This is topic Cost Of Newspaper Advertising in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-10-2007, 09:30 AM:
 
What do you independents spend on your local newspaper ad? Is it worth what it costs? Our one column by one inch ad on the entertainment page of the Richmond Times Dispatch every day costs $3300. every month. This paper is the only daily in the area and has the second highest ad rates in the country, higher than newspapers with circulations several times larger. We're seriously considering discontinuing the ad. The what's playing page of our web site gets 200 to 300+ hits every day and the automated movie line never stops ringing. Considering the age range movie goers and reaching an ever decreasing readership the ad seems to be costing more than it's worth. We'll probably drop the ad and see what happens. Any thoughts?
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-10-2007, 09:39 AM:
 
Good question. A few years ago both Regal and Cinemark cut their regular newspaper showtime listings here down to just a very small box with their logo and a url and phone numbers. That didn't last very long -- They went back to full listings. Eugene also has a popular free weekly newspaper "Eugene Weekly" which has an entertainment section and movie reviews written by a local reviewer, not one of the big-time syndicated reviewers like Roger Ebert. Both Regal and Cinemark run large prominent ads in "Eugene Weekly".

One column by one inch for $3300/mo seems very high to me but hey, what do I know.

Do you run onscreen advertising? Maybe you can barter with the newspaper for a lower rate on the ad by giving them some ad time on your screen(s).
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-10-2007, 10:52 AM:
 
We have a very popular free weekly here too. "Style Weekly" has a large readership and would be the perfect alternative except that their deadline is I believe Sunday for the magazine that hits the street after 10 Tuesday night, our films are booked Monday or Tuesday so it wouldn't do us much good. Regal, Consolidated, and Carmike here only list the main number for each theatre complex and display ads are only on Friday for new releases. Space in this paper is so expensive that previous releases never get display ads.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-10-2007, 11:05 AM:
 
How about doing a survey? As people come into the theatre, just have your ticket seller ask: How do you find out about movies? Newspaper, website, marquee or some combination? It would slow down your line, but if you took this survey on a couple of week nights you would get a good representative sample of real moviegoers without inconveniencing people too much.

That ad is costing you $110 a day. Is it bringing in that many customers?

How about going to a weekly ad, or weekends-only?
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-10-2007, 01:15 PM:
 
Now that I think about it, when Regal and Cinemark cut back their ads, it was like Monday through Thursday. They still ran their regular ads Friday thru Sunday.

This is just a guess, I have no data to back it up, but I wonder if the type of crowd movie theaters tend to get during weekdays (Monday thru Thursday) skews older and is more likely to use the newspaper to get their showtimes.
 

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-10-2007, 01:56 PM:
 
We "were" advertsing in the big Nashville newspaper via the studio co-op ads, and they actually did work very well for us. However, in the spring of 2007, it seems all of the studios went to some generic "See Local Listings for a Theatre Near You" tag line at the bottom of the ads as opposed to listing the individual theatres showing that particular movie. We liked the co-op ads. It costs us 1 1/2% - 2% of the box office gross. If the movie did well for us, we paid more, if it tanked, we paid hardly anything, but the consistancy of being in the display ads was well worth more than anything we ever paid for.

Being a drive-in, we're a little different than your typical indoor theatre. Alot of times people will come to our place to catch the "Drive-in experience" and don't really care what we're playing... not always but sometimes.

The local daily newspaper here in town doesn't really reach alot of folks via subscribers, but they have a "super Tuesday" edition which gets mailed to every household and business in the county. We always advertise on Tuesday for the coming Friday's schedule, and usually on Friday and Saturdays as well.

In 2008, we're probably going only with the Tuesday edition of the local paper, cutting out a few of the small weekly's, running a standard genric ad in the Nashville paper, and buying a highway billboard for the months of April thru August.

The best advertising dollars we spend are on our website and our weekly movie email list.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-10-2007, 04:09 PM:
 
Our local paper, The SAGINAW NEWS, offers a weekly tabloid section called "Hot Ticket". (Not the stolen kind!)
There are listings for every type of entertainment as well as dinner offerings.

Very often there are reviews of our films and the deadline is Tuesday for the Thursday issue. The downtown large theatre does classics and Art film while the neighborhood is a single screen second run house.

Both theatres have good web sites and very active Email subscription lists. The downtown venue also has a very classy newsletter sent to an extensive mailing list. Booking films in a series makes it practical to advertise in these types of printed material. Week to week booking would not be served by this type of publication as the distribution takes way too long.

As a non-profit venue, you should be able to get better rates for your advertising. A small ad with good identity and the title of the current feature should not cost anything like $100.00 per day. You could do better with RADIO at that rate. Find the station for your audience demographic and see what you can do. Just mentioning radio to the newspaper salesperson should get that pencil sharpened.

KEN
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-10-2007, 05:05 PM:
 
What do radio ads cost?

