This is topic Debating on buying Drive-In in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.
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Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 12-14-2009, 10:23 PM:
Could anyone on here tell me if buying a drive-in would be a good investment these days? We have a local drive-in theater located between two good size towns that had just gone up for sale. It was still in operation at the end of the season and now the owners want to sell it. The current owners have had it for only about five years or so. We use to patronize the place until it started going downhill in the up keep.
The price seems to be right (150,000) for the 10 acres along with the equipment. It is a turnkey operation.
One of the reasons I ask is I was surprised that they had it for sale. Just earlier this year we had asked them if they were interested in selling and they weren't. Now that they are I was wondering if they is anything out there coming down the pipeline that would effect the operation of a drive-in. Are films still going to be available for a while or would we have to invest in converting over to digital right away?
Thanks!
Posted by Paul J. Neuhaus (Member # 3205) on 12-14-2009, 10:29 PM:
getting away from the operational stage for a moment.... This could be a good investment opportunity just for the land itself. If it is on the outside of town like most drive-ins start out at it could eventualy be worth allot if the town expands. I know that has been the demise of several drive-ins. The town expands and then somebody is offering the owner way more then they ever thoght their place was worth so that a mini mall could go in.
I'm not trying to be evil here but from an investment standpoint it could be good in many fashions not just as a buisiness but as a future sale.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-14-2009, 10:50 PM:
Get a booker to pull the grosses for you from that theatre and see what kind of money it makes. $150,000.00 for just the 10 acres by itself is a pretty good deal in some places.
If it's a turn-key kind of operation, and you've got the time, patience, and money to spend.. go for it.
I spent close to $700k on my drive-in, but I started from nothing.
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 12-15-2009, 01:23 AM:
quote: Steve Greeno
We use to patronize the place until it started going downhill in the up keep.
Given this statement, if you say it's a turnkey operation, how much will you have to invest to bring it up to "good" upkeep?
Posted by Cameron Glendinning (Member # 3516) on 12-15-2009, 01:59 AM:
How many screens does the Drive in feature? Would it be possible to expand and add more? The more choice thats offered the more appeal for people to attend, its easier to secure new product and work around the studios contracts.
Posted by Ed Alvarado (Member # 2760) on 12-15-2009, 11:16 AM:
wow dude i hope you do get the drive in up and running
Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 12-15-2009, 01:43 PM:
Additional screens is not necessarily the answer for success. I would encourage you to go for it and model it after the glory days of drive-ins complete with a playground for the kids and films for the family. Drive-ins suffered when many became exploitation (or sexploitation) theatres. But today they are being built again. Make certain you have the best possible presentation available.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-15-2009, 02:05 PM:
Why is it for sale?
How is the competition (both DI and indoor)? Is there any other out-of-home entertainment available in the area? Would you be able to get first-run films (even if that is not your intended booking policy, you should look into it)? Are there zoning or environmental restrictions that would prevent adding additional screens in the future? Are there nearby businesses with lighted parking lots that would wash out the screen image? Do you have any restaurant experience, or know someone who does? How are the property and sales taxes in your area?
As for maintenance--does the place at least look decent and meet code? Or can it be made so at little expense?
What are the newspaper (or other) advertising rates in that area? Is it within driving distance of the nearest DFS depot? If not, what will it cost to have films picked up and delivered (this can vary by location, at least with DFS). Is the projection and concession equipment in good shape, or can it be made so easily?
If you want an "investment" that would pay a reasonable return with a reasonable risk, you could probably do better elsewhere. On the other hand, this might be a fun business (especially if you have some other source of income and could run the DI as a hobby), and the land might be worth something in the future.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-15-2009, 02:19 PM:
quote: Robert E. Allen
Additional screens is not necessarily the answer for success.
While that is true, you need to check out that it is possible. Down the track you may find it a viable option and two screens are always better than one. More flexibility with programming...more choice for your patrons...more chance of not having a 'dud' week stuck with a turkey on a single screen.
Like the others said $150k for that land alone is a fair price.
Posted by Todd McCracken (Member # 4718) on 12-15-2009, 03:33 PM:
Light pollution seems to have been the demise of all the close to Los Angeles drive ins (Inside LA it was property values). I would definitely insure that there are no pending building projects in the immediate vicinity, as that may well be the reason the owner is selling.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-15-2009, 03:41 PM:
I started out with one screen in 2003, and added my second screen in the fall of 2005. Our first full operating season with 2 screens saw an increase of 40% compared to the year previous.
Having more than one screen also gives you the ability to hold on to films longer if they are performing well, and it also makes booking a whole lot easier. Since the studios seem to release all of the summer blockbusters in the month of May, with 2 screens you can play almost all of them instead of only one or two.
We tend to play "family friendly" films on one side, while playing to the college crowd and adults on the other side.
