Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Hey, Regal... the "FEATURE PRESENTATION" should be the FEATURE!

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-27-2011, 08:47 AM:

The first time I saw this I thought it was just another CineMedia screw up. I've seen so many, I come to expect them every now and then. But I've seen it enough now to realize that it's actually supposed to be playing this way.

After the 30 minutes of pre-show crap that is "First Look", we have the newly revamped Regal Roller-Coaster "Feature Presentation" snipe. Which is cool. I always kind of liked it's campy-ness. I especially like the ghostly blue film strip we're riding on now. Is that supposed to be a subliminal suggestion that film is "dead"? I don't know, but it looks cool.

But then right after that snipe, which ends with the words "FEATURE PRESENTATION" on the screen, you're greeted with two more COMMERCIALS. And THEN, you have a line up of 6 or 7 TRAILERS. Then, finally, the feature starts about 15 minutes after the snipe that announced it.

Regal, I understand you may be a little confused on this. But this is NOT an effective line up. In fact it makes you look incompetent. You should probably either change that snipe to say "Your feature presentation will begin after the following previews" which is what you used to say, or print the feature presentation snipe on film so it can be put in the proper place in the line up, or ditch the roller coaster all together. That would be a shame though, because I actually think it's kind of cool.

Posted by Kenneth Wuepper (Member # 1174) on 02-27-2011, 10:41 AM:

Mark,

You are not seeing the big picture here.

It is very common to put "teasers" everywhere. The media start to tell you a bit of news and then they say "coming up in the next segment", or just "coming up". The hope is that you will stay tuned.

Perhaps marketing has decided that you will pay more attention to the things following the "feature presentation" announcement as you think each change might actually BE the feature you paid to see.

KEN

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-27-2011, 11:37 AM:

Mark, you exist to be advertised to. Go out and buy whatever is being promoted or advertised. Just because you paid to gain entry to the auditorium, you think you are good enough to avoid advertising? Do you expect to be treated as well as a patron of Warren Theaters or something?

The "feature presentation" thingy is supposed to be shown right at the advertised start time. Then more commercials for crap you don't care about. Then waaaaay too many trailers because if you don't see them in the theater, how else are you going to see them? It's not like they advertise movies on TV or show trailers on the internet, silly.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-27-2011, 11:43 AM:

Well, it's Regal who's not seeing the BIG PICTURE when they pull crap like that, be it coming from total incompetence and the presentation savvy of a doorknob, or worse, it's some calculated manipulation to make audiences pay more attention to the gack that they didn't come to see, either way the big picture which THEY don't see is that they are driving their patrons right into the arms of their biggest competitor -- the Home Theatre and just reenforcing that growing montra" "I HATE going to the movies."

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 02-27-2011, 12:53 PM:

I would bet Regal put their policy trailer on the video preshow to eliminate the constant $$$ of striking new prints as they get worn. During that decision, I'm sure nobody sat in the conference room and actually viewed the trailer. I'll bet it was an "oops, that doesn't make much sense now" afterthought, but at that point the decision was already made and nobody wants to be "that guy" who fights it with the decision-making money men.

Any other guesses? So far that's all this thread is since none of us are Regal officials.

FWIW, I still have a couple of theaters running their policy off of blu-ray. We automated into their 35mm shows post-trailers/pre-feature to do a changeover to blu-ray, then back to film.

Posted by Claude S. Ayakawa (Member # 1401) on 02-27-2011, 01:05 PM:

Mark, I agree with you about the excessive trailers and advertisements at Regal theatres. It is not too bad if I had not seen some of the trailers before but to have to watch them more than once is very agonizing. Three or four trailers are fine but to have to sit and watch six or more is very excessive.

Regal is very good about their film and digital presentation in my area with state of the art Sony 4K and Real D but they should invest a little bit more money for the video projectors they use for the First Look intermission program. The image quality is terrible.

-Claude

Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 02-27-2011, 01:37 PM:

I think a maximum of 4 trailers (this includes the "attached") is plenty.

