Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Hiring Decision Etiquette (SP?)

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Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-19-2008, 06:16 AM:

A close friend of mine went on two interviews with a fairly largeNational company that runs movie theatres and other Amusements . Both interviews seemed to go very very well, he said and the interviewers made a few positive comments on his experience and skills. He also returned all thier paperwork and had an extensive background check performed on him before the second interview. He sais that he was told during the second interview that the interviewers boss was on vacation until the next Monday and that they would call him that Monday or Tuesday to schedule the final interview. The interviewer also said according to my friend that he wanted to move fast to get the positions filled (they are hiring multiple people for similar positions).

That was two weeks ago and my friend has not heard a thing from this company. He tried to call the person who did the second interview and was asked to just leave a message. He sent an e-mail to the person who did the first interview (the 2nd interviewers boss) and has gotten no reply. He has come to the realization that he is not going to be hired here are my questions;

1. Would you tell someone that you want to continue the hiring process with them, when you really have no intention of that?

2. Do you think it's right tell someone that you are going to schedule a third interview with them and that you will call them on a specific date then never call?

3. If you decide not to hire someone do you think you should inform them of such, or just let them figure it out?

4. You members of the forum responsible for hiring people what do you do? Do you tell applicants you have interviewed that you are not interested in person? Over the phone? In a letter? Never tell them?

My friend has been very upset about this. He has other offers on the table but really wants to work for this compnay and is afrais that if he takes another offer that then they will call to schedule the third interview! He doesn't want to keep calling so he doesnt seem like a pain in case they are still considering hiring him. It seems like he is in a really bad position because if he takes another job without bieng 100% sure he could be making a mistake. If he keeps calling trying to find out then they could consider him a pain and decide not to hire him because of that. He's 99% sure that they are not interested and just blowing him off but hes not sure.

[ 03-08-2008, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Sean McKinnon ]

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 02-19-2008, 10:31 AM:

They should call him back no matter what; what they're doing is wrong.

And he should take whichever other opportunity is best; waiting around for a possible job while giving up guaranteed jobs is a huge mistake (one I've done).

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 02-19-2008, 11:13 AM:

They are blowing him off. If they value him as a commodity, they would have it done already. Time to move on. He could try, as a last ditch effort, to give them a "thanks for your time, but if I don't hear from you by such-and-such I'll be accepting a position with so-and-so". Its pushy, but he's not getting this job anyway, so what the heck.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-19-2008, 12:02 PM:

I agree with Chad and Chris: call one last time, be polite, but then move on. We often hear about inconsiderate potential employees, but there are many inconsiderate employers, too.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 02-19-2008, 12:09 PM:

Maybe he is a "backup" candidate and they are waiting to see if someone else accepts the job before ruling him out?

It's a pretty crappy way to treat a prospective employee, but I could see something like this happening if there is candidate whom they prefer, but who may not accept the offer.

I always thought that it was rude for employers to list an open position, accept resumes for that position, and then not notify everyone who had submitted a resume (whether interviewed or not) when the position had been filled. I believe that the least that they owe the submitters is a simple "we're not interested" letter. Still, it seems to be common to just ignore resumes from unqualified candiditates. In any case, this guy was interviewed multiple times and is definitely owed a response.

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 02-19-2008, 07:41 PM:

He really wouldn't want to work for such inconsiderate clods anyway. Getting a job is a little bit like getting married; if they treat you this way BEFORE, imagine what AFTER will be like. Louis

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 02-19-2008, 09:12 PM:

I agree completely with Scott and Louis. I've interviewed for positions with private and public organizations who never bother to get back to me with the outcome, or even "Sorry but you're not the answer we're looking for". It's inexcusable. Did I smell bad? Did I have a booger hanging on my nose? Tell me something, anything.

On the other side, when I recently advertised for an entry-level tech to help me out, I received 70+ applications. I made sure every one of them got an acknowledgement of their application, and later a reject letter or email if they didn't make the initial cut. For the few I interviewed, the rejects also got thank you emails or letters. The company I work for is very good about that but I made sure anyway. It's just common courtesy.