Posted by Bruce Hansen (Member # 281) on 12-15-2009, 05:13 PM:
Check everything above, and if you still want it, make them an offer; maybe $120,000.
Posted by Mitchell Dvoskin (Member # 751) on 12-15-2009, 05:25 PM:
> We use to patronize the place until it started going downhill in the up keep.
That could be a warning sign that they were losing money. The other is they are selling for essentially the value of the land.
As others have stated above, you need to see the grosses for the last year or so, and you need to see ongoing expenses, and take into account any additional expenses need to bring it up to code and/or make it look nice. If the theatre is losing money, then you need to ask yourself, What Can I Do Better Than The Previous Owner To Boost Profits?. Then do a little research to see if your ideas will work.
PS. Make sure you are buying the land, buildings, equipment for your $150K. If it turns out they are just selling the business, it is not a good deal at that price. Also remember that in Indiana, you are going to be closed from mid-September though Mid April.
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 12-15-2009, 09:02 PM:
I got the figures from the real estate agent yesterday. For the summer of 2009 this place had a total gross income of 111,000. plus. 58,000 paid out for films, booking fees and they had also included concession supplies. Then various other expenses like property taxes, utilities, payroll, etc. After all that the bottom net was at around $28,000.
This place was always hopping but it did better in my opinion when the previous owners had it. They had (and still do but needs some work) a playground, volleyball court, horseshoes, sandbox and other misc activities. It still has a 1955 Chevy as part of their sign that was once brilliant in color and attractive but now all faded and neglected. The current owners have a issue with keeping the place looking nice. Overgrown grass, brush, fence falling down and so on. However, from what I remember, they always had first run movies. I was always impressed with what they had showing.
They (the current owners) use to own the theater in our town then they walked away from it. The theater then was demolished. So, about 10 miles to the south of the place is a town that does have a 7 screen cinema. The town 10 miles to the north has nothing.
I was just wanting to know if independent owners are being forced to change over to digital or is film still going to be around for a few more years. It would be nice to change it over to digital but it would take a few years for us to be able to do this.
Here is a photo of the front back about 8 years ago.
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 12-15-2009, 09:06 PM:
Indiana went on "double savings time" (Central to Eastern, then daylight for the first time) means that drive ins start 2 hours later than before.
This, coupled with old equipment, poorly maintained (Motiograph) means that a real effort is going to be needed to be on screen early enough to attract a Summer audience.
I can't imagine the condition of the screen by now.
As for digital, light output is not its strong point. Film, at least in drive ins, is unchallenged as far as start times are concerned. Louis
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 12-15-2009, 09:11 PM:
Yes, it gets dark around 9:30 in the summer. The screen will need painted but still in good condition. A friend of mine owns a restoration company and has several lifts so I know I could get the screen done fairly reasonable. Most of what is visible needs plain old elbow grease. We have yet to meet with the owners and check out the equipment. Hope to do this soon.
Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 12-15-2009, 11:49 PM:
The numbers aren't terrible. At least the place makes a profit right now. Obviously, the new owner will be spending more on maintenance, unless he just wants to run the place into the ground and then sell the land. It would be interesting to see the numbers from the previous few years.
Unless something has changed recently, or is likely to change, it might be worth considering.
As for ![[dlp]](graemlins/dlp.gif)
, no distributor has, as far as I know, threatened to stop making film prints available. Presumably, this will happen at some point, but it's many years away. As long as there is nothing about that location that would physically prevent installing a projector (such as not having 3-phase power or the ability to install it), I wouldn't worry about it. The equipment is only going to get better and cheaper over time, and the economics might actually work out in the future (they don't now).
Good luck!
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 12-16-2009, 09:37 AM:
quote: Scott Norwood
As for , no distributor has, as far as I know, threatened to stop making film prints available
We haven't seen a "no 35mm prints made" scenerio yet, but have faced a couple of "no 35mm prints available for you" situations. Mostly this past fall when "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" came out. Seems most of the big indoors were playing it on their 3D screen for the first couple of weeks, then when the next big 3D thing came in, "Cloudy" got bumped to one of their 35mm screens and all of the available 35mm prints went to the indoors who were holding it over in 2D. By the time we got it (4 weeks after the break) it was basically "played out" and our weather had already turned cold. If we could have gotten a print of it on the break when the weather was 70+ degrees in the evenings it had the potential to be huge, instead it was just another cartoon that everyone had already seen.
I do think as the digital 3D installations grow in numbers, we will eventually see a "Digital 3D ONLY" film release - if the consumers will continue to put up with the "premium add-on's" on ticket prices for 3D.
Posted by Paul J. Neuhaus (Member # 3205) on 12-16-2009, 11:54 AM:
quote: Todd McCracken
Light pollution seems to have been the demise of all the close to Los Angeles drive ins
I have seen this a couple of times especially if there are car dealerships nearby that just drown out the film on screen. ![[Mad]](mad.gif)
Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 12-16-2009, 04:36 PM:
Hey Steve:
If you go ahead with this project and need a manager or assistant contact me.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 01-14-2010, 08:57 AM:
What ever happened here? Do you go for it? Still for sale? Just curious.
