Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: How late is 'too late'?

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Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 04-05-2008, 01:44 AM:

Most of the time when going to see a movie, I see a lot of customers enter the auditorium while the advert reel is playing, and some entering during the trailers. I even see people coming in during the opening scenes, up to 10 minutes into the movie!

What's your opinion on lateness? How late do you leave it before you shut the doors and don't allow people to buy tickets for that showing?
Also, if someone showed up 'late' with a valid ticket for that showing, what would you do - let them in, or offer to change the ticket for a later showing?

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-05-2008, 02:46 AM:

Honestly, I've never heard of anyone telling someone that they can't buy a ticket because they're late. Sure, the person entering could be a distraction to people in the auditorium already seeing the movie, but the fact that people get up to use the bathroom will make that point moot. Plus, I've had plenty of times in box office when someone would show up late and I'd say "You've missed a bit of the movie itself by now" only to have them say they have friends in the movie.

And if someone showed up really late with a ticket they had already purchased earlier I'd tell them they could exchange it but if they still wanted to go in I don't see myself telling them they can't.

Now the final show of the night is different; most places I know close down 15-20 mins after they had the very last auditorium start.

Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 04-05-2008, 09:56 AM:

The Heights Theatre has this notice on their website:

quote:
PLEASE NOTE
Please note that unlike chain or multiplex theaters we DO NOT run any advertisements or multiple previews before our features. The feature usually starts no later than 5 - 10 minutes after the posted start times.

ALSO, for the comfort of our patrons enjoying the show we DO NOT sell tickets or seats for any performance 20 minutes after the posted start time. So please plan accordingly. Thank you!

As a movie-goer, I find this very appealing. If I lived in MN, I'd go out of my way to go there.

Geoff

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 04-05-2008, 12:41 PM:

I worked for one group of theaters that wouldn't sell a ticket for a show 15 minutes after the show started (preview's started). I call it a group because it was all in one city about 5 theaters and about 15 screens so not a chain but a group.

It seemed to work pretty well. I have seen a lot of posting that the first show tickets begin sales 15 minutes before first show time and that sales end for the day 15 minutes after the last show start. I like that one I have people all the time come in 30 minutes or even later on the last show of the day. I have to then take the money and put on the next days sales. I'm thinking of adopting that one myself if my owners will agree.

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 04-05-2008, 02:25 PM:

Some ticketing computers will delete a show time 30 to 45 minutes after the scheduled time, making it impossible to sell tickets to that feature then.

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 04-05-2008, 04:58 PM:

I run three trailers, four tops if one is a short teaser. I instruct floor staff to tell customers arriving after the start time that previews run 7 minutes on average. Half of the time, customers skip on it if you tell them they have missed some of the movie, but many will still go up to 15 minutes or so into it. Our point of sale software cuts off ticket sales a half hour after the start time, requiring a manager to log in to override it after that.

Posted by Deborah Longoria (Member # 4455) on 04-05-2008, 10:21 PM:

I don't know if it's because we're in a small town or what, but about half to a third of our audience arrives either right on time or 10 minutes late. Most of them are herding kids in, so I'm assuming they are trying to get them all organized...but not all.

Part of it is because the previous manager had been known to hold a movie for people to arrive, now we are right on time...with a no later than 5 minutes start (in case of difficulties).

Posted by Ed Alvarado (Member # 2760) on 04-06-2008, 10:15 AM:

where I work we have the 15min rule. to me thats too long so I do the 10min thing but there's alot of people who show up late because they think OH ITS OK WE JUST MISSED 20mins OF FILM. not knowing that I start films 5mins early when there's only 12mins of trailers and then there's just the ones who buy tickets and kick back in the lobby to talk with friends and since nobody's in the auditorium I dont start the films. but I guess to answer your question ill have to say 15mins is too late.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-06-2008, 10:50 AM:

quote: Ed Alvarado
since nobody's in the auditorium I dont start the films

If you've sold tickets and the movie is supposed to start at a specific time this makes no sense. Or do you only do this at the end of the night? Because if I start a movie late waiting for people to enter, the next show could start late.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-07-2008, 11:35 PM:

All the Brandt theatres along forty douch street in Manhattan, when they were still standing...old vaudville houses with weird shapes, some with very short throws and three balconys with booths 6 stories up, putting the projection angle so steep that special brackets had to be fabricated so the takeup magazine didn't get crushed into the floor or the top magazine rammed into the front wall. The screens were typically severely angled toward the booth and still there was terrible keystoning.