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-20-2008, 07:49 AM:

Don't forget, the internet has changed practically everything in the world of employment hiring, especially to the employer’s advantage. When 20 years ago a company might get 10 applicants for a position, now they get 100. (Think; “Grapes of Wrath.”) It takes time for a personnel department to go through all of the applicants, especially since that personnel department is usually only one guy.

So, I wouldn’t automatically think a company that didn’t get back to me (as described above) was a ‘bad’ company. Inconsiderate, yes, but not bad.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-20-2008, 03:09 PM:

Thank you for your responses guys. You pretty much echoed what I thought, and I have sent your responses to my buddy in hopes that they will cheer him up. When I was a manager we would get lots of application for floorstaff positions. EVERY application was either called to have an interview scheduled or sent a "TBNT- Thank you But, No Thank you" letter. I can understand though when you recieve many many applicants not having the time to personally respond to every applicant but again, a form letter works nicely. I find it unbelievable that a company would have you come in to interview multiple times (When they know the applicant lives 40-45 miles away and not even respond to an email about it. Maybe they think my friend does not meet thier standards but after this situation they have shown that THEY do not meet HIS, as this is not the way he operates. Again thanks guys! Hopefully your responses will cheer my buddy up, He needs it.

Posted by Leo Enticknap (Member # 534) on 02-21-2008, 01:02 PM:

I frequently received unsolicited CVs, both when working in theatres and archives. My rule of thumb was as follows:

1. If the person looks like a viable candidate from the CV, write and say that you'll keep it on file, and let them know if we're advertising a suitable vacancy. I would often be able to fill posts simply by raiding the files, though in the line of public sector work I'm in now there is a legal requirement to go through a full-scale formal advertisement and interview cycle.

2. If the person doesn't look viable - i.e. their CV doesn't show enough relevant skills or experience to be viable for the job they're interested in at that point, write back with a short explanation of what we'd potentially be looking for, thanking them for their interest but saying that we don't really think they're suitably qualified as yet.

3. Absolutely inform all unsuccessful shortlisted candidates after a round of interviews, immediately after the successful one has accepted the post. If time allows, I'd also try to give them some individual feedback: usually this is along the lines of 'You are perfectly capable of doing the job: it's just that the successful candidate ticked more boxes on the spec'.

4. If you're anticipating too many applications to inform people you don't select for interview, make this very clear in the ad, with a form of words along the lines of 'If you do not hear from us within X weeks of submitting your application, then please assume that you were not selected for an interview. Due to the high volume of applications we anticipate receiving, we regret that we cannot contact all unsuccessful applicants individually'. For one position I had to fill, we had 220 applications. Even with a standard, pre-printed letter it would have simply taken too long to notify all the unsuccessfuls. IMHO it's OK not to, as long as you state clearly in the ad that you're not going to.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 02-21-2008, 02:35 PM:

In reality, most companies today don't have much hiring manners.

I've had a couple of my kids apply for jobs at what is perceived top notch companies, and they all got the line "you'll hear from us in a week to 10 days." In most case's it was a much longer time frame before they heard than they had been told.

In one case, it was 4 months before my daughter in law heard back after being told 10 days. And they wanted to hire her. She had the pleasure of telling them "your too late."

Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 02-21-2008, 05:17 PM:

quote: Brad Allen
In reality, most companies today don't have much hiring manners.

I'd have to agree. In recent years, I've noticed less and less companies that even bother to send out a form letter. Conversely, I've also noted a decline in the behavior of applicants (lack of proffessional attire for interviews, no shows for interviews, poorly prepared, unrealistic expectations, etc.). In general, the whole hiring process isn't what it once was, for all parties involved.

The thing I find odd about the employers is that so many are turning to a heavy use of personality tests, background checks, drug tests, and skill tests. Yet, they are neglecting the accepted norms of social interaction to such an extent.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-22-2008, 09:37 AM:

quote: Christopher Crouch
The thing I find odd about the employers is that so many are turning to a heavy use of personality tests, background checks, drug tests, and skill tests. Yet, they are neglecting the accepted norms of social interaction to such an extent.

