Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Recommendations for POS (point of sale) systems

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Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-04-2008, 11:54 PM:

We're currently using RTS at our drive-in and don't like it at all. It's fine for the box office, but I'm not happy with the reporting and I think the concession site is overly complicated.

I'm curious to know if anyone has experience with other systems which they would recommend - preferably something that's price competitive with RTS.

For what it's worth, we're using Venue at our cinema and it's generally a very good system. However, we can't justify the price for a seasonal drive-in.

Posted by Robert LaValley (Member # 4319) on 06-05-2008, 09:18 AM:

I used venue (retriever software) at my one screen and your right the price is alittle high for light use but I do have to say out of the cheaper POS systems I liked that one the best. As for expensive ones you can't beat radiant software but I guess in the end you get what you pay for.

My company used to run Splice software, and it wasnt too bad although I dont know the price of it. They switched to Titan after the company was sold and I dont recommend that one at all. Too too many bugs.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-05-2008, 11:32 AM:

I am really suprised that you don't like RTS. I have used RTS and absolutely love it, as does everyone else I have ever heard of who used it. If you don't like the reports you should contact Greg at RTS they will custom program any reports you want, the way you want them. Do you use the Touch Screens in your concession stand? I think that makes a big difference.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-05-2008, 12:04 PM:

I have experience with Radiant, Vista Entertainment Solutions (the POS company, not the Microsoft product) and a little with RTS.

If you can afford it Radiant and Vista are excellent systems - over the 2 years I've dealt with Vista there have been minimal issues and none have been sales stoppers. Radiant is also excellent, my experience is only with their version as of 2005 and there were rarely any sale stopping issues.

Vista has a full suite of products - POS, sign software to use PCs to drive box office signage, a canned website for selling tickets, ticket sales by phone, self service software, mobile POS on PDAs, etc . . . . . . as far as I know the only components that Vista has that Radiant does not are video signage, canned website and mobile POS.

The brief time I spent with RTS I found it to be a solid, economical POS system - very good for the small exhibitor; I found a security issue that precludes me from using it (some see it as a "feature" and not a security issue), not to mention the lack of the ancilliary modules like web, IVR, etc.

I've heard a lot of companies are leaving Splyce for Radiant or Vista . . . . . . and that Titan has some bugs that they definitely need to work on (and are).

If you want RTS pricing you may be stuck with RTS - but try calling Radiant to see if they will work with you on price . . . . . . Vista may also work with you since they structure pricing on a per screen basis.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-05-2008, 12:28 PM:

I used Radiant Theatre Management System when I was with Loews and while it is a pretty stable system it is VERY VERY expensive. It is also not without it's problems. The Radiant systen is built on top of visual fox pro databases which can become corrupted sometimes also, if you ever lose your managers station no one will be able to log in to any other terminals or record any sales into the databases. RTS does not have those issues.

I always thought a system where you could use a handheld PDA type device with a built in barcode reader would be awesome for a theatre. You give you supervisors these devices and when they make transfers (stocking stands etc...) they can scan the items in and enter the amount then enter the transfer and have it transmitted via WIFI to the back office. Also for counts just scan the item and enter the amount, same for spoilage.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-05-2008, 02:32 PM:

quote: Sean McKinnon
I am really suprised that you don't like RTS. I have used RTS and absolutely love it, as does everyone else I have ever heard of who used it.

Perhaps I'm expecting too much from RTS, but I find it to be overly complicated in many areas and too simplistic in others.

For example. If we want to maintain proper security and not allow cashiers to open the cash drawer, it takes something like 9 steps for a manager to open the drawer.

While creating a new concession item is relatively simple, I've found all of the various options related to stock rooms, inventory, and what not to be overly complicated.

On the other hand, I can not find a report which even shows void totals for concessions let alone the amounts for each register. I did find an option which allows you to export void information, but there doesn't seem to be a distinction between cleared items and voids of previously tendered items/sales.

