Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Movie titles/times on the doors

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Posted by Thomas Pitt (Member # 4322) on 03-07-2009, 04:03 PM:

Not sure how common (or uncommon) this is elsewhere, but there used to be many multiplexes that showed the movie title and time at the entrance to each auditorium. Often this was done by means of an LED dot matrix display above or near the door - so it could be easily updated.

These days, it seems that the displays are slowly being removed. One multiplex just had, for a long time, the displays constantly scrolling a "Welcome - No smoking - No cellphones" message with no indication as to what the movie playing was! The displays have now been completely removed.

What's the point of removing this source of information from auditorium doors? I once walked into the wrong auditorium after running to the bathroom during a movie!

Out of all the multiplexes I've been to recently, only the Bradford Cineworld still has these displays above the doors. Surely it's much easier to glance above the door to see where your movie is, than to have to keep checking the number on your ticket - particularly if you go out to buy concessions during the ad reel...

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-07-2009, 04:33 PM:

I'm no multiplex guy, but I would guess it's to deter auditorium switching and/or keeping kids from going into R-rated movies.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 03-07-2009, 07:14 PM:

I'm going to say the cheap skates are eliminating anything that costs to operate, or maintain.

Posted by Jeremy Jorgenson (Member # 2989) on 03-07-2009, 07:57 PM:

Our 10-screen theatre still uses them.

As for why some may have changed, I can buy Mike's reasoning.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-07-2009, 08:06 PM:

Also, if the auditorium doesn't display by itself what movie is in it people might actually look at their ticket for their auditorium number.

Like I'm sure everyone's had someone who goes into the wrong theater because they read the movie name on the auditorium and assumed that it was the showtime they wanted to see. And before you say "But displaying the showtime gets rid of that" I must point out that people see the movie name and ignore everything else (even when showtimes are displayed).

Posted by Caleb Johnstone-Cowan (Member # 3710) on 03-07-2009, 11:09 PM:

The films aren't on the door so people can't see which screens the 15 and 18 certificate films are in. I can see having films on the door encouraging screen jumping in some cinemas, especially when staffing levels are low.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 03-08-2009, 06:12 AM:

At least in the theatres I frequent here, they the title and starting time LED displays are still up and running....brightly. I like them.

Do they encourage screen jumping? Prossibly, but I would certainly do more than guess at that conclusion if I had to rip out equipement that I paid to have installed and which I installed presumably for a good reason. On the other side of the taking-the-signage-down-will-reduce-screen-jumping contention is the possibility that people who are intent on screen jumping are also intent on breaking the rules and are smart enough to plan it out beforehand. It's not too dificult to check the starting times either in the paper before coming to the theatre or right there at the ticket counter where all the titles, start times and theatre numbers are displayed. Should we take those down as well?

I'd investigate both contentions thoroughly. Even without investigation, my instinct tells me that taking the very convenient title displays down at the theatre's enterence is an over-reaction.

I don't run a multiplex, but if I did, I sure wouldn't rip out something I paid to install without compelling evidence for a phantom problem in order to exact an even more phantom result.

Presumably the exhibitor put in the signage for a reason, and spent a good amount of money doing so. I assume the reason was that they are an aid to customers and in general because they add to the appearance of his lobby. I don't see any counter-reasoning why he should take them down other than a hunch.

I suppose if a casual screen jumper were leaving one show and came upon a sign indicating that another film he wanted to see was starting at exactly the time he was taking his leave, yes, the theatre might wind up loosing the measely percentage they get on the ticket sale, but like every theatre manager will tell you, the percentage they loose on the ticket sale will be more than compensated for if that guy buys an extra item or two at the concessions, given he'll be sitting there for another 2 hours.

If screen jumping is a problem, it's a joint problem that affects both the distributor and the exhibitor, and the distributor to as larger a percentage as he gets from the ticket price split. Seems distribution should be contributing to the cost of removal and compensation for the signage if it really is a loss problem. Has distribution stepped up to this plate in any monetary way as of yet?

Didn't think so.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-08-2009, 11:16 AM:

quote: Frank Angel
On the other side of the taking-the-signage-down-will-reduce-screen-jumping contention is the possibility that people who are intent on screen jumping are also intent on breaking the rules and are smart enough to plan it out beforehand. It's not too dificult to check the starting times either in the paper before coming to the theatre

[Tangent] You'd think so but once these couple kids came in at like noon on a Friday, bought tickets to some PG movie then walked around the building looking for the R-rated movie they wanted to sneak into. They came up to me asking me what room it was playing in and I responded that it only played at night.

Idiots.

Though that location didn't have any digital signage. They were originally supposed to get it (you could see an outlet that was put in for it) but at the time Cineplex Odeon ran out of money. They ended up using poster cases instead (and we'd simply move the poster to whichever room the movie played in).

