Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Pirates 3 is 168 minutes???

This is topic Pirates 3 is 168 minutes??? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-16-2007, 02:14 AM:

Good grief.

Whatever happened to a decent pair of scissors when it comes to movie lengths? How on earth can a film like this not get its (already) way overlong story told within 2 hours?

Common sense over director's egos every time.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 05-16-2007, 03:48 AM:

This third installment might have so much action that the 168m might just disappear without even realizing it.

(after seeing the clips from the presentations at Showest, I think that the running time will not be that all noticable..)

Posted by Ian Woloschin (Member # 3709) on 05-16-2007, 09:24 AM:

The running time will quickly become very noticeable as soon as it's run on an old changeover booth...like mine...

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 05-16-2007, 11:04 AM:

Or a drive-in that can't start films until 8:30 or 9pm and promises double features every night.

Posted by Richard P. May (Member # 3598) on 05-16-2007, 11:31 AM:

Ian,
Why would the picture seem longer run with two projectors than one with a platter?
More activity for the projectionist, sure, but the audience wouldn't know the difference.

DM

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-16-2007, 12:45 PM:

We run a drive-in. Double features are a fact of life. I don't care about the film length. If the customers want to see it and patronize the place, I'm open and ready to go. I'll sleep in Tomorrow! [Smile]

We went to the screening yesterday. Pirates ran 2 hours and 40 minutes to the start of the end credits. Add around another 6-ish for the credits and the end bit that's been on all the Pirates shows.

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 05-16-2007, 03:39 PM:

I'm not worried about having to stay late (I'm the auditor) - I'm more worried about customers not wanting to come see the 9 o'clock show because they know it'll be out late and by the time the second feature starts it'll be near 11:30.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-16-2007, 03:41 PM:

Are we still talking about drive-ins? If we are, I'd note that our busiest months are July and August, when the shows don't even start until around 10pm.

It seems that owners worry about this far more than the patrons do.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 05-16-2007, 05:18 PM:

Looks like it is coming with an intermission to some cinemas in the UK! Guess they've got the projectionists bicyclying a print.

Posted by Michael Brown (Member # 890) on 05-16-2007, 05:40 PM:

I've just seen the schedule at my UK multiplex.

We are running prints both with and without intermision.
We have 12 showings a day, 6 with intermissions and 6 without.
Showing in 5 auditoriums (2 are an inter-lock).

We were advertise the timings to the public so they can choose If they want a showtime with an intermission or one without.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-16-2007, 06:17 PM:

The first one was ok, the second one sucked, the third one won't get my attention except for the interlock systems I'm in the middle of installing for it. Print quantities are supposedly more limited than usual. After I'm done with these installs... I'll forget about it completely in about an hour.

Mark

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-16-2007, 06:55 PM:

Like Jack, I find most of the patrons don't care too much about the second show not ending until around 3:30am. You won't see as many of the locals sticking around for the second feature but they'll be lots of cottagers and tourists around.

My only concern is with triple and quad features allowing me enough time to get a bite to eat before heading to work for 8am.

Posted by Ian Woloschin (Member # 3709) on 05-16-2007, 10:31 PM:

quote: Richard P. May
Ian,
Why would the picture seem longer run with two projectors than one with a platter?
More activity for the projectionist, sure, but the audience wouldn't know the difference.

DM

That's exactly what I meant [Wink]

. We do two showings a week, back to back on Sunday nights. Last year they booked Pirates 2 for Parents Weekend, which meant we did an additional two showings (one Friday, one Saturday). Needless to say, late Sunday evening...I mean early Monday morning...we were very happy to pack up the print and ship it far away.

I really like having a changeover booth, it's more interesting than platters...until you get a movie like that. Then I wish I had a platter so I could start it up and take a nap!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-17-2007, 02:30 AM:

I'm not talking about running it and being late out...it's simply from a film-making / script writing point of view.

It's a movie about a pirate for goodness sake...how long do you need to tell the story?

It's the multi-print thing. They don't seem to care how long things run anymore because they can just start another print in an hour and another an hour after that. No problem. If prints were scarce like they used to be and each cinema only got one print running 3 or maybe 4 times a day...do you think Disney'd still be happy with the running time? I doubt it.

The multi print is a two edged sword...yes, you can get many more sessions in from a long film, but the patron has to sit through about an hour's more film than is necessary to tell the story.

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 05-17-2007, 02:39 AM:

quote: Michael Brown
We were advertise the timings to the public so they can choose If they want a showtime with an intermission or one without.