Perhaps part of my dissatisfaction comes from the fact that we have RTS in place at a seasonal drive-in so I'm not spending nearly as much time using it as the POS system at our indoor cinema. But that also indicates to me that RTS is not a very intuitive system.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-05-2008, 02:47 PM:

Vista has modules for PDAs - wireless concession/ticket sales, wireless barcode scanning for print at home ticketing (or tracking entry/exiting of all tickets) and stock entering.

Last I knew Radiant was moving some (or all) components of their database to SQL (Vista already is 100% SQL) - they also may have revisited their pricing due to losing Regal and AMC (or at least I heard AMC is moving to a different POS)

The biggest plus of RTS is you don't need a robust server - any old PC will do and you can run it on a selling station as well . . . . . come to think about it you can easily do the same with Vista - i.e. run a selling station from the main server, but you are still locked into buying Windows server software like with Radiant.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-05-2008, 04:17 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
it takes something like 9 steps for a manager to open the drawer.

Your cash drawers won't open with a little key?

quote: Justin Hamaker
On the other hand, I can not find a report which even shows void totals for concessions let alone the amounts for each register.

To be honest it's been almost fifteen years now since I actually used RTS on a daily basis but I want to say that when you go to

Action>Station>Close Station it should print out a report with that information? The guys that run RTS (Greg Borr (sp?) participates here on film-tech) are very willing to write custom patches to give you practically anything you want. If there is a specific report you would like I am sure they will program it for you.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-05-2008, 05:23 PM:

We have been using RTS for 4 or 5 years and like it alot. I agree that it's pretty complicated in some ways and not too user-friendly, and their documentation (online help) is poorly done. But it's robust and gives us everything we need.

We use the keyboard interface for the boxoffice/main office, and a touch screen for the concession. This works well for us. My only gripe about the keyboard interface is the screen is very blank and ugly since we only have the one screen...I wish they would add a way to put a graphic in the blank area.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-05-2008, 06:45 PM:

Sean
I do have an email out to RTS support about the reporting issues. Hopefully they are as responsive as you say.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-05-2008, 07:17 PM:

Justin:

The problem with POS systems for drive-ins is that there aren't enough of us to really be worthwhile to them.

To their credit, RTS stepped up to the plate. I don't know of any other company that has included features that are relatively exclusive to our needs.

The single ticket concept was enough to convince me. They put that in the system within a month of my asking them. The car (transaction) count, instead of counting people on the front screen was also a biggie for us. Before that, it was hard to keep track of how many spaces we had left in our fields.

Frankly, I don't use the inventory count-in process. We build too many food products for it to be very helpful. We have several vendors, including picking up some supplies ourselves. For us, itemizing in the system would be too cumbersome, and once you get behind, it can get away from you fast. On the other hand, it does do a good job of tracking our products for statistical purposes. It should report voids and "no-sale" cash drawer opens for you. The system logs most every keypress from all stations.

At one time, RTS was considering dropping the back kitchen "pickup" window, which we use heavily here. Since then, enough theatres have made use of it that this is no longer a problem. They've also made several modifications to that feature, based on our request, so it's reasonable to assume they've done the same for others.

One thing I've notice though, is that we all seem to have our own personal list of "desireables", when it comes to the POS equipment. RTS is at least as responsive as any company I do business with. However, one has to realize that they can't be expected to meet everyone's individual needs. There are some detail items I've suggested over the years that haven't made muster over there. I guess those things were more important to me than anyone else. Given what the system does bring to the table though, I can live with that.

I'd try to make this work. As far as I know, RTS is the only system that comes close to working for a drive-in... and the price is right, too.

RTS has a discussion board, for chatting about their software and feature sets. I'd bet that there are RTS users here who would be willing to help out over the phone or email, including me.

Jack

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 06-05-2008, 11:23 PM:

FYI: Greg Borr left RTS long ago.

