Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Policy on Late Customers.

This is topic Policy on Late Customers. in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://ft-forum.com/ft/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=001739

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 07-21-2006, 12:44 AM:

We seem to be exeriencing more and more customers arriving late to shows , many recently arriving over an hour late!

I find this frustrating and anoying to other patrons , disrupting those settled into the show.

I am curious as to what proceedures others may have in this area, do we have a cut off point where people are refused entry and deferred to another session? Or do we let them in at any point through the show ?

My personal view would be to close the session 15 minutes after feature start time. Would this be fair and correct ?

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 07-21-2006, 02:06 AM:

Yes Phil, I believe that to be fair and correct. Customers have been multiplexed over the past few years. They arrive at least 20 minutes after start to miss all the ads we don't screen. Those people don't read our information that we don't show ads.

We have a policy on some films that no one will be admitted after the start. Yes, they bitch and abuse us but we have to have a standard.

I recall a classic case when a woman demanded entry an hour into Mission Impossible. "I'll catch up," she protested. "There are people who have been in there from the beginning," I explained "And some of them are having trouble catching up!"

Posted by Phil Hill (Member # 371) on 07-21-2006, 02:49 AM:

As a consumer/patron that would be immensely annoyed at some jerk trampling thru the theatre that late; I think the same "penalty" should apply as if one is late for a credit card payment.

Tell them they would be admitted ***IF*** they paid a US$20.00 late fee...or they could purchase a ticket for a later show.

I'm SURE that would discourage most assholes! [thumbsup]

Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 07-21-2006, 03:31 AM:

Most of the companies/theatres I've worked for didn't have a cut off point. Theoretically, patrons could buy a ticket for the end credits. However, my current employer has a 30 minute cut-off; the ticketing system won't allow for sales after that point.

Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 07-21-2006, 10:07 AM:

People arrive all night long at our theatre, we think it's fine...............as long as they switch their headlights off!

David

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 07-21-2006, 10:31 AM:

quote:
we think it's fine...............as long as they switch their headlights off!

Good one

We also let people in throughout the night... usually.

When we're really full, we'll sometimes pull the plug shortly after the main show starts (roughly 15 minutes into the evening, and call it sold out, even though it may not be. At that point, there can be way too much driving back and forth, looking for a spot, and they don't always want the place our field people suggest.

At our indoor, we had a policy similar to what Christopher described... an automatic cutoff 20 minutes into the show. That was 20 minutes of show plus 10 minutes of trailers. It was also easy to enforce... I programmed the POS system to take that performance off the screen, so the staff couldn't sell a ticket if it got too late. With that as a rationale, nobody had problems explaining the situation to latecomers who might otherwise have tried to talk their way past the policy.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 07-21-2006, 10:56 AM:

Are late arrivals any more annoying than those who make bathroom runs, snack bar runs, or cell phone runs out and back in?

If your auditorium is half empty, I'd sell the ticket. If it's a close to full house (and therefore a situation where the late arrival spends ten minutes staring at the stadium tier while their eyes adjust so they can find one of the two or three available seats), I'd tell them the show was sold out.

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 07-21-2006, 11:06 AM:

At my theatre, the cut-off time is 30minutes after the show star time (which includes the Rolling Stock and Trailers time). Then, the Box Office Software advances to the next show time. Once that happens, we stop selling for a particular show time.

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 07-21-2006, 11:14 AM:

We have a "15 minute rule". At the last show, if no one shows for a movie 15min after it was suppose to start, we don't show it. Especially on Thursday nights. If a theater employee wants to see a movie that is leaving on thursday nights (at the last show), and there are no paying customers in that movie, I don't show it either. Most of our employees know that I'm anal on thursdays so they stay away.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-21-2006, 12:11 PM:

We don't run ads either, and we do get the occasional people who come in 45 minutes after showtime and say, "I haven't missed anything yet, have I?"

