Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Payroll Cost per Admission

This is topic Payroll Cost per Admission in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 07-21-2006, 05:29 PM:

Is there an industry standard, or guideline, as to what a theatre's payroll cost per admission should be? RTS provides a Cost Per Admission statistic in the Weekly Deposit Recap report, but I need some basis for comparison, like a standard. Thanks!

Posted by Matt Whitney (Member # 2909) on 07-21-2006, 07:11 PM:

Ours is typically between $.85 to $.95. We always try to keep it under $1.00.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 07-21-2006, 08:09 PM:

Play with your staffing until you find a good mix of customer service, to "stand around" ratio. Basically, see what staffing level provides low wait times in lines for your customers and clean orderly lobbies and restrooms with no extra dead weight standing around and use the number generated as your target.

Not every building in every area is the same so an industry standard of staffing levels would be impossible.

Posted by Stephen LaPadula (Member # 3050) on 07-22-2006, 11:42 PM:

From my experience in NY, any 'busy theatre' (in comparison to screen count)should be less than $1.00 per person, however many 'smaller, less busy' theatre are over $1.00 per person. Not so much an issue as long as you can turn a profit.

Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 07-23-2006, 05:24 AM:

How I miss my first run days...

I currently work at a sub run theatre, where the goal is to keep payroll below .50. As if that isn't low enough, I'm also in California, where the minimum wage is $6.75.

quote: Sean McKinnon
Not every building in every area is the same so an industry standard of staffing levels would be impossible.

I wish more people would realize that. In addition to varying financial differences between areas, some theatres require more/less staff based on building design/layout.

Posted by Matt Fields (Member # 3211) on 07-23-2006, 08:17 AM:

I'm a little under $1.00 - Matt

Posted by Michael Gonzalez (Member # 593) on 07-23-2006, 10:11 AM:

quote: Christopher Crouch
some theatres require more/less staff based on building design/layout.

That is a very important point that not a lot of corporate offices seem to grasp.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 07-23-2006, 09:48 PM:

Suits!! Louis

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 03-29-2009, 06:45 PM:

It has been 979 days since the last post.

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 03-29-2009, 06:45 PM:

Hi all,

I'm bumping this thread up because my searches didn't reveal any more-recent discussion related my question. I think my question is only just a wee-bit off topic...

I've seen a decrease, in the past 8 months, in per capita revenue at our concession stand. People seem to be sharing drinks/snacks and/or not buying anything. For several months I tried adding some staff, knowing I was increasing my "stand-around" costs. Hasn't seemed to help much.

Also, planning/scheduling staffing has gotten trickier with doing as many Monday to Friday bookings as we are. Traditionally we schedule monthly. (Our subrun twin is open four days: fri-sun most of the year. Small market. Next closest theater is 35 miles north.) Most of our staff is in high school and they have other lives, so they like to plan ahead.

This has gotten more and more difficult because we also have a tradition of all the staff staying through the shows (cleaning, etc.). Often they get paid to do homework when I just can't think of anything else for them to do.

What I'm bumping up against, if you haven't already guessed, is that I'm scheduling staff 3 or 4 weeks out when I *don't really know* what titles I'll be getting.

So I'm wondering if other schedulers are running into this. What are other folks doing? Scheduling weekly? Bi-weekly? Just calling around and adding somebody when a "big" title is finally booked?

I'm considering scheduling more staff for seating only and just have one or two stay on after to clean up/restock, etc. So a Friday might see 4 for an hour and 1 for the whole evening. As opposed to, say, 3 for the entire evening. Big downside of that is it really cuts hours for most staff and then do they really want to keep the job...??? I keep a large roster (11 right now) and still the other day it was me and one other guy doing everything when I needed two more. *everyone* was doing something else and two on the schedule had family emergencies.

I'm not sure how clear all that was. Sorry for boring you with my woes. I'm just curious how others are doing this. The way we've been doing it for six years (yes, I'm still *that* new to this business) doesn't seem to be working as well as it did for the first 5 years.

Any thoughts?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-29-2009, 07:48 PM:

Greg
I would recommend going back and looking at your per caps from week to week based on your top movies. I'm sure you'll find that weeks where your top movies target an older audience, your per caps are considerably lower than weeks where you have family movies or those that appeal to a more general audience. This would be something you can take into consideration from week to week when making your schedule.