These theatres had what they called "continuous run" policy and it distinguished thems from the theatres on Broadway which catered to the more affluent clientel and only seated patrons withing a short window after starting time. On 42nd Street it was much less restricted.

On 42nd Street you could come in anytime you wanted and unlike the Broadway theatres where you only got a single first run feature, paid a higher admission and ate much more expensive popcorn, on 42nd Street you got le cheapo admission (half during the day) and you got cheap popcorn. Sure, you might have to sit a few seats away from a wineo, but you got the same first run feature as the Broadway houses plus catoons and attractions as well as the B feature which was usually an older title.

No matter what time you wandered into the theatre, you could buy a ticket. The last show was the only one which had a cutoff time and that was 30 min into the A feature, which always played last. If you slipped the ticket taker a coupla bucks, he'd let you in no matter if the box office was closed.

I can't imagine how studio counters could keep track of these houses, but they certainly must have had a way because those Brandt theatres did very good business in their hayday. In the early 80s it all began the downward spiral. To survive, some switched over to porn, some went to badly dubbed kung-fu titles, but in the end Disney and Warner Brothers and Ghoul-eani turn a block that once was teaming with color and personally, marquees with huge multi-depth cutouts, into a kind of tacky, antiseptic tourist meca with every Disney animated feature turned into musical extravaganzas on stage and block long stores where you can buy huge stuffed likenesses of Buggs Bunny and Daffy Duck....clean, but no different than 1000 other malls in the USA.

Anyway, there was no cut-off time at the Brandt Theatre's "continuous run" operations; you would be sold a ticket at any time from opening to near closing -- no computer to stop them from selling those roll tickets as long into the movie as there were customers willing to buy.

[ 04-08-2008, 07:36 AM: Message edited by: Frank Angel ]

Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 04-08-2008, 01:17 AM:

Frank,
Didn't these theatres also run into the wee hours of the morning, close a few hours for clean-up or whatever, and reopen like...at 9AM?

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-08-2008, 07:52 AM:

James, yah, I was going to say from 12n to 12m, but that was before the area went to seed. When they started running porn, yes, I believe they stayed opened until like 2-3am. They essentially became flop-houses. Quite a shame. The Times Square renovation recovered some of them -- the New Amsterdam and I believe the Victory are now legitimate houses and restored quite beautifully. I believe the New Amsterdam is currently running Mary Poppins -- the stage show, of course. Neither of the restored theatre show movies.

There are only two movie theatres on the block now (Brandt ran at five on the north side of the street, four I think on the south side. Now only two on that block are movie theatres. The AMC Empire was constructed on the site of a Brandt Empire Theatre -- it was the last one on the south west side of the street. I think only one interior wall of the original was preserved.

The Loews Ewalk on the north side of the street, which now is the Regal No-Name -- at least I couldn't see any name on the marquee the last time I passed -- is not on the site of any of the original Brandt chain. I've never been in it since Regal consumed it. I think that was a totally new construction, and if memory serves, it is on the site of what was an SRO hotel.

Posted by Martin Brooks (Member # 1269) on 04-08-2008, 09:52 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
but in the end Disney and Warner Brothers and Ghoul-eani turn a block that once was teaming with color and personally, marquees with huge multi-depth cutouts, into a kind of tacky, antiseptic tourist meca with every Disney animated feature turned into musical extravaganzas on stage and block long stores where you can buy huge stuffed likenesses of Buggs Bunny and Daffy Duck....clean, but no different than 1000 other malls in the USA.

There's nothing wrong with Disney taking over the New Amsterdam. Lion King was actually an excellent show (although Mary Poppins got bad reviews) and the renovation was so spectacular that Disney gets a complete pass in my book no matter what they do there in the future.

The Disney store is closed and has been for some time. Not sure about the Warner store. Wasn't that in the old Times building? If so, that's becoming a drug store.

People blame the "Disneyfication" of Times Square for the demise of Times Square culture. But in my opinion, it's the mallification (as you state) of 42nd street that's the problem. What is the point of having chain stores on 42nd street that are the same as the tourists can get back home? Seems to me they come to NYC, spend a lot of money in these horrible places and then go back home and say, "what did we do that for? The same stores and restaurants are here." They should have populated those places with New York based stores and restaurants.

The truth is that most people who claim to miss the old 42nd street would never walk down the block. The idea of the old 42nd street sounds great and it's great to read about. But the reality of it was not so great. It was seedy and filled with drug dealers, hustlers and desperate souls seeking a quick buck for quick sex in the back of a movie theatre. I always lived in the city and felt comfortable in midtown even when the city was in decline, but I would never have gone into a 42nd street theatre.