We don't have a set policy. If a movie is a dumb comedy or other mindless crap entertainment, we'll let people in whenever they want. If it's a serious adult-type movie like "The DaVinci Code," if they're more than 20 minutes late (for the feature) we'll strongly try to talk them out of it, but will still sell them a ticket if they insist. And then we pretty much hang with them until they've found a seat, to make sure they are quiet.

If we are anywhere close to sell-out we usually put up the "sold out" sign and stop selling all tickets when the feature begins.

Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 07-21-2006, 01:02 PM:

15 minutes on the weeknights, 20 minutes on weekends. Our software advances to the next show about 45 minutes after start time. Certain films attract customers who are habitualy late to begin with so I often start them even if nobody shows up when they are due to begin. Generally, however, somebody will come within the time permitted.

Does anybody still have (mostly) the senior citizen(s) who arrives half way through a movie, goes inside the auditorium, and then stays for the next show up to the point they originally were seated. I've been told by a few that back in the 20's and 30's operators ran shows continuously without set start times and this was an accepted form of attending a movie. Any truth to this?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-21-2006, 02:19 PM:

"This is where we came in." is a phrase that died sometimes in the '60's.

Cut them off early....when they "catch up" that requires TALKING! Thereby creating yet another problem. Louis

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-21-2006, 04:21 PM:

quote: Aaron Mehocic
I've been told by a few that back in the 20's and 30's operators ran shows continuously without set start times and this was an accepted form of attending a movie. Any truth to this?

This actually dates back to when movies were just mindless stuff to watch, not necessarily a story, but maybe dancers, or scenic features, stuff like that. Theatre marquees advertised "Continuous shows daily," so you could just go in when you wanted to and leave when you "came in" or watch it 3 or 4 times if you wanted. When movies started actually being stories, it took a long time for people to get out of that habit.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 07-21-2006, 07:14 PM:

Mike, I think some people never "got out of that habit." [Smile]

But then we had some old guy in Wordplay the other day complaining that the movie was going too fast for and we needed to slow it down for him. That was a new one.

Posted by Adam Martin (Member # 641) on 07-22-2006, 02:08 AM:

quote: The Evil Sam Graham
Are late arrivals any more annoying than those who make bathroom runs, snack bar runs, or cell phone runs out and back in?

They can be. I have often experienced some retard banging around in the back of the theater, feeling people up looking for the walls/seats, and shouting "OH MY GOD, IT'S SO DARK IN HERE!"

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-22-2006, 03:54 AM:

We don't sell tickets after the attraction reel and cartoon are over (usually 15min after the posted showtime). For live shows, the acts almost always specify when "late seating" can happen, usually during a pause between numbers. This is traditional and it is determined by the artist. On occassion some artists (the Paul Taylor Dance Company for one) will not let anyone be seated until the first intermission -- talk about getting people's undies in a knot! Remember, these are people who already have paid tickets, sometimes very expensive tickets. While they are waiting in the lobby for that brief window to open for them to be seated, they can watch the performance on monitors in the lobby. The monitors went along way to preventing near riots.

For films, though, either they get their butts into the seats sometime between the attraction reel and the feature or they have to wait until the next show. We don't allow them to flop and flounder round amongst folks who got in on time and are already watching the movie. We have signs that say: So as not to disturb our seated patrons, tickets to this show will not be sold after the main feature starts. For live performances: So as not to disturb our seated patrons, Late Seating will commence only at times specified by the artists. Please enjoy today's performance on the monitors in the Grand Lobby until you are seated by our ushers.