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 01-16-2010, 11:56 PM:
Haven't moved on the Drive-in as of yet. The realtor has this Drive-in listed as commercial property for sale on their website. No mention of it being a Drive-in.
We have been waiting for a break in the weather to get out there and check the place out. Hopefully here soon we will be meeting with the owners. Still keeping in contact with the realtor.
Will post on here first thing when we get to see the place.
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-17-2010, 07:35 AM:
Steve; drive ins in Indiana were hurt badly by advancing the time (in the Summer) by 2 hours.
Many contained old equipment that produced a dark picture. Theatres closed rather than fix the problem.
We (in Kentucky) went through this back in about 1962; those who put in "maximum power" continued, others did not.
The issue is start time; when is "too late?" Louis
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-17-2010, 10:07 AM:
The Spud Drive in located in Victor Idaho was just purchased for in excess fo 400K. Rumor has it they are going to switch to digital. Must be someones pet project.
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-17-2010, 12:45 PM:
quote: Mark Gulbrandsen
The Spud Drive in located in Victor Idaho was just purchased for in excess fo 400K. Rumor has it they are going to switch to digital.
If they do, a lot of other drive-in owners will be watching. As far as I know, no drive-in has done this yet. Several years ago, NEC demonstrated their equipment at the Transit Drive-In (Lockport, NY). It looked better than many expected, though it took a lot of effort by the local techs to get/keep it there.
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Many contained old equipment that produced a dark picture.
A few of them only have single phase power. A couple have had decent results, tying a couple of Super Lume-X supplies together. Others figured out right away that you could get 4K service out of the 7K Strong switchers.
But you're right about some drive-ins being underpowered. It amazes me how many are running fairly large screens on super Lume-X lamphouses & see nothing wrong with it.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 01-18-2010, 10:31 AM:
quote: Jack Ondracek
Several years ago, NEC demonstrated their equipment at the Transit Drive-In (Lockport, NY). It looked better than many expected, though it took a lot of effort by the local techs to get/keep it there.
We had a guy several years ago propose to his girlfriend via video projector on the drive-in screen. He was a student at Watkins Film school in Nashville, and brought with him a small conference room sized video projector. Ended up running a 150 foot extension cord from the ticket booth to his car on the second row. He put the video projector on the roof of his car and it actually looked pretty decent. Not cinema quality, but it was a pretty good picture.
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-18-2010, 01:55 PM:
Yah, pretty amazing. Wish I could have seen that.
The Tower Drive-In (Rule, TX) did some video gaming on their screen for awhile.
There's a former drive-in that's been turned into a trailer park... ummm... "mobil home community". They left the screen up and now are running DVDs on one of those business projectors once a week for the residents. It's probably about what you described (projector on top of car), but there's no other drive-in around, so the locals are pretty enthusiastic about it.
Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 01-18-2010, 02:48 PM:
It seems that the ability of digital to produce good light levels has grown leaps and bounds in a very short time and that nemisis of it not being able to match film on larger screens is quickly becoming a thing of the past. Brad posted lumen outputs from a digital projector that were staggering (I searched but couldn't find that thread). I can't image at those levels, even a 100ft DI screen wouldn't light up just fine.
We are using two R6+ Barcos (stacked) and I am getting an image with them on a 55ft screen that is as bright as film with a 4.5KW Orc (albeit nastily efficient as it is). And those Barcos came on the market in 2005 -- that's a long time as far as tech advances go. I bet if a Drive-In asked the manufacturers to do another demo like NEC did a few years back, they could do that quite easily lighting up an 80 to 100ft DI screen.
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 01-18-2010, 06:15 PM:
Check with the tech at the Transit; ran a 6k bulb at almost 8k to "meet the 35mm." Louis
Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 01-19-2010, 09:05 AM:
If that was for sale around here I would jump at the chance at a drive in for $150,000. The other indoor operators around here seem to want large amounts of money for poorly performing theatres.
Example: $300k for a theatre that doesn't see 10k patrons a year. And the property is not valuable.
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-19-2010, 10:44 AM:
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Check with the tech at the Transit; ran a 6k bulb at almost 8k to "meet the 35mm." Louis
Yah... that's kind of where I was trying to go with that, Louis... though you said it better!
Don't know if they had a lower model of machine (I thought it was their biggest at the time), or if they didn't bring a 7kW bulb with them. In any case, it took balls to do that.
I'd have to go back into my notes to recall what fL results they got from that move. It was pretty good though. They got uniform results across the entire screen. The 35mm machine had been severely hotspotted to get the same numbers just in the center.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 01-19-2010, 11:57 AM:
The screen at the Spud is smallish so if it were kept well maintained digital should be no problem with a 6kw lamp. I don't remember if the spud has three phase or not... The property value is what it is because of it's close location to Jackson Hole, WY.