Meanwhile and although I've never gone in, I like the idea of Ripley's museum and Madam Tussauds on 42nd street. While it is touristy, it also has the feel of the old Broadway, which used to have a Ripley's museum (except it's a lot more expensive now.) And B.B. King's is not a bad place to hear music (although the food sucks.) I don't mind the other theatres, although most of the ones that are left actually have the rear of the theatre on 42nd street and the primary entrances on 43rd street.

Hopefully, the current bad economy will kill off the chains and local stores will have a chance to come back if the real estate barons would be a bit less greedy. The reason why there are all chains on 42nd street (and more and more throughout the city) is not because of Guiliani or any mayor - it's because only the chains can afford the ridiculous rents -- it's because of the greed of the real-estate industry. And it's also because the stupid tourists are afraid of anything they don't recognize.

If I could design 42nd street, it would have a branch of Katz's, an Island Burger, a local decent Chinese restaurant, a Totonno's brick oven pizza place, a branch of Eddie's ice-cream and a few other New York only places. I'd also close 42nd between 7th Avenue and 8th avenue to traffic and get lots of street food from selected vendors out there (not dirty water hot dogs, but real hand-crafted food.) Then I'd create a retail store where local designers could show their goods and I'd get Shakespeare and Co. to open a bookstore and J&R to open a music store there.

Then they just need the 24 screen AMC and the 9 screen Regal (nee Loews) to program a little more creatively and they'd have something. Guess it's too much to ask that someone open a revival theatre on 42nd street.

Posted by Bill Gabel (Member # 1105) on 04-09-2008, 09:13 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
Regal No-Name

quote: Martin Brooks
Then they just need the 24 screen AMC and the 9 screen Regal

The Regal is called the Regal E-Walk Stadium 13 (not 9) and the AMC Empire has 25 screens.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 04-15-2008, 07:54 AM:

I agree Martin -- the restoration of the New Victory and the Amsterdam are wonderful and I applaud those. Also agree with your critique of the current state of affairs on the any-mall-USA feel for the place. And great ideas about Made-Only-In-New-York-City shops, just like they have in Portland and other towns to great success.

One of our staff left to work in marketing at the New Victory and she says it's a wonderful operation with very creative people. Of course, no one of right mind would expected that those 9 (or 10 -- I wish I could recall exactly how many) single screen Brandts would be preserved -- that's a time gone by. And you are right, my girlf wouldn't come with me when I did go there. We had a friend who worked as the block manager of the entire chain and I used to hang out with him going from theatre to theatre and she hated that's I'd go. But I do remember the way that block looked and felt before the drug dealers, hustlers and hookers. Boy, it was a fascinating place for a movie fan.

Here's my GREAT 42nd Street/MIDNIGHT COWBOY story. If you've heard this before, forgive me....it now takes me a good 20 min into a movie to realize I've already seen it. I guess in a few years I won't ever have to rent or buy another DVD....I'll be able to watch all of them over and over. But I digress. No matter, I'll tell it again just cause I love this story.

I had gone to The City (what we outer borough dwellers, me from Brooklyn, call Manhattan) to see a few movies, typically I'd make a day of it when I was off from school -- I'd go to three of the Brandt houses on 42nd Street, one right after the other and I'd be able to see six movies, cartoons and lots of attractions and eat stale popcorn, the Brandt's gawdawful, shrivled up hot dogs -- Bon Bons for desert. It was a movie-lover's wet dream.

I exited the subway on the north-east side of the block and strolled past the theatres heading west, taking in all those gawdy, fascinating cut-away displays in front of every theatre --3-sheets that they kind of made into the equivalent of standees, cutting out images and the title lettering, gluing them to plywood and then gluing them over another 3-sheet as the base so they stood out in bas-relief. They sprayed them with lots of glitter as the finishing touch. These were fitted around around the theatres' entrance ways. It was part honky-tonk, part Hollywood showbiz, totally NYC glitz.

I was most interested in seeing MIDNIGHT COWBOY, the hottest title on the block. I past the other theatres and headed into the Selwyn about midway down the block. I entered the lobby, bought my ticket, grab my food for the day and settle down to see a double bill of MIDNIGHT COWBOY and some other forgotten title. Very soon into the movie, there is John Voight, new to NYC, and he's strolling down the very same route I just did less than a half-hour before. And there, to my utter amazement, he stops in front of the Selwyn, pauses and, DAMN, he's coming right into the theatre....the very same theatre where I am sitting WATCHING HIM! I swear, it was so surreal that I actually turned around as he walked down the isle on screen and for a split nano-second, actually expected to see him coming down the isle. Talk about your Twilight Zone/Suspension of Disbelief moments -- but one great, SPECTACULAR movie moment!!