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-06-2008, 12:35 AM:

Jack
As an aside, what food items do you sell besides hot dogs, nachos, popcorn, and candy? And if you don't mind me asking, how many cars will you get on a normal Friday or Saturday?

Besides what's mentioned above, we also do pretzels which we microwave to order. I've considered cook to order pizzas, but I don't know if they would sell.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-06-2008, 10:52 AM:

In my experience I have found the cook to order individual pizzas to be very succesful, but it depends on your area and specific situation. If you add them I would print coupons in the local paper for a free pizza with purchase of a drink and admission or something to get people to try them. I know that I think aramark or USA foodservice has UNO brand personal pizzas which were very very succesful at one theatre I worked at.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-06-2008, 11:52 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
what food items do you sell besides hot dogs, nachos, popcorn, and candy? And if you don't mind me asking, how many cars will you get on a normal Friday or Saturday?

Besides what's mentioned above, we also do pretzels which we microwave to order. I've considered cook to order pizzas, but I don't know if they would sell.

We have pretzels and "Cinepretzels" (J&J snacks). We cook the regular pretzels in our pizza ovens... the Cinepretzels in the microwave.

We get frozen 15" pizza shells from our foodservice provider (FSA), and build our pizzas here.

We sell chicken strips in a basket of fries (Brakebush chicken) along with ranch or barbecue sauce dip cups, battered mozarella sticks with a little pizza sauce for dip, nachos, "super nachos", corn dogs, burgers, chicken sandwiches, hot dogs, "pizza dogs" and philly cheese steak sandwiches, which we do on-site.

Anything a customer orders, which involves something from our back kitchen, shows up on the RTS pickup window... something like what they use at McDonalds, Burger King & the like. If it's just pop, popcorn & candy, it stays up front & the kitchen doesn't see it.

We added cotton candy, some years back... huge!

Unfortunately, very little of this is guaranteed to clone over to another drive-in. There are different local and regional tastes to consider, as well as your theatres's size and capacity and the amount of space you can dedicate to cooking equipment. A large part of our building is kitchen. On the other hand, many small, single screeners have all their food prep gear along the back wall, and are pretty limited in terms of what they can do. It's probably worthwhile to see what others do, but in the end, you really have to cut & paste to see what works for you.

Gas and/or power capacity matters, because you need enough equipment to cook for a lot of people in a short period of time. If we had all day to serve a normal crowd out here, the kind of gear we have would be insane. When you compress it into 3 or 4 hours though, recovery time becomes a big deal.

We have 3 screens... 450, 300, 300, give or take. Once school lets out, we could have a couple thousand people running around the place.

"Normal" attendance is hard to quantify. Films, weather, time of season & other area activities all have an effect. Right now, we seem to be stuck in "early Spring mode"... It's raining today, and the week might be a wash.

Posted by James Kulaprathazhe (Member # 4782) on 06-07-2008, 11:44 AM:

Any one can tell me which one is better? RTS or Sensible Cinema POS.? Which one is faster, reliable, get every day activity reports, and how easy to get support (trouble shootings) from manufacture?

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 06-07-2008, 12:38 PM:

I'm running a demo of Sensible Cinema right now. I think the Box Office for RTS is much simpler. The concession seems to be much simpler than RTS. I can't really say about the reports because I'm not using it in a real world setting so I can see how the report compare with cash and such. Sensible Cinema beats RTS hands down for overall appearance.

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 06-07-2008, 01:15 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Perhaps I'm expecting too much from RTS, but I find it to be overly complicated in many areas and too simplistic in others.

Took the words out of my mouth. Although RTS is an economical system and at the price it really is the best option for someone on a tight budget, it leaves a lot to be desired for multi-site companies or companies with more than just basic POS needs.

To their defense, they continue to add features and their support is very good.

If you are considering cook to order items, RTS has the functionality to set up a "fill order" station. Certain items can be set to display on the fill order station with a printed reciept with the customer order # being printed at the time of sale. Once the item is ready for the customer, the fill order station displays the current orders. You finish them out and the attached printer will also print up a ticket with the corresponding order number for pickup. It sounds like John is using this function at his drive-in.