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-08-2009, 05:28 PM:

I'd bet that it's a maintenance cost issue. The major chains (in the US, at least) seem to like to build nice theatres and then let them fall apart due to lack of maintenance. Be glad that they removed the old units instead of allowing them to remain and malfunction.

Oh, and would someone please explain the difference between "signage" and "signs"? The former always sounds awkward to me.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-08-2009, 06:12 PM:

Like the public knows how to read. You have to force them to read signs, even then only half will comprehend. [Wink]

Certainly certain chains don't care what happens once you're past the concession stand, so why even bother with signs?

Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-08-2009, 07:57 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Oh, and would someone please explain the difference between "signage" and "signs"? The former always sounds awkward to me.

'Signage' refers to really old signs. [Wink]

Posted by Scott D. Neff (Member # 185) on 03-08-2009, 08:08 PM:

When I was with Century they started taking the titles down only at locations that had problems with screen jumping. The changed the Data Displays to read "Auditorium 1......" and so forth.

I don't think there's much cost involved in maintaining these other than the cost of replacing one should it actually break. Some locations were tied into a computer that would automatically download the times from the ticketing system, but others were done manually with the programmable keypad. I imagine if one of the computerized systems went down you could reprogram them manually. Perhaps that's why nobody does it anymore, they're too lazy to update the titles on 14-20 screens each week.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-08-2009, 09:25 PM:

Yeah, maybe the computer that runs the signs quit working so they replaced the signs with numbers on the doors rather than replacing the computer.

Posted by Phil Blake (Member # 2012) on 03-10-2009, 07:27 AM:

then as I have found out sometimes we give out too much information and this only leads to mass confusion to our er well "educated patrons"

we have a double sides display stand at front door , this always displays our weekly guide and a separate daily guide on both sides and well as a daily guide on the ticketing counter. Ofter we see people reading both sides of the board then coming to to counter to ask what is showing [Mad]

we promptly removed the end time it was a nightmare

we thought we could solve the problem of staff constantly being asked what time a film finishes , so we added to end time to the displays , this having the effect of people showing up and then end time to watch the show [Mad]

when we added an PC based movie answering line we found this caused people to access the office line and then ring up to ask the whole weeks screening times [Mad]

the more we try to assist the worse it gets.

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 03-10-2009, 09:38 AM:

We're a single screen. We have a large two-sided marquee which has the name of the only film playing on it in big letters. You have to walk under the marquee to get to the boxoffice. I cannot get through even the lowest attended weeks (and we're talking double digit attendance) without several persons coming to the boxoffice and asking "What's Playing?" grrrr [Mad]

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-10-2009, 10:05 AM:

quote: Martin McCaffery
I cannot get through even the lowest attended weeks (and we're talking double digit attendance) without several persons coming to the boxoffice and asking "What's Playing?"

Same here. We've even had people buy a ticket and THEN ask what's playing.

Or they will read our marquee with one title on it and then come in and ask if there's anything ELSE playing.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-10-2009, 10:44 AM:

I even once had someone call and say "I listened to your recording twice and it never listed times for [insert movie]."

I immediately responded with "We don't have that movie."

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-10-2009, 12:26 PM:

quote:
What's the point of removing this source of information from auditorium doors? I once walked into the wrong auditorium after running to the bathroom during a movie!

The LED variable message displays could have been removed for any number of reasons. Perhaps the theater owner wanted them installed at a newer or more busy theater. Perhaps the movie theater company sold those LED displays to another business. They may have even been in violation of some sort of local signs ordinance.

There's also the real possibility the theater just couldn't keep the messages on the signs properly updated. Most control software for these signs is simple to use. If management doesn't have time to fart with it, they're leaving the task in the hands of high turnover rate employees and likely stuck showing yet another fairly new employee how to use it. Maybe they got tired of dealing with it.

I don't think the motive of cracking down on people jumping from one auditorium to another (like kids sneaking into R-rated shows) has anything to do with removing LED entry signs.

quote: Scott Norwood
I'd bet that it's a maintenance cost issue.

Simple indoor LED displays, such as the ones installed over theater auditorium entrances, are very reliable. They're not difficult to fix as long as the company who manufactured it still has spare parts available.

Computers and software being used to program the signs are a potentially bigger problem. Many different companies have made indoor LED signs. Some companies have not kept their sign programming software up to date in regards to operating system compatibility. It's difficult to buy a new replacement computer with an old operating system installed. A theater's old LED sign system that worked fine under Windows 98 might not work properly with a PC running Windows XP or not at all under Windows Vista.

Additionally, some of this LED sign software requires an administrator rights login to function properly. Many customers want to install the sign control software on computers that are performing other tasks. Those computers may be connected to networks with restrictive user permissions and various other security measures.

