Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Going Green (as much as possible)

This is topic Going Green (as much as possible) in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.

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Posted by Kara J. McVay (Member # 1285) on 10-14-2007, 11:12 AM:

I run a 3 screen historic theatre that has recently made the switch to recycling nearly everything that the customer uses. The only things that have to go in trash are: lids, straws, napkins, popcorn, candy wrappers. My recycling company can take all of my paper/cardboard products. We are a small theatre that would use a 10X10 dumpster each week into the landfills, 90-95% of which is paper. Now we have a 10X10 recycling dumpster that goes to a recycling center. We have only 4-5 bags of real trash per week now. The customers like it and it makes them and us feel good to do something to help recycle. We are still perfecting our separation process, over the next few weeks I am sure we will have it all down to a science.

Only after I put this program in place did I realize that I am saving $140 per month because I went from a trash dumpster to a recycling dumpster.

I will keep you all posted on our progress and post procedures once we get all the bugs worked out.

Posted by Floyd Justin Newton (Member # 1316) on 10-14-2007, 11:33 AM:

G O O D !!

Posted by Chad M Calpito (Member # 3736) on 10-14-2007, 12:29 PM:

I think that is awesome for what you are doing. Keep up the great work. [Big Grin]

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 10-14-2007, 03:25 PM:

[thumbsup]

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 10-14-2007, 03:38 PM:

You should check out the Penn and Teller Bullshit show on recycling.

This clip doesn't actually show what the entire point of the show is, but it's pretty funny.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 10-14-2007, 04:23 PM:

At least Kara is having tangable benefits from the recycling program. In the past, it would cost businesses more when they would try to recycle as the paper recyclers would find a glut in the market and not be able to pay as much, the glass recyclers ditto...aluminum recyclers tend to make the most money.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-14-2007, 05:16 PM:

Eugene is green-conscious to an extreme. I bet if one of the two big chains here - Cinemark and Regal - started making a big deal out of being "green" they could siphon off some business from their rival.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 10-14-2007, 11:53 PM:

At least in NYC, it is all bullshit. I have a few friends in the Sanitation Department and they said it's a huge scam. NOTHING is recycled. The city fines people who don't do the separation, they triple the polution by sending out three fumes gushing sanitation trucks instead of one and those truck bring the separated "recyclables" to the same fill that where they always took mixed garbage. They dump the stuff in separate sections, it's true, but that's as far as it goes. The separated types have never been moved from those piles to any recycling plant anywhere. But the only money the city makes from recycling is the fines it collects from residence to don't get their garbage in the right containers. At $50 a pop, they are raking it in, even after paying all those extra sanitation workers double and triple time and all the extra fuel needed for the two additional garbage trucks.

Sure green is a noble idea, but only if it really IS green and not some bureauacratic scam to fleece the public of its hard-earned money.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 10-19-2007, 01:00 PM:

Makes one wonder on this if it's BS or not...for our part of the state began a recycling program with the trash companies with blue tubs issued to each customer to put the recycle in ... and the cities charges the customer an extra 8 bucks on their city water/sewer/trash bill - which is issued every other month whether the customer uses the service or not.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 10-19-2007, 01:04 PM:

In the episode of Penn&Teller Bullshit that Brad referred to, the conclusion was that the only thing worth recycling (from normal household trash) are metal cans. Paper recycling requires a lot of toxic chemicals and doesn't "save trees". Since it reduces the number of trees needed for paper all it does is allow tree farms (where they get the trees for pulp from) to sell and become housing developments thus decreasing the number of trees. Plastic and glass recycling wastes energy because it takes more energy to recycle than just to produce new.

Metal was worth recycling because it takes less energy to recycle than it does to extract from ore.

But.......if you get financial benifit by doing it than go ahead and take advantage.

Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 10-19-2007, 06:46 PM:

quote: Lyle Romer
paper recycling requires a lot of toxic chemicals and doesn't "save trees". Since it reduces the number of trees needed for paper

Burning the paper as a fuel source is as good as recycling the paper (assuming the paper is sourced from managed forests). Landfilling the paper (and any other waste) is not a good method

One odd thing I have noticed with glass recycling is that the local curbside collection sorts the glass by colour when adding it to the truck, when the collections from pubs do not colour sort (the bottles smash when tipped into the truck so there is no chance they can be sorted later).

Posted by Allison Parsons (Member # 2728) on 10-19-2007, 11:19 PM:

Do you have separate trash bins for the customers that say "bags only" "cups only" etc.? Or do you just throw everything in the recycling bin since most of it is plastic/paper anyway. Either way big ol' [thumbsup]

to you! Wish more theatres did that!

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-20-2007, 07:33 PM:

Sorry folks, I'm not going to separate, pay a fee to dispose of a busted computer, drag a recycle bin to the curb on Tuesday. Why? Just too much trouble, doubtful as to whether anything is recycled anyway. Much recycling costs more energy and resources than producing new. In short, I think the whole thing is BullShit. Additionally, in much of the world, one is paid for the stuff that goes to be recycled. If I'm providing the materials for somebody or company to process and resell, why shouldn't I be paid for the raw materials?

