Film-Tech Forum ARCHIVE: Renting theatre out for private screening

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Posted by Celine Negrete (Member # 5531) on 04-28-2011, 11:56 PM:

Ok, so I have definitely done my 'googling', and have researched other theatre's websites (and I know this is such a 'newbie' kind of question), but our theatre has never really been offered as available for rental. Recently, some calls have come in.

What I want to understand, once and for all, is what is 'legal' in regards to renting out the theatre to a private party who wants to screen a dvd for their private event? I had been under the impression that they would still need to pay licensing fees and those fees could run them up to $250....even if there was no admission price, it was not advertised and was a completely private event.

Looking around at theatre websites I don't really see mention of that.

So, what REALLY is the deal? Will folks please enlighten me ;-)

And do any of you make a significant revenue from theatre rentals?

Thanks!

Posted by Martin McCaffery (Member # 37) on 04-29-2011, 08:19 AM:

Yes, you will need to contact the rights holder of the movie, usually the film distributor, not the DVD distributor, and get permission to show the film, which usually cost in the $250 range.

You can do it through a non-theatrical distributor like Swank, but it will usually cost you more. Since you already have a relationship with the theatrical distributor, use it.

Sometimes they want to watch things that don't have theatrical rights (tv shows for instance). These can be a little tougher. PBS things are usually pretty easy to track down, and often free. Old Charlie Brown specials or whatever, can be a bit more work.

So you can either work the cost of the rights into your theatre rental costs, or set the price of the rental and the cost of the film is a add on. The public doesn't get that you can't just go to NetFlix and show what you want, but they don't understand that about regular movies either.

Posted by Chase Pickett (Member # 5975) on 04-29-2011, 11:46 AM:

Most of the larger theater chains roll the price of the rights into the cost of the rental, and subtract it if a rental doesn't require showing a movie. I'd say roll it into the price of the rental, as a flat rate is just easier to deal with.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 04-29-2011, 02:32 PM:

We have 2 ways of doing private shows. If it's a DVD/BluRay, we charge the same as what the studio rate is plus $50.00.

If a private group wants to see whatever we're currently showing, we charge $50 plus a minimum purchase of 15 admissions. If the group has less than 15 people, we give them their leftover tickets which they can then use as passes at any other showing.

We don't do a whole lot of either kind of show. But, since I have a day job I don't really work on promoting that service either.

Posted by Anslem Rayburn (Member # 1267) on 05-01-2011, 12:18 AM:

deleted

Posted by Louis Bornwasser (Member # 3063) on 05-01-2011, 07:51 AM:

Isn't a private show, well. . . private?? If so, then it is NOT a public performance. Louis

Posted by Celine Negrete (Member # 5531) on 05-01-2011, 02:13 PM:

Louis,

The way I read the law is that ANY viewing outside the privacy of a home setting is considered a "public performance". Therefore licensing fees must be paid.

I was mainly interested in knowing what the fees might run for a small, private party renting out a theatre. If they are the usual min. of $250, that makes it seem pretty cost prohibitive for most folks, especially since that is just the licensing fee and doesn't cover the theatre rental cost itself.

But, some theatre websites seem to make no mention of licensing fees and their rental fees don't seem to high enough that they are simply 'adding it in' to the fee.

Posted by Bill Enos (Member # 440) on 05-01-2011, 03:35 PM:

We do LOTS of private screenings. Prices range from couple hundred bucks to a grand or more depending on day of week, time of day and whether it would take out one of our regular show times, plus licensing fees and film or an entire evening for around $2700.00 Monday thru Thursday, Friday and Sunday are higher, no Saturday evening rentals. If you want to serve alcohol you must obtain you own
alcohol permit and control consumption by minors, etc.

Posted by David E. Nedrow (Member # 4981) on 05-02-2011, 07:50 PM:

quote: Celine N
But, some theatre websites seem to make no mention of licensing fees and their rental fees don't seem to high enough that they are simply 'adding it in' to the fee.

A lot of theatres don't bother with the licensing, which is BS.

Two days ago, I had someone trying to convince me to do a series of late-night Godzilla films. These were 35mm prints available from a collector for $100-200@. I explained that it wouldn't be economically feasible, because we also have to license the movie, which would be another $250+. He kept saying, "but no other theatres I've done this at have that problem."

Ugh.

-David

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-03-2011, 05:12 AM:

We do lots of rentals as well. Our rental rate is based on our known operating costs (the house nut) as close to the penny as can be calculated -- everything from turning on the lights, the air conditioning, bringing in the crew, both front of house and tech, even wear and tear and consumables. Once you've that number, then you add whatever profit you think you want to make or think the market will bear. And of course part of your calculations should also take into consideration what your competition is charging for similar rentals. Make inquiries; see what they are charging. Obviously you don't want to price yourself out of the running.

As for the actual film rental -- we NEVER get involved. We are not the exhibitor in these rental situations, only the landlord. Let the renter obtain the film they want and license. Let them go to Swank or Criterion and book the film (DVD usually, although we do run 35mm for them as well if they obtain the print and rights). Just make sure they present a copy of the confirmation from the non-theatrical distributor so you have a record that the screening is properly licensed. You want to keep your theatre clear of any disputes that might arise between the renting group and the studios.

Although we decided on this policy because it's the cleanest way to deal with these rental situations, as others have said, you could decide to include the license fee in your rental rate, but we found that just requires more paperwork, phone calls and haaving to deal with making the contact with the non-theatrical distrib. Then you will also have to adjust the rental rate depending on the licensing fee which is variable depending on the film title (newer titles can go much higher than $250). Besides, if they make the booking, they understand better what costs what. Your rental rate won't be inflated by the license fee which they won't see.