And it can never happen again.

And, by the way, if anyone wants to get a feel for how the street looked pre-sleeze or maybe just on the sleeze cusp, there's is a very good shot of Voight walking down 42nd Street in that film.

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 04-22-2008, 09:26 PM:

We don't have a cut off point except for the last show of the night since our box office closes 15 minutes after the last show has started. But we always get those people who show up about 25 to 30 minutes after the movie was scheduled to start. And we only run 3 trailers on each movie so theres about 8 minutes of trailers at most. So we tell them "you know the main feature has been on for about 20 minutes." and we'll get the response "well thats just all previews" or "Credits".

We have so far only had one person who asked for a refund because people were coming in late to a movie, but that was on opening night for the film. Usually we tell crowds that seem like they are going to be loud that they have to be quiet for the people already watching the movie.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-14-2008, 08:23 AM:

My policy is 20 minutes after the show starts - which is also when the showing expires on the box office computers. My theatre generally runs about 10 minutes of previews and no rolling stock ads. So this means up to about 10 minutes into the movie.

Generally the only exception I make to this is a known regular customer or someone who is meeting a group that is already in the theatre. If someone who already has a ticket shows up really late, I usually let them in unless it's either very crowded or the movie is almost over. When you get down to it, is this any different than someone getting up to use the rest room?

As much as we are trying to preserve the movie going experience, we also have to provide customer service and realize we are not running a Nazi state. The main reason I set a cut off time is to avoid the question "can we stay to watch the first half since we came in late".

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 05-14-2008, 11:00 PM:

I hate the people who try to stay for the next show and then put up a big argument about how they showed up late and missed the first half, and than tell us we didn't warn them they missed the beginning of the movie because they were too dumb to realize that we said they were missing the movie and not just the previews.

Posted by Ben Goodman (Member # 4770) on 05-15-2008, 01:51 AM:

Our box office computers scroll the movie after 25 minutes, so that's when we stop selling tickets for it-- and we regularly have about 20 minutes of preshow too, including trailers. 6 trailers + ads will do that...

If anyone wants to see a movie after 25 minutes in, they'd better have a damned good reason. The only one I'll really accept at first glance is "my family is in there and I'd rather see half of the movie than sit in the car" or something along those lines-- a parent meeting up with a kid, etc.

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 05-15-2008, 06:38 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
When you get down to it, is this any different than someone getting up to use the rest room?

Yes. People who come in from outside and are trying to locate people they know, or simply can't see because they are not adjusted to a dark theater are way more intrusive than someone getting up to use the restroom.

I HATE people arriving 20 minutes late, interfering with my movie 10 minutes into it. As a manager, I understand we have to balance it so as to not piss off customers, but it works both ways. As a customer, I am angered by inconsiderate people that show up late and disrupt me when I had the common sense to arrive early.

quote: Justin Hamaker
The main reason I set a cut off time is to avoid the question "can we stay to watch the first half since we came in late".

The owners here allow anyone to buy tickets no matter how late they are. I don't like it, but I don't own the theater. But, they instruct us to tell people that they will NOT be permitted to stay and watch what they missed.

Posted by Michael Moore (Member # 3867) on 05-22-2008, 01:02 PM:

at our place we have no cut off for tick sales. the go on sale at 6:00 sharp. However most of our patrons fashionably, purchase tickets at about 6:50 PM. On any given film we only project maybe 2 to 3 trailers. we still have people buying well into the trailers and the first few min of the movie.

We start the movie at 7:00 sharp, unless we have a huge line then we may delay for 3 or 5 min.

One time when we were screening "An inconvenient Truth" I had a patron actually come up to the booth and bank on the door demanding for me to stop the film, and rewind it back, beucase he just got off work, and did not have time to get home for dinner, and rushed to the theatre, and had several friends in line who needed to see the film on time!

I kindly stated, movie was started at 7:05, we have almost 18 mins of trailers on this film. If you can't get here on time then I'm sorry. He said what do you want me to do... I said again get here on time, he called me an ass hole.

just one example of the snobs we get who thinks the movie should start when they want it to start.

Mike Moore

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 05-22-2008, 02:37 PM:

We sometimes delay the film about 5 min when there's a long line at box and concession stand for a movie, but sometimes someone with think it's smart to call us on his cell to say that the movie hasn't started yet. And who ever picks up the phone doesn't think "Somebody is using the phone in the theater."