Wouldn't the production cost of a weekly radio ad be a killer, though, even if the airtime is cheap? A recording studio and an announcer could easily be $100-200/hour. Or would this be for live copy to be read by the announcer instead of a pre-recorded spot?
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 12-10-2007, 06:37 PM:
 
Why not simply cut the amount of advertising down especially on weekdays?
You might want to consider Thurs/Fri/Sat/Sun. Does your paper charge a higher rate on Sundays (many do) then maybe drop Sundays too. Or prehaps just on Fridays alone.

I don't think it should be all or nothing at all for newspaper advertising. It would seem more advisable to keep some presence in the paper even if only one day per week.
 

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Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-10-2007, 08:46 PM:
 
We run a full ad (forget what size) on Friday, Saturday, Sundays and Holidays. We used to run ads Mon-Thurs and didn't notice any significant decrease in attendance; if any. We also have times posted on moviefone.com and of course the our in-house information recording.
 

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Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 12-10-2007, 11:33 PM:
 
We only have a local paper twice per week so we run a 2 column x 3 inch add in each edition.
This costs about $1200 per month and I have pondered over the value of this . However when we make a mistake in the ad with a time it shows up at the booking office , which proves people are reading them.
 

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Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-11-2007, 01:38 AM:
 
even one column, one inch ads can get on the spendy side if one does a 7 day run with it..
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-11-2007, 06:39 AM:
 
So, let me make an analogy here.

There is a woods with deer, rabbits and turkeys living in it. You are interested in turkey for dinner so you decide to go hunting. With a shotgun (newspaper) you stand near the woods and blast, perhaps hitting a turkey but also pelleting the trees and deer and maybe even a rabbit. With a rifle (radio) you can single out the target and avoid the trees and other objects. With a scope on the rifle and a filter that only sees turkeys,(demographic of audience for that station) you are ready to go after your dinner (customers).
 

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-11-2007, 08:35 AM:
 
Good analogy...but if you go hunting with a shotgun(advertising in the newspaper) only once a week, and while you intended to shoot for the turkey (target a specific audience), also happened to pellet the trees, deer and maybe the rabbit (also reached other demographics), the result might be that the trees, deer and rabbit now realize you're in the woods and will start to be on the lookout for you.

Just an idea....
 

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Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 12-11-2007, 11:52 AM:
 
"Is the ad bringing you that much money?" (#100+ / day)

Yeah, I'd say that was pretty certain. We're talking about a major metropolitan area, one of the major markets in the nation measured either by population or commerce. And people look in the newspaper for showtimes.

As the use of the internet as a directory stands today, I'd guess that it takes a regular and dedicated user to depend solely on the web for such information. People don't just want showtimes, they want COMPARATIVE showtimes (2, 4:30 and 7 here, 3, 5:15 and 7:30 there, matched with how far they have to go and what their other plans are...) as well as COMPARATIVE listings (the times here for one feature don't work for me, so what else is playing here?). That's a newspaper entertainment ad section in a nutshell ... unless there's an equally-useful multi-theater listing online (and guess where those kinds of online listings live? Right ... newspaper websites.)

Where I live (Washington DC area) the Washington Post is the "500 pound gorilla". There are alternative publications, but I don't even know whether showtimes are advertised in them. As a heavy internat user, I get my showtimes from the Post because both types of comparative searches are available on the Post website, but I don't know if the guy down the street knows about that way of looking, or if those listings would still be there for theaters that didn't pay for print ads. I'm quite sure that online listings of such efficacy are, at the moment, exclusively found at newspapers with fairly sophisticated web presences (what's going to be true tomorrow may be different). For that reason, I think you'll still find it necessary to pay for the ad.

Moreover, I still sometimes find myself looking around a street for a newspaper box, because I have no idea of trying to access that sort of information from my cel phone or whatever. And don't even mention trying to find all the information you want from the annoying 5-minute-long telephone recording ("times for Debbie Does Dallas in theater 15 are...") - I never could stand listening to those at any time.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-11-2007, 01:51 PM:
 
This is their "Best Deal". This paper doesn't give discounts for anything other than quantity of advertising. To get by this cheaply the ad must run every day, skip a day and the rate goes up to the point that 3 days cost the same as 7. Sales price is more than most too, news stand or coin box price is .50 Mon thru Fri., .75 for Saturday and $1.75 for Sunday, home delivery is the same price as per copy. This is a Media General company. I guess they are trying to maintain their income level while circulation decreases.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-11-2007, 02:38 PM:
 

quote: Scott Norwood

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Wouldn't the production cost of a weekly radio ad be a killer, though, even if the airtime is cheap?

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True. But even if you do your own ad at the radio station, the price you pay for each listener that actually goes to your place is pretty high... especially if you're advertising on a station that covers populations far from your drawing area. Like papers and TV, you pay to reach those people, whether they're likely to visit you or not.
 