The answer to the stupid question, "Did I miss anything?" asked by the patron who arrives 15 min into the feature (and thus 30 mins late for the posted showtime) would be, "Actually, you missed this show entirely -- those tickets are no longer on sale. Would you like to buy a ticket for the next show?" For the occasional disgruntaled patron who demands to know why we will not sell a ticket when the house is not sold out, he usually will accept the explanation that the computer will not sell tickets after the show starts. They seem to think that if a computer won't do it, then no human will be capable of reversing it and they go strangely mute, which is the way we like our patrons. [Wink]

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 07-22-2006, 04:03 AM:

one annoying behavior doesn't excuse the other. and cell phone breaks should be disallowed, although that's pretty unenforceable. probably best to allow bathroom breaks.

back when i sold tickets regularly i would strongly discourage or refuse latecomers, especially to our upstairs theaters, which are almost impossible to navigate without interfering with sightlines.

Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 07-22-2006, 06:25 PM:

If we have any latecomers, our box office staff phone up for 'permission' to admit them. We can then assess how disruptive it would be to let them in. It's a good system and works well, often the decision is made immediately as we keep a close check on the auditoriums.

On a different note, Does anyone else delay start times if it looks like customers are still in the concession/ticket queues on unexpectedly busy sets? We're kinda proud that we bother, but we're not sure anyone actually notices!

Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 07-22-2006, 08:20 PM:

I will delay a film if there is a back-up at the stand or box.

When I used to work for a theatre chain in the eighties and nineties - they had 'late admission' tickets. Anyone ever notice that most late comers are usually late to the last show of the evening? I noticed in my travels that this lateness tends to be prevalent in the big cities -Miami, Vegas, New York, Chicago etc. Also, if the film is an empty mindless bloodfest or action pic - they show up late knowing they don't need to know the story line to get their enjoyment out of the movie.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 07-23-2006, 12:27 AM:

Usually, we let people in unless its a busy show.

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 07-23-2006, 10:44 AM:

quote: Andy Muirhead
On a different note, Does anyone else delay start times if it looks like customers are still in the concession/ticket queues on unexpectedly busy sets?

We dont really have to bother when we have almost 20 minutes of preshow before the feature. I will instruct the person in the booth to keep the house lights on through part of the preshow to give customers time to find seats. This is a pretty rare occurance as we have done a pretty decent job of "training" our customers to show up early enough to get food and be seated.

Actually we may have trained them too well as for opening weekend of Pirates 2, we had lines of 250 people strong snaking outside in the mall 20 minutes before the show was suppose to start waiting to get in.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 07-23-2006, 11:14 AM:

We (as a college single-screen) will delay the show if it looks like the concessions are out-of-hand.

The really neat trick, in my book, is when we can manage to delay by adding more trailers. Since we're changeover, it's straightforward to edit the trailer reel up until 5 minutes or so before it starts. So if we can tell in advance of trailers that things look out-of-control, adding more trailers is feasable.

Though the most fun is if the trailer reel is already running and we decide we need to delay, if we can manage it, it's possible to unthread reel one and put up more trailers on the other projector, changeover after the current trailer finishes, then changeover back and thread-up reel 1 again quickly (alternatively, we can add trailers to the head of reel 1). This almost never happens, but it sure is cool when it does. [thumbsup]

(I guess another approach would be for us to run a 16mm short in there somewhere. Those of you who have three or more 35mm projectors in the booth probably have other neat tricks that can be done, too [Smile]

).

--jhawk

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 07-24-2006, 02:26 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
We (as a college single-screen) will delay the show if it looks like the concessions are out-of-hand.

this is especially an issue when the concessions are down at the front of the auditorium, eh?

Posted by Andrew Peter Chobaniuk (Member # 3886) on 07-24-2006, 04:56 AM:

theres no cut off at my theatre, if someone really wants to see a movie an hour into it, its their loss, not ours

never recieved a complaint of latecomers creating a problem, its just like someone getting up to go to the washroom.
should we a have a bathroom cut off time.... [thumbsup]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 07-24-2006, 09:15 AM:

Bathroom runs are a disturbance, but a necessity. Why add additional, unnecessary disturbances for the audience by allowing the jerks to rule?