A system of LED theater entrance boards can be attached via LAN or serial connections. Either system can be seriously screwed up by changes made to computers or network settings -like a theater installing some new Internet-enabled accounting software that sends earnings off to corporate every night. It's typically best to have LED signs controlled by a standalone computer with its own separate network. Unfortunately, most customers don't want to spend extra money to make things a lot easier.

quote: Scott Norwood
Oh, and would someone please explain the difference between "signage" and "signs"?

"Signage" is a more broad term that can be applied to any number or variety of signs at a given location. The term can be used in both the singular and plural sense. The term "signs" is only plural and could even be taken to be plural of just one specific kind of sign.

Posted by Chad Souder (Member # 343) on 03-10-2009, 12:41 PM:

You know, I hear LED lights have a fade rate. Perhaps all the signs faded and they didn't want to replace them... [Razz]

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-10-2009, 11:31 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
It's difficult to buy a new replacement computer with an old operating system installed. A theater's old LED sign system that worked fine under Windows 98 might not work properly with a PC running Windows XP or not at all under Windows Vista.

That would be one advantage for using an alternative like linux. Lots of older hardware that has no driver for vista works immediately with both new and old versions of various linux distros.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-11-2009, 12:39 AM:

LED-based variable message centers don't work via device drivers. They're not connected in the traditional sense as a printer, scanner or other "installed" peripheral device. The message editing, scheduling and transmission software is vital in communicating with the LED signs. If that software doesn't work under the installed OS then the LED signs won't be able to receive any new messages.

It might be possible to get some of that proprietary software to run properly under a Linux build like Ubuntu. I don't know anyone who has actually tried it. Some of these systems connect via wireless radios which adds another variable for compatibility issues.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-11-2009, 01:33 AM:

Or instead of using proprietary software, you could buy something that works with stuff that's not proprietary.

For instance, there is software out there for linux to communicate both with LEDs made by both pro-lite and betabrite devices. So you could use the existing software or if it doesn't do what you want, use it as a starting point for writing your own custom app.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-11-2009, 11:41 AM:

That's easier said than done. LED-based message centers are very proprietary by nature. Various models even from the same manufacturer often differ in hardware components, software and communications.

Adaptive Micro Systems makes the Betabrite LED signs sold in certain retail stores. Betabrite units use different (and more simple) software than Adaptive's more expensive indoor signs. And then there's numerous differences in the larger outdoor models. The company has at least four different software packages geared only for specific models in their LED sign product line. None of it works across their entire range of products due to differences in controller boards, radios, serial or Ethernet connection, etc.

The companies that manufacture LED signs almost always develop their software to run on Windows. They're gearing it for what end users (the customers) will most likely have in their business, and that just translates to Windows. They've made hardly any effort to support the Mac OS must less Linux. Even Daktronics, who manufactures most of the giant LED displays seen in pro sports stadiums, only codes its software for Windows. Their biggest signs normally include a sign control computing system like the Venus 7000 as part of the package.

This isn't exactly a great situation. The slow transition from 32-bit to 64-bit based operating systems in new computers is going to create a lot of headaches in keeping many LED signs that have already been in service for numerous years operational.

The companies manufacturing these devices will need to update their software to work with new operating systems in order to keep existing LED signs running. Otherwise they'll risk angering a lot of customers. The good thing is that part of the sign business is increasingly competitive and open to change.

I'd like to see a lot of this LED sign software able to run on "net books" or even smart phones like the iPhone or Blackberry.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 03-11-2009, 01:04 PM:

Again, you don't have to use those manufacturers. For instance, one of the companies I mentioned (pro-lite) publishes their communication protocol for quite a lot of their models, thereby making it easier for you to write your own app.

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-11-2009, 04:38 PM:

The choice of manufacturer is pretty important. LED display companies and the quality of their products is far from being equal. Daktronics, Time-O-Matic and Adaptive are among those with the best reputations. A lot of companies are selling less expensive products that are also far less reliable.

It's not exactly simple to sit down and code your own message center application either, especially if you don't write computer software in the first place. Current LED message center software is getting pretty complex.

The best thing guys like me can do is keep working directly with engineers at those companies, forwarding the concerns of customers (as well as my own) along. New versions of Windows and what they will do to the software is a major concern.

Posted by Jesse Skeen (Member # 586) on 03-11-2009, 06:07 PM:

My 2 cents- signs with too much info DOES encourage screen jumping- a few times I've been on my way out, saw that something else was starting in a couple minutes on another screen (didn't even check the title!), saw nobody was watching and went in and enjoyed a second movie. There's always been something wrong with the presentation of the film I paid for so I figured they owed me another movie anyways. Not having the times so prominently displayed would have prevented me from doing this. At the very least if you have a certain movie only on one screen, it doesn't need its showtime right above the door.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-11-2009, 09:47 PM:

Bobby--how does the LED sign control software work? Does the computer upload a full program that tells the sign what to display and then disconnect, or is a constant real-time connection to the computer needed for the sign to work? What I'm getting at is, does the sign stop working if the computer crashes or drops off the network, or does it just become in capable of receiving updates?