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Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 12-11-2007, 03:37 PM:
 
At the beginning of this year, we dropped from advertising 7 days a week to just Fri and Sat in the local daily.
It is saving us over $500 a month, with no noticable drop in attendance because of it.
It did take a little while for people to get used to not seeing our ad Mon-Thu, but people adjust.

At $3300 a month, I think you could put that money to better use with more direct marketing - e-mails, web site, flyers, etc.

I really like the idea of polling your customers to see exactly where they are getting the show time info.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-11-2007, 07:05 PM:
 
Info I neglected to include, we are a single screen sub run.
Dropping to 3 days a week would actually cost more since we would lose the discound for advertising every day.
 

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Posted by Alex Rolfe (Member # 1648) on 12-11-2007, 08:36 PM:
 
Bill, does the Byrd have an email list that gets a weekly email? If you promote it and ensure it doesn't generate spam for people, it may end up being much more effective than a newspaper ad. You could even look into a text message list too; I bet most of your audience is young enough for that.

If you go the email route, you should think about the timing. It might make sense to send it Thursday morning (ie, not as soon as the booking's done) for the film starting Friday so that it's early enough for people to make plans but not so early they forget.

If you already have an email list, you should make it more prominent on your webpage, because I couldn't find it.
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-11-2007, 08:50 PM:
 
"Entertainment Alert! (organ fanfare) This week's film presentation, 'Title of Film' showing at 3, 5 and 7 today in the historic and beautiful Byrd Theatre, downtown Richmond."

This is the kind of advertisement you would want to have during the rush hour and lunch hour over the station to which your customers are listening.

Talk to the local radio salesperson and see what it might cost for a 10 second ad in those time slots.

KEN
 

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Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 12-11-2007, 10:26 PM:
 
Can you shrink the size? Is ALL that info really necessary?
 

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Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 12-12-2007, 01:28 AM:
 
Run a coupon as part of your ad for a week. Gauge the readership by how many coupons come back.
 

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Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 12-12-2007, 06:37 AM:
 
I've often wondered how much business newspapers still manage to bring in.

The company I currently work for has their times listed on numerous websites (including their own) and sends out a weekly subscription email, in addition to adds in the city listings (i.e. they don't run a large block add). On those occassions when the times haven't been printed in the paper (either due to a printing error or the information not being sent in time), attendance hasn't fluxuated to a notable degree and the only feedback we've recieved has come from a handful of senior citizens. Conversely, when there is an error in the online listings, we note a dramatic response from patrons.

On an interesting side note, I used to work for a relatively small regional chain that had deep pockets and utilized all of the advertising mediums people speculate about; in addition to running a block add similar in size to the "big three" and other traditional listings, this company had radio spots in heavy rotation (including a syndicated radio show regularly being broadcast from the flagship theatre's lobby), annual mass mailings, and even a late night tv commercial. Yet, this company's theatres and brand name were far from well known (the most heavily promoted of this chain's theatres is still underperforming).
 

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Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 12-12-2007, 06:40 AM:
 
If there are any restaurants near your theatre, ask them if you can place little table tents on each table to advertise the theatre and your film for the week. A team of volunteers can make and distribute these at very low cost and they are effective.

KEN
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-12-2007, 12:02 PM:
 

quote: Wayne Keyser

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As the use of the internet as a directory stands today, I'd guess that it takes a regular and dedicated user to depend solely on the web for such information. People don't just want showtimes, they want COMPARATIVE showtimes (2, 4:30 and 7 here, 3, 5:15 and 7:30 there, matched with how far they have to go and what their other plans are...) as well as COMPARATIVE listings (the times here for one feature don't work for me, so what else is playing here?). That's a newspaper entertainment ad section in a nutshell ... unless there's an equally-useful multi-theater listing online (and guess where those kinds of online listings live? Right ... newspaper websites.)

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Is this what you're referring to?

Here is a screenshot of the showtimes table for nearby theaters playing "I Am Legend" on Friday:



Showtimes for "I Am Legend" playing at Theaters Within 15 Miles of ZIP Code 53151 (New Berlin, WI)

There are useful web sites out there that provide some great information for more than one chain of theaters that are not run by newspapers. Some, like mine, even provide theaters with enhanced services that help them communicate more effectively with their customers.

All for much, much less than $100 a day. Much less...
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-12-2007, 02:41 PM:
 
Newspaper advertising in general is highly over-priced. You spend more money per thousand customer exposures than using lots of other kinds of advertising.

Newspapers are also quickly becoming obsolete. I canceled my subscription to the Lawton Constitution paper years ago. I was already getting my news elsewhere (broadcast TV, satellite TV, the Internet). Many issues of the paper went unread. It finally became a chore just to remove the rubber band, unroll the thing and scan through it before putting in the stack of paper to recycle. So I got rid of it.

