Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Experiences with reusable 3d glasses

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Posted by Peter Castle (Member # 1997) on 10-04-2009, 10:31 PM:

I'd be interested in hearing from those using Dolby3D or XPand about the logistics of distributing, retrieving and cleaning reusable 3D glasses. Also any experience of damage rates or loss rates.

Do you have just enough glasses for a full house or do you have more than enough?

Posted by Jeremy Weigel (Member # 4208) on 10-05-2009, 04:47 PM:

I was thinking about this last night as I was cleaning after Toy Story and saw all the knocked out lenses for the RealD glasses. Little kids must be damaging the Dolby and Xpand glasses as well.

Posted by Todd Leach (Member # 883) on 10-05-2009, 07:44 PM:

We have had the Dolby 3D glasses for a year now and have 2 pairs per seat. The glasses are built pretty well, we have had lenses pop out, but they pop back in, arms do the same. I don't think we have lost a pair due to breakage. We have lost a few due to theft, only 4 so far. The key to getting them back is to tell people they need to be returned when you give them out and make sure your staff collects them after the show. We wash them in a commercial low temp dishwasher, let them dry and inspect and wipe off water spots. We use rough totes to collect and store the glasses. We did build a rack to store the glasses and hand them out and it works great for busy times, but if it is slow dust collects on the lenses very fast and they need to be wiped again. Dealing with the glasses does take extra staff time with busy movies.

Posted by David Stambaugh (Member # 1102) on 12-28-2009, 08:17 PM:

quote: Todd Leach
We wash them in a commercial low temp dishwasher, let them dry and inspect and wipe off water spots.

I just talked to someone who saw Avatar in Dolby 3D at the WME (White Mountain) Show Low 5 in Show Low, Arizona. He says his glasses were very water-spotted, so bad he had to clean them himself the best he could to get rid of the spots. That seems less than optimal for the customer.

Posted by Phil Ranucci (Member # 3820) on 12-28-2009, 10:37 PM:

When we installed our dishwasher we needed a booster heater to get up to 140 degrees, added filters and still need to use a microfiber cloth on every pair to get the spots off. Lots of effort and then you need to deal with the theft problems.
Dolby's glasses hold up well, but it is extra work for your staff.

Posted by Stephen Furley (Member # 1277) on 12-29-2009, 07:36 AM:

Some years ago, when the National Film Theatre used to run 3-D seasons every few years they used to collect in, and re-use, the disposable cardboard ones. They were often covered in fingerprints when given out.

How much do re-usable glasses cost? I'm talking about polarised and Dolby types, not the LC shutter type (are they still used in theatres anywhere? The short-lived Pepsi London Imax was the only place I've ever seen them.

I can answer my own question; I've just found one supplier who sells 'Theme park' type linear at $1.39 each for 600, and circular at $6 each for 150. 'Aviation' types are considerably more expensive. I have no idea on the price of the Dolby ones, but at least as far as the polaroid type are concerned, they're not that expensive. Why not sell them rather than lending them out. Each person could then have their own glasses, which they could use whenever they went to see a 3-D film, and they would be responsible for keeping them clean. The theatre could make a small profit on the sale of them, I'm sure they could get them even cheaper than the prices I found in the quantities they would be buying, and they would avoid the costs in collecting and cleaning them, and replacing damaged or stolen ones. The customer only has to pay a relatively small amount for a re-usable item, and knows they will always be clean if they keep them that way. If they don't, then it's their fault.

One problem of course would be the multiple different systems in use in different venues; I'm not sure what the answer is to that one.

Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 12-29-2009, 01:13 PM:

Cardboard polarized 3-D glasses "retail" (are sold to "whoever wants to buy them") for about $0.35 in small qtys. Obviously much less for very large quantities or if you manufacture or order a large run made yourself. Circulars only really add about 1 cent extra per pair compared to linear, but until recently they were more "rare" so there are less "already made" ones and thus it's harder to find the good suppliers.

"Reusable" polarized glasses (plastic), like RealD's or "theme park style", also *RETAIL* for around $1 for small qtys. All the way down to mere cents if you order or manufacture a large qty yourself.

Dolby's (Infitec filters, reusable, anti-theft equipped) RETAIL (are sold to cinemas through dealers) for about $28. Sometimes Dolby has had "sales" where they were priced 50% off.

XpanD's (active, LC Shutter, reusable, anti-theft equpped, battery included) RETAIL for about $50.

The only feasible option for a theater to increase their take at the box office for 3D films would be to charge a small amount for the "3D surcharge" in the ticket (the distributors won't allow you one way or another to not charge it), say $2, and then SELL a separate pair of 3D glasses (i.e. issue a separate receipt at the BO, like $1 for a plastic polarized). If your cost was $0.50, you would be getting a $0.50 BENEFIT from the sale that you keep 100% yourself.

Of course, being a separate sale, also means that the customer can refuse to buy the glasses and use their own supplied pair and just purchase the ticket (with the say $2 surcharge added).

To use this business model, you would have to equip the theatre with either a Master Image system or a dual-projection setup (like digital Imax). Not sure how Sony's licensing of their 3D lens with RealD affects the purchase of glasses, but if you can buy-to-own the lense, I don't see how they can force you to use their glasses or not sell them separately.

I don't think you'll be able to charge separately to "rent" a pair of Dolby glasses or XpanD's, or sell many of those at over $28/$50 cost for profit.

RealD's or Imax's agreements pbbly prohibits you from selling glasses separately somehow.