We tried to use it in our kitchen for certain cooked items we sell in our concessions stand. It worked, but proved to be too confusing to the kitchen staff since other orders were coming in from the table service POS system.

RTS has a "table service" option within their software, but so far all it does is change the splash screen at startup to say "RTS Restaurant"

Clarity Commerce Solutions is one of the more popular venue pos systems in Europe and Marcus Theaters has migrated their entire operation from Radiant to Clarity and the folks I talk to said it is very good. They also offer restaurant POS and a number of other modules and options like wireless POS and such.

Radiant is still one of the highest priced POS systems for exhibition that I've dealt with, regardless of them losing Regal and AMC. Their software is probably the most robust I've seen and I'm wondering if the theater POS really isn't that important to them anymore since they purchased Aloha restaurant POS, which is a direct competitor to Micros. Both are widely used in most restaurants.

Posted by Robert LaValley (Member # 4319) on 06-07-2008, 02:06 PM:

quote: Tristan Lane
Radiant is still one of the highest priced POS systems for exhibition that I've dealt with, regardless of them losing Regal and AMC.

Radiant lost regal and amc? what are they using now?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-07-2008, 02:19 PM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
Sensible Cinema beats RTS hands down for overall appearance.

I have often wished RTS would take some steps to make their screens "look better." There are no options for adjusting the size of anything.

Posted by David Zylstra (Member # 4230) on 06-07-2008, 02:31 PM:

quote: Robert LaValley
Radiant lost regal and amc? what are they using now?

I beleive Regal is using Allure (started by the same person who started Prysm (sp?), which became Radiant).

I heard AMC was having some custom system done, but I have not heard specifics.

Radiant's tag line at ShoWest was that they were not just for the big chains so I think they may have put some effort into better pricingoptions for smaller exhibitors.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-07-2008, 03:35 PM:

RTS has been working on a major rewrite for some time. I don't know when it will release, but it's supposed to allow for more flexibility. Apparently, the current database scheme limits some of the functionality we might like.

Screen esthetics are a personal issue that seems a matter of choice. I don't have a problem with the way it looks, though I will admit that the Sensible system is has a flashier presentation.

Whether to use one or the other amounts to your personal needs. The Sensible Cinema software is purchased outright... you own it. There are no other charges involved, other than possibly those related to credit card and internet ticket processing. Since there is no subsequent revenue stream from you to Sensible, you must pay for anything past the most simple email-based questions. Updates are infrequent and the "support staff" is small. For me, that didn't work at all. When I was using the software, it was a "staff" of one... the owner, and he wasn't easy to contact or deal with.

The RTS software can be downloaded from their web site. It is fully operational, except that any station that actually conducts a monetary transaction must be licensed. The licenses are annual. You can network any number of unlicensed machines for monitoring and database administration. You only have to pay for the ones that actually sell or void something. For the money, you get frequent updates (downloaded from the internet). Support is included. Phones lines are staffed during business hours, and they have emergency pagers to get you in touch with someone after-hours.

I had my RTS system working with two sites. It seemed to work fine, but my needs may not have been as complex as others. In any case, having used both RTS and Sensible, RTS does a much better job for me.

The RTS "table service" function may not be fully developed. I asked about it last year, and I think they may be regretting that the system shows it. It looks to me like they didn't fully think out the functionality before they put the option in. Hopefully, that will work itself out. It does help them a lot when their customers spend the time to tell them what they need. I got a lot of my "wish list" worked into the system that way.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 06-07-2008, 08:43 PM:

Jack: When you submit a "wish" to RTS and they integrate it for you, do you have to re-submit your list of tweaks whenever they release a new version or do your requests automatically get included?

Posted by Mike Spaeth (Member # 524) on 06-08-2008, 01:39 AM:

We use RTS and the inventory functions are awesome. We do nightly station counts, and RTS facilitates this perfectly. What may be overcomplicated for some is perfect for us!