I would find it funny if someone said you're in the wrong auditorium, and once the person comes out point to the sign saying "an open phone in the auditorium will result in immediate expulsion with no refund".

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-22-2008, 02:57 PM:

Are you actually suggesting you'd kick someone out for using a cell phone in an auditorium where a movie isn't playing, especially when they're using it to point out the absolute fact that you didn't start the movie on time?

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 05-22-2008, 11:23 PM:

Well I wouldn't actually do that, but it does get annoying when people use their cell phones in the theater even though the movie hasn't started.

Myself, I hate starting movies late for any reason since really it's less time we have to clean for the next show, and if it gets delayed too long, than the next show would be delayed. The later people show up for a movie, they know they're going to miss something.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-23-2008, 09:45 AM:

quote: Patrick Dunn
but it does get annoying when people use their cell phones in the theater even though the movie hasn't started.

I don't see why. Who are they distracting at that point? The people NOT watching a movie?!

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 05-23-2008, 10:00 AM:

Dont you know Chris everyone shows up early to play the "trivia" slides on the screen advertising, and listen to the latest "Movie Tunes" compact disc!

Posted by Patrick Dunn (Member # 3333) on 05-23-2008, 11:08 AM:

Except for those who show up 45 minutes after the start time so they would get into the theater right when your 10 minute trailer package ended. Makes perfect sense doesn't it?

And for people who stop selling after 25 minutes: Would you still sell tickets for the person who comes in about an hour late, but is meeting up with their family who are already in the movie?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-23-2008, 12:10 PM:

Patrick, it really depends on the situation. It's a business and we are here to make money, but we are also charged with preserving the movie going experience. The case of someone showing up 30+ minutes late who has a legitimate reason to go in is rare.

But I absolutely will not admit someone who just shows up late because they don't bother to pay attention to the schedules. It's basically the same reason why we tell people to stop talking or turn off their cell phones.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-23-2008, 07:42 PM:

quote:
Dont you know Chris everyone shows up early to play the "trivia" slides on the screen advertising, and listen to the latest "Movie Tunes" compact disc!

Exactly. No one shows up early just to have a good seat and sit around chatting with friends.

[Smile]

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-26-2008, 05:05 AM:

One of the things that's come up many times this weekend is people showing up 10 minutes late for Indiana Jones. While we haven't ever been technically sold out, I have completely cut off additional ticket sales as soon as the previews are over. Given that the empty seats were scattered through out the auditorium, I just didn't think it was fair to allow people to go in once the movie started to try and find those few remaining seats.

As an aside, I get so irritated by those people who buy their tickets early and then get mad because they can't find a seat when they show up 5 minutes before show time. Especially when you're advising everyone to arrive 30-45 minutes early.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 05-26-2008, 12:11 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
I have completely cut off additional ticket sales as soon as the previews are over.

We do something like that at our drive-in.

For the big multiplexes, having the ability to start the same movie every 20 to 30 minutes must make this less of a problem. ?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 05-26-2008, 01:35 PM:

I wouldn't know about the ability to start a movie every 20-30 minutes. We tried to get a second print of both Indy and Iron Man and Paramount basically told us we don't do enough business to justify a second print.

Posted by Michael McGovern (Member # 4807) on 05-26-2008, 04:08 PM:

Now to those of you saying you cut off ticket sales, do you work for independent chains? As far as I know, if anyone at any of the corporations ie: Regal, AMC, ever refused to sell a ticket to a patron, and corporate were to find out, it would likely get them in a heap of trouble, if not fired. I agree, people shouldn't enter a movie and cause a disruption, but I know for a fact that at least Regal absolutely does not want you to turn away patrons for any reason.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-01-2008, 07:24 PM:

I just had a real doozey. Lady shows up an hour late for Indiana Jones. Box office cashier tells her she can't sell tickets more than 20 minutes after the show starts. Customer demands to see the manager. I tell the customer that we cut off the ticket sales because it's a distraction to the other customers. It's ok now that I've told her that part.

Then she goes on about not wanting to see the Las Vegas movie, but she'll go anyway because it's the only thing starting and she wants to see a movie. She goes on to say she drove 20 minutes to get here but didn't bother to check the show times.

What really blows my mind is she's looking at the movie times and said it's been her experience that movies always start around 3:00-4:00 - yet it's 5:00 now.

A few minutes later I see her sitting on a bench in the hallway. When I go to point out where the movie is, she kind of yells at me because no one specifically told her she could go in and is upset because other people went in.

I swear there are some people that I just have to wonder how thy managed to survive to adulthood. This lady just seemed to be absolutely clueless!