As for holding, live shows we will hold for a variety of legitimate reasons (performers and stage crew need more time, FOH has crowd control issues, etc.). But for films that are on a schedule, we might hold for a few minutes; we have preshow music that is programmed for time and that can be adjusted, but you don't want to hold any more than what you will be able to compensate for before the next show, otherwise you run the risk of throwing off the schedule. And we only run three shows; in a commercial house where you run all day long, I would image that holding has the potential for really messing up the schedule for later shows.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-24-2006, 12:38 PM:

If we're running a real popular show I'll put a couple of extra trailers on, and leave 30 minutes or more between shows to allow for a bit of hold time. If things are calm during that time, there's always something to clean.

Posted by Kara Tillotson (Member # 3899) on 07-24-2006, 06:08 PM:

we dont really have a policy regarding late arrivers. Its sort of their loss if they want to pay full price and miss a lot of it. Howver, when I am in plays at the local "acting" theatre, we will not let late-comers in untill the intermission or an "acceptable" time.
I do agree with the comment that a late person is not going to be any more distinguishable than people using the bathroom or getting concessions.

Posted by Andy Muirhead (Member # 712) on 07-24-2006, 06:33 PM:

quote: Michael Gonzalez
We dont really have to bother when we have almost 20 minutes of preshow before the feature.

Only 20? We usually have 25. And they still turn up late. [Roll Eyes]

Kara, Welcome to FT, and I'll welcome you by disagreeing with you! I'd say there's a big difference between latecomers and customers going to the toilet - latecomers are more often than not in numbers, searching for seats, maybe even talking amongst themselves "oh its dark in here" etc, their late, they have been rushing, not yet in the movie theatre settled mode, where generally people that get up to the toilet are quieter, they know where they are sitting, they usually go alone etc, you know.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-24-2006, 07:59 PM:

Andy, you are right-on. Late-comers are MUCH more annoying than bathroom-goers. At least potty people already know where they're sitting, they have their coat off, and they know their way around. Latecomers are a noisy nuisance.

Posted by Kara Tillotson (Member # 3899) on 07-24-2006, 08:46 PM:

Yeah I know what you mean in reference to noisy latecomers. I guess I was making the reference to latecomers that were quiet coming in. So I zoned out on that one...... [sleep]

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 07-31-2006, 09:20 PM:

If we can see the floor staff still cleaning whilst we are lacing up or ready to start the next performance we will call down to managment and ask if they want us to delay by a few minutes.

Latecomer issues need a pragmatic approach. If the auditorium is under half full it won't be too much of a disturbance, besides because of our 'unlimited' scheme (look at www.cineworld.co.uk) customers like to watch the first half then the second half at another time. However if you've sold say 90% of the seats it's probably best to block off the rest and say the screen is sold out at the start of the feature.

Latecomers are far more annoying than toilet breakers. I was in a Bollywood film this evening, and as our chain is now starting to show these films as exclusives in Central London the customers aren't regulars and don't know parking is impossible. People were arriving after 20mins of ads/trailers and nearly 30mins of the film.

quote: Allison Parsons
At the last show, if no one shows for a movie 15min after it was suppose to start, we don't show it.

Aren't you contractually obliged to show it regardless? That was what I got told by a manager anyway.

Posted by Tom Petrov (Member # 1534) on 07-31-2006, 10:06 PM:

My policy is 30 minutes or they cant buy tickets

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 07-31-2006, 10:16 PM:

quote: John Hawkinson
The really neat trick, in my book, is when we can manage to delay by adding more trailers. Since we're changeover, it's straightforward to edit the trailer reel up until 5 minutes or so before it starts. So if we can tell in advance of trailers that things look out-of-control, adding more trailers is feasable.

Though the most fun is if the trailer reel is already running and we decide we need to delay, if we can manage it, it's possible to unthread reel one and put up more trailers on the other projector, changeover after the current trailer finishes, then changeover back and thread-up reel 1 again quickly (alternatively, we can add trailers to the head of reel 1). This almost never happens, but it sure is cool when it does.