Posted by Tristan Lane (Member # 1169) on 06-08-2008, 04:34 AM:

quote: David Zylstra
Radiant's tag line at ShoWest was that they were not just for the big chains so I think they may have put some effort into better pricingoptions for smaller exhibitors.

I beg to differ on this. There are a couple of things that have swayed me and others from Radiant. The key item being hardware. Radiant claims they will allow 3rd party harware to be used, but charge an insane amount for "hardware evaluation" and they charge this fee per station. This to me seems asinine and overall just a tactic to sell hardware along with their software. The fees associated amount to using your current hardware equal purchasing new hardware.

POS runs on a PC and 90% of the software out there runs on a windows platform using keyboard emulated MSR readers and USB or Serial touchscreens. The hardware is nothing more than a computer with a touchscreen.

On RTS: They are working on a new version, which migrates all database and user interface functions over to .net platform. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. It gives RTS the ability to easily make changes to the software.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-08-2008, 12:54 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
When you submit a "wish" to RTS and they integrate it for you, do you have to re-submit your list of tweaks whenever they release a new version or do your requests automatically get included?

If parts of your wish list show up in the software, they're permanent. All subsequent upgrades will include those "tweaks".

quote:
the inventory functions are awesome. We do nightly station counts, and RTS facilitates this perfectly. What may be overcomplicated for some is perfect for us!

Well put, Mike. That part of the system doesn't work well for us, but we're a single-location, independent operation, and have a pretty basic process for keeping track of what we have.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 06-08-2008, 02:36 PM:

quote: Tristan Lane
On RTS: They are working on a new version, which migrates all database and user interface functions over to .net platform. I'm not sure if this is good or bad. It gives RTS the ability to easily make changes to the software.

I highly doubt it's to "give them the ability to easily make changes." They already can easily make changes (they have their own source code and programmers).

My guess is the reason they're switching to .net is more to do with the fact that there are more .net programmers out there now than whatever setup they're using right now. Like if none of their applicants have used the language they're using and they're having the older guys retire, it's definitely in their best interest to switch things around.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-08-2008, 03:05 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
There are no options for adjusting the size of anything.

You can adjust the concession screen... to a point... by setting how many items will show per line. Reducing the number should make the buttons bigger. That may be about it, though.

Posted by Sean McKinnon (Member # 612) on 06-08-2008, 05:18 PM:

IIRC you could make buttons larger in Radiant TMS by selecting the same item on multiple opposing buttons.

Posted by Brad Allen (Member # 470) on 06-13-2008, 09:57 PM:

RTS, has been around since the DOS days. It was written so it would run on practically any lowly PC system.

I've used RTS since the DOS days, and when it was a one man show, Rob the owner and chief programmer, bottle washer and cook was the entire operation.

That is why it has outgrown it's current programming language, its still written basically the same as when it was ran on DOS.

So yes, .net will allow Rob and crew to do things they've wanted to do and add things, but couldn't in the old DOS themed version.

New Version 8 Beta is available for download and trial on their website.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 06-15-2008, 02:48 AM:

Thanks for the update on that, Brad. I didn't know they'd made it available yet.

Jack

Posted by System Notices (Member # 2357) on 08-30-2009, 11:16 PM:

It has been 441 days since the last post.

Posted by Cassandra Palko (Member # 5362) on 08-30-2009, 11:16 PM:

I know this is an old topic - but I read in this thread a statement about Clarity Commerce Solutions and Marcus Theatres.

I was there for that conversion. It was only one of Marcus's locations that Clarity was tried in. It was used for a year and a half. Clarity had the benefit of being able to integrate theatre and restaurant very well. Unfortunately there were some big problems with the software. Tech support was called on a daily basis for many reasons. When the US division of Clarity Commerce Solutions filed Chapter 11 bankruptcy I was not surprised, and I was relived that a new system was on it's way.