The funny thing is that this company did an extensive background check, They checked everything, I wouldnt be suprised if they didnt try to call the physician who delivered him! After they got the results back they set up the second interview so that is why it's so confusing to my friend. He has poor credit but was upfront and honest with them and they said that wasnt such a big deal. Personally, I dont think companies should be allowed to check your credit and use it as a basis to hire you or not. I really do not see what it has to do with anything. If a person get's laid off from a good job and cannot find any other work for a period of time then naturally they are going to fall behind and damage thier credit. Whats to say that a person with perfect credit doesnt have that perfect credit because he stole the money to pay off his bills? For that reason I dont see how you can tell anything, You dont know where the money came from to pay off the bills... Drug Dealing, Theft, Blackmail, Extortion who really knows? As far fetched as it may be that someone with good credit got it through dishonesty it is still possible and its possible that someone with bad credit got it through circumstances beyond thier control so how does running an applicants credit really tell you anything about them?

Posted by John Walsh (Member # 168) on 02-22-2008, 11:10 AM:

Doing credit checks is the norm, not the rare. In this day of easy access to all kinds of information it's an option many, if not most, companies are turning to since it's very difficult to let someone go after hiring. If the new employee turns out bad, it reflects on the HR guy. I would not be surprised if a bad credit check *was* the reason they did not get get back to him. They will say 'its no big deal' while interviewing because why start a possible arguement and sour him to the company if he turns out to be the best cadidate after reviewing all who applied? And they are not going to start a fight by telling him it was his credit that disqualifed him.

Of course, I do not know your friend and hope the best for him. But with the internet, your past is easily and cheaply researched. If a company has two otherwise qualified applicants, why pick one with a credit problem?

I went on a interview a few years ago, and they told me if I was called for a second interview to bring my last two paycheck stubs (orginals, not copies.) I could have said no, but they could have said OK, we're not hiring you.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 02-23-2008, 10:43 AM:

according to federl law (The "Fair Credit Reporting Act") you must be told if information in your file has been used against you "Such as denying an application for credit, insurance, or employment" You also must be given the name, adress, and telephone number of the CRA (Credit Reporting Agency) that provided the report. You have the right to request a copy of your report and to dispute anything contained in it. If innacurate information is found it must be deleted.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-08-2008, 11:36 AM:

*Bump* Just curious if anyone out thier uses a form letter to inform applicants that they have not been selected for employment. At Loews Cineplex we used to use a "Thank you But No Thank you" or "TBNT" letter that basically said "Thank you for your application at this time we have no open positions that meet your specific skills we will keep your application on file for so many months". I was under the impression that this was something we were required to do by law to notify applicants that we would keep thier app on file for a certain period of time anyone know if theres any laws on that? I think you need to keep apps for a certain period of time but over the years I have seen many people take an app, wait for the person to leave and then toss it in the trash can! What do you do with apps?

Posted by Ed Alvarado (Member # 2760) on 03-11-2008, 03:05 AM:

dude I had an interview for a job at a theater and man I'm looking good and I was feeling good(and keep in mind I was ready to chat on all 5yrs of theater knowledge) so I walk in 6mins early. and the manager ask's me for my name and blah blah and then he pulls the weird questions like:

1.what are some things you can change about your self?
2.what is your hobby?
3.what do you do on your free time?
4.what are 3 things you are proud of?
5.if I had a banner to put on my theater hallway to show people that you are the new guy here what are 5 things good that it would say about you?

dude I was soo out of it and I couldnt understand why he was talking about my personal life and why isnt this guy asking me about booth or job history? and being so I couldnt answer with a good thing to say to any of those and every time I said stuff about theater events the MANAGER would say WERE NOT HERE TO TALK ABOUT MOVIES OR THEATER this has to be all about you. WHO ARE YOU? I need to know this kinds of things. I looked at him and I just say give this job to someobody who needs it!(and I walked out of the interview just like that)

I JUST HATE PEOPLE WHO DO STUPID THINGS LIKE THAT

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 03-11-2008, 03:56 AM:

What theater company was that?