Posted by Sam Graham (Member # 2889) on 02-27-2011, 02:12 PM:

quote: Brad Miller
Any other guesses? So far that's all this thread is since none of us are Regal officials.

In the Regal board room...

"It's only temporary since we'll be all digital eventually anyway. Then we can place it correctly. Besides...Nobody'll notice except those picky Film-Tech bastards."

"Who?"

"Say, has anybody tried using Fillmguard as a sexual lubricant?"

"What???"

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 02-27-2011, 02:59 PM:

Wackiness ensues.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 02-27-2011, 03:50 PM:

quote: Mark J. Marshall
Your feature presentation

I hate the use of the word "your" all the time. "Enjoy your movie." That is a dumb sentence, unless I'm connected with the movie in some way like starring in it or directing it. Otherwise it is not my movie. I paid to see a show. It should be "Enjoy the show!"

If the theatre is talking to me from the screen, then it should say OUR feature presentation. Not "your" feature presentation.

If Tom Hanks comes to my theatre to see a showing of Forrest Gump, I'll say "Enjoy your movie!" to him. Otherwise, it's "Enjoy the show!"

/rant

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 02-27-2011, 07:55 PM:

and thus it has been said....

quote: Sam Graham
....those picky Film-Tech bastards."

Posted by Richard C. Wolfe (Member # 431) on 03-02-2011, 01:46 PM:

Please excuse me if I’m going a little off topic here. First, allow me to agree with those that state that if FEATURE PRESENTATION goes on the screen , it should be followed by the FEATURE and nothing else.

As we all know, it is the norm for distributors to place a trailer for their next feature in front of their current one. Even that should never be shown after the Feature Presentation snipe. Either splice the FP snipe between them or don’t show those trailers at all. I as a 2nd run theatre never show those trailers. That would be rather stupid to do as I often will never be playing that feature. It just confuses the patrons who then think that you will be playing it.

However, my main question here has to do with show makeup, trailer placement etc. with digital projection. Since I’m still using that antiquated, old fashioned, inadequate 35mm film, and am now pondering investing in and installing that new fangled filmless projection system called digital, I am wondering how it affects show makeup?

Running a historic single screen theater, I try very hard to continue my presentation in the traditional way it was always done “back in the day” when all theatres were single screen. I still use daters… such things as: Prevues of Coming Attractions, Our Next Attraction, Starts Friday etc., etc. I also show only one trailer, the next attraction, and no screen advertising of any sort. My question to those of you now well versed in the art of digital projection is: Can you get those daters in digital, and is it easy to place them wherever you want them to be, and mostly… if the feature comes with a trailer attached to the front, can you remove them so you don’t look stupid running a trailer after the Feature Presentation?

Last June I posted a question about whether I should at this time invest in digital projection or new seats. Most of you agreed with me that since I am a 2nd run theatre, new seating would benefit my theatre more than digital projection. I have since completed that project that included repainting the interior, refinishing the auditorium floor, replacing all the carpeting and installing 450 new Erwin seats. The following are links to pictures so you can see how it all turned out.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59347695@N03/5432418537/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59347695@N03/5432368251/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59347695@N03/5432377905/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59347695@N03/5432388505/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/59347695@N03/5433007506/

Now I’m seriously preparing for the digital conversion, but I want to be sure that I can continue to program my preshow as I have always done. If I can’t, I will stick with 35mm for a while longer and hope that the changes come to allow me to do that.

Posted by Scott Norwood (Member # 30) on 03-02-2011, 01:50 PM:

Richard--I can't answer your question directly, but is there any reason why you couldn't run your trailer program on film and then do a changeover (perhaps automated) to [dlp]

for the feature?

(I really need to make the trip out to visit your theatre someday. The auditorium and procenium remind me a bit of the Zeiterion in New Bedford, MA.)