[ 10-21-2007, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: Bill Enos ]

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 10-21-2007, 09:38 AM:

German speaking countries: plastic, metal, white glass, brown glass, green glass, & refuse. Since there is heavy use of wine & beer, I suppose they actually do keep them seperate & recycle.

Still, since glass is just heated sand, it might actually be cheaper to start anew. Louis

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 10-21-2007, 08:06 PM:

I am suprised nobody has considered solar power.

Granted, most of the power consumption of a movie theater is going to be at night - but theaters typically use a lot of electricity and have large amounts of roof space.

If you set up a small to moderate sized solar system like this one, you could offset a bit of the electric bill selling power back to the electric company during daylight hours.
This could really pay for itself quick in California where electricity is expensive.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-21-2007, 09:12 PM:

We've had a couple people ask why we don't use solar power at the theatre. So how large a solar array would it take to power our two 3k proj. lamps, 100 ton a/c (225 amps at med power, 25 hp blower, 90 amps house lights. Forget everything else. Biggest issue is that we're mostly open at night. After hurricane Isabel the power was out for 7 days, one of our customers offered the use of his 3.5kw generator.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 10-21-2007, 09:35 PM:

The idea isn't to have enough panels to power everything. You'd be reducing your overall power bill, though it might take years to recoup the cost of the panels etc. unless you live in a state or city offering big tax incentives for installing the panels.

So Bill, you find it more satisfying to have your waste go to the landfill rather than making an effort to recycle? (I'm just asking [Big Grin]

)

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 10-22-2007, 02:32 AM:

If you're trying to have electricity and "go green" try checking with your power company to see if they offer any plans that only are generated with renewable sources.

My personal electricity plan is like that.

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 10-22-2007, 06:33 AM:

quote: Chris Slycord
If you're trying to have electricity and "go green" try checking with your power company to see if they offer any plans that only are generated with renewable sources.

While green power is a noble concept, it costs more in most places. If I am running a business, especially one that has a large electric bill like a movie theater, I would want to lower that cost as much as possible.
Selling electricity back to the grid during the day seems logical. Many of the solar power systems have dropped in price considerable over the last 5 years - enough to where payback can be seen within a year or two. In CA, there are even huge tax breaks for installing a system like this.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-22-2007, 03:45 PM:

David, I could give a shit less where it goes as long as it doesn't cost me anything in cash or inconvenience. "Green" is fine with me with those two conditions as well a paying me for that which is turned into useful products. The economics is what is missing from the whole "Green" plan. It just isn't economically practical.

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 10-24-2007, 05:39 AM:

I encourage recycling at the outdoor cinema as patrons are able to bring their own wine/beer etc and consume prior to the movie.. or as some do... keep going during the movie going by the stuff left under the deckies after each session.
I have 3 bins each at Entry foyer and Exit gate labelled "Glass", "Aluminium Cans" & "Rubbish". Has taken a while to get the culture going but they are pretty well trained now and generally do the right thing. Has made a huge difference to what I have to lift up onto the ute to cart away to transfer station....a heap of wine bottles in a 70Litre garbage bin bag is bloody heavy and almost always would tear the thing [Mad]

then I got more mess to clean up.
Have to sort bottles into colors here and for that I keep a couple of bins handy and just trawl thru the bin sorting as I go and when the bins are full off they go to tranfer station. Ali cans are pretty easy and light to handle.. just gotta keep and eye on what patrons "think" are ali cans.
Just this little bit of recycling may have increased my time I spend cleaning BUT it sure helps me avoid a busted back so I am happy doing it that way... got a few rabid greenie types for patrons who think it is marvellous but have no idea of why I started doing it this way [Big Grin]

As to solar power for a cinema .... yikes.... no bloody way. Even my conservative setup of a single screen outdoors so no A/Con for patrons has a consumption of 2100 KWH for just 5 months operation. In a previous house I had a solar backup power system as the supply was VERY unreliable. The whole place was single phase and I had a 2.5KW continuos/6 KW peak inverter taking 50V DC to 250V AC at 50HZ. A bank of 2 X 200ah batteries charged by 8 solar panels on the roof which had a peak DC output of around 8 amps in good bright/cool conditions. The power supplied by those and stored by the system was enough to run a 220 Litre freezer continuosly (in its normal on/off cycle that is)if the mains were off for more than 6 hours. That freezer completely consumed the total KWH input available from the sun... I think it consumed 1.75KWH per day.
I would need zillions of panels to just run my little show plus I would need a 3 phase inverter and those do not come cheap [Roll Eyes]

I have had a few nights where we have lost power mid show or just prior and usually due to lightning and I looked at a standby plant once and decided it had to be at minimum a 15KVA 3 phase but the sums did not stack up to get one for the amount of use it would ever get.
My biggest concern when power goes out is keeping enough light about to move people out safely and keep some form of air cooling going on that almost white hot Xenon lamp. Almost always the time the power dies is when it is stinking hot after a 40C plus day and the storms build up so the bio box is rather warm as there is normally no need for A/Con in there.