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-12-2009, 10:12 AM:

You could have signs, signage or whatever you want to call it made of 10 foot high neon and and I swear some people wouldn't know where to go.

One of the theaters I work at is a "TWIN", with only two auditoriums located at right angles to each other but both of whose doors open into a common, small foyer area at the top of a staircase and are in plain sight of each other.

I'm hired as THE 'projetionist', so technically I'm not part of the floor staff- - but that doesn't mean I don't pitch in and help a patron or fellow co-worker when needed.

I can't tell you how many people make it to the top of the stairs or come out of the elevator looking totally LOST.

They spot me, perhaps running from booth-to-booth to get the show ready (I'm wearing a badge which identifies me as an employee) and stop me to ask:

"Which Auditorium is (Insert Movie Title Here) playing in?" even though the auditorum number is THE LARGEST FRIGGIN THING PRINTED ON THEIR TICKET STUB!!

I'll patiently tell them "Oh, that movie is playing in theater #2". So then they'll look up and see they are standing in front of a door marked "Theater 1" and ask me where 'Theater 2' is.

EVEN THOUGH THE THEATER 2 DOOR IS LESS THAN 10ft AWAY IN PLAIN SIGHT AND CLEARLY NUMBERED!!! Geezusgivemabreak!

My favorite incident happened a few weeks ago when a young couple had somehow not only misplaced both their ticket stubs but totally forgot the name of the movie they were coming to see by the time they reached the 2nd floor.
(maybe it's the atltitude)

I could see they looked "lost" and I asked if I could help.
But neither of them could remember the title of the movie they'd just bought a ticket to less than 5min ago or what auditorium the cashier told them to go to.

Trying to help, I prompted them with the names of the two films we were playing:

"Benjaman Button?" I asked;

- Silence -

"Revoloutionary Road?" I counter-offered.

- and they were still speechless -

FINIALLY,in desparation I said:
"Brad Pitt or Leonardo DiCaprio?

THAT did the trick!

I should note that this couple was neither very young or very
old and did not appear to be under the influence of anything; they were just CLUE-LESS!!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-12-2009, 12:56 PM:

quote: Scott Norwood
Bobby--how does the LED sign control software work? Does the computer upload a full program that tells the sign what to display and then disconnect, or is a constant real-time connection to the computer needed for the sign to work?

Most modern LED-based signs do the former. The computer connects to the sign through a variety of methods, uploads the data (which includes the actual sign messages along with play list and scheduling data) and then disconnects. The LED sign just keeps playing whatever messages are scheduled regardless if the computer that created that data is still connected or even turned on at all. The programs that create the actual sign messages are getting pretty complex. Adaptive's newest software is a 90MB install.

Some variable message signs operate in a "slave" relationship to a "master" control computer -basically a PC. Shut down the sign software or turn off the computer and the sign stops working.

Some of the older electronic variable message signs that used incandescent lamps or fluorescent flip discs had such a master/slave arrangement while others had a full blown slave PC integrated into the sign cabinet so the master computer wouldn't have to be connected all the time. Advances in technology have made modern LED-based signs much more streamlined.

Still, certain "spectacular" level displays from giant sized video boards in sports stadiums to massive displays like the Fremont Street Experience in Las Vegas must be slaved to one or more master computers due to the scale of imagery being played. LED-based signs don't have a tremendous amount of on board memory. That's not a big deal if the sign is a mere 7 pixel by 128 pixel "Big Dot" display to install on a wall or above a door. When the sign has enough RGB LED clusters to equal or surpass the pixel count of 1080 HDTV then some serious computing and networking power will be required whenever the sign is turned on.

Posted by Jim Cassedy (Member # 4115) on 03-12-2009, 07:23 PM:

quote: Bobby Henderson
massive displays like the Fremont Street Experience in Las Vegas

I get to go to Vegas several times a year and
the Freemont Street 'show' always amazes me.

I'd love to see the "booth" for that set up!

Posted by Bobby Henderson (Member # 840) on 03-12-2009, 11:01 PM:

I'll have to dig for the issue of Signs of the Times that had a feature about the $17 million retrofit of the Fremont Street Experience.

The original setup featured old fashioned colored incandescent lamps. The retrofit changed everything out to a display of over 12 million LEDs controlled by over 30 computers. The setup is extremely ambitious, even by football stadium standards. Extra computing horsepower is required for the man on the street live camera feeds that shoot live video up onto the arched screen. The system has extra lighting effects (strobe lights, colored lights, etc.) as well as a 500,000 watt sound system.