Mark
Posted by Paul Geissinger (Member # 5475) on 01-19-2010, 01:12 PM:
I have to agree with all of the above.
It is a very tough decission to invest money in anything today.
Let me add my 2 cents.
From over 40 years experience...
Your statement concerning that you used to go there until... leads me to think there are issues to be dealt with and how many other customers felt the same way.
You obviously have an immediate image to clean up.
I can tell you that upon buying my Drive-In I made no profit from an established and successful operation, for 20 years. Everything went into paying for and bringing up to my standards a reasonable presentation both on and off the screen. Yes, now we are making money.
10 acres is a reasonable lot size for this endeavor. Be sure of the surrounding issues mentioned above and check for any ghosts that are liable to pop up.
Best of luck and success.
Paul Geissinger
Managing Member
Shankweiler's
-America's Oldest-
Drive-In Theatre
President
United Drive-In Theatre Owners Association
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-19-2010, 01:57 PM:
Welcome to Film-Tech, Paul. ![[thumbsup]](graemlins/thumbsup.gif)
Posted by Robert Madara (Member # 3981) on 01-19-2010, 03:17 PM:
Glad to see you on here, Paul. I look forward to talking to you about drive-ins again!
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-19-2010, 05:52 PM:
Hey, Paul,
glad to see you here.
Jack
Posted by Philip Wittlief (Member # 1724) on 01-22-2010, 08:26 AM:
quote: Louis Bornwasser
Indiana went on "double savings time" (Central to Eastern, then daylight for the first time) means that drive ins start 2 hours later than before.
The majority of Indiana was already on Eastern, the change was just to using daylight savings.
Posted by Marty Carr (Member # 5267) on 01-22-2010, 05:16 PM:
I have seviced this drive inn booth and it could use an upgrade in booth equipment.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-22-2010, 05:54 PM:
That's not too much of an issue.
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 01-22-2010, 09:55 PM:
We have an appointment tomorrow (Saturday Jan 23) to meet with the owners and realtor. I have a list of questions to ask them along with some gathered here on Film Tech. Everyone's input is very much appreciated. I hope things will work out for the better but it all depends on what it looks like on the inside.
I was out there last week and took some photos of the grounds. It has been neglected as far as up keep. Most of which is just painting, cutting down overgrowth, etc. I am anxious to see what the booth and concession look like. I will be sure to get back on here with an update.
It has been 20 years since I have been in the business (my last movie was "Ghost") but I still have it in my blood and a real desire to do it again. I have a full time job so I don't have to worry about making a living off of it.
Posted by Marty Carr (Member # 5267) on 01-22-2010, 10:24 PM:
A lot of tlc, a good plan for business and with all the 35mm equipment that is available will improve the drive inn greatly.
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 01-25-2010, 10:33 PM:
Here is an update on the drive-in venture. We took a look at the place over the weekend and I was disappointed but yet optimistic. The place appeared to me to be in worse condition than what I expected. It appears that no money had been put back into this place since it was purchased by the current owners. Although they may have, it just appears that nothing had been done on the upkeep. It does need a lot of paint which is no big deal. However, my concerns are with the leaky roof in the booth and evidence of a leak in the concession stand. When we went into the booth I saw water on the floor and some drips coming from the ceiling. Everything was covered by a few tarps which I realize they had to winterize the place. However, another person I know that checked the place out back when it first went up for sale in December told me that when they looked at the booth there was ice on top of the tarp covering the platter. What worries me is I do not know what kind of water damage there is above the ceiling. We had just bought an old building a few years ago for our current business that was built in the 1880s and it had a few leaks also. When we checked out the attic we found some very big problems with rotted wood.
The projectors were old and a little rusty but I had been told this is not unusual since the booth isn't heated in the winter. One of the rectifiers in one of the projectors is bad. The speaker system does not work. They said they believe that there is a short in an underground wire or it is in the amp. They decided to just run the FM broadcast and not try to find the problem. The concession stand didn't look too bad on the inside. There wasn't any obvious water damage anywhere but you can see where water had came in through the ceiling at one time. Another thing that makes me wonder about the roof on the concession stand is that the soffits (?) around the outside of the building is looking rough as if they were effected by water leakage. The facia boards were looking loose. I couldn't see on top of the roof so I can't determine exactly how bad it is. The only item of real worth inside the concession stand is the popcorn machine. They had a two door cooler but it didn't work.
The screen looked good structurally but it does need paint. The owners were very courteous and very helpful and I believe were very truthful with our questions.
Here are some pictures, check them out and let me know what you think.
As I had mentioned before, I am optimistic about this place but then again I do not believe it is a turnkey operation. Drive-in photo album
Posted by James Westbrook (Member # 3690) on 01-26-2010, 11:18 AM:
Those look like Brenkert heads. Are parts still available for those?
