This is topic The presentations in Walt Disney World - slipping a bit? in forum Ground Level at Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE.


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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-10-2011, 01:56 AM:
 
I had the opportunity to hit some attractions at WDW this past week, and I have to say that I was disappointed in some of the "film" presentations there - for the very first time. "Film" is in quotes because I imagine these are probably all digital.

Muppet Vision was my first disappointment. The bass seemed to be really cranked DOWN in this attraction for some reason. I remember there being a few instances of some real booms in that show like when Beaker was trying to start the machine or when the place explodes at the end. Those booms weren't there. Also it sounded like the left channel was a bit off in the EQ dept. Statler & Waldorf's voices were not as loud as they should have been either, which took away from some of their jokes. Also some of the panels on the walls which normally show as being destroyed at the end were not doing so. Some were, but not all of them.

Very strange. I don't remember there ever being ANY presentation problems with that show, and this one had a ton.

At Mickey's Philharmagic, the center projectors were WAY out of focus. Undeniably out of focus. So out of focus that you couldn't see the facial expressions on the characters. What the hell is up with that? Does no one watch these movies when they run? I was there at about 10 PM. I mean - it ran like that all day, and no one noticed? What the hell? Otherwise that show was amazing. I have never seen it before, but other than being blurry as hell, it was really impressive.

The movie at the end of The Great Movie Ride - How can that be film? With so many new movies in it, I thought for sure it would have been digital. But I could have swore I saw some shutter ghosting on the copyright tag at the end of the clips. Maybe I was seeing things there. I don't know.

Soarin! Holy crap that was GREAT! Is that true 15/70 on a dome? I could see the moving glass in front of the projector that is typical of IMAX projectors. That's another great ride!
 

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Posted by Jake Spell (Member # 5294) on 04-10-2011, 02:57 AM:
 
Sorin is possibly my favorite ride there, simply amazing!!

Also, the universe of energy does have film based projection or it did when I was there last time about 2 years ago. Its pretty cool since its running across multiple screens, like Cinerama but with a scope picture on 3 screens
 

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Posted by Joe Redifer (Member # 3) on 04-10-2011, 03:08 AM:
 
Did you perhaps mention any of this to park officials (rangers)? Where would you even complain about the likes of this?
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-10-2011, 10:45 AM:
 
All of the attractions you listed are FILM attractions. The end montage of the so-so Movie Ride, I believe, is video.

Sorin is not only 15/70 IMAX but it is 48fps too (IMAX HD).

-Steve
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-10-2011, 11:13 AM:
 
Joe, yes I did mention it to some cast members on my way out of Mickey's Philharmagic. They thanked me and said they would take care of it. I still find it strange that no one was in the theater to watch the presentation all day. I didn't say anything at Muppet Vision but I probably should have. I wasn't sure if Muppet Vision had been converted to digital. The presentation of the picture seemed fine, it was mostly sound and other interactive stuff in the theater that suffered.

Steve, I looked up some tech specs on Soarin' last night after I posted and saw that it is indeed not only 15/70, and shot with the OMNIMAX lens (so the perspectives all look right on the dome) but also 48 fps. Wow! Very impressive show!
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-10-2011, 04:04 PM:
 
Muppetvision is dual 70mm 5-perf and I believe at 30fps.

Note, all of the Disney sound is interlocked digital...not composite on the print. Exceptions are going to be things like pre-shows in the So-So Movie Ride.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-10-2011, 04:40 PM:
 
Cool. I knew that was what it was, but thought I heard about plans to change it to digital a few years ago.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-10-2011, 05:58 PM:
 
There is less of a digital conversion that you would think...remember too Kodak is a major sponsor of the film based attractions.

New attractions are going to be digital and even I can make a good argument for using digital in theme park attractions where the same images are going to be shown over and over. However, 70mm does set the bar VERY high and they don't suffer the horrible printing processes that release prints have to go through. However, film's forte is not blemish free for 1000s of runs (not that it can't be done...just that digital can do it much easier).

-Steve
 

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Posted by Jake Spell (Member # 5294) on 04-11-2011, 12:25 AM:
 
I wonder how hard it would be to get a tour of their projection rooms...
 

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Posted by Andres Briano (Member # 4621) on 04-11-2011, 10:42 AM:
 
Funny you should say that...!

I have returned to WDW last month after 20 years, and I agree that some presentations were dissapointing. In particular, Universe of Energy had some very bad bulb flicker on one of the three screens.