I had never tracked payroll per admission before, but looking at 2009 YTD, I'm at $0.76 - excluding my salary. For busier weeks it's been as low as $0.65 for the pay period and for slower weeks it's been as high as $0.96. For the slower weeks we run with only 3 employees on weekdays and I can't really justify running with any less.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 03-30-2009, 12:54 AM:

quote: Greg Haas
Most of our staff is in high school and they have other lives, so they like to plan ahead.

Change your schedule so that it is put out Monday (after you have the bookings) for the upcoming weekend. 4 days notice. We've been doing this for 13+ years and have no complaints. Present it to your staff as the bonus of them being able to ask off with less required notice. I have polled my staff several times over the years and they always have voted in favor of keeping the schedule as is rather than doing it farther ahead. High School kids don't plan ahead 4 hours much less 4 weeks, unless they have a family trip or something they would know far in advance anyway.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 03-30-2009, 01:29 AM:

I'm with Chad. My work schedules run Friday-Thursday and I always post them Monday evening; all time off requests have to be in by Monday afternoon. By doing it weekly, it's easier to take into account business fluctuations based on the movies.

One thing I do to deal with special events like proms, spring break, Christmas break, etc. is I post a special sheet a month ahead of time to get them thinking about what they will be doing. This not only causes them to figure out their plans, it also gives me a heads up about any potential staffing problems.

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 03-30-2009, 10:14 AM:

Thanks for the suggestions. I would really like to move to a weekly schedule from our monthly one.

Most of my employees do actually plan ahead. They see the monthly schedule and make plans for when they're not "on". This makes it difficult to find replacements when someone does need to change the schedule.

I think posting a month (or two) calendar where they can request "no work" days will help with moving to a weekly scheduling regimen. I hate scheduling. I think this is one of the reasons we started with a monthly thing. Hoping to only have to do it once a month. End up doing it several times a month anyway because of calls from kids who *didn't* plan ahead.

I'm glad to know that it is not unreasonable to do it weekly.

I was also just thinking of scheduling an "alternate" that could be notified on Monday whether or not he'd be working the following weekend. But I don't see why I can't do that for all the employees for the next weekend. I can make up the base schedule once a month but post it weekly with necessary changes.

I'm grateful for this forum which helped me think this through.

all best,
Greg

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-30-2009, 01:39 PM:

quote: Greg Haas
I think posting a month (or two) calendar where they can request "no work" days will help with moving to a weekly scheduling regimen. I hate scheduling. I think this is one of the reasons we started with a monthly thing. Hoping to only have to do it once a month.

We keep one of those large "write-on" calendars in the crew room and I do our scheduling on the 25th of each month. Before that date rolls around, the kids are allowed to write in the days they need off in the next month for things they must attend, such as sports events (when they're playing), family trips and such. We don't allow them to take days off for "fun" events like school dances and so on, because then we'd wind up with days when no one would want to work. We do guarantee them all Prom Night off and we try to be fair -- everyone has to miss a fun event now and then.

Once the schedule is made for the month, they are allowed to get a substitute to work for them if they wish, as long as they keep us informed about who will be working. We make it clear that it's THEIR job to get a sub and if they can't find one, they'd better show up themselves. They're not allowed to just call in and tell us they won't be showing up. They're also not allowed to get a "newbie" to work for them unless said newbie has been on the job at least a few months.

Once the schedule is finalized, I transcribe it into an Excel spreadsheet and it's posted on our website so the kids can check it anytime. We just started doing the online schedule a couple of months ago and it's really gone over well.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 03-30-2009, 04:44 PM:

I'm getting curious again: When You mention payroll under 1$ per ticket, how much then is Your average ticket price ?

Per

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 03-31-2009, 11:09 AM:

I have always compared attendance against money spent for labor, so ticket price would not have anything to do with it. You want to look at how many cents you are spending on payroll for each customer that comes in the door. Then you can determine how appropriate your staffing levels are. What the customer spends is different. At the concession stand, what your customers spend per person could indicate staffing issues, but it really shouldn't matter at the box office.

Greg - regarding your original issue of diminishing per caps, there are a host of ideas all over this forum about increasing concession sales. Perhaps by searching around a little you may find a couple that will help your situation.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 04-01-2009, 02:14 PM:

When I scheduled, I made the schedule every Monday and made sure there were always three weeks of schedule posted. This gave employees time during the current schedule (week #1) to request changes and get them approved so when week #3 rolled around management wasn't left with a bunch last minute surprises.