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 01-26-2010, 11:41 AM:
Looks like typical wear & tear you'd see at many old drive-ins. Nothing too major. Elbow grease will fix much of it. The roof may need some work, but that's par for the course at a seasonal drive-in.
The projectors are Motiographs. I see the sound heads in use all the time. They're real workhorses. The projectors, if in decent shape, are very gentle on film and put out a steady picture. The main complaint I hear about them is they're light hogs. You'd get better light on your screen, AND find parts easily if you got yourself a used projector head... like a Century or the like. Still, it's not a dealbreaker as it is. Hopefully, the machinery will be in decent enough shape, once you get the chance to fire it up. If you do take the theatre, find a nearby tech to give you some tips on operation, care & maintenance.
The fuse box says a lot about how old the theatre is. 'nuff said there.
The screen looks in decent shape. I don't care for the facing metal. I have it here & you can see those ridges on bright scenes. I've seen much worse though... what's there isn't too bad.
You can make your own decision on whether to fix the speaker system. Most of us have just shut them down, because the FM is so much better.
Offhand, I'd say you've got work ahead of you, but there's enough there to get a good start on things. With luck, you can keep the mechanical stuff going long enough to take care of the cosmetic conditions.
Posted by Robert E. Allen (Member # 1351) on 01-26-2010, 12:34 PM:
Yes, Jack is correct . They are Motiograph heads IMO the best machine ever made. Parts will be hard to come by but not impossible. Most every theatre supply house has a few sitting around and there are still some in use.
Posted by Dennis Benjamin (Member # 1137) on 01-26-2010, 12:51 PM:
quote: Steve Greeno
It has been 20 years since I have been in the business (my last movie was "Ghost") but I still have it in my blood and a real desire to do it again. I have a full time job so I don't have to worry about making a living off of it.
Man, has it been that long? I remember the week that "Ghost" came out. I am feeling really old right now. As a matter of fact, when I watched the football game on Sunday, Brett Favre looked pretty damn old, he's 40 and I'm 38. Yeah, I'm old...Anyways....
Steve - I wish you luck with your Drive-In. I tried to get into that business a few years back. The property values had sky-rocketed because most of the old Drive-Ins were on major highways. One property I looked at (Shore Drive-In in Ocean City, Maryland) sold for 6 million dollars. The others all sold for outrageous amounts too.
Posted by Timothy Eiler (Member # 383) on 01-26-2010, 03:28 PM:
If is does not have city water and sewer. Find out if you will be needing to do any kind upgrade the well or septic. This can get expensive
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-26-2010, 03:48 PM:
I wouldn't worry about the speakers either. Nice thought, but not necessary at all. You'd do better with FM transmission anyway. The posts should stay though as a guide to pack the lot.
That would have been a pretty cool tour to have been on.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-26-2010, 05:33 PM:
Cinematour photos from 2002
I'm guessing the current owners came in after this. It looks great in these pics.
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 01-26-2010, 09:11 PM:
Thanks for your replies, I appreciate your thoughts.
I am glad you are looking at it as the glass half full. I want to very much do this but everyone else around me is telling me not to. At least not at the price they are asking.
I think I will set on it a few weeks and see who else looks at it. If it sells then fine, if not it may make the situation better for me as it gets closer to spring. I do have a newer pair of 35mm Simplex's that are in storage and would work well in this booth.
John, you are correct on the photos. These were taken before the current owners purchased it in 2003. They are still getting the business which is a good sign. How long that will last, I do not know.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 01-26-2010, 09:13 PM:
$150k? Man, if that was near me I'd jump at it. Those pics from 2002 show how it can look again. Very nice.
For years in one of our southern suburbs a man ran an independent DI much like the one you have there. The Cafe was in a garage and he ran from a concrete booth with Kalee machines, 2K spools and president arcs. Big screen.
Now, if THAT was still around I'd jump at it. Doubt it would be anything near $150k though...more like $6 million+ . ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
There are houses there now in its place. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 02-16-2010, 03:35 PM:
Any news?
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 02-19-2010, 08:12 AM:
I had spoken with the Realtor about my thoughts on the drive-in and told him that I do not believe this is a turnkey operation. The place is going to take some money and elbow grease to get going. He told me that was the same concerns everyone else had that had looked at the property. I told him that I am still interested but not at the price they are wanting. They don't even know if they will be able to open the place in the spring if it doesn't sell. So, I asked the Realtor to get with the owners to see if they will reconsider their price. I figured I would wait it out a while and as it gets closer to spring, maybe they will be more willing to drop the price down some.
The Realtor had left for Arizona for two weeks and plans on being back in the office on Feb. 22nd. He will then contact them and then get back with me.
Just waiting at this point right now. I will get back on here with an update once he gets back.