And you are right, Celine, because your doors are closed and you consider it "private," that doesn't change the fact that in no way can a screening in your theatre ever be construed under the DVD licensing terms as a home screening and covered by the explicit home license terms that a DVD confers.

Is it possible for you get away with showing a DVD to a private group without paying a $250 or more fee? Sure. Is it legal or more to the point, is it safe? Not if it can jeopardize your relationship with the studios and risk your entire operation/livelihood to accommodate a rental that might garner $50 profit.

And I will admit, if you a showing a DVD to 15 people, $250 is an exorbitant fee when each of those people could go to Redbox and get the same movie for a buck, but unfortunately it would be easier changing the orbit of the planets than to get the studios amend to their "for home viewing only" policy on DVDs. Is it colossally absurd that they will let Redbox distribute a film for 99 cents (50 cents on special) but insist you pay $250 for the same title when only a handful of people are going to watch it, but as they say, it is what it is.

Posted by Terrence Meiczinger (Member # 5059) on 05-05-2011, 03:50 PM:

quote: Frank Angel

As for the actual film rental -- we NEVER get involved. We are not the exhibitor in these rental situations, only the landlord.

The premise, especially a theater, would be considered vicariously liable in this circumstance. You are in control of the equipment and it is reasonable to assume that the patron would have needed assistance in playing the content.

Posted by Chris Slycord (Member # 4239) on 05-05-2011, 04:13 PM:

You didn't read the rest of the paragraph...

quote: Frank Angel
Just make sure they present a copy of the confirmation from the non-theatrical distributor so you have a record that the screening is properly licensed. You want to keep your theatre clear of any disputes that might arise between the renting group and the studios.

Posted by Terrence Meiczinger (Member # 5059) on 05-05-2011, 04:45 PM:

I did. My point was that you can't just consider yourself the landlord. If a customer presents you with a licensing agreement you need to be sure you can validate it. You can't just take their word for it and assume no liability.

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-06-2011, 12:01 AM:

Well, there are levels of checks and balances here. If we are dealing with a client who 4 walls us regularly and it is an organization who we know, and they hand us a confirmation from Swank that they booked MAMA MIA, I will take that on good faith. I know the org, I know what a Swank confirmation looks like. I copy it and put a copy in the file. Do I call Swank and as the booker who I know by first name and he me? No. There is a certain modicum of good faith here.

If a someone who we have never dealt with before walks in off the street, especially if it is an individual and not an known organization and he wants to rent the space for a screening, would I would treat that a bit differently and would call the distrib to check if he's got a license? I probably would, but long before that, we would be looking at the guy's credentials, get his bank references, and vet him out so we are comfortable that he is legitimate. This is before we even talk about the film and where he's getting it. He signs a contract (which, btw, holds us harmless in just about everything related to his event), he puts down a deposit and he buys insurance. In short he's pretty much well known to us before anything hits the screen.

Posted by Adam Fraser (Member # 1074) on 05-06-2011, 09:06 AM:

We have charged anywhere from $150-800 depending on circumstances. We always book the films ourselves to ensure proper rights to the film.

Flat rate films have become more expensive lately so we usually average $500-700 for school groups. If it is a film we are currently playing, we just charge them normal ticket prices with an agreed minimum price to make sure we cover expenses.

Posted by Jon Petersen (Member # 5016) on 05-06-2011, 04:55 PM:

Rod:"Daddy, are you going to jail?"
Ned:"We'll see, son. We'll see."

Posted by Carl Martin (Member # 1146) on 05-10-2011, 07:05 PM:

quote: Frank Angel
in no way can a screening in your theatre ever be construed under the DVD licensing terms as a home screening and covered by the explicit home license terms that a DVD confers.

aren't minivans made these days with dvd players? are they only for people who live in their minivans?

i assume it would be ok to screen a dvd in an old theater that has a projectionist apartment attached to the booth.

Posted by Mike Blakesley (Member # 26) on 05-11-2011, 12:46 PM:

Yeah Disney really ought to collect $250 every time some mom shows "Tangled" in the minivan for a group of kids. [Wink]

Posted by Frank Angel (Member # 248) on 05-14-2011, 03:14 AM:

If they could figure out how to do it, you bet your butt cheeks they would!

Oh, and haven't you heard, they've been working on a system that uses ultra-high frequency strobing of ultraviolet light that is aimed at patrons leaving the theatre. It synchronizes with the nerve synapses in the frontal lobes and causes the moviegoer to forget all copyrighted Disney material they just saw. In 74% of most subjects, two hours after seeing a Disney copyrighted movie, they won't remember any of it. A Disney spokesmen said the company is pleased with these promising results but feels it needs the system to produce closer to 99% before it is launched. Disney feels it is only fair to protect their intellectual property from being stolen and taken out of the theatre.

In a statement one Disney researcher said under cloak of anonymity, that they are also working on embedding similar high frequency audio pulses in all Disney recordings so people will not be able to hum Disney music after they hear it. This is only in the prototype stages and needs more work because now, although they can block subjects' ability to hum or worse, actually sing Disney copyrighted songs, they still have to work out a very unpleasant side effect, namely, when the person tries to vocalize Disney Phonocopyrighted material, it sets off a turrets syndrome reaction causing the subject to scream things like "DISNEY SUCKS!" [Big Grin]