 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-11-2011, 11:00 AM:
 
Mark, did you see The Hall of Presidents? That one is vastly improved. (The biggest problem there is all the morons taking flash pictures from 75 feet away. As usual, people ruin shows.)

P.S. Shouldn't this thread be in Film Yak?
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 04-11-2011, 11:44 AM:
 
I did not do the hall of presidents this time. I haven't been to WDW in 10 years so if it has been upgraded since then, I missed it this time. I'm heading back in September though, and that is my wife's favorite attraction so I'm sure we'll do it then.
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-11-2011, 12:37 PM:
 
Well it's actually been changed twice in the past 10 years -- first to add George W Bush, and most recently to add Obama. But the most recent upgrade they changed from film to digital and dramatically improved the sound, too, but they kept the style of the attraction (i.e. the presentation is still done with paintings, not movies).

I remember the old presentation was always sorta dim and blurry, the images on the adjacent screens didn't always line up properly, there would be film damage etc. Not surprising since it runs about 30 times a day by remote control.
 

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Posted by Steve Guttag (Member # 268) on 04-11-2011, 02:16 PM:
 
The Hall of Presidents never made sense to me as a movie attraction...it is a big slide show, with narration. As Mike said, it is now digital now...they also no longer open up to the full 5-panels of the previous show...which was only done for the Civil War sequences.

-Steve
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-11-2011, 05:36 PM:
 
Thanks Steve....I was wondering if I had gone crazy. I thought sure they'd used 5 panels before but they are only using the 3 now.

Agreed that it's a slideshow, but the images are zoomed and panned and such, so it makes sense not to have it just be slides.

I also agree with posters above that Soarin' is amazing. It's my favorite attraction in Epcot.
 

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Posted by Robert LaValley (Member # 4319) on 04-12-2011, 12:43 AM:
 

quote: Mark J. Marshall

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The movie at the end of The Great Movie Ride - How can that be film?

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quote: Sam King

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I have heard rumors that FL has a stronger projectionists union than SoCal and that may be the reason there have really been do digital conversions there.

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Might also have to do with Christie's offices being a mere 20 minutes drive from Disneyland.
 

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Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 04-24-2011, 09:28 PM:
 
I've got plans to visit WDW in a few weeks. I've been using the "Unofficial Guide" with the "touring plans" to plan my trip... but if anyone has any particular advice, I'd love to hear it. I'll have 2 girls (3 & 7).
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-24-2011, 09:47 PM:
 
Well....this time of year you probably don't need the touring plans, unless it happens to be very crowded for some reason. But, right after Easter is not likely to be too bad.

The Unofficial Guide is my favorite WDW book. There's more good stuff in that book than any 3 or 4 other WDW books.

With kids that age, you're going to be spending a lot of time in Fantasyland. A lot of time. Here's a word of advice to save you $300 or so: DO NOT go anywhere near the "Bibbidi Bobbidi Boutique!"

My other advice to you is, if you're staying on-property or nearby, start your days fairly early but plan to go back to the hotel mid-day for a nap or a swim -- anything is OK as long as it's something relaxing. (2 or 3 hours or so.) Then come back to the park for the evening. Your kids will be happier and so will you.

And one more thing: Please don't be one of the F#%$ING IDIOTS who ruin the indoor attractions with their stupid flash photography. (Being a film-techer, I know you will have the good taste to heed this!)
 

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Posted by Manny Knowles (Member # 1171) on 04-24-2011, 11:15 PM:
 
My mom and I went to Disneyland (in California) about a year ago and saw "Honey I Shrunk the Audience" -- underlit and one "eye" had print damage -- very disappointing considering what one expects of a Disney theme park.

I remember not liking the "Hall of Presidents" in Orlando, but I did get to see a revival of "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" (again, at Disneyland) and THAT was cool.

Speaking of disappointing shows at places that used to have high standards -- I went to see "HUBBLE 3D" at the IMAX in Indianapolis and was SHOCKED to see dirt on the print. Even more horrifying was how it lingered on-screen, trapped between the film and (I guess) a glass plate. The poor thing struggled to break free. In the end, the plight of that poor, helpless little piece of lint was more compelling and memorable than the movie (and my date).
 