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-02-2011, 02:47 PM:

Richard - you can still control your trailers and play any you want to in any order. The feature film is always completely separate from the "attached" trailer so you can play that trailer or not, it's your choice.

In fact, trailers are one of the best things about digital. I'm constantly tweaking our trailer mix depending on how busy we are, how many kids are in the crowd, etc. You get at least two hard drives full of trailers every week and you'll never be wanting for a trailer again. In fact, if anything there are too many trailers.

As for daters -- there is a company, Cinetize.com, that provides a pretty nice selection for free (or customizable for a reasonable fee). You can view all their samples from their website. The daters are nice, but I wish they were a little flashier in the sound department.

I keep hoping some of the "classic" companies like Filmack or Cinema Concepts might issue some of their daters digitally but it hasn't happened yet.

I do miss the Dolby "Train" trailer which we used to place ahead of the feature and continue to hope it'll come out on digital but it hasn't yet. Right now, I'm using the Technicolor Digital Cinema logo just ahead of the feature --it has good sound and really shows off the colors and brightness of the picture. If you don't want to do that, Cinetize has several "Feature presentation" logo clips. (Also free.)

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 03-02-2011, 07:09 PM:

Mike, do you need a "Dolby Digital Cinema" snipe? That would be a lot better than running the TDC logo.

Richard, WOW! What a beautiful restoration! (Please do upload those photos to the forum though, as off-site links don't work after awhile.)

Digital is so easy to change trailers around it is laughable. Everything you want to do is effortless in digital cinema.

Posted by Monte L Fullmer (Member # 2797) on 03-02-2011, 09:30 PM:

quote: Claude S. Ayakawa
The image quality is terrible.

Those projectors uses two bulbs in them and usually one (or both) has either gone dim or one bulb is out.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-03-2011, 12:16 AM:

quote: Brad Miller
Mike, do you need a "Dolby Digital Cinema" snipe?

Brad - Yes, that would be great.

Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 03-03-2011, 01:17 AM:

quote: Richard C. Wolfe
...repainting the interior, refinishing the auditorium floor, replacing all the carpeting and installing 450 new Erwin seats.

That is one gorgeous theatre, Richard. Congrats!

Andrés

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-03-2011, 02:13 AM:

I agree, it looks spectacular. Richard you need to send those photos in for the "warehouse" with some booth pics too.

I would love to see that theatre someday if I ever get to that part of the country!

Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 03-03-2011, 06:27 AM:

And he hasn't even shown his fancy marquee in those pictures either.

Posted by John T. Hendrickson, Jr (Member # 849) on 03-03-2011, 08:48 AM:

Second that, Richard. What a beautiful job. Great photos!

Mike is correct in that you can get all kinds of snipes on digital. We have the old "Let's All Go To The Lobby" snipe. We like to open up with it on all our kid shows in our digital houses. We got it from Filmack.

Very easy to drop in all sorts of trailers and snipes with digital.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-03-2011, 10:42 AM:

John - you got that from Filmack? I'll have to get hold of them...last I checked, their website didn't say anything about their stuff being available digitally. I would love to run some of that old stuff.

Posted by Scott Jentsch (Member # 1681) on 03-03-2011, 11:48 AM:

Richard,

You have an amazing project there! Kudos to you and the team that worked on that project! I'll be PM'ing you for permission to post your photos in our Photo Gallery for your theater, with your permission, of course...

Digital Cinema certainly sounds like a tweaker's dream. The ability to fine-tune even the pre-show for the audience is a great thing and demonstrates how showmanship can be assisted and not harmed by new technology.

Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 03-04-2011, 02:07 AM:

quote:
I hate the use of the word "your" all the time. "Enjoy your movie." That is a dumb sentence, unless I'm connected with the movie in some way like starring in it or directing it. Otherwise it is not my movie. I paid to see a show. It should be "Enjoy the show!"

Off-topic, but related to this is a pet peeve of mine...