Posted by Elise Brandt (Member # 5552) on 12-30-2009, 06:09 AM:

We use Xpand glasses with very few problems. In the beginning we cleaned the glasses individually by hand, but as you know that was found to be... troublesome. So switched to a machine, drying is still done by hand but is much quicker, somehow we have managed not to leave noticeable water spots (yet).

We hand the glasses out at the door only just when the movie is about to start to minimize the time available for little hands to explore and leave marks, and have the staff instruct people on how to deal with the glasses. After the show the glasses are retrieved as the people leave the auditorium, right at the door, and counted as they go. So far none have been stolen (since April 2009 when the first 3D equipment was installed), only a handful broken, but the battery changes have been constant.

On quantity, we have just about two and a half pairs per seat. So far, even with Avatar, that has been more than enough.

Posted by Brian Guckian (Member # 1678) on 01-04-2010, 12:52 PM:

quote: Stephen Furley
I have no idea on the price of the Dolby ones, but at least as far as the polaroid type are concerned, they're not that expensive. Why not sell them rather than lending them out. Each person could then have their own glasses, which they could use whenever they went to see a 3-D film, and they would be responsible for keeping them clean. The theatre could make a small profit on the sale of them, I'm sure they could get them even cheaper than the prices I found in the quantities they would be buying, and they would avoid the costs in collecting and cleaning them, and replacing damaged or stolen ones. The customer only has to pay a relatively small amount for a re-usable item, and knows they will always be clean if they keep them that way. If they don't, then it's their fault.

One problem of course would be the multiple different systems in use in different venues; I'm not sure what the answer is to that one.

Agree completely with all of this and was thinking the very same after seeing Avatar in 3-D (Real D).

There should be clear advertising / identification of which 3-D system is being used in which theatre / cinema and then the patron can bring the appropriate glasses.

Even in a region where all current 3-D systems are in use there would be no necessity to have a full complement of glasses (obvioulsy impractical anyway), given that people usually have a favourite theatre, with at least a second choice available.

Thus, at most, one should only ever need two sets of glasses. Even where one set is considerably more expensive, this could be written off as a once-off investment.

Certainly, it would seem to make sense that Dolby should offer their glasses for direct sale to the patron at the box office as an alternative option to in-house re-use by the cinema.

Posted by Julio Roberto (Member # 4976) on 01-04-2010, 01:23 PM:

It would be wise for Dolby and XpanD to run a small manufacturing batch to make some glasses of a different color and save the money on the anti-theft chip to be sold retail packaged at theaters to germofobics and the like.

Some people (very few, but some) would prefer to own their own pair, take care of their own cleaning/battery replacements and not have to deal with the handling at the auditorium.

Unfortunately, they would probably also demand a discount on the ticket for not having to supply a pair for them ...

Funny how Master Image now also offers a RealD compatible "reusable" model (more similar looking to Dolby's) besides their "disposable" one (more similar to RealD's) ...

Posted by Tony Ratcliff (Member # 1196) on 01-07-2010, 04:23 PM:

We show "House of Wax" in 3-D (film version) every other year.
We sell the paper glasses for $1 separately from the ticket.

There are defintely people who own their own glasses and bring them with them. I bought myself a $10 pair that I use for myself.

I think a LOT of people would want to buy their own glasses.
One year we offered nice plastic glasses for $5 and sold quite a few.

I know that with the paper ones, the kids take them to school the next day and show them off.
How much "cooler" would a nice plastic pair of glasses be.

My thinking is that digital 3-D is already being billed as an extra-ordinary experience, and since people are willing to pay the up-charge, I think they would easily pay a couple bucks for the plastic glasses.

I also wonder - for people in towns where one theatre uses paper and the other theatre uses plastic, how to people feel about paying the same upcharge, but don't get to keep the glasses at the plastic-glasses theatre?

Posted by Pietro Clarici (Member # 4937) on 01-09-2010, 07:39 AM:

quote: Julio Roberto
(...) Not sure how Sony's licensing of their 3D lens with RealD affects the purchase of glasses, but if you can buy-to-own the lense, I don't see how they can force you to use their glasses or not sell them separately (...)

You can't buy the Sony XLS lens, it's licenced by Real D just like the Z-Screen or the XL. The same royalties apply.

quote: Julio Roberto
(...) It would be wise for Dolby and XpanD to run a small manufacturing batch to make some glasses of a different color and save the money on the anti-theft chip to be sold retail packaged at theaters to germofobics and the like (...)

As a XpanD customer, I agree. And it looks like it's going to happen: http://www.xpandcinema.com/products/glasses/media/xpandX103-home.pdf . I know they're called "Home", but the published specs say they're compatible with "XpanD Cinema IR, CE IR, VESA, USB".
And, they'll be available in a bunch of different colors... I look forward to selling them in my theatres, I already had customers asking to buy a personal pair.

Our surcharge - which we are forbidden to bill separatedly from the ticket price here - won't likely change, though.
Admission will be the same, whether you come in with your own glasses or get them from us.

quote: Tony Ratcliff
(...) I also wonder - for people in towns where one theatre uses paper and the other theatre uses plastic, how to people feel about paying the same upcharge, but don't get to keep the glasses at the plastic-glasses theatre? (...)

We usually explain that the surcharge cover costs for new digital projectors (they aren't subsized by distribution here, at least not yet) and more powerful lamps, and that we "rent" active glasses for free just like our competitor does when he gives away Real D glasses for free, so there's no actual difference. So far, they seem to get it.