Some businesses hurt themselves by spending the majority of their ad budget on newspaper advertising, with a smattering of TV and radio, but then hardly anything on their "store front personality." Nothing gives a business better bang for the buck in advertising value than high quality on premise signs. A reasonably busy city street can carry 40,000 vehicles per day. That's 14.6 million vehicles per year. Many vehicles are carrying more than 1 person. That adds up to a lot more advertising exposure than any local TV station or newspaper can reliably deliver. Despite those staggering numbers it is amazing how cheap so many businesses are with how they treat their store fronts. Signs aren't the only issue. The building, parking lot and landscaping has to be in good shape as well. This creates a far better image of professionalism with the customer. If the store looks like trash the customer will think the product is trash.

A growing number of movie theaters are installing electronic variable message center signs and using other tools to reinforce brand identity with customers and get them to visit the theater's web site for show time listings.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-12-2007, 03:52 PM:
 
Our local paper is about to phase out the weekly tv listing insert as most people now use the schedule guides built-in to digital satellite and cable systems. I also understand TV Guide is likely about to cease publication in the near future.
The older the demographic, the more likely the reliance of newspaper ads by the citizens. All 4 theatres run newspaper ads 7 days a week, and on days the Drive-In is closed they advertise the "get your showtimes text-messaged directly to your phone" ad in place of showtimes.
If your theatre has a web site that allows internet purchasing of tickets, the showtimes on that site will have to correspond with your theatre's server and thus these particular sites will almost always be more accurate on a given day than the local newspaper.
I agree with Bobby in that newspapers will become obsolete.
 

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Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 12-12-2007, 07:06 PM:
 
Unfortunately there is a middle-age group that goes to movies that will almost exclusively read newspapers. Many people still don't have internet, or don't have easy access to it while traveling, so you must keep your daily ad. Radio ads are a waste of money unless you are doing a promo for one specific movie.

In short, you are (at least for a few more years) most certainly stuck advertising in the paper. If you don't believe it, stop the ads and start counting the complaints.

Something you could try is a cross-promotional trade with the newspaper, if you're a good salesman. Get their name up in your theatre in exchange for advertising. Add Richmond Times to a special you are already running, or make up a new one, put a few coupons in the paper for the special and see what happens. Just an idea.
 

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Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 12-12-2007, 08:43 PM:
 
I run a Drive-in ,when I open in May I advertise in several newspapers in surrounding towns with populations of 10k-28k. I quit advertising in all of those towns august 1st each season even though I do not close until the middle to the end of September. It took 3 years of this before I had one person ask why I did not have a ad in the newspaper. When someone comes to the drive-in for the first time 90% of the time they found me on the Internet and 10% is from the newspaper. But Last summer after a 7 year absense (due to high ad rates) I again started advertising in the MPLS Star-Tribune and this did give me a noticeable increase in business so I view this newspaper as cost effective.
 

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Posted by Wayne Keyser (Member # 2420) on 12-12-2007, 10:03 PM:
 
The earlier post, by Scott Jentsch, is exactly what I was talking about.

However, remember that we here are a computer-using, theater-savvy bunch. You can't leave a substantial part of your demographic "in the dark" - and I don't mean 'the majority,' I mean that you can't suddenly forget about 20% (or whatever) - whoever those people are, the ditchdigger who doesn't even have a computer, the secretary who gets home and has had more than enough computers for one day, grandma whose VCR still blinks "12:00", whomever. Oh, yeah ... let's not forget about the person who's already out, away from their computer, and suddenly decides to take in a movie so they buy a paper.

Best idea I've seen here: that coupon idea.

It would be an easier decision if you were a multiplex (economies of scale) - but you're just one screen.

Did I get it right that you're talking about the Byrd? One screen ... but a national treasure, and I'm not using that term lightly. Many happy memories from my days at U of Richmond.

Then again, there's the Times Dispatch ... many less happy memories from my days in their pasteup department.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-12-2007, 10:50 PM:
 
One thing I can say for sure, whenever my wife and I go on a trip we almost always try to see a movie or three, and we ALWAYS buy a local newspaper to see what's showing. So I think newspaper ads do have their place.

Carmike in Billings has gone to 3-days a week advertising in the Billings paper, and the cheap theatre there runs a list of shows only once a week -- when they advertise other days, they run a phone number only.

Fortunately for us, we only have a weekly newspaper so print ad costs are minimal. The original poster here spends more on newspaper ads in two months than my advertising budget in all media for the whole year!
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-13-2007, 08:00 PM:
 
I almost forgot...
Buena Vista and some of the independent film companies are the only film companies that insert coop advertising in the Lubbock newspaper. All of the other major companies have ceased coop advertising in this market some time ago.
Coop advertising seems to be only used in the larger MSA's.
 