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Posted by Danny Yancey (Member # 5499) on 05-16-2011, 10:37 AM:
 
I installed the equipment in Muppets 3D and it is a 2 70mm proj with a Rentex lamphouse with 7k lamps. They use full frame with no sound track at 30 fps. using a Disney simplified controller. The projectors at the Studio all use this type of controller, which uses simplex time code to sync at i/100 of a frame. The wall panels are 6kw Pani projectors with two slides 8x8. Searchlights (flash light effect)are Intellabeams,and the waldo effect is 5k pani incandescent rotating artwork disc. What has been done to the show is they did away with the projectionist(when I worked there was only 4). The GMR pre show is a 35mm and has sound on film, it also gets updated but not often, the sound is digital on a chip in recordable sound unit mounted in the projector base. Finale is the last screen on the ride is a 70mm 30 fps with a 7k lamp also full aperture, only pre show has a sound track All sound in every show is processed in one room of the rides. It use to be on 360 cards but has been changed to alcorn Mc Bride systems, Epcot projectors have been changed over to this system and the controllers changed to Simplified controllers from the 4" tape units at central base. They used a NPL controller designed by Disney till 2000. I was a projectionist from 1982 till I retired in 2005 and we belonged to the IBEW electrical union and our contract was a maintenance contract with a special pay scale according to your job title, (area Projectionist)Proj Tech.
They are converting over to digital and doing away with the projectionist by absorbing them into the area electrical departments ( show maintenance).
 

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Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-16-2011, 12:49 PM:
 
Great picture, thanks for posting. I really enjoy the behind-the-scenes stuff from Disney. (We took their steam trains tour...highly recommended.)

I know I'm in the minority but I hate that Muppets show. Have seen it twice -- the first time I hated it, the second time was to make sure I just wasn't in the right mood the first time. I hated it the second time, too. I don't know why; the Muppets just aren't my cup-o-tea, I guess.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 05-16-2011, 01:00 PM:
 
That is a great picture, thank you for posting it! And thank you for the information. Great stuff!


 

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Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-16-2011, 01:44 PM:
 
Danny; I trust you won't get in trouble with the Mouse since you are retired. It used to be top secret in technical areas. Louis
 

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Posted by Joseph L. Kleiman (Member # 3097) on 05-16-2011, 05:31 PM:
 
I've been told by a couple of the IMAX techs that Soarin' is actually an SR projector at 24fps, but have never been able to confirm this. Only 48fps dome projector that IMAX installed was for Race for Atlantis, which was 3D Solido on top of that.

As for MuppetVision, the California Disaster version was switched to digital projection last year.
 

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Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 4784) on 05-17-2011, 10:29 AM:
 
Thanks for the picture, Danny. I went backstage at WDW a few years ago and noticed that endless loop of film system was also used on their motion-based attractions (namely Star Tours and Body Wars). The film was looped at the back of the simulator cabin and ran through a projector that was under it. That was quite impressive to see the whole contraption in use. Body Wars closed in 2007 but Star Tours is now all Digital 3D.
 

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Posted by Geoff Jones (Member # 3668) on 05-29-2011, 08:28 PM:
 
Mark, thank you for complaining about the focus in Micky's Philharmagic - they seem to have listened and it was in focus for me! I saw it 3 times.

I'm a hater of 3D features, but for short theme-park stuff like that, it's a blast.

The only really bad presentation I had was at Ellen's Energy Adventure (Epcot). One of the 4 projectors in the first room was badly mis-colored/ out of sync with the rest. That must have been digital, right? But then later in a different room I vaguely remember some registration/ jitter issues, which I assume was a film issue.

I felt like there was a mix of film and digital throughout the parks, and it all pretty much "worked" for me, for what it's worth.

And Rockin' Roller Coaster is their best ride!
 

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Posted by Danny Yancey (Member # 5499) on 06-01-2011, 07:57 PM:
 
RRcoaster preshow projection is a 70mm running at 60 fps with a rear projection screen. Built by Iwerks, using a Iweks controller running at 30 frames. the projector has a double pin cam in the intermitten and a straight shaft star. framing is done by rotating the sprocket.





 

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Posted by Darryl Spicer (Member # 711) on 06-01-2011, 10:07 PM:
 
Well, I see Balantyne projector and soundhead shells and base.
 

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Posted by Mark J. Marshall (Member # 1409) on 06-01-2011, 10:32 PM:
 

quote: Danny Yancey

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RRcoaster preshow projection is a 70mm running at 60 fps

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quote: Mike Blakesley

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P.S. Shouldn't this thread be in Film Yak?

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