One of my best friends likes to say "I own it" when he talks about a movie that's in his DVD collection, and I always feel compelled to remind him: "You own a copy."

quote:
Richard--I can't answer your question directly, but is there any reason why you couldn't run your trailer program on film and then do a changeover (perhaps automated) to the feature?

I sometimes run digital trailers and then "changeover" to film, so I don't see why it can't go the other way 'round.

I'm shocked that Cinema Concepts hasn't offered DCP's of their trailers. They're digital to begin with!

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 03-04-2011, 11:39 AM:

And they are so good. We used their "Christmas Lights" one every single Christmas here for at least 20 years (the same print!). This was the first year we didn't have it and people actually asked about it.

I sent them an email about their old trailers but didn't get an answer. If anyone has any contact with them, put a bug in their ear willya?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on 04-29-2011, 10:13 PM:

Those are beautiful pictures Richard, but please don't link off-site. On the "edit" is a text link that reads "click here to upload an image" and you can upload them to this site. Otherwise the archives will be destroyed for future viewers.

When you get the booth finished, please submit a formal theater tour to the warehouse. There aren't too many theaters like yours around and over time as the forum continues to grow they will get lost here in a Regal thread.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-29-2011, 11:01 PM:

quote: Mike Blakesley
The feature film is always completely separate from the "attached" trailer so you can play that trailer or not, it's your choice.

To a point. I just finished playing Rio and to my surprise it had Scrat's Continental Crackup short on the front of the feature. Conveniently not mentioned on the sheet that came in the box with the hard drive, either.

Not that it mattered; it's not a trailer -- it's a cute short and really looks cool in 3D, but I was surprised that it was just included with the Rio 3D file and not as a separate file.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-30-2011, 01:29 PM:

We never moved an attached cartoon or other attached short in front of the "FEATURE PRESENTATION" - only attached trailers.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-30-2011, 02:01 PM:

I didn't actually have any "feature presentation" and "coming attractions" trailers until I got this digital setup, so it was irrelevant until now. The tech who installed this told me about Cinetize so I immediately went there and started downloading.

I like the Cinetize stuff; their cell phone announcements really work! Every night I see all kinds of folks dragging their cell phones out of their pockets and switching them off when that announcement plays. (Funny, they walked right past a sign that says the same thing when they entered the auditorium but I guess they need to see it on the screen before it registers.) I have to spend less time stomping on folks texting in the auditorium now so there's a definite payoff from a few seconds of screen time.

I was just surprised to find an un-mentioned short on Rio. A lot of people use "Feature Presentation" announcements (including me, now) and when they don't tell you a short is present you could end up with an inaccurate announcement unless you discover it on your own. Of course, you can/should just not use a Feature Presentation announcement when a short is included, but you don't know that in advance without a note. They already give you a paper in the box with the rest of the write-up on it.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-30-2011, 05:30 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
Of course, you can/should just not use a Feature Presentation announcement when a short is included

I disagree with that.

Posted by Frank Cox (Member # 6258) on 04-30-2011, 05:58 PM:

Why would you disagree with that? If I see "Feature Presentation" I expect the next thing on-screen to be the feature presentation. And a short isn't the feature.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-30-2011, 06:38 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
Why would you disagree with that? If I see "Feature Presentation" I expect the next thing on-screen to be the feature presentation. And a short isn't the feature.

Not to speak for him, but I disagree with it because the short is part of the feature. In fact, if these shorts weren't part of the feature, then the studios wouldn't send out notices saying that they'll eat your children if you separate the short from the rest of the reel.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-30-2011, 07:45 PM:

I was informed about the short by our booker so I wasn't surprised by it, but I was peeved that it was the exact same short that was included with "Gulliver's Travels."

Of course...nobody saw "Gulliver's Travels."

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 04-30-2011, 08:32 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
Funny, they walked right past a sign that says the same thing when they entered the auditorium but I guess they need to see it on the screen before it registers.