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-31-2009, 08:20 PM:

What did they install?

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 09-01-2009, 09:34 AM:

quote: Justin Hamaker
I'm running a demo of Sensible Cinema right now. I think the Box Office for RTS is much simpler. The concession seems to be much simpler than RTS. I can't really say about the reports because I'm not using it in a real world setting so I can see how the report compare with cash and such. Sensible Cinema beats RTS hands down for overall appearance.

Actually I think you'll find that Rusty also gives you alot better phone support as well. I've used his stuff before and have had excellent luck with it.

Mark

Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 09-01-2009, 12:46 PM:

We purchased RTS for the concessions at our drive-in and it seems to be fine - despite some frustration and confusion with configuring items.

Maybe it's just because I'm used to using another system, but I do think RTS is overly complex to configure while offering less than satisfactory output. The complexity might be understandable if the system was flexible, but it seems to be very rigid in a number of areas.

The one positive I can say about RTS is that it's been very reliable - hardware issues not withstanding.

Posted by Cassandra Palko (Member # 5362) on 09-01-2009, 02:15 PM:

We use RSM by Radiant where I am located. Anybody else out there using it?

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 09-02-2009, 11:13 AM:

quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
Actually I think you'll find that Rusty also gives you alot better phone support as well. I've used his stuff before and have had excellent luck with it.
Mark

You and I must be on different planets then, Mark.

I had Sensible Cinema in my quad before I'd even heard of RTS.

Without getting into detail, it was exclusively Rusty's idea of support that drove me to RTS... nothing else. His screens may have more flash, but that doesn't sell tickets.

I've never regretted the decision, never looked back and have never seen a reason to. RTS has its days, but their support can't be compared to "Sensible's"... their support programs are simply not comparable.

Jack

Posted by Jeff Knoll (Member # 1145) on 12-17-2009, 08:42 AM:

This is an old thread and much of the discussion was from 2008. Is there any new feedback to pass on? We are shopping for new POS software now becuase we feel we have to leave our beloved RTS system since they have not integrated Canadian Interac processing into their product (VERY important up here). I am going to strike out today to see what we can find. RTS has left big shoes to fill...

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-17-2009, 09:25 AM:

Sorry to hear about that, Jeff.

I do remember Canadian card processing being an issue back then. Too bad they haven't figured out how to deal with that.

For that matter, we have been waiting for the 'new version' for a lot longer than you'd expect to be reasonable.

Posted by Jeff Knoll (Member # 1145) on 12-17-2009, 09:32 AM:

I have found a programmer in Canada that will work with them. I have just asked Gareth about it and he is going to talk to Rob - so we will see if they are open to that idea. I would hate to change - it has been great for us!

Posted by Hordur Valgardsson (Member # 5482) on 12-27-2009, 08:54 AM:

around a year ago i was looking into pos systems to replace our custom made pos solution that is no longer being developed and only half-complete due to financial difficulties of the developement company.

i found that there was only one realistic option for our 5 cinemas, both from the prizing standpoint and from the quality of the system
i would reccommend looking into the solution from the estonian guys at markus software
http://www.markus.ee/

it is by far the most fair prized solution i found, they charge per auditorium and they have all the features needed for running a single cinema or a chain of cinemas.
also they provide an excellent level of support.

Posted by Geena Phillips (Member # 3726) on 12-27-2009, 01:23 PM:

I used to hate RTS... until I used Vista POS (which, in a delicious example of irony, doesn't work with Windows Vista). Now, I dream of the relative simplicity of RTS, even with its stupid unfixed bug of failing to list midnight shows on the correct day.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-27-2009, 02:32 PM:

To get around the above-mentioned stupid bug, we just put midnight shows at 12:05 AM.

The one report I would like to see from RTS is, I would like to generate a list of all the movies we played for a date range, with film company, rating, gross, rental, and number of tickets sold. I don't understand why it can't do that.