That's very interesting. Ideally I would like to do that somewhere as a test, but with identical start times. That way when they buy their ticket for the 7:00 show, there would be 2 auditoriums starting at 7:00, one with and one without an intermission. I do wonder which one would sell more tickets.

Posted by Alex Cross (Member # 3520) on 05-17-2007, 07:40 AM:

I agree with Brad, it would be interesting to see which sales more tickets. Sadly, it's more about how many sales we can do during the intermission. I know from previous experience (the Bollywoods we play always have intermissions), with the the busiest films, we always make a fortune in the sales break. We have interlocked an intermission. It's not easy, and certainly something I don't advocate.

Alex

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 05-17-2007, 08:05 AM:

Do you know if Disney are going to make a special reel where the intermission begins? It's gonna look so crappy if it just cuts out.

Have you interlocked a (presumably) Bollywood that is in one part or two? Feel sorry for you guys who are getting POTC intermission and Cheeni Kum that week.

Brad I think you'd have to wait a couple of weeks into the run for that test, since POTC is going to sell out every show on opening weekend in most busy cinemas. Very good idea, can see the major exhibitors doing that for 2h30+ blockbusters if it was proven the intermissions were preferred by customers.

Posted by Alex Cross (Member # 3520) on 05-17-2007, 08:44 AM:

There should be enough time for Disney to put an intermission title in. I know it's going to be end of reel 5, 95 minutes. I remember the last blockbuster that had a last minute intermission. That was The Two Towers, the intermission title had been originally made for another film, but it simply said intermission, so we could get away with using it. I've got a couple of intermission tags from the UK supplier of FG. I got them for the Bollywood's. They'll sufice, but not ideal.

We interlocked Bollywood as 2 seperate films. It was a lot easier than trying to put in enough spacing, and having the pulse in the right place.

Didn't realise Cheeni Kum was out at the same time. Will be interesting to see how that does in competition with POTC. I've already got all my screens set for Bollywood intermissions as we play them every week. I've also got the intermission timed with the interval clock. Kept forgetting to re-start the second half!

Alex

Posted by Pravin Ratnam (Member # 1417) on 05-17-2007, 09:14 AM:

Good grief. I dozed off through a tiny part of POTC1 and for at least 15 min in POTC2. Hmm, I wonder if I should just skip POTC3 and watch it on HD cable.

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 05-18-2007, 06:17 PM:

I've never seen a Bollywood that didn't have a fade/pause into intermission card. Guessing Disney will have made an intermission fade for the Indian market anyway so can use it for Odeon. If they just get you to cut at reel 5 end and put an intermission card in that's terrible. I've always re-started intermissions (and all shows) without timers since the Strong lamphouses I worked with were unreliable.

At the Trocadero we're now pretty much the premier venue for most Bollywood films in the UK since they end up in the 500 seat 'big' auditorium with the 'big' screen and we usually show them exclusively in the West End. We're not expecting Cheeni Kum to do that well, although it looks far better than most recent Bollywood efforts. The two male leads aren't big enough draws for younger British Asians. Jhoom Barabar Jhoom opens the week after and will do far better.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-18-2007, 09:10 PM:

If they are making an "intermission" version of the movie for some markets, I sure wish there was a way to request it. That'd be a godsend for concession sales and the public would appreciate it too.

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 05-19-2007, 12:43 AM:

quote: John Wilson
Whatever happened to a decent pair of scissors when it comes to movie lengths? How on earth can a film like this not get its (already) way overlong story told within 2 hours?

I agree John, after the Spiderman 3 saga I am indeed nervous we are about to see another love triangle with Pirates 3 a 3 hour love triangle with a bit of action scattered through it. The younger ones are so bored with Spiderman 3 they mess they are making is phenomenal. The young ones can't sit still for that length of time.

A mathmatical theory I have worked out for every year under 12 a child is the radius a large popcorn can be spread is doubled. I estimate a 6 year old can spread a large popcorn over a 8 feet radius. This theory was brought about following the release of spiderman 3. Brad Millers movie review of this was so correct .

Posted by Steve Anderson (Member # 364) on 05-19-2007, 03:27 PM:

A drive-in theater around here( Macon County Drive-in ) is running Pirates 3 with a 15 minute intermission.

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 05-20-2007, 12:13 AM:

Attn US Theatres:

Supposedly Technicolor is shipping these prints to arrive on Tuesday. They stated that they have been approved early shipments because of the 9 reels.