A solar plant for a 3 screen complex would be massive and I guess it would have to be Interactive IE feed into the mains as I doubt that most would not want to look after batteries let alone buy them in the first place.
I know one 4 screen complex that has a 250KW standby diesel genset that comes on in 8 seconds and runs the entire complex A/con and all... is a madhouse when the mains blip though as getting those 4 screens back up again can be fun [Wink]

Lindsay

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 10-24-2007, 06:21 AM:

quote: Lindsay Morris
A solar plant for a 3 screen complex would be massive and I guess it would have to be Interactive IE feed into the mains as I doubt that most would not want to look after batteries let alone buy them in the first place.

I think many people are missing the point about solar. The idea is not to run the complex off of it. The idea is to make a $5000 a month electric bill more like $3000 a month since you can sell electricity back to the power company during the day when there is sunlight.
No batteries involved. Just a "grid tied" system.

What makes it economical is theaters typically have
1) Large roofs (where you can place panels)
2) High electricity bills

Here is a website that expains the concept much better.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 10-24-2007, 07:12 PM:

Nuclear power would end all these problems but people are too afraid about the possibility of an accident or what to do with the waste. That's what Missouri is for. [Big Grin]

Posted by Lindsay Morris (Member # 1430) on 10-25-2007, 03:58 AM:

Mike,

I had a look at that website and then ran the figures to suit my little outdoor cinema where I average 420KWH per month.
If I wanted to generate a solar component about equal to that consumption for the summer and then leave going thru the winter to further increase my "credits" from the power utility I would have to size a plant at about 3KW output.
A school where my daughter works has just installed a 1KW unit at a cost of Aus$22,000 and a call to a friend of mine who does solar installations re a 3KW unit??? he came up with
Aus$46,000 in rough figures. These are interactive or as you call it there "grid tied" (no batteries).
My power bill for the entire 5 month season is under Aus$400 and thus would take me around 10 years to recover my costs. The power untilities here do not buy power back at the same rate they charge it out to you either... they only give you about 60% of what they charge.
By far the biggest cost component is the solar panels themselves and until they come down in price dramatically solar is going to continue to struggle.
One way to increase your solar panel output is to install a tracker that follows the sun across the sky... very effective and can add a further 30% to your total solar output for the day.
I have 3 solar panels on my little motor home, the fridge is a small compressor unit on 12Volt and we can free camp for around 5 days with the solar panels supplying our entire lighting, entertainment and refrigeration needs and NOT have to run the motor. I love that setup as LPG for fridges is a pain and quite expensive away from the bigger centres and there is no way that a LPG fridge can compete in terms of "cold" efficiency with the new compressor type units.
My "green" contribution is simply going to be recycle as much of the cinema waste as possible, recycle my printed programs that are not used by patrons to do all my office printing on unless it is going to leave the office area.
Compact flouros are used wherever I can utilise one and some of those have been going just on 12 years and beat the pants off the filament type lamps for life and consumption.
I have even recycled both sets of projectors to date and am in the process of now recycling a glass slide projector with a xenon lamp to replace the existing carbon arc lamp illuminated one.
Am not a subscriber to the current thinking of consume at all costs that this current society seems obsessed with.
I think if we all did our little bit it would make a huge difference overall. But we gotta change the thinking of the Govts of this world... a classic example of that woolly type thinking was the University Of NSW solar cell design which increased it's efficiency quite a lot. The inventor could not get funding grants from our dopey Govt to further develop and market them from Aust so it was sold overseas to Germany. All the jobs and the $$$'s have gone there and the German company is now exporting the panels back to Aust [Roll Eyes]

Lindsay

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 10-25-2007, 10:06 AM:

Lindsay,

You ignored what he said for part of it then suddenly started paying attention to it again.

The point was NOT to run your entire system off of solar it was to use solar to lower your bill. So you could right now buy some solar panels and your bill will go down. Then in the future when they're cheaper, either buy more or buy better replacements. But you by no means have to buy one large enough to run your entire setup.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 10-25-2007, 12:31 PM:

I just did a little poking around and found a 3600 watt solar system installed complete with panels, inverter for providing a/c to the grid from the d/c from the panels, all the necessary switching along with installation of same including 1 year guarantee on equipment and installation. $32,500. At the approx. residential rate, if this thing put out max 24/7 it would take 10.3 years for it to earn its cost. Splitting the day 50/50 between zero out and max we're up to 20 years. What actual max sun hours would be in your area would vary

Posted by Mike Williams (Member # 1140) on 10-25-2007, 12:37 PM:

Granted, it may not make sense for every area.
In places like CA, where the electicity cost is 2 or 3x what we pay in the east, coupled with government incentives, there may be a faster payback.