Posted by Jonathan M. Crist (Member # 413) on 02-19-2010, 09:00 AM:
Why do you need to wait for the realator? Why not contact the Seller directly and negotiate directly with them?
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 02-19-2010, 07:34 PM:
I just rather let the Realtor handle everything. He's getting paid for it. Plus, I am not in a big hurry. If someone else comes along and buys it, so be it. However, if no one is biting then I may be in a better position to negotiate. I have found in the past that if I get anxious about something, I usually burn myself.
quote: Dennis Benjamin
Steve - I wish you luck with your Drive-In. I tried to get into that business a few years back. The property values had sky-rocketed because most of the old Drive-Ins were on major highways. One property I looked at (Shore Drive-In in Ocean City, Maryland) sold for 6 million dollars. The others all sold for outrageous amounts too.
I think this is one reason why this drive-in had survived. It is located in a very small town in between two bigger towns. There isn't any type of development happening anytime soon where it is located. However, the two bigger towns, which one is to the north and the other to the south, both had their own drive-in at one time. Both have since been long gone.
Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 02-24-2010, 12:32 AM:
Steve,
Ours re-opened 8 years ago. It was a lot of hard work as it was far from turn-key. Screens were built, snack bar and ticket box refurbed, fencing done, new ramps and asphalt after struggling on with gravel, etc, etc.
It expanded to three screens a year later and the business has solidly improved over that time (without raising our adult ticket price since 2002).
There are many ingredients required to run a successful drive-in in 2010. If you have always wanted to do it, then go for it. I did not want to get to retirement age and think I should have done it.
We are in a city of almost 4 million people however with no other drive-ins for more than around 40 minutes in any direction. I should also point out that we operate all year, 7 days per week. We were surrounded by 4 multi-plexes, but 2 have since closed.
When I think back 20 years ago, there was so much more opportunity to get into one, it is even tougher now.
Good luck.
David
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 03-30-2010, 09:41 PM:
Well it looks like the Drive-In deal is a no go. I spoke with the Realtor today and he said the owners were going to try and open it up in a few weeks. It didn't sound too promising when he said "try". Nobody else was jumping on the opportunity to buy it and I guess they weren't willing to drop the price.
I actually can't see how this place will stand another season without any improvements but we will just wait and see what happens.
This may work out even better yet.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 03-30-2010, 10:07 PM:
That's too bad (for now) Steve. I was sure when I saw you'd posted I'd click on it and say it was yours.
Still...as you say , they will 'try' and run it. You may need to step in and rescue them in the end.
Posted by Steve Greeno (Member # 4789) on 03-30-2010, 10:18 PM:
quote:
That's too bad (for now) Steve. I was sure when I saw you'd posted I'd click on it and say it was yours. [Frown]
Still...as you say , they will 'try' and run it. You may need to step in and rescue them in the end.
Thanks John!
I believe if it was meant to be, it will happen. If not, maybe another theater somewhere else someday.
I look at it this way. It has been on the market since December 2009 and nobody is biting at it. They will either have to make it work or give it up.
I will just give my card to the bank that financed it and let them know to give me a call if it ever gets dumped into their lap. Everything I have financed including my home is through this same bank.
Posted by Mike Frese (Member # 4361) on 04-03-2010, 10:14 AM:
4 mos for a commerical property is not very long. There so few potential buyers for commercial property.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-03-2010, 03:55 PM:
quote: Mike Frese
4 mos for a commerical property is not very long
It is if you're the one trying to offload it before the season starts again.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 04-12-2010, 06:26 PM:
If you've never seen this and you are a drive-in lover, it's really quite cool.
Google Maps US Drive-Ins (You need to have Google Earth installed).
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 12-12-2010, 06:41 PM:
Hey Steve
Did they end up selling it?
Posted by David Kilderry (Member # 142) on 12-16-2010, 05:17 AM:
I'm wondering too!
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-02-2011, 07:57 PM:
Still wondering...
Don't know how old this picture is, but it still seems to be there at least according to this...
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-02-2011, 08:38 PM:
Just throwing in my 2˘ about purchasing a drive-in.
I have been operating a drive-in for the past six years and I see two critical issue in deciding whether this is a viable investment.
The first is whether converting to digital is feasible from an equipment and price standpoint. For example, my drive-in has a 450' throw from the projector to the screen. A digital system to cover that throw would be more expensive than the revenue generated in 2-3 seasons. With film (potentially) being on the verge of elimination, any theatre without digital just would not be viable. Even if film doesn't completely go away, it may be very difficult to get prints in a timely fashion.
The second is whether the drive-in can get product on the break. As the windows between DVD and/or Pay-Per-View shrinks, it continues to erode the demand for secondary release venues. Of course individual results will vary. We had a $5 theatre open about 30 miles away from us a few years ago and we saw an immediate decline in interest for the drive-in.
