode was always directed by the projection supervisors of the day (technical advisor in the case of MIFF, chief Engineer in the case of the major theatre circuits).

All of the Greater Union projectionists and assistants that ran it were under very strict presentation instructions, including bringing the theatre to complete darkness, opening the house curtains to half and then hitting the screen. This of course had no flow to it at all compared to the traditional presentation that we generally offered at the Forum.

Incidently between those two festivals the Forum in its final year as a commercial cinema had its longest run in its 57 years; Back To The Future. It ran from June 85 - June 86.

David

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-15-2006, 09:11 PM:

I think this idea that sticking in an extra show will garner the exhibitor windfall profits is a myth, especially today with the distributors getting much higher percentages than they did in the days of LAWRENCE OF ARABIA, MY FAIR LADY, 2001, etc. Depending on the size of the house and again on the percentage deal he's forced to eat, if he is only getting a small portion of the gate (which would be the case with blockbuster 2hr plus titles like TITANIC, LORD OF THE RINGS or HARRY POTTER) then eliminating just one show which will allow adding multiple intermissions in the other shows may net him a lot more take-home $$$ than he would by just sticking in one extra show. Remember it's the concessions per capita that nets the highest take-home $$$, not the ticket sale.

And there is the dilemma that John P. brought up, i.e., sticking in an intermission at some random spot not chosen by the filmmaker is really a disservice to the filmmaker and the audience as well. I'd put that in the same category as showing the film in the wrong aspect ratio. But there seems to be a solution that would throw it back to the filmmaker, and that would be to simply find out where the distributor puts the intermission when the film is shipped to foreign markets, like in India and Pakistan or other countries where they demand intermissions -- shouldn't be to difficult to get a hold of that information.

Mike's idea of a section of film with light background and the INTERMISSION title would be a perfect solution. The idea, however, that the best way to have it run smoothly would be to make sure the projectionist is elimated as much as possible from the process....sad indeed. [Frown]

And Derek, in your baliwick of snipes and trailers, do you have a simple Intermission snipe. May times I would have killed to get such a piece of film that I could use when the Intermission title was spliced off the print. I have plenty of various and sundry Intermission snipes that are designed primarily for double features, but to replace an intermission title in a film like CAMELOT or 2001, using any of those would be totally tacky and worse than just closing the curtain and doing an announcement that there will be an intermission. What is really needed is a snipe that I can use for any film that needs one -- a simple font, one word -- INTERMISSION -- white on a black background, preferably with a fade in and fade out. It would be great to have a couple of those for such emergencies.

Now if we can figure out a way to Crazy glue the fingers together of anyone who splices off the Intermission tags in prints that have them built in.... [evil]

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 04-15-2006, 11:32 PM:

Most of us agree that inappropriate intermissions are as bad as 150 minutes without a break. Also, that any intermission should be designed into the film as part of the presentation, just like the good old days, not simply added by anybody. Play out/play in used to be an essential part of the package. This is show business.

This probably belongs in the Dumb Things Projectionists Do thread, but here it is. A few decades ago, a print of West Side Story arrived about 10 minutes before it was due on screen. Fortunately, I thought, the print was head out, so we started projector 1 on time (though it is difficult to lace up with your fingers crossed).

The show ran according to plan until … midway through a spool, up came an INTERMISSION title. I was lacing up the other machine at the time. Neither projectionist nor ground staff was prepared for this. It was followed by the whole PART ONE ENDS then PART TWO BEGINS fiasco.

I had seen the film and there had not been an intermission, so this caught me by surprise. I suppose the distributor had added it after the city run. In the case of this film, it would have broken the magic.

Anyway, it taught me that it is better to always check the print and run a bit late than to be embarrassed by what is in the middle.

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-17-2006, 12:25 AM:

Hiya Ron

Was that the 88 re-issue of 'West Side Story' in Mag/opt? It was a great print (until some twit scratched it). If only we'd had FilmGuard back then... [Frown]

If so, it came with the intermission printed in.

Are you at Mt. Vic Flicks or Springwood Cinema?

John

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 04-17-2006, 12:39 AM:

Cheers John,
I'm pretty sure it was our first run, before we installed mag. Back in the 60s and 70s, I think every print we received had some scratches on them. But how do you get scratches on a mag print?
That reminds me, the first Aussie films from Colorfilm were Permafilm treated - you had to try really hard to scratch them.

Posted by John Koutsoumis (Member # 1855) on 04-18-2006, 07:34 AM:

quote: David Kilderry
When I was projectionist on the Melbourne International Film Festival at the Forum in 1985 and 1986, no slides or advertising of any type were run.

I can't recall the year or venue but I learned some time back that when the festival first ran a film advertisement it was practically booed and hissed off the screen by the capacity audience!! My, how times have changed...
Nonetheless at least the Forum is once again used by MIFF (in my opinion it's their best venue) and although it hasn't been given the attention of the Regent it's held up ok. It's a very special
Theatre and technically wise it's up there with the best.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 04-18-2006, 08:48 PM:

Whoa, Frank, you don't have an intermission snipe?
We have a few custom ones with our logo from Filmack, just
like our "Previews of Coming Attractions," "Our Feature Presentation," and "Our Short Subject." I thought "everybody" had one!

--jhawk

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-20-2006, 09:09 AM:

No no, John....I've got a whole rack of snipes with every thing from "Starts Friday" to "Plus Added Short Subjects" and of course "Intermission." But ALL of my "Intermissions" have either Filmack or NSS or some other company's backgrounds on them. Some are even animated. As I said, most of these are only appropriate for Intermissions between features in a double bill, most are NOT appropriate for sticking into prints that are supposed to have an intermission but some ahole has spliced it off. What I need is a snipe that is plain and simple. White letters on a black background -- a fade in and fade out -- with a black track. Yah, that's the other thing; most of mine have stock music on the track. These really shouldn't be used within a feature, ESPECIALLY a musical.