Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Rules are meant to be broken?

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Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 12-28-2008, 08:02 AM:

Rules are meant to be broken?

I have heard this statement all my life and do understand that it seems to be a real thrill to some people to break rules. I was raised to believe that rules were not meant to be broken, that laws were laws and that rules were rules and that doing right was something you just do. You do the right thing not out fear of being caught or because you don't want to be punished but because doing the right thing is how you are suppose to live your life.

In the theater business there are reasons that film companies have become so hard to work with. Their reasons that film companies charge such high percentages for film we as operators like to say it is because the film companies are greedy or are out to break the theater. Those reasons may or may not be accurate but there are other reasons as well.

A certain Drive-in is currently operating only on weekends they openly report their grosses to Rentrak and EDI for the world to see; however, at Thanksgiving and again at Christmas they have been open during the week but not reported those grosses to Rentrak or EDI. They have also opened films those weeks ahead of the national opening day. These special open days were only for their “special” customers who subscribe to their newsletter. Actually it is just that the newsletter was the only means of advertising used for these films.

The other theater in town, an multi screen indoor, is aware of what the drive in is doing. They have not informed the film companies feeling it isn't their business to dobb them in. Film companies are aware of this type of actions and when one group does it they come down hard, pulling films or refusing to play films with operators for specific periods of times. They have been known to take the offending owners to court to try to recover unreported incomes.

Viewing this as a third party, not activity involved with either operator, I am slightly appalled by the drive in operator. What he is doing is clearly a violation of the rules and clearly not the right thing. It puts the other operator at a disadvantage if he turns them in he runs the risk as looking to both the film company and the other operator as suffering from sour grapes. If he doesn't and the other operator continues the practice the drive in gets the first customers and doesn't have to pay the percentages to the film company.

Of course, the drive in operator runs a risk of seriously jeopardizing his relationship with the film companies, could lose first run status or even the ability to book film. He would have to be caught for any of that to take effect. Working to his favor this drive in is a Podunk little drive in a tucked away part of the country so not really on the radar for the film companies.

Now I realize that a lot of operators under report the grosses and I know that being honest is matter of personal morals; however, it is so blatant that it is almost begging to be caught. Would the film companies even care about this? I am guessing it depends on how the booker feels about the operator.

See this little drama transpire I can see the reasoning behind a film companies attitudes sometimes.

What do you guys think no big deal or is it a big deal?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-28-2008, 09:37 AM:

The moral dilema is: "Given that everyone cheats on taxes,causing the taxes to be too high, so you should cheat, too?"

This problem, like middle east peace, will be around for a long time for all of us to ponder. Louis

Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 12-28-2008, 11:14 AM:

I know of a number of owners that have "turned in" the competition when he very definately knows and can proove the other owner is cheating.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-28-2008, 02:30 PM:

Under-reporting grosses is bad, but opening a movie early for "special" customers (and then probably not reporting those grosses, either) is really outrageous.

Ron, if you know of an operator doing this you should definitely turn him in. Sign up for their "newsletter" and the next time it happens, instead of just posting here, actually do something about it. Make a copy of their "ad" and send it to the film company involved.

quote: Ron Funderburg
Working to his favor this drive in is a Podunk little drive in a tucked away part of the country so not really on the radar for the film companies.

The film company would still like to know. Even a little money, they care about. There was a theatre near here (now closed) who "stacked" another movie on top of one of the late '90s Star Wars reissue films, got caught, and was taken off service by Fox for one year. This in a town of under 3000 people.

I think of the saying "rules are meant to be broken" as more of a joke, or when something unusual happens that 'just shouldn't happen,' than a real life fact.

[ 12-28-2008, 08:02 PM: Message edited by: Mike Blakesley ]

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 12-28-2008, 08:59 PM:

How about if a theatre, that is first run, has a special "reduced price" day to help bolster his business due to these recent hard times?

Does this also fall into this scenario as well along with also the possibility of jepardizing his relatioship with the film companies?

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 12-28-2008, 09:31 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
How about if a theatre, that is first run, has a special "reduced price" day to help bolster his business due to these recent hard times?

Isn't that why the studios also have a ticket per capita requirement so that if you're ticket per cap is below the threshold the owner has to make up the difference to "pull" it up to meet it? That's always been my understanding.