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Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 12-14-2007, 01:58 PM:
 
I noticed last week that Carmike had a normal sized ad in the newspaper, taking the same space as the usual ad with the showtimes, but it just said to call the theatre for showtimes. I rode by this theatre here in Huntsville, the Carmike 10, a few nights ago around 10:30 and the theatre was closed. The electronic showtimes display only showed the 7ish showings, and no 9:00 showings. Does this mean this theatre will be biting the dust soon? I hate to see that, because they recently went all-digital projection and it was the first theatre in town with all side masking and adjustable masking on all screens for both 1.85:1 and 2.39:1, plus it was the first with all-digital sound and all-stadium seating. it will have been open 10 years on March 5, 2008.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-14-2007, 02:43 PM:
 
The theatre may be "economizing" by deleting the last round on Sundays through Thursdays. Some chains do this when public schools are in session.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-14-2007, 03:46 PM:
 
The older Carmike in Billings is doing exactly that. No late shows Sun-Thur.

The newer Wynnsong is still running a full schedule of matinees and evening shows, but it's near a mall and on a much busier street than the older place.
 

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Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-15-2007, 07:03 AM:
 

quote: Bobby Henderson

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I canceled my subscription to the Lawton Constitution paper years ago.

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quote: Bobby Henderson

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. Increasing sophistication of the Internet has dramatically one-upped anything newspapers can do.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Oh yeah? I can't read the internet while I'm taking a crap...

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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...and I can't swat a fly with the internet either.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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The computer does a lot of things very well, but it can't replace the relaxing experience of reading the daily paper.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Newspapers will always excel at one thing vs. TV: Details.

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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Plus, once it's in print it's forever, so newspapers must have a higher standard of responsibility to make sure the story is correct before it goes on paper.

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We've seen various scandals come to light in newspaper reporting. There's the NY Times reporter who made up his stories. Some newspapers have been busted for copying/pasting the content from opinion blogs and other not so credible sources and reporting them as fact. In general, standards in journalism have declined by a great deal. It's especially unfortunate that ethical standards have been thrown out the window.

The Lawton Constitution in my town is not doing a very good job because it is not doing enough to report unique, local news. It isn't working to be an output for the collective community voice. Instead it's just rubber stamping day old crap I already know about. When that's the main part of the product, it's turning into a waste of money and a waste of time to read.

I do like certain comic strips. However, I tend to buy the anthology books instead of reading the strips peace-meal in the daily paper.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-15-2007, 05:46 PM:
 
Good grief, Bobby -- to quote Charlie Brown: Don't you know sarcasm when you hear it?

I still think the paper is better for reading while crapping. I can buy several years' subscription for the cost of all that equipment you recommend, plus I don't have to "surf" looking for content, or squint at a 2" cellphone screen, or worry if what I'm reading falls into the toilet.
 

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Posted by Evans A Criswell (Member # 381) on 12-15-2007, 06:40 PM:
 
There one bad thing about the demise of newspapers -- news archiving over the years. Go to any city's library and the newspapers from way back, all the way to the present, will be on microfilm and if you want to see what was going on in February 1949, just get that reel and put it in the machine and it's there. You can go through the front pages, the whole paper, the ads, or any part and learn a great deal of what was going on at that time, what was being advertised, at what prices, and so on. My movie theatre research would have been practically impossible without it. Try to find a newspaper article more than a few months old on the internet. Most newspaper sites severely limit archive searching, and in some cases, it's to two weeks back. If we're not careful, we're going to lose years of news data if there is not a publically-available archive of all the news items. Imagine if newspapers went away and all news sites became like TV station news sites where yesterday's news stories are already gone irretrievably.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-15-2007, 06:53 PM:
 
I will hang onto my newspaper subscription until the bitter end. I don't like getting all my news etc. from the Internet because there is little accountability, nor credibility sometimes. I can read the paper over breakfast, or take it to work and read it at lunch, or read it at Starbucks over coffee. Also there's little to no local news without the newspaper.

I will also keep my analog cable TV until Comcast pulls the plug on the service.

Now excuse me while I go check my mailbox. The one out by the sidewalk that is.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-15-2007, 08:29 PM:
 

quote: Mike Blakesley

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Don't you know sarcasm when you hear it?

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quote: Evans A Criswell

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There one bad thing about the demise of newspapers -- news archiving over the years.

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With data storage capacity improving by big leaps lately, it should be possible to scan old newspaper archives and move them online. Most newspapers and magazines have been composed entirely within the digital realm for the past 10-20 years. Recent and current issues could be distributed electronically using formats like PDF.
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-15-2007, 08:48 PM:
 
If newspapers go away, and news dissemination is purely electronic, we lose the paper trail, so to speak. A newspaper puts out thousands of printed copies, with each copy like an official record of the news. It can't be tampered with, retracted, edited, etc. at the whim of the publisher, or by disagreeing readers or people with opposing agendas. Oh yeah, the publisher can print later corrections, but they can't just go back and edit or destroy what they said, at least not without an explanation. "We never said that!" doesn't apply to newspapers. It does apply to online news sources. If I'm reposting an electronic article from an online source, I can edit it to say whatever I want and who's going to fact-check it to see if it matches the original article? What happens when the original electronic version is withdrawn, as they all seem to be sooner or later? The reposted versions can be very easily tampered with.