From my perspective, a drive-in just doesn't make financial sense unless you are in a large market. In a rural community there probably isn't a large enough customer base to make it a viable business more than a few years out.
Of course if you're getting the land at a good price, the long term viability of the drive-in business may not really matter.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-02-2011, 09:07 PM:
quote: Justin Hamaker
my drive-in has a 450' throw from the projector to the screen. A digital system to cover that throw would be more expensive
Justin
How big is your screen? The 450' throw doesn't matter too much, it's the size of the sheet it's trying to fill.
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-02-2011, 09:16 PM:
It's about 100' wide; I don't remember the exact dimensions off the top of my head.
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-02-2011, 10:21 PM:
maybe an NEC 2000 w/ a 6k bulb, or a BARCO DP32 with the same wattage of bulb might work ....
Might have to build a small projection building closer to the screen with that throw and screen width for there may not be lenses that size for throw and size of screen.
I bet your prime lens has to be close to 6 inches on the anamorphic attachment and 4.75 for the flat
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-02-2011, 10:52 PM:
You really think the 2000 with a 6K bulb would work? I was under the impression we would have to use the 3200 or possibly stack 2 projectors to get enough light on the screen. We're using a 4K Xenon bulb right now and we sometimes have problems with dark movies (Dark Knight, Harry Potter, etc). This is especially true on the full moon because it shines right on the screen.
Lakeport Auto Movies
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-03-2011, 02:35 AM:
The 2000 isn't designed for that big a picture, I don't think.
Posted by John Wilson (Member # 269) on 08-03-2011, 04:46 AM:
In 2D mode you might get there, but not certainly not what you could potentially get with other options.
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-03-2011, 10:11 AM:
Why of the possibility of an air conditioned and sealed booth building being constructed closer to the screen, if going just single machine, but can easily see a stacked unit being installed in your present booth - but still have to be sealed from dust and air conditioned.
Course, the nice thing with digital is no shutter to cut off 50% of the light illuminated - it's a straight shot all the time, just that your light path is being bent a few times with the angled reflector, prisms and the chip mirrors of a DLP unit.
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-03-2011, 12:46 PM:
The only way I see to properly light up any Drive In Screen is to install 4K digital projection equipment. The extra light afforded by the larger DMD's and say a 6kw lamp should adaquately light a screen surface in decent condition. I may even be brighter than then the current filum installation. I am presently looking at doing a 4K installation for one drive in...
Mark
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-03-2011, 01:51 PM:
Looking at Justin's location via google maps where it might just be feasible to do that projection building in the middle of the yard as long as it, esp. if that's the booth/conc building in back along the tree line.
With the introduction of the 4K DLP chip, this could bring back the interest and business in the Drive-In if pictures can look as good due to the larger chip on the screen.
Plus, wonder if screens were painted with the street paint - paint with a bit of reflective qualities in it .. and you would have a high gain screen to aid in the digital presentations.
-Monte
Posted by Justin Hamaker (Member # 2165) on 08-03-2011, 05:10 PM:
Yes, that is the concession stand/projection booth at the tree line.
This idea of a projection building closer to the screen and a 4K projector is interesting. However, it does circle back to whether cost to do this is justified for a business that may be on it's last legs to begin with. I'm guessing to cost of a 4K digital system and the construction of the building would wind up being more than at least 3-4 year's revenue. In a larger market, with a year round operation, it would probably make sense.
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-03-2011, 05:41 PM:
Yes, true: very tough decision to make - weither to do the converson to want to stay in business and to justfiy the cost, or see what happens down the road...and save the expense of conversion.
EDIT: and sorry, I gave the wrong NEC model number. It'd be the
NC3240S, 4k unit that would handle such light throw and screen size ... and it could go up to a 7kW bulb.
Posted by Jack Ondracek (Member # 1466) on 08-03-2011, 10:26 PM:
Just to add to Justin's observations:
The same economics that affect single screen indoor houses apply to drive-ins. If you're going to run on the break it will be very hard to maintain an audience. Two to three-week minimum runs can be tough when you're trying to keep your client base thinking about you, not to mention the higher percentages you'll be sending the studios.
Right now, even if you have the property available to multiplex AND no community or bureaucratic resistance, you'd be looking at adding screens, landscaping & equipment costs to digital conversion and the investment in the property itself.
Seems to me you'd have to have a pretty impressive operation out of the box to make something like that work.
On the other hand... if you live in the same town... maybe even on the drive-in property, have another job (or better, are retired) and are looking for something to keep you off the couch, something like this on a subrun level can still work.
Still... there's the digital stuff...
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-04-2011, 02:42 AM:
..basically - eventually getting between a rock and a hard spot .. what to do ...
(sorry, I was thinking that most drive-ins were sub-run based, not first run based to where I understand now of the comparison between the venues of a drive-in and a single screen after the above explanations..Hollywood is turning this digital stuff unto an unfair situation for some..)