Received a fax today telling us to ensure that we have 3 cans for each print. This was mentioned on the phone too.

Posted by Dustin Mitchell (Member # 372) on 05-20-2007, 01:08 AM:

We recieve our digital drive for Pirates on Friday (though we won't be able to screen it until Wednesday night).

Its certainly much appreciated ast he 300+ gigabyte size makes ingesting/transfering an adventure.

Posted by Patrick de Groot (Member # 858) on 05-20-2007, 09:40 AM:

Is Pirates Digital JPEG2000 encoded?
Is everything from now on encoded as JPEG2000?

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 05-20-2007, 10:21 AM:

Confirmed that we are indeed receiving our prints on Tuesday from TES. Finally, somebody did something right by allowing this to happen. Now we can get all 5 prints built and run them through. [thumbsup]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-21-2007, 10:45 AM:

That's good news...I was hoping for Wednesday but Tuesday's even better.

Posted by Paul Konen (Member # 41) on 05-22-2007, 01:32 PM:

I was especially happy to hear this as I have 6 film prints and the DLP to screen. Looks like the key opens up at midnight tonight (5/22)

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-22-2007, 02:48 PM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Print quantities are supposedly more limited than usual.

We're getting THREE prints (at a nine plex), and it looks like our sister theater down the street (an eight plex) is also getting THREE prints. Very odd. I don't remember that ever happening.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-22-2007, 05:53 PM:

has anyone actually gotten their prints yet? I am off today so I have a call into the theatre to let me know if a special courier shows up with anything.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-22-2007, 06:54 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
We're getting THREE prints (at a nine plex), and it looks like our sister theater down the street (an eight plex) is also getting THREE prints. Very odd. I don't remember that ever happening.

The two Carmike locations in Billings MT have been doing that of late. They opened two Spider-Man 3 and two Shrek 3 prints at each location. Not exactly down-the-street though...they're about 10 minutes apart.

Darryl - we didn't get our print today, I was hoping so but no luck.

Posted by Chris Dugan (Member # 3893) on 05-22-2007, 06:55 PM:

Ours showed up.

All 15 cans of it.

*sigh*

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-22-2007, 10:10 PM:

I must have the condensed version... only 3 cans for me!

[evil]

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 05-22-2007, 10:56 PM:

I know this is a very newbie question, [Confused]

however I am just wondering how you guys get your prints in so early, even for a big movie like this we probobly won't get them untill Thursday at noon at the earliest (most likely getting at least 5 prints as well, thats what we got for Spiderman and Shrek).

I am just wondering if this is just a Canada thing, or just the theatre chain (we use Deluxe film services)

Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 05-22-2007, 11:30 PM:

"I am just wondering how you guys get your prints in so early"

It is in part a Canada thing. In the US, Disney prints are handled by Technicolor. Technicolor is generally pretty strict about delivery windows, but above all they try to be consistent. In this case, apparently they recognized that it was important to get prints delivered early, and managed to pull it off, at least for a bunch of theatres.

The other common case in the US is a print handled by Deluxe Film Services (DFS, formerly ETS). In those cases, delivery times are less consistent. Each locality has one or more local delivery companies that move films between theatres and their local DFS depot, and it's up to those delivery companies to prioritize the deliveries. That means that some theatres may get Wednesday deliveries, or early or late Thursday deliveries. (In addition, some theatres pick their prints up directly at the depot ("will call"), or the depot might fedex a print or something. In Mike's case, they come on Greyhound...)

Of course, in all cases, the studio bookers can give direction to Deluxe and Technicolor, and within the realities dictated by the labs and production schedules, Deluxe and Technicolor will certainly do what they're told. They specialize in taking their marching orders from studios and doing what they're told. So if studios say, "Deliver on Tuesday!" then that's what will happen. Of course, if they're still printing the credits on Monday night, that's probably not going to happen.

One might imagine, though, that the snafus with Spidey 3 may have lead to Disney and Technicolor being more willing to do early deliveries for Pirates. But that is just speculation on my part.

So, that's the answer for the US. Some general guidelines, but "it depends." I can't speak to YYZ.

--jhawk

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-22-2007, 11:31 PM:

It probably has something to do with you being on the Thursday, and not Wednesday, delivery route. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-23-2007, 11:12 AM:

quote: John Hawkinson
In Mike's case, they come on Greyhound...