Just like we can edit our posts here. If we couldn't edit our posts, we might be more careful about what we say.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-15-2007, 09:22 PM:
 
If I couldn't edit my posts I'd be much more militant about proof-reading for typos.

One of my father's professors back at Syracuse would give anyone an automatic "F" on any paper with a spelling error. It wouldn't be called a spelling error either; rather, it would be deemed an "error in fact." This professor also didn't stop with the "F" grade either. He would give students grades like "N-" "Q" and even go into double letters if there was enough errors in the paper. I think this professor's last name was Demarest. I remember hearing my father's complaints about what a Sadist that guy was.
 

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Posted by Aaron Mehocic (Member # 15) on 12-15-2007, 10:26 PM:
 
If I did that in my classes, I'd never teach again. Then again, I only require papers during the summer semester. Although I agree most college students are terrible at grammar and sentence construction - especially in their writing - that is just plain stupid.

Ah, tenure.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 12-17-2007, 02:53 PM:
 
Getting back to the effectiveness of newspaper advertising, I think you need to determine who your potential audience is, and market to that audience using the most cost effective methods possible.

Newspaper advertising is expensive, but if it sells enough tickets and concessions to cover its costs, it may be worth it. But, if it's not as effective as other means, then you have to judge whether you have enough advertising money to throw at it in comparison to the others.

My guess is that if you educate your customers about your web site and your phone number, you may not need the newspaper advertising as much as you thought.

Running a coupon on each medium simultaneously would be a good way to test that out. You could also have some sort of tally sheet at the point of sale where the cashier quickly asks how they get their showtimes. It shouldn't take long to check a box and thank them for their answer.

In Milwaukee, Marcus Theatres (which has many Milwaukee Metro locations) does not advertise showtimes in the weekday Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, only the names, addresses, and numbers for each theater in a 3.5" x 3.5" ad. The Sunday ad is 3.5" x 13.5" with complete names, addresses, and showtimes.

Another way to look at it is, if you had an extra $3,000 a month ($36,000 a year!) to build your business, what could you do with it?
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 12-17-2007, 07:51 PM:
 
Our audience if mostly younger. Eventually the ad will go. The last several weeks it runs there will be no movie name or show times. It will will say see our web site or call our movie line for what's playing and show times in hopes of conditioning them to do so.
 

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Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-17-2007, 09:08 PM:
 
Maybe get a second phone number and put that number (only) in the newspaper ad (and nowhere else). Count the number of calls to the "new" number and that's the number of people who saw the ad and cared enough to find out what you are showing. Of course, that doesn't tell you how many of those people actually become paying customers, but it would be an easy way to get some idea of how many potential customers see the ad.
 

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Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 12-17-2007, 11:37 PM:
 
Coupons are an easy way to tell the difference. Print up one coupon for one specific snack bar item in the newspaper. Run a special coupon for something different via the website (and require a print out of that coupon for redemption). Do something unique yet again for radio, like some special buzzword or something. Don't carbon copy the same special between all the three mediums. I would mention TV, but hardly any movie theaters do any advertising on local TV stations anymore.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 12-18-2007, 12:50 PM:
 
Buena Vista was the last distributor to run local TV spots in Lubbock. (Is Buena Vista a bit behind the curve somehow?)
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-05-2008, 01:20 PM:
 
The ad ended two months ago and there has been NO change in attendance and so far only one person who has complained about the lack of the ad. The $3000. was apparently wasted money.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-05-2008, 01:52 PM:
 
Sometimes I think I'll cancel our ad in the paper. On the rare occasion we have a mistake in it (like a showtime that's 15 minutes off or something) we literally never get anybody commenting on it.

I guess I keep it because:
1. This is a small town and the paper needs all the ads it can get
2. The editor is a good moviegoer (with family) as are a couple of the staff
3. It's only about $85 a month (weekly paper)
4. There are alot of "older" people around here who do look at the paper and see the ad.

I may think about decreasing the size though...I've been running a movie logo w/picture; I could drop the picture and save maybe $30 a month.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-05-2008, 03:27 PM:
 
Hits on the web site have quadrupled since the ad ended. Friday and Saturday hover around 2k+ hits. Weekdays around 800 to 1000. The phone movie line never stops.
 

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Posted by Ramin Hashemi (Member # 2694) on 03-07-2008, 04:03 PM:
 
I'm sorry if this is a repeat, as I did not read the entire post. But, if people pick up the paper to see the show times, copies are sold because of the theatre. Shouldn't the paper pay us, or at least make it fee?

wishful thinking
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 03-07-2008, 11:54 PM:
 
I wonder why newspapers don't list the times gratis like they do television listings.
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-08-2008, 12:36 AM:
 
Some newspapers do. Often entitled "Weekend Movie Clock" and the like.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-08-2008, 09:21 AM:
 
...but do they do that for free if the theatre is not an advertiser?
 