-Monte
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-08-2011, 09:06 AM:
I guess it all depends on the debt load of the drive-in vs. the existing and expected grosses on whether digital conversion is an economically viable option.
We celebrate our 8 year anniversary at our drive-in on the 27th of this month. During those 8 years, we've watched our numbers steadily increase every single year, of course the biggest jump was when we added our second screen. There are several smaller single screen drive-ins within an hour's drive of our place, and I really don't see how they could pay for digital conversion given what they bring in in grosses.
Realistically - from a financial standpoint, digital conversion isn't that big of deal for a single screen drive-in. Going rate right now is around $75k-$85k per screen, which breaks down to a little over $1,000 a month financed over 7-10 years, and that's not taking into account any VPF's if your a CBG member. How is that not do-able?
We're looking to convert within the next 12-14 months, but not even considering 3D. Foremost on our minds right now is whether or not to move forward with our building expansion project that was planned for this fall and winter? We've got about a $170k expansion planned for our existing concessions/projection building (bigger restrooms, bigger kitchen, more efficient serving lines, loading docks, walk-in freezers, etc.) and the bank has already said they'd be willing to do it. I mentioned digital projection to my local banker, and they wouldn't touch that with a 10 foot pole. I just don't want to get into a financial shape where I have a really really nice concessions/ projection building - but not have any way to get the movies to the screen. Doesn't really matter how nice your building is if you don't have movies to show... ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 08-08-2011, 10:38 AM:
I'm surprised your banker balked at digital conversion, considering you would be out of business eventually if you didn't convert. Is he unfamiliar with that fact? Maybe you could print-out some of the posts from conversion-related threads to help convince him that it's a necessary move.
I think you're right in not considering 3-D for the drive-in.
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-08-2011, 11:38 AM:
Mike... I think where he was going was that with the physical building, they'd have something tangible to resell if we were to ever default on the loans, as the expanded building increases the value of the property. The projectors (as he explained it) would have no value to the bank if they had to reclaim them in the case of a default.
The hardest part of the digital conversion thing for me as an independent exhibitor is the whole, "it's coming it's coming - but we can't tell you when" thing. It's kind of like the CBG. We were members of the CBG for several years, but dropped them because we could never get definitive answers. CBG was like, "You've gotta join the CBG because of our exclusive digital projection deal - just wait, it's gonna be good", but they'd never tell us what "the deal" was or "how good" it was going to be. I put up with it for 2 or 3 years, and finally said forget it. My drive-in is one of the higher grossing drive-ins in the state, and we're at a good spot financially as 2010 yielded a 21% higher gross than 2009, and so far 2011 is at 15% over 2010.
The economy might suck right now, and people may not be able to afford everything they need, but they always seem to be able to afford the things they want.
I just don't want to borrow $175k to expand the building, then find out a year and a half later that our debt to income ratio is out of line for financing digital projection.
The only definitive thing I've seen as far as the elimination of 35mm prints was a letter penned by Chuck Viane from Disney as he announced his retirement, and today's article from Deadline Hollywood where Fox International will no longer be distributing 35mm prints to Hong Kong after December 31st of this year.
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-08-2011, 08:15 PM:
"Lease that which depreciates; buy that which appreciates." I think your bank knows something.
If I were going digital, I would expect a zero value in 5 years. Louis
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-08-2011, 08:28 PM:
Sorry Louis... Digital has film beat for lumens hands down light level vs. watts used. Especially the new 4K projectors. In a D.I. typically 30 to 40% of the light is wasted. You can't squeeze enough light through a 35mm apreature without at least a chiller on the water jacket and not burn each frame... A high speed intermittent might help.. but they no longer exist as an off the shelf part. I do know of one DP-70 that ran with a 10kw lamp with a chiller on the cooling plate. No other projectors have cooling ability that even comes close to that projector though... There is one Digital projector that can take an 8kw lamp and do ~40,000 lumens. And that is just a 2K projector...
In upgrades or new installations for D.I. or cinema film is a dead issue already, especially at the banks.
Mark
Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 08-08-2011, 11:59 PM:
Course, when one leases, isn't that a good reason for a tax write-off due to being a business expense in your P&L books?
Posted by Barry Floyd (Member # 385) on 08-09-2011, 10:34 AM:
The drive-in owner's association has worked out a package for it's members which features Barco’s new Series 2 32B projector. Yeah it's 2K, but looks like we'll drive it with a 6.5k lamp. For 60 foot wide screens like my place has, it ought to be pretty good. Anything will beat my Brenkert BX-60 I have on screen 2!
Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 08-09-2011, 01:04 PM:
Mark: my comments above were purely financial. Louis
Posted by Mark Gulbrandsen (Member # 72) on 08-09-2011, 06:46 PM:
You should talk to a local credit union instead. Many of them are more about taking care of the member and not thinking so much about how they can screw you.
Mark
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