At an old job, every time we had a meeting of the managers and supervisors, the following conversation occurred:

One female supervisor: We need to put up more signs that say [x].
Head manager: People don't read signs.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-30-2011, 10:46 PM:

quote: Frank Cox
Why would you disagree with that? If I see "Feature Presentation" I expect the next thing on-screen to be the feature presentation. And a short isn't the feature.

I disagree with it because the studios consider the short to be part of the feature. I'm not sure how old you are, but I remember when shorts and cartoons were advertised as part of the feature. Old posters of Honey I Shrunk The Kids had Roger Rabbit ads on them for example. Even the trailers had both. The studios haven't continued that practice religiously, but their thought process is the same, evidenced by, as Chris pointed out, the documentation they send with their films.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-01-2011, 05:38 PM:

But Mark, I AM old enough and I can tell you, even in a small town in Texas, we used to run the cartoons and attraction reel and the "Select Short Subject" which was always included if we were running a film under 100 minutes, and we would not only place the Feature Presentation snipe BETWEEN the short and the feature, but we would have a curtain close/open cue between the short and the snipe. There likewise was a curtain cue (along with a curtain warmer cue as well) between the attractions reel and the feature, preceded of course by the Feature Presentation snipe. In the big markets like NYC where I grew up, this presentation rubric was followed pretty religiously, until curtains disappeared with the advent of cheap multiplexes.

So, you just have to be REALLY old to see that historically, short subjects were regarded as additions to the feature, not part of it. The most of the studios had a separate cartoon and shorts production division that supplied the shorts either separately -- the theatre could book shorts on their own if they wanted to in addition to the features -- or the studio would supply shorts with the feature, but they were always separate entities.

So I diagree that the studios mindset was that the short be treated the same as the feature or refered to in the presentation as the "Feature Presentation" simply because the studio supplied it, not to mention that it simply is not what the words mean.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-01-2011, 06:08 PM:

Frank,
So in other words: Today isn't many years ago.

Today, the studios treat shorts included as being part of the feature and tell you absolutely not to have them separated.

Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-01-2011, 07:22 PM:

That was a different time, Frank. Now you're in the time of mandatory everything. If you're booking a short separately to go in front of the feature you booked, then ok. But if the studio is sending you a feature, and reel 1 of that movie is a cartoon, or if it's 1A and 1B, or if there's a note in the can that says that the short and the feature are to be treated as one inseparable entity, then the short is part of the feature and the FEATURE PRESENTATION goes first.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-02-2011, 01:59 PM:

Well, I book classics so I can't say with any authority, but do the studios specifically say you CAN'T put a snipe between the short and the feature? What about sound format logos? What about the chain's logo stuff? I know you are required to PLAY everything that's attached, but would they seriously whine if you put in your logo and Feature Presentation snipes where it makes sense?

When I play sneak previews that come with trailers attached, I always put them at the very end of the Attraction Reel (what you guys call the trailer pack) -- curtain cue in between as well. The feature opens with the house custom Feature Presentaion snipe. Surely the distrib wouldn't object at that, i.e., making his product play better and more logically on the screen. Or would he?

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-02-2011, 02:02 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
do the studios specifically say you CAN'T put a snipe between the short and the feature?

Yes they do. They say the short+feature is to be treated as one print, exhibited as one print and not to be cut. (Well at least Disney uses that language.)

They DO say you are allowed to cut off the attached trailer and put in your sound logo or company snipe, etc. in there.

Posted by Elizabeth Betty Gross (Member # 2532) on 05-02-2011, 03:09 PM:

What a glorious restoration!! PLEASE, please don't go digital!!You have already gone so far to bring back original quality to your theater, it would be a terrible shame to settle for less than the best. If you don't have them already, find a few "old-timers" for your booth who remember quality presentation (not just the "commercially acceptable" of the multiplexes) and you'll be good to go!

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-03-2011, 10:55 AM:

Ah, yes; crazy Disney. So you can put your Feature Presentation snip in front of the feature for all the other studios. I'll take that.