Posted by Drew Daniluck (Member # 4678) on 03-11-2008, 12:14 PM:

I take care of the hiring for my theatre, its a Regal theatre. Our standard policy is "We are always "hiring" and taking applications" so even though I have more than enough employees and people are fighting for hours, I have to take applications. We get on average 5 applications a day, and about 3 more a day via the internet. I simply do not have to time to take care of regular theatre operations, booth operations and sending "No Thank You" letters. I have the managers that work with me tell applicants that we are taking applications and if we decide to set up an interview it would be within 10 days, if you don't hear anything after that, then we are sorry. I think this is fair enough and I am not leading anyone on.

Drew

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-11-2008, 01:14 PM:

So Regal is taking applications when there is no hope that anyone who applies will be offered a job? How is that ethical? Doesn't that policy just waste everyone's time?

I still believe that every rejected applicant (for any job) deserves a timely form-letter response, at minimum. And I don't mean some badly xeroxed thing with the applicant's name written in by hand, either.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-11-2008, 01:41 PM:

quote: Drew Daniluck
I simply do not have to time to take care of regular theatre operations, booth operations and sending "No Thank You" letters.

I managed at one of the busiest 20 screens in my former circuit (which was a large circuit) and even though it was a simple form letter we sent a form letter to EVERY applicant, ESPECIALLY the ones we interviewed. Business and customer service is simple to me HOW WOULD YOU WANT TO BE TREATED? Treat people in that manner. If someone doesn't have the time to print out a few letters every week, sign them, and adress the envelopes then you have major time management issues. As scott said it is an issue of ethics. You don't have a "Hiring Manager" AFAIK all the Regals in my area do, this sounds like a task that should be relegated to them.

quote:
dude I had an interview for a job at a theater and man I'm looking good and I was feeling good(and keep in mind I was ready to chat on all 5yrs of theater knowledge) so I walk in 6mins early. and the manager ask's me for my name and blah blah and then he pulls the weird questions like:

I just had an interview very similar to that, lol The worst part was I flew halfway across the country for it!

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-12-2008, 12:32 PM:

When anyone puts in an application at the theater I run we make a point of saying "We are not hiring at this time but we will keep your application on file for 6 months." We do this even when we are hiring so that no one is sitting and waiting for a phone call.

I do not interview people that I know I will not hire. If they are two shabby or dirty when they put in an application I will not call them for an interview. If they seem rude I will not call them for an interview.

Once I interview someone one time I determine if I want to look at them more seriously or not.

Now on the first interview if I determine I don't want to to look at them more seriously I send them a letter telling them that at this time we are not going to be looking at them for employment but will keep their application on file for 6 months.

If I decide to interview them more seriously I set up a time for a second interview with an assistant manager present. The assistant manager ask the personal questions as if they are off the top of their head, which of course they aren't. If people are to busy with sports and need to play softball 3 or 4 times a week or basketball on city leagues there is little need to continue. If their favorite thing off work is getting high I don't need them as well. It is always surprising to me how many will tell a 20 year old they love to get stoned every night in front of me.

On those that get the second interview I either hire them in a few days or send the letter in a few days. Either way once I have interviewed them they get a letter telling them one way or another.

The personal information is only important to the theater if it is going to affect the job. I'm not big on this what are your 10 best points what are your 10 worst points stuff how does one know that about themselves especially if they are under 25.

Recently I went through 3 phone interviews with a company about a job position that would require a significant move. They never said anything about a face to face and after the last phone interview (with 2 others listening in) they stated it was between me and 2 other people. They would call me in a week or so. That several months back, in fact it was last year. I assume the fact that they did not call back is their way of saying sorry charlie.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-12-2008, 04:03 PM:

quote: Ron Funderburg
If people are to busy with sports and need to play softball 3 or 4 times a week or basketball on city leagues there is little need to continue.

Here in "smallville" we need to work with the kids and their sports schedules, because everybody who is worth anything is an active participant in something at school. The ones who don't want to be involved with anything are usually the ones who are antisocial, stoners or just lazy. I've had a handful of exceptions over the years, but in general we tend to be leery of teenagers who are not in any outside activites at school.

One of my best workers so far in this decade did an outstanding job for us and made the honor roll, was a cheerleader and class president, played volleyball and softball, was president of the FCCLA chapter, taught a Sunday school class and had another job besides her theatre job. I swear she must have never slept.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 03-12-2008, 06:41 PM:

Mike I should clear up my statement I didn't mean highschool kids I expect them to be involved but I also except them to be able to work a few nights a week.