It worked very well for both employees and managers, because employees who during the current week felt they were working too much could request fewer hours on the new schedule and vice versa. All this left for them was to work the remainder of week 1 (Tue-Thu) and week #2 (Fri-Thu) before their hours toned down. Likewise, if an employee wanted to work more hours, it would give them time to convince other employees to give up their shifts and get it all approved.

Unless you're running a SUPER tiny theatre or are in a very competitive market, you're going to have the same general labor needs from week to week, so I didn't have too much problem with it.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 04-01-2009, 05:29 PM:

I have to respectfully disagree with you there, Scott. Labor needs can change dramatically week to week, regardless of the size of complex or if you have competition. Just look at this winter/spring so far. January and February were unpredictably busy, with most theatres reporting grosses exceeding those they had seen during the same period in years, if not decades. Many managers had to quickly adjust to increased staffing needs. Then, most of March dropped off to snoozeville, until last weekend when it got busy again, at least for those with 3D. I predict Fast and Furious to play well at nights, so this coming weekend should be good for early April too. Add to it localized exceptions such as spring breaks, how certain genres play at your location, what you are opening (or not opening) if you have competition, concerts or other events coming to town, etc. and the business can change quite a lot week to week. I know at my location, from one weekend to the next in March, I had a difference in 4 employes working during a certain shift. That is 15% of my staff, so that's quite a difference. That is why I do my schedules weekly.

That being said, different systems work at different locations, so whatever is the best, go with it.

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 04-03-2009, 10:02 AM:

quote: Chad Souder
so ticket price would not have anything to do with it.

Chad: If that was an answer to me, I may not have asked correct: Sitting in Europe, I have no idea of the strength of The Allmighty $ - that is: How much You get for Your money in general. The average ticket price might entlighten me.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-03-2009, 01:02 PM:

The average employee hourly wage is the important number, not ticket price. In California the minimum wage is $8.00 and our average wage is a little under $9.00. So for every employee hour worked we want to have at least 9 people coming in the door.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 04-03-2009, 01:32 PM:

Per,

According to the National Association of Theatre Owners, average ticket prices in the United States for 2008 was $7.18.

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 04-04-2009, 09:36 PM:

I, too, have always done the schedule just one week at a time, posted Monday night for the following Fri-Thu.
The only exception is during Christmas time.

Once the schedule is posted, it is the employee's responsibility to get an appropriate replacement if they want off.
Our motto on schedule requests is "The first two get it, the rest can forget it." Prom and some family obligations may be exceptions.
We keep a calander posted with all the upcoming requests already turned in on it. So the employees can see who all has requested off and when they requested it, so everyone knows who gets first dibs at the day.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-06-2009, 04:59 PM:

quote: Chad Souder
According to the National Association of Theatre Owners, average ticket prices in the United States for 2008 was $7.18.

That must include budget-priced theaters, because the Milwaukee area (certainly can't be the high priced leader in the country) hasn't seen sub-$8 first-run ticket prices since 2001.

Out of curiosity, I've been tracking adult evening prices at a local first-run theater over the years:

Marcus Ridge Cinema Ticket Prices

Ticket Price History - Adult Tickets
4/6/2009 - $9.50 (Children & Senior Matinee prices also increased by $0.25)
1/13/2009 - $9.00 (Adult Matinee, and Children & Senior Evening prices increased by $0.25)
5/9/2008 - $9.00 (Children & Senior, and Adult Matinee prices increased by $0.25)
4/25/2007 - $9.00
4/1/2006 - $8.75
5/30/2003 - $8.50
11/13/2002 - $8.25
4/24/2001 - $8.00

Marcus' premier theater in the area, the Majestic, just crossed the $10 mark, a first for the area. And that's before the upcharges for UltraScreen and VIP seating!

I'd be curious to know where you can see a first-run movie for less than $7.18 these days!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-06-2009, 07:08 PM:

quote:
I'd be curious to know where you can see a first-run movie for less than $7.18 these days!

Roxy Theatre in Forsyth, MT - $6.75
Montana Theatre in Miles City, MT - $6.50
Centre Cinema in Hardin, MT - $6.50
Washoe Theatre in Anaconda, MT - $4.00 (yes, it's true)

I'm sure there are hundreds more but these are the ones I know about. They all have digital sound, too. All offer most shows either on the break or within 4 weeks, except the Washoe which plays a couple of weeks later.