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Posted by John Hawkinson (Member # 1135) on 03-08-2008, 10:27 AM:
 
I have no idea, but my experience is in major metropolitan dailies where generally theatres are not advertisers at all, they just appear in stack ads, which may or may not count depending on how you look at it.

--jhawk
 

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Posted by Mark Hajducki (Member # 1732) on 03-08-2008, 11:31 AM:
 
A number of newspapers in Edinburgh have listings for all the cinemas within their circulation area. These are simple text and times (sometimes with reviews in a separate section) without logos or non-essential details (phone and website).

Given the completeness and uniformity of the listings it is unlikely they are paid inclusion. If they were paid for then the larger chains would probably take larger adverts, rather than the basic style.
 

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Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 03-08-2008, 04:46 PM:
 
Bill, sounds like a good time to increase the advertising on your web site! Maybe you can start MAKING money from the web site.
 

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Posted by Eric Hooper (Member # 1730) on 03-08-2008, 09:27 PM:
 
I'm also curious, and this may be a whole new topic in itself, but have calls to your recorded message gone down over the years, due to showtimes being on the Internet?
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-09-2008, 10:00 AM:
 
I don't know about anyone else but when I look in the newspaper and see adds for theatres that are very small and/or just list a phone number, or say call for showtimes I automatically think;
A. This theatre is having financial problems and can't afford a real add
B. This theatre is a dump and the ownership doesnt want to spend the money to advertise it
C. This theatre does not have its act together and could not get its bookins done in time for the newspaper, or
D. The owners dont have much experience in the business and think cutting the newspaper add is a good way to save money

Those opinions may be outdated as the internet has grown to be peoples primary source of news and information, but I cannot help but think what I think when I see an abbreviated add. The "big boys" still put very large adds that list all the showtimes in the papers here in the Boston area so I wonder if they know something we don't or if like me they are stuck in the past?
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-11-2008, 10:31 AM:
 
Can't say whether A,B,C or D applies to Regal, Carmike and Consolidated, but they all limit the newspaper ads in this area to just a list of their theatres and a phone number for each on Saturday thru Thursday. Friday gets a small display ad for whatever is starting new.
 

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Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 03-11-2008, 01:12 PM:
 

quote: Sean McKinnon

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I automatically think;
A. This theatre is having financial problems and can't afford a real add
B. This theatre is a dump and the ownership doesnt want to spend the money to advertise it
C. This theatre does not have its act together and could not get its bookins done in time for the newspaper, or
D. The owners dont have much experience in the business and think cutting the newspaper add is a good way to save money

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I know in some of our local newspapers, their cut-off time for ad submissions is Friday for the following Tuesday. Since we don't book our shows until Monday, with confirmation from the studios sometimes not coming in until late Monday afternoon, we can't do anything in the newspapers except placing a generic ad saying to check the website or the theatre info line.

In the closest metropolitan major market for us (Nashville), a 1 col. x 1.5: display add for a one day submission is upwards of $700 a day in the main newspaper. While Carmike & Regal do have big 1 col. x 6" ads in the newspaper, for smaller independants like me, $700 a day is untouchable. It's not because I'm cheap, my place is not a dump, and because I don't spend $700 a day - my financial problems are nill.

In the 5 years we've been open, we have found by far that our own website, combined with our "Weekly movie email list" that goes to our patrons is the best advertising we can get.
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-11-2008, 01:46 PM:
 
$700 is a major expense for a newspaper add. I am sure that your place is not a dump, and I am sure that you are fiscally well established, what I said was my perception based on the theatres in my area. It could be because I have been to all of them so I already know which ones are dumps and it just so happens to co-incide with the newspaper adds here. AFAIK All the regals run full adds here.
 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 03-11-2008, 08:29 PM:
 
My wife, an English teacher in high school, did a survey about 10 years ago.

Only about 20% of high school age people has access to a daily newspaper. Fewer read it. I would not carry cinema ads in a paper since the target audience is not covered. Louis
 

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Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 03-11-2008, 09:18 PM:
 
I go to movies.

I subscribe to the newspaper.

I am their target audience.


 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-11-2008, 10:42 PM:
 

quote: Bill Enos

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Hits on the web site have quadrupled since the ad ended. Friday and Saturday hover around 2k+ hits. Weekdays around 800 to 1000. The phone movie line never stops.

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Bill,

Is that 2,000 hits or 2,000 page views? Typically, hits include all elements on a web page, including graphics.
 

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Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 03-11-2008, 11:58 PM:
 
Speaking of the recording lines...
One chain has started disconnecting the recording lines to individual theatres and are referring, in the print ad in the paper, to call Fandango for listings and showtimes. This is a cost cutting measure in regards to the phone bills.
 

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Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 03-12-2008, 07:18 PM:
 
Fandango, some of the most idiotic on screen ads known to man kind.

Ten years ago, I know of a small town theatre that opened up brand new. Big front page spread about the event in all four local (small town) papers.