John, why don't you just build a 20 minute trailer pack with the trailers you want shown for sure at the beginning, then let them run until such point that the management is ready for the feature to begin. At that point, changeover at the end of the currently playing trailer.

You make things unnecessarily difficult! [Razz]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 07-31-2006, 11:36 PM:

quote: Caleb Johnstone-Cowan
Aren't you contractually obliged to show it regardless? That was what I got told by a manager anyway.

No, you are not required to run a show to an empty auditorium.

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 08-01-2006, 07:47 AM:

Because, Brad, we like to make things difficult! [Smile]

The real answer is that, in general, it's extremely rare for us to want to do this, so it wouldn't be worth the bother regularly. Also, we have preshow material on the end of the trailer reel ("Our Feature Presentation" and the relevant digital sound snipe) which saves us from having to edit the head of reel one when we switch movies.

--jhawk

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 08-01-2006, 09:42 PM:

quote: Dennis Benjamin
I will delay a film if there is a back-up at the stand or box.

No offense Dennis.. but if you staff accordingly, there is never a need to delay a show. We never delayed a show, but we also had a minimum of 20 minutes of preshow content, as the industry has so aptly named it.. [Roll Eyes]

Taking into consideration, there are those odd times that you get 'hit' unexpectedly, but, given the nature of 'regular' business, there should never be a need to delay a show and punish those who were on time for those who were not.

Either way, I always hated folks who came in late and trained my cashiers to notify them that they had already missed xx minutes of the feature.. but we can pre sell you a ticket for the next show. 7 times outta ten, it worked and everyone was happy.. unless they were there for the last show of the night..

Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-02-2006, 09:05 AM:

During the week nights at the drive-in, it can be a hit or miss as far as attendance goes. If at time to start the shows, if I have people watching on one screen and no one has shown up for the second screen, I'll go ahead and start the projector on the empty side but not strike the lamp. If someone shows up late, I then strike the lamp and they get to start watching the movie from whatever point the movie happens to be playing.

Since I have to be there anyway for the screen with customers, if nobody ever shows up during the un-lit first feature on the second screen I won't even play the second feature on that side.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-02-2006, 12:51 PM:

quote: Jason Black
but if you staff accordingly, there is never a need to delay a show.

Personally, I would rather have the show start a bit late with most of the people seated, than have a pack of last-minute arrivals ruining the first few minutes of the feature bumping around in the dark trying to find seats. If that happens, the ones being punished are the ones who were on time!

Posted by Ron Curran (Member # 3631) on 08-02-2006, 07:27 PM:

I agree with you absolutely, Mike.

Posted by Jason Black (Member # 684) on 08-06-2006, 10:19 AM:

Not knowing what Dennis has for 'pre-show content', I'd still say that, for the most part, your audience shoudl be in and seated prior to the start of the film, given proper staffing.

This is a no win situation. You either punish those who show up early by starting the film late.. or, as you noted Mike, you punish those who show up early by allowing th elate comers in.

This very well could be another reason that many folks prefer to watch the DVD or PPV at home, on a plasma or big screen.

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 08-19-2006, 07:42 PM:

I hate it when customers come in real late and ask if the movie has started yet and after we say "the movie has been on for about 20 minutes" they often ask "but thats all the previews" than they get mad at US when we tell them it's the actual film thats been on for 20 minutes like it's our falt they were late. We only put on 2 trailers plus the attatched trailer, sometimes we'll put on 3, it depends on the movie.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 08-21-2006, 03:36 AM:

Policy: 15 minutes after posted showtime no more tix.
Trailers: Max 10 minutes including attachment, DTS logo, and rolling stock

We run every virtually every show Fri-Sun. If nobody shows the rest of the week we'll usually not start the slower films. Then again if someone shows up within that 15 minutes I'll show it regardless.
My attitude is as long as it's not bothering someone else, I'll be glad to take your money [Wink]