The average ticket price takes kid and senior discounts into account, too. All of the theatres listed above offer kid tickets for under $5.00. The Washoe is $3.00 for kids.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 04-07-2009, 11:02 AM:

quote:
I'd be curious to know where you can see a first-run movie for less than $7.18 these days!

The link you provided lists adult matinee tickets as $7.00. Kids and seniors are obviously cheaper. The Majestic you mentioned is $7.50 for adult matinees. It looks like the Milwaukee area is sub-$8 first-run right now!

Keep in mind average ticket price is just that - the average of all ticket types from all day parts from every theatre in the country.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 04-07-2009, 05:04 PM:

It's good to hear that some theaters are able to keep a handle on prices, and not get grief from their distributors as a result. I've heard that some theaters in Michigan (non-metro areas) are able to keep their prices down as well.

Yes, I know that Matinees are cheaper than the stated average price, but I guess I was thinking of Evening Prices.

What percentage of movie tickets are matinee vs. evening?

When the matinee prices end at 5:30pm, my assumption is that a majority of ticket sales are evening-priced.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 04-08-2009, 10:23 AM:

That's going to vary theatre to theatre. Some end matinees at 2:30. Some have early morning shows that are even cheaper. Some don't even open until the 7:00 set. Many run 3 matinee sets and two evening sets. Midnight shows and 3D presentations often command a higher price. There are a whole bunch of variables that enter the equation, so that's why they just use that average. My guess is that $7.18 will jump this year with all the 3D expansion.

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 04-09-2009, 01:37 PM:

Our ticket prices are $4.50 and $5.50. Average is just under $5.00. During the winter we have four days open with two matinees and four evening showings. 6 showings all weekend. Twin theater.

Open all week in the summer.

Minimum wage is $6.55. Some employees make more than that. Not telling, in this here public forum, how many! [Razz]

We see a *huge* variation in what we need for staff depending on title. Especially when a runtime is longer than 2.5 hours. We clean between shows and need to have the counter staffed as well.

So what I'm gonna try is having a base schedule and staff are expected to check each monday (online calendar or posted in staff/supply room) for changes/additions. This way busy titles will be a boon for employees, eh? [Wink]

Thanks again for all the followup discussion. Very helpful!

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 04-09-2009, 02:45 PM:

Be careful about security when it comes to on-line posting of schedules. Schedules are personal information and should not be posted in any way that is accessible to the general public. Unless a url is behind some sort of log-in portal, it can be accessed by anyone.

Posted by Greg Haas (Member # 1804) on 04-10-2009, 01:54 PM:

Of course! One has to guess the login *and* password to see anything on our schedule.

And I only use first names. (or nicknames if there's two ppl with same first name)

thanks!

Posted by Per Hauberg (Member # 529) on 04-14-2009, 07:47 PM:

Thanks for lots of answers.

To compare:

Ground Floor Employee minimum 93 DKK = 16,17 US$
Booth ditto 130 DKK = 22,60 US $

One US $ in Bank: 5,75 DKK

CINEMA TICKET normal evening, first run Big city: 80 DKK = 14 US$
ditto, Small place (by me) 70 DKK = 12 US $

GAS unleaded, 95 octane: 9 DKK = 1,56 US$

HOT MEAL Cafeteria: 50-60 DKK = 9,50 - 10.40 US$

DVD Australia (out this week): 180 DKK = 13,90 US$

BEER, normal strength 0,33 litre in Mall: 5 DKK = 0,86 US$

COCA-COLA 0,5 litre in Mall: 10 DKK = 1,75 US$

BEER in Bar off Main Street 25 DKK = 4,50 US $

BEER tourist/fancy place 50-60 DKK = 9,50-10,40 US$

One family suburb house with small garden: 2.000.000 = 347.826 US$

KINOTON 2K DIGITAL PROJECTOR: 825.000 DKK = 143.478 US$ (+vat)

REALLY NICE CINEMA CHAIR (Norvegian Skeie): 2.500 DKK = 434 US $ (+vat)

FREIGHT 6 REEL 35mm PRINT NATIONAL: app 250 DKK = 43 US $

and now hold on:

CHEVY CAPTIVA 2,0 5 seat, 5 doors 435.000 DKK = 76 US$

FORD FIESTA 1,4 aut 5 doors 207.000 Dkk = 36.000 US$

BMW M3 aut 1.493.050 DKK = 259.660 US$

No wonder, used car are getting old here, eh ?

[beer]