I'm talking about the young adults that play on city leagues here. We tried to hire a few when I first stated here but but they tended to only want one night a week. Oh and they wanted the employee showing and to go to the movie free but no more than one night a week. Of course, we didn't find that out until they had worked here for a week or so.

People looking for part time employment as they attend college that are involved in school activities aren't bad. But those that have other jobs and are involved in all the inter city league and have a set of dancing nights I pass by.

If their outside interest tend toward party hardy I pass them buy. People who tend to be movie buffs I tend to hire.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 03-12-2008, 07:21 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
So Regal is taking applications when there is no hope that anyone who applies will be offered a job? How is that ethical? Doesn't that policy just waste everyone's time?

In many places, you are required to accept applications. It is part of the Equal Employment Opportunity Employer stuff. You are not required to offer an interview, but you do need to have and accept the aps. It basically keeps an employer from handing an ap to the white guy and not the woman or minority. Of course, the minority never gets the interview, but hey, it looks good on paper. Although there was that lawsuit against Hooters a few years back brought by the guy who couldn't get hired as a server.

It also may be, and I'm not sure on this one, that you are required to keep applications on file for 1 year. That may be a state by state thing too, I can't remember.

Posted by Christopher Crouch (Member # 3784) on 03-13-2008, 05:28 AM:

quote: Ed Alvarado
and then he pulls the weird questions like

A couple of years ago I applied at a well known regional chain and recieved a copy of their life/business philosophy booklet (a "we live to work, don't work to live" sort of thing), via email; which I was supposed to read and submit an essay on, within 24 hours. Mind you, this was before I had actually spoken with anyone. Not so much as a phone interview and they wanted me to write a thesis, expressing my thoughts on their corporate outlook on life. Bizarre, to say the least.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-13-2008, 09:48 AM:

The reason that I am so bothered by this is that at least twice I have lost out on good jobs waiting for an answer from my first choice. If my first choice job tells me that they will call me by such and such a date and choice #2 calls before that I am going to tell #2 I need some time to decide the longer I wait for #1 to get back to me the more likely choice #2 has offered the job to someone else. By the time you realize that choice #1 is blowing you off and you call choice #2 back they have usually hired someone.

Posted by Drew Daniluck (Member # 4678) on 03-13-2008, 10:56 AM:

Sean, I understand completely what you are saying. Working in a Regal location makes things interesting. They like to watch where they are spending money all the time and several days of the week we have 2 managers on duty, one is the projectionist, the other is running the floor and usually working a register. That is why it is difficult for me to get back with every person that applies. I don't promise anyone anything and the people I do end up interviewing I do let them know of our decision, good or bad within 2 days.
The whole send a letter to each applicant idea was new to me before reading it on here. I've applied at a lot places before and never heard back, I just assumed they weren't interested. Places I've interviewed always got back with me though. But the frustration is understood and I think I will start to send out letters to all the applicants, at the least it improves the theatre image and the people that we don't hire won't hold a grudge against us and never return as a customer...
Drew

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 03-14-2008, 09:43 AM:

I think thats awesome that you are willing to take a look at what your theatre does and try out something new so that you will have a better image in the community, there are a lot of managers out there who don't care enough about thier theatres to try new things they just see it as extra work. Im typing from memory but I believe our form letter said something like this

quote:

Dear Applicant,

Thank you for your recent application to Kickass Cinemas 50. After revewing your application we have determined that we do not have any open positions that meet your skills, and experience. We will keep your application on file for a period of six months. If we have a position open that we think matches your skills, and experience we will contact you. Again, Thank you for your interest in our theatre.

Sincerly,
Mr. Manager
Ass-Man Kickass Cinemas 50

Willingness to try out new things and the desire to make your theatre look as good to your community as possible are big plusses for a manager in my opinion. I think I was kind of hard on your above Drew but you proved me wrong.

Posted by Drew Daniluck (Member # 4678) on 03-14-2008, 12:48 PM:

No offense taken Sean, I understand your frustration. And thanks for the letter script, I will be sure to include "kick ass cinemas" in the letter. [Smile]

Drew