Assuming I'm the "Mike" you are talking about, we actually get our DFS prints over UPS now. Greyhound pulled out of this area of Montana a few years ago, but their rates had gotten so ridiculous ($90 or more to receive a print, and about $80 to return it) we switched to UPS. There is another bus company (Trailways) we can use in a pinch but their rates are the same.

Back on topic - our Pirates showed up about 30 minutes ago.

Posted by Josh Rosen (Member # 4291) on 05-23-2007, 04:30 PM:

Thanks for the info, makes more sense now [Smile]

quote:
It probably has something to do with you being on the Thursday, and not Wednesday, delivery route. [Wink]

I realize that we have a Thursday deliver route, I was more wondering what dictated the deliver route, and now I see that it can be a number of factors.

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-23-2007, 07:32 PM:

If you love golf ball size grain then this film is for you! Horrible grain in all the low light scenes, pathetic in my opinion. Theaters that try running this on 70 foot wide screens will be laughable.

Mark

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 05-23-2007, 08:15 PM:

Got told buy our print delivery guy the shipping of Pirates has been handled badly in the UK, everyone OK out there? I hope the guys I worked with in projection got theirs early, five prints of POTC and two Bollywoods out this week as well means at least a 2am finish.

Posted by Daryl C. W. O'Shea (Member # 1303) on 05-23-2007, 10:38 PM:

quote: Josh Rosen
I realize that we have a Thursday deliver route, I was more wondering what dictated the deliver route, and now I see that it can be a number of factors.

The most overriding factor is your proximity to the depot. The further away you are the earlier you're likely to get your prints, that is if they're being delivered by Deluxe or Tech.

If you get your prints by bus all bets are off. If you pick them up you can almost always get first run prints on Wednesday from either depot. Second run can be as late as noon-ish Friday.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
If you love golf ball size grain then this film is for you! Horrible grain in all the low light scenes, pathetic in my opinion. Theaters that try running this on 70 foot wide screens will be laughable.

I can't wait to run it on our 110' screens. Yippee frickin' do.

Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 05-24-2007, 03:03 AM:

Just watched one of our prints this evening....Picture looked great didn't notic any heavy grain issues. It's on a 46' wide screen but the print looked nice.

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 05-24-2007, 07:33 AM:

Got both prints, everything looked good. 168 minutes seems better after posting showtimes and seeing 175 minutes as the runtime. 168 was accurate for us, and the prints looked great...

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-25-2007, 08:31 AM:

quote: Darryl Spicer
Picture looked great didn't notic any heavy grain issues.

You better check your lens prescrition or your astigmatism adjustment on your anamorphics! Dark scenes look very grainy, especially those inside the ships.... bright scenes look great.

Mark

Posted by Matt Kerekes (Member # 2777) on 05-25-2007, 08:36 AM:

I agree with Mark that some of the dark scenes were very grainy, although I only noticed towards the beginning but that's because I was looking for it specifically. Once I got engrossed in the film I didn't notice anything.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-25-2007, 10:01 AM:

After our 8:00 show last night, patrons came out half asleep and griping that the movie was too long.

Most every single sequel that's longer than 120 minutes (with the possible exception of the Godfather and Lord of the Rings movies) has been called "too long" by both patrons and critics. Why the hell can't film companies/film makers realize this and SAVE MONEY by making movies that are reasonable length?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-25-2007, 02:42 PM:

quote: Matt Kerekes
some of the dark scenes were very grainy

Hmmmmm.... maybe I should take Mark's suggestion, & get my glasses checked again. I didn't notice it at the screening, and my print looks pretty good here.

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
You better check your lens prescrition or your astigmatism adjustment on your anamorphics!

Nahh.... I'll pull my Schneiders and put the old Snaplites back in. That'll fix it!

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 05-25-2007, 02:48 PM:

Nah, drag out the Varamorphs!

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 05-25-2007, 03:59 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
Why the hell can't film companies/film makers realize this and SAVE MONEY by making movies that are reasonable length?

I think when the same creative team is making the Sequels, there is a desire to make an epic masterpiece. At the same time since the first one made so much money the studio is going to give the creative team complete freedom to do whatever they want (hence the $225 million budget for 2 and 3 combined turned into $300 million just for 3).

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 05-25-2007, 05:08 PM:

I still have two theaters that I service that have variable anamorphs. One theater is the sharpest I've ever seen and the other is fair for sharpness. They do eat up alot of light though.

Keep in mind that the Camera 65 process used pprismatic camera lenses and was en excellent process.

Mark