News story ran on the local radio station for two days.

Half page ads ran in all four local papers for 1st two weeks.

Month later the owner was still running into numerous people daily asking him, so when are you going to open? When he would comment about all the local coverage, he always got the reply, I don't take the paper or, I only read the obits in the paper.
 

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Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-13-2008, 11:23 AM:
 
David, not that you're an old fart, but you still seem to be somewhat older than than our typical moviegoer. The number of hits is the total of all.

[ 03-13-2008, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: Bill Enos ]
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-13-2008, 04:12 PM:
 
I figured it must have been hits, because 2,000 page views per day for a single theater would be high indeed.

Out of curiosity, do you have an idea of how many page views your main page gets? If your stats package also gives you that information, a valuable item is the number of unique visitors, as that will tell you how many individuals you are serving with your site.

For example, on a typical Friday, one of my client's sites gets about 2,000 hits, with about 1,000 page views from about 350 visitors. I wonder if their ad in the paper was seen 1,000 times on Friday?
 

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Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 03-17-2008, 10:24 AM:
 
According to a report from Reuters, Regal is questioning the need for newspaper advertising;

http://www.reuters.com/article/rbssConsumerGoodsAndRetailNews/idUSN1219223620080312

LOS ANGELES, March 12 (Reuters) - U.S. movie theater company Regal Entertainment Group (RGC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) is seeing diminishing returns from the millions of dollars it spends on movie listings in newspapers as people turn to the Internet for the information, Chief Executive Officer Michael Campbell said.

Theaters pay for listing their schedules in newspaper entertainment sections, but the largest U.S. theater chain has begun questioning the value.

"Personally, I think that theater listings in newspapers should be free to us and also free as a service to the public, just like TV listings are. I don't see a lot of difference there," Campbell said late on Tuesday at the ShoWest convention for theater operators.

Regal has in some cases over the last five years dropped out of certain newspapers, he said.

"The reality is that it had no impact on our attendance and truthfully it angers the (newspaper) subscribers not to have it in there," he said. "We think listings are a sales tool to sell more newspapers, why should we pay for it?" he said.

The Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) last week said that a forthcoming study by Yahoo Inc (YHOO.O: Quote, Profile, Research) and the MPAA found that 73 percent of U.S. moviegoers use the Web to research films before going to the theater.

Moviegoers who use the Web are more likely to see a movie on the opening weekend, go to the theater more often, and see some movies more than once, the MPAA said.

Some newspapers do list movie times for free, Campbell said, but most do charge and increase their rates annually. He declined to say how much Regal spends on movie listings other than it was "several millions" of dollars per year.

Regal, along with other movie exhibitors and studios are hoping an industry-wide upgrade to digital projection will enable theaters to add on 3-D capabilities and boost both ticket prices and attendance.

Several studios and the Digital Cinema Implementation Partners -- wholly owned by Regal, Cinemark Holdings Inc (CNK.N: Quote, Profile, Research) and AMC Entertainment Inc (AC.N: Quote, Profile, Research) are close to a $1.1 billion financing deal to deploy digital technology in cinemas.

Campbell said he hopes to ultimately have 1,200 to 1,500 3-D screens in his theater chain. Regal operates about 6,388 screens nationwide.

He reiterated that for the current first quarter, Regal would be happy if it matches the year-ago period, which had revenues of $625 million, and was boosted by the blockbuster film, "300." Analysts, on average, expect Regal to report 18 cents a share for the quarter, according to Reuters Estimates.

"January and February were very good, but we've lost some of that ground in March as we suspected because the comparisons were tougher," he said. "For first quarter, if we're flattish with last year, we'd be happy," he said.
 

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-17-2008, 10:49 AM:
 
I read two newspapers a day, The Boston Herald, and The Salem News. If I am going to see a movie I either call the theatre or look it up online as I know the newspaper can often be wrong. I hate Fandango and would never use it. I dont like any automated system where you have to talk to a computer.
 

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Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-17-2008, 11:20 AM:
 
One of my theaters called me at 10:30am yesterday to have me add extra shows of "Horton Hears a Who" to the web site for Sun-Thu.

How is a newspaper going to be able to have that kind of flexibility? By the time the paper would have gotten the information and printed it, it would be Tuesday before their readers would see the updated information.

I readily admit that there is a particular demographic that depends on the newspaper as their primary source of information, but that demographic has to be shrinking steadily. The subscription numbers for newspapers continue to decline, and the traditional age barriers to getting online are becoming less and less of a factor.

Phone recordings and web sites are able to be changed on short notice, and I'll bet that the cost per sale is much cheaper on both than on newspaper advertising. In an industry where every penny seems to count, I fail to understand how the high cost of newspaper advertising makes sense. Those who can't/won't go online would certainly be able to pick up the phone, don't you think?

At the very least, I would think that aggressively re-negotiating the ad rates on a regular basis would be in order...
 

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