Posted by Ky Boyd (Member # 23) on 12-28-2008, 09:53 PM:

Certain studios are very diligent about auditing and billing theatres that fall below per cap or exceed the allowable ratio of passes. Fox now considers any show starting at 5:30pm or later to be a primetime show. In the long run it doesn't pay to be anything less than honest as an operator. The studios are like elephants...they never forget a slight.

As to the original issue of this thread, I agree with Mike, turn them in. The rules only work if everyone plays by the same rules.

Posted by Galen Murphy-Fahlgren (Member # 4535) on 12-28-2008, 10:23 PM:

Well, following arbitrary rules for the sake of following rules (or laws) is not necessarily doing right, but in this case, they are breaching an agreement they made, and there is no justification for that. I would turn them in in a heartbeat.

Posted by Dominic Espinosa (Member # 2122) on 12-29-2008, 12:26 PM:

quote: Monte L Fullmer
How about if a theatre, that is first run, has a special "reduced price" day to help bolster his business due to these recent hard times?

Ky was on the money with his response; if your ticket per-cap is say $6.50 and your general is $10 a $7 student night discount or something like that won't make a difference.

It's all about the MLA.

Me? I'd rather never discount opening weekend. If your numbers are lagging on opening weekend but your prices in general are competitive it's time to find a gimmick. Preferably one that won't get you turned into the studios...

I'm with the rest of them, I say, turn their a$$es in!

EDIT: There is a big difference between being competitive (competition is fun, brings out a good side I think) and trying to cheat your way through (no satisfaction!)
Being fair is a necessity.
If nobody had the gumption to chin check the majors we'd still be playing day-and-date.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 12-29-2008, 01:10 PM:

We're talking more than "rules" here. We're talking "contract", and a violation of same is serious stuff. Rules might be made to be broken, but contracts are not.

I agree. Turn them in.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 12-29-2008, 02:14 PM:

Sour grapes my butt....even if my competition is getting a break that I am being denied by a distrib, I will scream bloody murder. If he's breaking the law and huring me, I damn well will report him. Regarless of the moral issues, under-reporting or hiding grosses is criminal theft and should be exposed wherever it rears its ugly head. In the end, one theatre doing that hurts all theatres who are honest.

And how does a DI get to play a picture before anyone else? Haven't we been discussing here the problem with the distribs sending prints only hours before opening date? Were does this DI get prints before anyone else that he can advertise and open it even for one day ahead of time?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-29-2008, 04:06 PM:

We got our Marley print on Tuesday the 23rd. I think this DI operator is just going on the fly: Print comes in, he schedules a quickie show, sends out the newsletter to his mailing list and cashes in.

Posted by Lyle Romer (Member # 1266) on 12-30-2008, 12:26 PM:

If I knew a competitor was breaking rules like that, I'd have to turn them in. It creates very unfair competition. How can I compete if I'm following the rules and a competitor is having shows where his film cost is zero?

That would be like if I owned a burger stand and my competition stole their meat for 4 days a week and I paid for mine. How can I stay in business against that?

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-30-2008, 12:42 PM:

You are correct, Lyle. I have a nearby competitor who does not pay taxes; they just reform. Meanwhile, I pay my taxes. I am at a competitive disadvantage. (This has gone on for over 20 years.) Louis

Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 12-31-2008, 10:59 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
And how does a DI get to play a picture before anyone else? Haven't we been discussing here the problem with the distribs sending prints only hours before opening date?

He's probably just "inviting" people to his Wednesday and/or Thursday night staff screening.

Posted by Ron Funderburg (Member # 4561) on 01-03-2009, 12:05 AM:

The film was Disneys Bedtime Stories and he sent out an email to his customers that are on the newsletter. The email was about the early opening. Our print of this film arrived on Monday so I assume he got his at the same time!

The email was forwarded to me and it then it was again forwarded! I will let Disney do what they will; however, the grosses have now been adjusted on Rentrak for at least the Christmas days they were open. I didn't go back and check to see there was an updated amount around the Thanksgiving stuff. They are very careful not to advertise in the newspaper when they do this stuff.

I realize that I am one of the old fashioned guys that just doesn't agree with pirated versions of films, or cheating on taxes or not reporting all the income but it is good to know others agree with me on at least some of it.

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 01-03-2009, 12:50 AM:

Teaser topic title!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 01-03-2009, 01:01 AM:

Rules are meant to be broken? Yep. Sometimes I deliberately cut those tags off pillows and bed mattresses just to piss people off!